Author Topic: Crafting Complaints  (Read 11897 times)

ethinos

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Re: Crafting Complaints
« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2007, 09:53:23 PM »
Apparently, you haven't tried or been exposed to 'hard boiled leather' patches yet. 8)
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Aeol_Strife

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Re: Crafting Complaints
« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2007, 09:59:02 PM »
thats what you get from killing Razorbacks, and Dire Wolves, I have gotten it before and i've crafted it into armor, but it doesn't seem to work.. maybe it was a glitch..

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Re: Crafting Complaints
« Reply #52 on: December 09, 2007, 03:39:54 PM »
Spoiler: show
If you boil "dire leather patches" or "razor back leather patches" then you get "Hard boiled leather patches".

If you put "Hard boiled leather patches" into a set of leather armor instead of "boiled leather patches" you get +1 AC vs slashing and bludgeoning (if I remember correctly)



Both smiths and leatherworkers have to put a lot of time into the craft before they can make that sort of armor however.

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Rex

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Re: Crafting Complaints
« Reply #53 on: December 18, 2007, 10:32:16 PM »
Snake Skin should give you something besides Green.

Especially since the majority of Snakes in the game, ARE NOT GREEN.  Lot of Orange, Brown, Blue........Not a lot of green.

Gloves, cloaks, boots, and such would be nice and Why doesn't the Protection from Cold stuff STACK.  Layering in Winter is allways more effective then crawling inside a Tauntaun.

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ethinos

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Re: Crafting Complaints
« Reply #54 on: December 18, 2007, 11:24:37 PM »
Snake Skin should give you something besides Green.

Actually, I've gotten orders for snakeskin specifically because that color green isn't available in dye form. Personally, I don't see how snake skin would realistically provide any kind of advantage when utilized in making clothes or armor. If nothing else, it's probably worse than typical leather.

Quote
Especially since the majority of Snakes in the game, ARE NOT GREEN.  Lot of Orange, Brown, Blue........Not a lot of green.

Nor are all wolves brown, 'small/medium/large' animals tan, etc. They just have one color per skin type probably for convenience and simplicity.

Quote
Gloves, cloaks, boots, and such would be nice and Why doesn't the Protection from Cold stuff STACK.  Layering in Winter is allways more effective then crawling inside a Tauntaun.

Yes, I'd love to be able to have Torgan craft gauntlets, helms, boots, etc.

They used to be able to line armor with skins that provided 10/ - cold resistance, but they nerfed them all down to 5/- now. So, I'm guessing they really don't want it to all stack and give you uber cold protection. Still, there are other things that provide 10/- and 15/- cold resistance when worn or used, and certain boots provide additional cold immunity for more cold protection.

Torgans winter weather gear is something like 10/= cold resist, +4 or so saves vs cold (on top of his rather large fort save), and 5% cold immunity. Not bad, really.
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Wirth Darmington II: Roguish noble
Kurgh: A simple herdsman

Rex

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Re: Crafting Complaints
« Reply #55 on: December 19, 2007, 11:50:28 AM »
Snake Skin should give you something besides Green.

Actually, I've gotten orders for snakeskin specifically because that color green isn't available in dye form. Personally, I don't see how snake skin would realistically provide any kind of advantage when utilized in making clothes or armor. If nothing else, it's probably worse than typical leather.

Quote
Especially since the majority of Snakes in the game, ARE NOT GREEN.  Lot of Orange, Brown, Blue........Not a lot of green.

Nor are all wolves brown, 'small/medium/large' animals tan, etc. They just have one color per skin type probably for convenience and simplicity.

Quote
Gloves, cloaks, boots, and such would be nice and Why doesn't the Protection from Cold stuff STACK.  Layering in Winter is allways more effective then crawling inside a Tauntaun.

Yes, I'd love to be able to have Torgan craft gauntlets, helms, boots, etc.

They used to be able to line armor with skins that provided 10/ - cold resistance, but they nerfed them all down to 5/- now. So, I'm guessing they really don't want it to all stack and give you uber cold protection. Still, there are other things that provide 10/- and 15/- cold resistance when worn or used, and certain boots provide additional cold immunity for more cold protection.

Torgans winter weather gear is something like 10/= cold resist, +4 or so saves vs cold (on top of his rather large fort save), and 5% cold immunity. Not bad, really.

Unfortuently, the Crafting Set Up isn't just Torgon.  As for snake being wimpy material?  *Falls off the chair*  It's truely, one of the more non user friendly leathers I've ever had the mispleasure of working with in real life.

Reptile Skin, is unbelievably tough.  I've got Rattlesnake boots, that I've worn for since I was 18, then put in the closet for special occasions once I relized just how much a cool thing they are, but they got a good 15 years of solid use in enviroments ranging from California Desert, to Maine Swamp.  They still look brand new and though I do work with Leather as a hobby, I've never so much as lost a stitch on those boots.  Might need to resole them soon considering the age......but in that same time I've destroyed uncountable amounts, of Wolverines, Steel Toe included, Redwings, Timberlines , 12 pairs of Direct Issue size 14 Combat boots, and the list goes on.  By the leather simply wearing out (and leather equivilants, even applying great care and maintence)

Snake Skin is tough.  Meanwhile, I've got a few Furs left over from my last REAL vacation (A friend of mine has roughly 200 miles of trapline out in the serious boonies of Alaska) and if you're a real man, you can take this nice tanned material, and poke your finger though it.  Buckskins are soft and comfortable.  Snake Skin you can drive nails through to stretch for tanning, and bend the nails.

As for no Green Dye?  Wha?!  I trip over green dies all the time.  More shades of Green then anything else.

Still though it looks as if it would be relativly simple, to add a set up for gloves boots helms and what not.  Hell with the gloves and boots you could even add them as seperate Skills, since as I discovered a long time ago as a dabbler in leather work, there are reasons why people go into specialist carreers with this material.  Sadlemakers may know how to stich correctly, but they don't make gloves.

I see a tone of potential, just in a Cobbler tradeskill.  :D

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ethinos

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Re: Crafting Complaints
« Reply #56 on: December 19, 2007, 12:00:22 PM »
Did I say 'no green dye'? Mmm, no. Pretty sure I said the color green that comes out in the final product isn't available as a dye. Its a nice dark emerald green. 8)

I was basing my assumptions of snakeskin based on its thickness, which is extremely thin compared to regular leather. I have snake skin shoes myself, and am not exactly impressed with the durability of the snake skin though. However, I still don't see any reason it'll give you a bonus when used in armor making. (Though you saying its a pain to work with rationalizes for me the increased difficulty in game for incorporating it into armor.) Maybe if they included dire snakes or some magical variants of snakes/reptiles (nagas, wyverns, etc.) then maybe I could see a reasoning behind it.
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Kurgh: A simple herdsman

Francois

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Re: Crafting Complaints
« Reply #57 on: December 19, 2007, 12:39:03 PM »
Traps?....... Can Traps be craftable just like everything else? i.e. you get better with practice and experience?

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Rex

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Re: Crafting Complaints
« Reply #58 on: December 20, 2007, 01:30:26 AM »
Traps?....... Can Traps be craftable just like everything else? i.e. you get better with practice and experience?

PLEASE......Or if not.....Bring back the Basic Craft Traps skills.  Hell the ingrediants are still in game.

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flamedance58

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Re: Crafting Complaints
« Reply #59 on: January 04, 2008, 03:06:31 PM »
Sorry for the bump, but I think the idea of having some sort of more detailed information would be good for the new comers to Ravenloft.

I for one would appreciate even the most basic tips ingame from the NPCs like what a Primary Material is, you'd think the recipe would actually tell you what that is.

Either that or maybe a few of the higher up crafters could advertise, if they care to and are nice enough, to be looking for apprentices to help them with their works and to also train the future trademen/women.

Do note this also means those who apprentice under you guys will be your lil slaves that you kinda teach on the side, so there's some incentive!

ethinos

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Re: Crafting Complaints
« Reply #60 on: January 04, 2008, 03:31:01 PM »
I know where you are coming from, but to be honest I think apprenticeship should be required (or at least on-the-job training) to be able to do a craft such as this. By giving up all the information up front removes the need to search out those crafters, and removes any mystery of how crafting is done. Its even possible (though unlikely) that there may still even be secrets left in some of the crafting fields. In the days of the middle ages books were rare and the literate were few. Crafts were learned from apprenticeship. I would like to keep this kind of setup for our server. Another way of promoting roleplaying too.

If you want to be a tradesman, you should have to seek out other tradesmen for the knowledge or as a last resort have to stumble upon the secrets with a bit of difficulty by yourself if you don't.

As for the established crafters, I know a handful of master smiths, one master woodworker, and one fellow with a pretty good leatherworking ability. If you ask around IG or post notices in the IC section of the forum, I'm sure you could hunt someone down without too much difficulty. Some of the smiths, including Torgan, have mastered the basics in all the crafts as smithing requires knowledge in quite a few areas to produce their goods.

For example:

Metal armor needs smelting, smithing, and hide curing.
Shields needs smelting, smithing, and carpentry.
Weapons needs smelting, smithing, and sometimes carpentry.

The big exception is arrow/bolt making. Lots of knowledge in several areas for this.
Arrows/bolts needs smelting, smithing, carpentry, and woodworking. All in good amounts to make steel versions. (Getting good in all these skills is a pain, let me tell you! But I'm making steel bolts/arrows already.)

But, I've trained folks in smithing and leatherworking before, and if you catch me at an idle moment or doing crafting myself, I'd be more than happy to RP some training.
Torgan Ironshield: Battlerager and smith
Wirth Darmington II: Roguish noble
Kurgh: A simple herdsman

Catacomb

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Re: Crafting Complaints
« Reply #61 on: January 04, 2008, 05:43:57 PM »
Required apprenticing doesn't work on a server like ours.


We're not going to tell player x "You can't craft that leather unless you manage to find the one other player on the server who's already doing it, y'hear!?"



Rping apprenticeship and such is great, but I highly doubt it'll ever be mechanically enforced.

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ethinos

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Re: Crafting Complaints
« Reply #62 on: January 04, 2008, 05:55:09 PM »
Er, I meant you either apprentice or get training IG, or you have to figure everything out on your own with the few IG hints and info that's available. Didn't mean to imply any kind of mechanical restrictions or limitations.

I'm completely against those 'walkthru' manuals and such available for most CRPG's right next to the box one the shelf in the gaming stores. If you want to learn something, like crafting, either try your hand at it experimentally or find someone to show and tell you how.

Not, turn to page 126, and suddenly know the entire ins and outs on how metalsmithing works.
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eyeofpestilence

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Re: Crafting Complaints
« Reply #63 on: January 04, 2008, 06:21:38 PM »
Dorin has helped out a number of aspiring smiths in game and I've helped out way more OOC. Heck Dorin went so far with one PC (which he never saw again on line) as to give them five hundred gold, shown the location of ore and gave them a smithing hammer. Ask around for a smith and see if you can apprentice with them.

Thanks DW!

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Re: Crafting Complaints
« Reply #64 on: January 04, 2008, 07:49:58 PM »
  Apprenticing people has the added advantage of having someone to RP with through some of the most monotonous things you can do in PotM.  At low smelting levels when you still have to do one at a time because you fail more than you succeed, it's really nice to have someone to talk to IC, because it takes a long time to do 100 ore that way.

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Re: Crafting Complaints
« Reply #65 on: January 04, 2008, 10:54:55 PM »
  Apprenticing people has the added advantage of having someone to RP with through some of the most monotonous things you can do in PotM.  At low smelting levels when you still have to do one at a time because you fail more than you succeed, it's really nice to have someone to talk to IC, because it takes a long time to do 100 ore that way.

You end up with the same amount of ore if you smelt 10 at a time as if you smelt 1 at a time, generally. (of course there's good days and bad days)


Smelting ore 1 at a time is tedious and a general waste of time, imo.  :P

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ethinos

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Re: Crafting Complaints
« Reply #66 on: January 04, 2008, 11:00:34 PM »
Well, some folks apparently prefer the one at a time method at first since you don't gain cxp from failing at smelting and since we all know that NWN's random rolls are anything but.... :lol:
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Mcskinns

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Re: Crafting Complaints
« Reply #67 on: January 04, 2008, 11:29:35 PM »


You end up with the same amount of ore if you smelt 10 at a time as if you smelt 1 at a time, generally. (of course there's good days and bad days)


Smelting ore 1 at a time is tedious and a general waste of time, imo.  :P

actually... Smelting doesn't work the same as boiling leathers.  you put in up to 10 ore and either fail or succeed on all 10.  Whereas boiling leather ran a series of checks on each pair of ingredients put into it... then failed to take away the failed ingredients and bugged them and sometimes the whole boiling pot.

I'd be in favor of an all or nothing roll in boiling leathers as well, seems to work better.  And in the end... if your doing several at once, then chances are they will all turn out the same.




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ethinos

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Re: Crafting Complaints
« Reply #68 on: January 05, 2008, 02:53:41 AM »
Well, the nice thing about the leather boiling is that they can be different kinds with different DC's. Smelting must be the same ore. *shrugs* Both have advantages.
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failed.bard

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Re: Crafting Complaints
« Reply #69 on: January 05, 2008, 03:57:15 AM »
It had actually seemed like you got slightly more CXP if you did them one at a time, as in, if you did one, you got 15 cxp, but if you did 10, you only got 120.  I could probably go get some iron and double check if this wasn't a deliberate thing.

Edit:  I was bored and checked this just now.  Seems to give CXP properly, so I must have either had less in then I thought, or did the math wrong when I check it before.

Completely off topic, Wilhelm now has 68 spare iron ingots.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2008, 05:03:29 AM by failed.bard »

Francois

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Re: Crafting Complaints
« Reply #70 on: January 15, 2008, 03:45:38 PM »
Crafting Traps?
Is there any way to get better at this skill?
Is a Crafting system for traps anywhere on the horizon?
Pretty please... :pain12:

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ethinos

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Re: Crafting Complaints
« Reply #71 on: January 15, 2008, 03:59:18 PM »
Crafting Traps?
Is there any way to get better at this skill?

No, as the only way to improve the old system was to add skill points in, which I don't think is possible anymore.

Quote
Is a Crafting system for traps anywhere on the horizon?
Pretty please... :pain12:

Yes, it will be implemented, but I don't think its any where near the top of the priority list. In the mean time, you can still either buy traps or remove them from existing locations for your personal use.
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Helaman

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Re: Crafting Complaints
« Reply #72 on: January 15, 2008, 08:44:44 PM »


You end up with the same amount of ore if you smelt 10 at a time as if you smelt 1 at a time, generally. (of course there's good days and bad days)


Smelting ore 1 at a time is tedious and a general waste of time, imo.  :P

actually... Smelting doesn't work the same as boiling leathers.  you put in up to 10 ore and either fail or succeed on all 10.  Whereas boiling leather ran a series of checks on each pair of ingredients put into it... then failed to take away the failed ingredients and bugged them and sometimes the whole boiling pot.

I'd be in favor of an all or nothing roll in boiling leathers as well, seems to work better.  And in the end... if your doing several at once, then chances are they will all turn out the same.



Heeeeeeeeey

Gilding has the same - error!

We may need to look at the scripts for both as well as the scripts for smelting... maybe we can change the scripts to allow for a)Multiple item creation b) Elimination of the bug

And Otake, Wulfgang Eberhardt, Aesin, Humiko, Bonereaver, Anthrania + whatever concept I am playing with...

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Re: Crafting Complaints
« Reply #73 on: January 16, 2008, 02:17:26 AM »
just a heads up on the Leather Boiler bug,

It seems that when you attempt to boil several patches at once, the system somehow bugs on some failures.  It leaves the wax and the fur in the boiler and from then on it ignores the first two items put into it on each successive attempt.  You can still pile in another large batch and keep working, but you'll never manage to get the last ones to process. Not sure what exactly would be the cause of that, but it seems to be what it is doing.



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Dreaderick

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Re: Crafting Complaints
« Reply #74 on: January 16, 2008, 04:56:28 AM »
just a heads up on the Leather Boiler bug,

It seems that when you attempt to boil several patches at once, the system somehow bugs on some failures.  It leaves the wax and the fur in the boiler and from then on it ignores the first two items put into it on each successive attempt.  You can still pile in another large batch and keep working, but you'll never manage to get the last ones to process. Not sure what exactly would be the cause of that, but it seems to be what it is doing.

No, that's not what happens. I've had patches remaining without having any reported boiling failures. The process seems to skip the first two or three patches of a large batch. That could be a lag issue..

 If you take out all the succesfully boiled patches and try again the remaining unboiled patches are processed, most of the time. Should that not be the case you can add some extra wax and try again.


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