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Author Topic: First time death  (Read 3519 times)

Nefensis

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First time death
« on: December 18, 2007, 08:31:13 AM »
With the aflux of new players we've had in the past few days, too many times i see them log in and 5 mins later log out because they died and dont know what to do. Our death system is still not very self explanatory for new players or returning old players. Perhaps a one time use death token given at character creation could bring the PC in a special zone where the system would be somewhat forced explained to him -Like messages popping out of no where explaining him- and advices on partying could be given then returned to life. A one time use free raise for new players, a chance given. I recall Styr v.1.0 is still rotting in the governement district, i got frustrated and remade, some leave completely.

Comments?

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Re: First time death
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2007, 10:01:17 AM »
Made a new test character a few days back, logged on and got killed by a monster PC
after 5 minutes sans rp. Now we wonder why people find PotM to be a tough start ...


ThAnswr

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Re: First time death
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2007, 10:09:38 AM »
With the aflux of new players we've had in the past few days, too many times i see them log in and 5 mins later log out because they died and dont know what to do. Our death system is still not very self explanatory for new players or returning old players. Perhaps a one time use death token given at character creation could bring the PC in a special zone where the system would be somewhat forced explained to him -Like messages popping out of no where explaining him- and advices on partying could be given then returned to life. A one time use free raise for new players, a chance given. I recall Styr v.1.0 is still rotting in the governement district, i got frustrated and remade, some leave completely.

Comments?

Great idea, Nef.  The death rules/procedure is ambiguous.  If not a "get out of death free" token, then a better explanation of what to do once you reach the ethereal plane.  Maybe something as simple as a "read me" sign once you fall through the portal would help. 
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Vulpex

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Re: First time death
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2007, 11:09:42 AM »
Carrion Flower mentions very important issue.
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Re: First time death
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2007, 03:00:21 PM »
In my opinion it isn't so hard to understand what one's pc have to do for raising itself
Even if somebody don't understand what he have to do... walking through is the best way for finding the "exit" :D

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Re: First time death
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2007, 05:44:11 PM »
I would be in favor of a Big sign in the new character area, which would explain our death system.

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Re: First time death
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2007, 05:51:04 PM »
Or maybe a 'spirit guide' that'll clue you in to the various aspects of the Death/Respawn system.
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Rex

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Re: First time death
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2007, 10:16:11 PM »
Or maybe a 'spirit guide' that'll clue you in to the various aspects of the Death/Respawn system.

Having handled quite a few tells involving various n00b deaths, hereis what I have discovered.

1. NO ONE, reads the getting started info.  You explain to them what's in their journal and they go...... DOH!
2. The Maze confuses the ADHD crowd.  Many of them think the first shaft of Light, is what they have to go to.
3. They don't read the ghost messages, mostly because they pop up REALLY fast and are frankly easily missed by people that can't multitask.

Possible Solutions.

1. Ditch the Maze.  Ethereal PLANE, even the near ethereal, is basically just a formless grey space.  Make it a gigantic exterior grey area and fill it with mist.
2. Make the "Spirit Beings" wander the area.  Set up Conversation to reflect both options once you chase one down.
3. (saw this on another server) Set up the Basics as a Read before enter game, set up a few questions with multiple choice, that doesn't let them IN GAME unless they can answer them showing they have read said instructions.

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Nefensis

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Re: First time death
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2007, 11:41:03 PM »
Quote
1. NO ONE, reads the getting started info.  You explain to them what's in their journal and they go...... DOH!

Quoted for truth. My idea involves giving them a second chance and more or less forcing them to actually READ the rules and KNOW the system

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tzaeru

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Re: First time death
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2007, 12:22:42 AM »
Truly that hard system to understand? Never had any problems with it.. It all reads in there, in journals and in those fancy message lines you get when at EP.

Tho I'd be all for one-time free rise - not much of a XP loss but if possible, get to keep the armament and money. Quite surprising it can be; First time I died was when, despite all the warnings, thought it'd be cool to go outside during the night. Weres spawned next to Zarlaste and ate him - 30 minutes of waiting for Cornelius (if memory serves) to pop by and rescue. That was fun.  :P

Quote
1. NO ONE, reads the getting started info.  You explain to them what's in their journal and they go...... DOH!

Quoted for truth. My idea involves giving them a second chance and more or less forcing them to actually READ the rules and KNOW the system

Be lies.. <_< I read them(not that they gave any useful information..). But then.. Not the first PW to be on.

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Re: First time death
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2007, 12:28:45 AM »
The point is that people just don't read. Heck, they don't even read manuals in real life, let alone the FAQ, journal and such. I too have gotten tells at one point about things that's in the journal or found someplace. And the shaft of light message is quite lengthy and explicative. I bet the reason people don't read it isn't because it pops up too fast, (never had that problem) but because people just don't read.


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ThAnswr

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Re: First time death
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2007, 12:57:29 AM »
I'm a true believer in the less roadblocks you put in people's way, the better things move along. 

I think a "read-me" sign when someone gets to the ethereal plane would be a good thing.  Some may read it and some may not.  That's each individual's choice.  But, at least it's there.


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engelfire

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Re: First time death
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2007, 01:11:49 AM »
they can only blame themselfs if they dont have few minutes to spare and read whats what really... when you dont read, you better not weep

i never had any trouble myself to understand the death system, its as crystal clear as it could be imo. maybe they are just so used to WoW....

center shaft = respawn
outershafts = port to your body, if you want to get back to near ethereal, walk through thick body of mist. assuming its those mist parts when you walk too close shadows envelope you and you lose consciusnes for moment
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flamedance58

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Re: First time death
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2008, 05:22:02 AM »
engel fire, even if that's true it's our responsibility to give some help cause some people just have learning issues or are just plain stupid.

So any kind of help, even if it's a forced conversation which won't let you stop with some Death Angel that educates you on what to do next will be great.

I personally am in complete favor of Rex's third solution. Have all newbies, or new characters, be put into a mini-OOC room which has a NPC that goes through the rules of the server including stuff like sub-races, monster races, and of course the death system.

Gnobis

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Re: First time death
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2008, 11:01:19 AM »
From a newbie's perspective who has only died twice to date, I've found a few things regarding death that were sorta confusing to me:

1)  First, the ghosts of PC folks who have died running around and talking.  Now, this doesn't hurt me any, but I truly didn't have a clue what was really happening.  The first couple times I saw this, I didn't realize they were PCs.  The first time, I thought it was the DMs having some fun.... the ghosts were trying to get me to poke the DM-ran guard.  Rather humorous, but I still hadn't a clue.  I caught on the second time, when things were said by a ghost that weren't all that ghostly in character.  Honestly, I don't think this needs any fix (as long as folks remain IC as a ghost), but use this as an example of how someone new might not understand what is going on.

2)  When I died and wanted to return as ghost form, for some reason, it didn't "click" that I had step back into the pillar that I was standing right next to.  Yup, that is what the journal says to do...return to the pillar where you came from or something to that effect...but for some reason there is a strong, natural tendancy to begin walking to that middle pillar; I just figured it couldn't be as easy as turning around and walking right back to the pillar behind me.  I had to re-read the journal a couple times to figure it out.  I know my sister had the same source of confusion.  What I might suggest is to get rid of the outlying pillars and just place two pillars in the middle and make it clear that one is for the ghost form and one is for the resurrection.  I personally never found the wandering in the fog maze after death to be all that confusing...in fact, I thought it was a nice "death shroud" flavor.  And I think I'd prefer the existing maze over a single big room.

3)  I wasn't entirely truthful when I stated that I had only died twice.  I started a toon on this server a long-time back, and had died rather quickly by going into the crypt at 2nd level with no blessed weapon.  I went to the center pillar to respawn and it warns you of the detriments of using that type of "ressurection".   Long story short, my first toon here had lost what little gold they had, had lost their weapon and shield, had decreased in stats/abilities, and couldn't rest to fix my stat decrease.  Now, I think I would have tried to overcome my loss of gold and equipment, but I found the stat decreases and inability to rest to be confusing.  And I wasn't entirely certain if the stat decreases were permanent or not after I went to an NPC cleric, but his services didn't remove the stat decreases...the pillar of light did "say" that the penalty would be harsh, so perhaps some special, costly service would be required to remedy the situation.  In the end, I found it easier to give up for the night and I didn't make it back to PotM until recently.  I think the inability to rest thing confused me some with my more recent death, but Siviana helped me out.  A little more explanation on the consequences of death might be very helpful.

4)  Many folks who come to server have experience with various other servers and games where you must select "release" after death to leave your body.  I've no issues with how it works here, but the second time I recently died, I was with a party.  I didn't know what the heck I should do once I got in the fog maze.  Do I wait for a PC cleric?  Do they drag my body back?  Was the entire party killed?  I stood around a long time waiting, since I wasn't entirely certain whether it was appropriate to send a tell to another member of the party since I was dead.  I think the journals explain how you can be ressurected via the pillars of light, but it still can be confusing for a newbie to learn how each pillar type is different and when to use them.

5)  When in ghost form and someone takes your body to the priest and ressurects you, I was not aware that I had to pick-up my body.  I was just standing there watching and apparently everyone else knew what to do, and assumed I knew also.  Then, after a bit, I started getting tells like "HURRY! Pick up your body!"  Not a big deal since I now know.  Perhaps a special "pop-up" message could be added?


Bottom line, I doubt many folks truly have learning issues or are just plain stupid.  I do agree that many, myself included, will read the journals quickly when they start, but then need to re-read them when the time comes to better learn exactly how things work and apply to the situation.  I think the bigger source of the confusion is that there is alot going on regarding death on PotM which is quite unique and different than many other PWs or other games.  And, while I found the act of respawning to be quite easy (just run to the center pillar), I found the consequences of death and the differences between the pillar types to be more confusing.  I offer the above as my own example of some of the things which caused me confusion (or frustration with my first toon many months back).  However, it is just a list and I don't expect all of the above issues to be addressed; some uncertainty only adds to the suspense and horror that is "Ravenloft".  And, with a couple deaths behind me an Siviana's in-game assistance, I have a much better understanding of how things work.

ThAnswr

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Re: First time death
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2008, 12:12:24 PM »
I'll make the sacrifice:  If you have a question about death, playing, you're lost, whatever, sent me a tell ingame. 

It generally doesn't interfere with my game.  If it does, you'll be on "hold" for a few minute, but I'll answer the tell eventually.

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Re: First time death
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2008, 01:48:37 PM »
I'll make the sacrifice:  If you have a question about death, playing, you're lost, whatever, sent me a tell ingame. 

It generally doesn't interfere with my game.  If it does, you'll be on "hold" for a few minute, but I'll answer the tell eventually.



Ditto

Oh, and I agree with Gnobis and the others about a sign or spirit that guides you after you die the first time.

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bloodandsoil

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Re: First time death
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2008, 09:16:51 AM »
Just now, my character Caedmon Angles died for the first time.  After going to 0 hit points (due to a rat attack in the sewers), he bled to death.

He appeared in the "near ethereal" and starts to walk around in the maze.  He found a tower of mist and walked into it.  Then, he appeared next to his corpse in the sewers.

He tried to enter his corpse (by clicking on it), and received this message:  "Your corpse is too critically impaired for your spirit to return to it.  You will need divine help."

So what now?

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Negnar

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Re: First time death
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2008, 09:19:58 AM »
When you return to your body like that you are only a ghost and you need a preist to raise you.

If you go to the pillar of light in the middle you can respawn, you will lose some XP but you won't need a preist to raise you

bloodandsoil

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Re: First time death
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2008, 09:30:52 AM »
After I've returned to my corpse, is it possible to get back to the pillar of light and respawn?
« Last Edit: March 01, 2008, 09:36:07 AM by bloodandsoil »

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Re: First time death
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2008, 10:15:34 AM »
Yeah, go to a "misty" area and walk into it, such as the one you entered ravenloft with at the vistani encampment outside Vallaki.

ThAnswr

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Re: First time death
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2008, 12:19:51 PM »
When you return to your body like that you are only a ghost and you need a preist to raise you.

If you go to the pillar of light in the middle you can respawn, you will lose some XP but you won't need a preist to raise you

At higher levels, you may lose more than just some XP.  You could lose enough XP to lose levels.  To be on the safe side, send a tell to a priest.  (hint, hint) I'll RP it out.   :D
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bloodandsoil

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Re: First time death
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2008, 12:38:18 PM »
Okay got it, thanks.

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Soulcatchr

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Re: First time death
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2008, 10:06:26 AM »
Not really a first time death question, but a "oh crap I screwed up" question..... :oops:
My character, to which I am greatly attached, somehow, thru my inattention, wound up as a restless spirit.
I couldn't figure out how to get back, don't have anyone to resurrect me....and figured "what the hell" and wandered over to Barovia to the Lathander temple and wandered around...trying to find a gypsy, priest, or even a demon to bring me back.
Am I stuck in semi-permadeath?  I am a bit bored of walking thru werebats now and want to be able to be me and go get my bank account......
thanks in advance.... :banghead:

failed.bard

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Re: First time death
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2008, 10:09:05 AM »
Not really a first time death question, but a "oh crap I screwed up" question..... :oops:
My character, to which I am greatly attached, somehow, thru my inattention, wound up as a restless spirit.
I couldn't figure out how to get back, don't have anyone to resurrect me....and figured "what the hell" and wandered over to Barovia to the Lathander temple and wandered around...trying to find a gypsy, priest, or even a demon to bring me back.
Am I stuck in semi-permadeath?  I am a bit bored of walking thru werebats now and want to be able to be me and go get my bank account......
thanks in advance.... :banghead:

Find a misty area to walk into, that take you back to the spirit world.  Going though one of the portals on the outer ring again will take you to your body.  Once you know where your body is, you just have to find someone to haunt until they get you raised.