Dungeons after spawn growth tweak

[Weyland]

There is a ton to do besides dungeon and this directly relates to the topic because if every one of us played that way just a little bit more then spawn rates would be fine. Stop trying to mess with the sauce just to satisfy diminished playstyles.

[Anarcoplayba]

There is a ton to do besides dungeon and this directly relates to the topic because if every one of us played that way just a little bit more then spawn rates would be fine. Stop trying to mess with the sauce just to satisfy diminished playstyles.

See, I find it really lovelly that some people like to play the game differently than I do. And I do not find the other ways to play "diminished playstyles", which frankly, I consider offensive.

Even ignoring the pretension of teaching everyone else the "right way of having fun", it is a fact that no one seems to be having fun with the aforementioned changes.

[Duayne]

There is a ton to do besides dungeon and this directly relates to the topic because if every one of us played that way just a little bit more then spawn rates would be fine. Stop trying to mess with the sauce just to satisfy diminished playstyles.

I am someone that very rarely dungeons, yet I can see the severe time impact this 'fix' will bring. When I do get around to doing a dungeon, I don't want it to be a slog trying to find somewhere worth going that hasn't been done in the past 12 hours.

[goFigure...]

Someone had to say it though. And nobody actually has a valid refutation. You wanna play dungeons of Ravenloft as full-time character occupation, then have gall to suggest maxing spawn rates to suit yourself AND on top of it all express your dislike of playing.

Every moment with your character is a scene. Play that way and dungeons are no longer such monomaniacal obsession. Solves your problem and preserves server intent and design.

[Maiyannah]

I don't think how you think you're helping anything by patronizing down to people whom choose to prioritise roleplaying on a roleplaying server, but this is not respectful of your fellow players.

Please stop.

[goFigure...]

Not patronizing down. He complained about "standing around for hours" only to then go to a dungeon and find it at less than max spawn.

Edit: Intention is not dispespect but rather to encourage players who stand around with their characters for hours to find some occupation other than dungeoning. It's valid point, has nothing personal behind it; not easy to say without sounding abrasive and ruffling feathers; my regrets.

[The Prophet of Misinformation]

Everyone is entitled to play on the server however they see fit provided it is respectful of other players and their autonomy and abides the rules. Kindly keep this in mind.

[Anarcoplayba]

Someone had to say it though. And nobody actually has a valid refutation. You wanna play dungeons of Ravenloft as full-time character occupation, then have gall to suggest maxing spawn rates to suit yourself AND on top of it all express your dislike of playing.

Every moment with your character is a scene. Play that way and dungeons are no longer such monomaniacal obsession. Solves your problem and preserves server intent and design.

So, you may be letting your convictions blur the issue:

There was a certain dynamic of the server.

This dynamic was changed.

Many people disliked.

Now, if you understand that this is good because it will teach people to play NWN  The Sims edition, find a virtual bride, build a make believe bar, with fantasy recipes and trade make believe gold for make believe food, nice, ok, go for it. You kind is in your right to teach unsolicited lessons on how to enjoy videogames.

The fact, however, is still that the server had for twenty years one philosophy and now changed to one that seems to be undesirable for a lot of people.

We are expressing our dislikes in hopes of returning to the dynamic that kept us playing for twenty years.

We, the unsatisfied, are not advocating for a change to better cattle our playstyle, you, the satisfied with the changes, are. Big difference on who wants to force behaviours on who.

[myrddraal]

There is a ton to do besides dungeon and this directly relates to the topic because if every one of us played that way just a little bit more then spawn rates would be fine. Stop trying to mess with the sauce just to satisfy diminished playstyles.

I don’t dungeon every single day and it’s bold to assume everyone just grinds dungeons.  I do crafts, plenty of high stakes roleplay, and also enjoy dungeon content when I am waiting for DMs to want to take RP hooks I throw out Bevause there are many things that in fact cannot be done without their supervision and control of npcs.

This system does not provide thought provoking RP.  It’s just inconvenient.

[transcend]

Not patronizing down. He complained about "standing around for hours" only to then go to a dungeon and find it at less than max spawn.

Edit: Intention is not dispespect but rather to encourage players who stand around with their characters for hours to find some occupation other than dungeoning. It's valid point, has nothing personal behind it; not easy to say without sounding abrasive and ruffling feathers; my regrets.

I think you need to be more generous about how other people prefer to spend their time. Anarco's played on this server for years, has had characters in positions of membership in many PC factions and has driven RP in addition to helping other players' characters reach their goals through connections with his own.

'Find something to do other than dungeoning' falls flat in face of the fact every player here has a different reality going on. Some people's times are constrained due to RL circumstances that greatly limit their play time, so they often have to choose between dungeons or roleplaying in a public square, or selling their wares. It's a very bad presumption to make on people's time on the game and how they spend it.

It's worse when it's written in defense of something that greatly curtails (as he rightly put it) the worth of investment of one's time in an activity that is, ostensibly, for fun.

I don't know about you, but I am a terrible gacha gamer.

[goFigure...]

The fact, however, is still that the server had for twenty years one philosophy and now changed to one that seems to be undesirable for a lot of people.

But that is false. The way it is right now is a reversion to the way it has been for the last 20 years. It undoes a recent change.

Also my point is exclusively directed at the portion of the playerbase who just grinds dungeons. It is allowable to do this, sure. But then, I merely point out that the dungeon spawn levels would be fine if they didn't do it so much. I already basically said this above but it seems like clarification is required: I want to be sure that nobody is having any disrespect from this perspective.

[Siobhan]

Who does it hurt to increase the dungeon spawn recovery?

The concerns listed are XP progress and loot chances. But there are already systems in place which strictly control those things:
- Red cap prevents XP grind.
- As is told to us, there is a mechanic in place that prevent the same people from spawning good loot in a dungeon until a cooldown occurs.

Some players will spend a week running everything they can find. I've done dungeoning fugues before in my ancient player history, they can be fun! It isn't my preferred gameplay style, but it is a charm of the dungeons and dragons system - that there exists infinite adventure, only your resources and skills are the limiting factor.

Even with the 'bug' I have never seen a full spawn dungeon in the last three months. So hearing that it is being rolled back to even less monster populations is disappointing.

[goFigure...]

Not patronizing down. He complained about "standing around for hours" only to then go to a dungeon and find it at less than max spawn.

Edit: Intention is not dispespect but rather to encourage players who stand around with their characters for hours to find some occupation other than dungeoning. It's valid point, has nothing personal behind it; not easy to say without sounding abrasive and ruffling feathers; my regrets.

I think you need to be more generous about how other people prefer to spend their time. Anarco's played on this server for years, has had characters in positions of membership in many PC factions and has driven RP in addition to helping other players' characters reach their goals through connections with his own.

'Find something to do other than dungeoning' falls flat in face of the fact every player here has a different reality going on. Some people's times are constrained due to RL circumstances that greatly limit their play time, so they often have to choose between dungeons or roleplaying in a public square, or selling their wares. It's a very bad presumption to make on people's time on the game and how they spend it.

It's worse when it's written in defense of something that greatly curtails (as he rightly put it) the worth of investment of one's time in an activity that is, ostensibly, for fun.

I don't know about you, but I am a terrible gacha gamer.

Well I am being genuine, first of all. If not, generous.

I don't know anything about any player specifically and am not interested to be drawn into personal conflict.

I didn't presume anything other than what I read at face-value: A complaint about standing around for hours only to finally go on to a dungeon and find it at less than max spawn.  SO wait, that isn't your experience?...then why did you say it in support of your comment?

[transcend]

Not patronizing down. He complained about "standing around for hours" only to then go to a dungeon and find it at less than max spawn.

Edit: Intention is not dispespect but rather to encourage players who stand around with their characters for hours to find some occupation other than dungeoning. It's valid point, has nothing personal behind it; not easy to say without sounding abrasive and ruffling feathers; my regrets.

I think you need to be more generous about how other people prefer to spend their time. Anarco's played on this server for years, has had characters in positions of membership in many PC factions and has driven RP in addition to helping other players' characters reach their goals through connections with his own.

'Find something to do other than dungeoning' falls flat in face of the fact every player here has a different reality going on. Some people's times are constrained due to RL circumstances that greatly limit their play time, so they often have to choose between dungeons or roleplaying in a public square, or selling their wares. It's a very bad presumption to make on people's time on the game and how they spend it.

It's worse when it's written in defense of something that greatly curtails (as he rightly put it) the worth of investment of one's time in an activity that is, ostensibly, for fun.

I don't know about you, but I am a terrible gacha gamer.

Well I am being genuine, first of all. If not, generous.

I don't know anything about any player specifically and am not interested to be drawn into personal conflict.

I didn't presume anything other than what I read at face-value: A complaint about standing around for hours only to finally go on to a dungeon and find it at less than max spawn.  SO wait, that isn't your experience?...then why did you say it in support of your comment?

I find it odd that an account with only five posts has been saying things about the last 20 years, as if speaking from knowledge and authority to begin with. I even apologize for opening with this, but I thought I would highlight it.

Second, sometimes the composition you need to do any dungeon is 1 warder, 1 trapper, 1 or 2 hitters. Depending on the dungeon, it may be more than this. So yes, you would stand around for hours in Mist Camp or maybe the Outskirts or even the Quartier Publique in order to recruit people to your 'expedition', or however you want to call it, if you are unlucky.

I've experienced this, but generally, I lose interest and log out, try another time. When I spend my time anywhere, I want it to be a meaningful investment. Time is precious. You don't get time back. As a result, I do value my time greatly. When I want to have fun, I have to allocate the hours to have fun. Sometimes I have more time, sometimes I have less. Other times I don't play at all because life demands nothing less from me than total investment.

When I'm here, I'm here to have fun. I can, of course, find my fun roleplaying, if that's what I want to do. Now, if all I want to do is dungeon for a couple of hours, I don't see how fun it is to hunt down an available and properly challenging dungeon for an hour and a half out of, say, the two hours I have to play.

So if the returns for investing my time are diminishing, odds are, I will eventually grow frustrated and find something else to do.

[goFigure...]

I just wonder what it is that you believe accounts for this dungeon spawn problem. That the dungeons are experiencing more activity must be the answer (since dungeon spawning is now set to the traditional levels). Well, next question is begged: What is it that you believe is the cause of the increased dungeon activity? More players dungeoning more, right? Well, instead of changing the traditional spawn rates, why not explore other solutions such as 1) Making more dungeons  2) Making more occupations (cargo delivery, etc). 3) Encourage the players who do not much else but grinding dungeons to find for their characters something else to do. 4) Anything else besides suggesting pumping spawn rates to max.

[Flat Cap]

Ok, I'll try to explain my logic a little better.

Let us consider dungeons A B & C.

Assuming all the dungeons are at max spawn:
Dungeon A provides reward and exp and a high chance of success.
Dungeon B provides reward and exp and a moderate chance of success.
Dungeon C provides reward and exp and almost no chance of success.

Recently the status quo has been to seek out Dungeon A at max spawn because it presents the greatest guarantee of success with the highest reward of XP or loot or both. Some parties don't mind running it at a low or mid spawn because it's still a benefit to them. Some parties might seek out Dungeon B because it's manageable, but some may shy away because they're not confident that they can complete it. Those same parties will avoid dungeon C all together.

Now, the system has changed and spawn rates are accruing slower, thus dungeons are not reaching Max spawn as frequently.

Lets assume now that all dungeons will be at low spawn.
Dungeon A provides little reward by way of exp but still rewards loot and has a very high chance of success.
Dungeon B provides reward of exp and loot and has a high chance of success.
Dungeon C provides reward of exp and loot and has a moderate chance of success.

Now, rather than groups passing up dungeon C because it will be too difficult, they'll pass up Dungeon A because it provides less reward. In it's current state, the status quo should shift from seeking out the highest spawn on the lowest dungeons to seeking out the lowest spawns on the higher dungeons. This is a benefit to the server IMO as there isn't a feeling of time wasted seeking out the high spawn when some other party had just completed.

The benefit to the current system is that there may be a high spawn out there somewhere on Dungeon A making that trip slightly more challenging to the group, but also more rewarding because it provides said rewards. When Dungeon C is too challenging, parties may still work part of the way into the dungeon without completing it and still be rewarded whereas previously, they wouldn't have even attempted to go there.

Basically, what I'm saying is that if you shift your focus to seeking out dungeons at high spawn to seeking out dungeons at low and medium spawns you'll likely find more success in your dungeoneering as well as the potential for greater challenges within.

[transcend]

I just wonder what it is that you believe accounts for this dungeon spawn problem. That the dungeons are experiencing more activity must be the answer (since dungeon spawning is now set to the traditional levels). Well, next question is begged: What is it that you believe is the cause of the increased dungeon activity? More players dungeoning more, right? Well, instead of changing the traditional spawn rates, why not explore other solutions such as 1) Making more dungeons  2) Making more occupations (cargo delivery, etc). 3) Encourage the players who do not much else but grinding dungeons to find for their characters something else to do. 4) Anything else besides suggesting pumping spawn rates to max.

There is always the option to prioritize RP as the main source of XP, and thus increase RP XP either by decreasing the delay between crons that proc it, or increasing the XP you get per hit.

Dungeon activity has always been high on this server. This has never changed. There are always multiple groups, somewhere, doing something. It seems to me that the rebalancing actually shifted the scales towards more cumbersome dungeoning for players in general.

Occupations aren't as rewarding as dungeons, making more dungeons depends on how many people are good with the toolkit, and some other activities still depend on a substantial time investment on the part of the player.

@Flat Cap,  that logic doesn't seem sound to me at all in light of the reality of the game's dungeons. Nobody is going to the Barrows, even at low spawn, thinking they're gonna have a grand old time. It only takes one salt shadow for a party without the adequate firepower to regret it instantly.

[Anarcoplayba]

First of all, it should be stated that the context here is a bug that was causing some places to have too low spawn. That was corrected a month ago, which then led to us to re-evaluate spawn levels after fixing it. Doing this, we saw that the spawn levels were now in general very high, which led to the most recent adjustment.

Now, it's important to have in mind here that lower spawns doesn't mean that the dungeons are empty. It may mean that the places you used to go to are now too little of a challenge, but at the same time, other places that were before too hard may now be possible to explore.

It does mean that which dungeons you will be able to clear completely is now a bit less predictable and more dynamic. But this is by design - both to make it harder to speculate how to mechanically maximize challenge-to-reward, and (much more importantly) to make it feel less repetitive, to introduce the element of uncertainty that's pivotal to the setting theme, and to make the world and it's inhabitants seem more alive.

The thing is that seems to be a bit of an ambiguous message:

On one hand, nothing changed and it is how it has been in the last twenty years.

On the other hand there are changes that make the dungeons more unpredictable and will change the dungeons you can go to avoid one to calculate what they can do.

That paired with the apparently consistent low spawn across the server really does suggest that the spawn is geowing slower to reduce its predicability and, as Eo said, create a server in which "the dungeons were never supposed to be full spawn every time".

[myrddraal]

Ok, I'll try to explain my logic a little better.

Let us consider dungeons A B & C.

Assuming all the dungeons are at max spawn:
Dungeon A provides reward and exp and a high chance of success.
Dungeon B provides reward and exp and a moderate chance of success.
Dungeon C provides reward and exp and almost no chance of success.

Recently the status quo has been to seek out Dungeon A at max spawn because it presents the greatest guarantee of success with the highest reward of XP or loot or both. Some parties don't mind running it at a low or mid spawn because it's still a benefit to them. Some parties might seek out Dungeon B because it's manageable, but some may shy away because they're not confident that they can complete it. Those same parties will avoid dungeon C all together.

Now, the system has changed and spawn rates are accruing slower, thus dungeons are not reaching Max spawn as frequently.

Lets assume now that all dungeons will be at low spawn.
Dungeon A provides little reward by way of exp but still rewards loot and has a very high chance of success.
Dungeon B provides reward of exp and loot and has a high chance of success.
Dungeon C provides reward of exp and loot and has a moderate chance of success.

Now, rather than groups passing up dungeon C because it will be too difficult, they'll pass up Dungeon A because it provides less reward. In it's current state, the status quo should shift from seeking out the highest spawn on the lowest dungeons to seeking out the lowest spawns on the higher dungeons. This is a benefit to the server IMO as there isn't a feeling of time wasted seeking out the high spawn when some other party had just completed.

The benefit to the current system is that there may be a high spawn out there somewhere on Dungeon A making that trip slightly more challenging to the group, but also more rewarding because it provides said rewards. When Dungeon C is too challenging, parties may still work part of the way into the dungeon without completing it and still be rewarded whereas previously, they wouldn't have even attempted to go there.

Basically, what I'm saying is that if you shift your focus to seeking out dungeons at high spawn to seeking out dungeons at low and medium spawns you'll likely find more success in your dungeoneering as well as the potential for greater challenges within.

I feel like you are intentionally ignoring the time that it takes to pass from dungeon a to b to c which can also take upwards of an hour of peoples day during which they will have found zero content that was a suitable challenge for what was expected when they first set out.  Nobody plans for a low spawn.  Ever.  If you plan for a low spawn you are more than likely going to die.  You plan for a max spawn or at least relatively high spawn.  You would not show up to the barrow of the sleeping king or the salt mines hoping it was recently cleared so you could finish it.  Thats not a thing that happens.  Especially because as you get higher in level and things do get more dangerous and rescues become much harder, nobody wants to plan for a low spawn and be dead for hours on end waiting for a survivor, if there was one, to get help and rally a rescuing party.  Assuming you are doing it the way you are supposed to and not just @ing people on discord.

Coupled with the time spent roleplaying around your campfire or the outskirts or whatever other hub you are in until you've gathered all the players you require, an additional hour on top of what you've already spent is simply too much for most people to maintain interest or even have the play time to even use.

[Lucadia]

Just put this out here, I been on and off for almost two decades. I don't recall spawns being issue before. Sure you may need to wait a day or two, a group just cleared it, but least you eventually get your turn.  When it rebuilds so slow as to make several groups find they no options after organizing a meet up, people do just log. I had a recent Friday of running a group checking 5 dungeons suitable for our levels. No luck. But no one was upset because there was tomorrow.  Please adjust them back so the occasional dungeoners and the grinders are not fighting each other.

[Anarcoplayba]

Just put this out here, I been on and off for almost two decades. I don't recall spawns being issue before. Sure you may need to wait a day or two, a group just cleared it, but least you eventually get your turn.  When it rebuilds so slow as to make several groups find they no options after organizing a meet up, people do just log. I had a recent Friday of running a group checking 5 dungeons suitable for our levels. No luck. But no one was upset because there was tomorrow.  Please adjust them back so the occasional dungeoners and the grinders are not fighting each other.

I recently had one experience that ilustrates another layer of the problem:

Went to Tejeda in three people. We opened de Gates. Weak.

Player 1: "Weak. Not worth it. Gonna head back."
Player 2: "Well, I am already here and will not have time to go anywhere else. Gona clear this because it is what it is."

With fewer players and the conviction that "there will be tomorrow and we wll have better luck" you eventually have better luck. But with a consistent sensation that things never will be better than 50% spawn, eh, I'll take 30% over nothing.

And good luck trying to convince the whole playerbase do behave similar. It is easier to shepherd cats.

[Flat Cap]

Ok, I'll try to explain my logic a little better.

Let us consider dungeons A B & C.

Assuming all the dungeons are at max spawn:
Dungeon A provides reward and exp and a high chance of success.
Dungeon B provides reward and exp and a moderate chance of success.
Dungeon C provides reward and exp and almost no chance of success.

Recently the status quo has been to seek out Dungeon A at max spawn because it presents the greatest guarantee of success with the highest reward of XP or loot or both. Some parties don't mind running it at a low or mid spawn because it's still a benefit to them. Some parties might seek out Dungeon B because it's manageable, but some may shy away because they're not confident that they can complete it. Those same parties will avoid dungeon C all together.

Now, the system has changed and spawn rates are accruing slower, thus dungeons are not reaching Max spawn as frequently.

Lets assume now that all dungeons will be at low spawn.
Dungeon A provides little reward by way of exp but still rewards loot and has a very high chance of success.
Dungeon B provides reward of exp and loot and has a high chance of success.
Dungeon C provides reward of exp and loot and has a moderate chance of success.

Now, rather than groups passing up dungeon C because it will be too difficult, they'll pass up Dungeon A because it provides less reward. In it's current state, the status quo should shift from seeking out the highest spawn on the lowest dungeons to seeking out the lowest spawns on the higher dungeons. This is a benefit to the server IMO as there isn't a feeling of time wasted seeking out the high spawn when some other party had just completed.

The benefit to the current system is that there may be a high spawn out there somewhere on Dungeon A making that trip slightly more challenging to the group, but also more rewarding because it provides said rewards. When Dungeon C is too challenging, parties may still work part of the way into the dungeon without completing it and still be rewarded whereas previously, they wouldn't have even attempted to go there.

Basically, what I'm saying is that if you shift your focus to seeking out dungeons at high spawn to seeking out dungeons at low and medium spawns you'll likely find more success in your dungeoneering as well as the potential for greater challenges within.

I feel like you are intentionally ignoring the time that it takes to pass from dungeon a to b to c which can also take upwards of an hour of peoples day during which they will have found zero content that was a suitable challenge for what was expected when they first set out.  Nobody plans for a low spawn.  Ever.  If you plan for a low spawn you are more than likely going to die.  You plan for a max spawn or at least relatively high spawn.  You would not show up to the barrow of the sleeping king or the salt mines hoping it was recently cleared so you could finish it.  Thats not a thing that happens.  Especially because as you get higher in level and things do get more dangerous and rescues become much harder, nobody wants to plan for a low spawn and be dead for hours on end waiting for a survivor, if there was one, to get help and rally a rescuing party.  Assuming you are doing it the way you are supposed to and not just @ing people on discord.

Coupled with the time spent roleplaying around your campfire or the outskirts or whatever other hub you are in until you've gathered all the players you require, an additional hour on top of what you've already spent is simply too much for most people to maintain interest or even have the play time to even use.

You're missing the point. Change your perception and seek out the low spawn of a dungeon that is more challenging instead of seeking out the high spawn of a less challenging dungeon. If the spawn rate is slower and offering more low spawn dungeons at this time, it simply means you need to adjust to the new reality which is, to no longer seek out high spawns, but to seek out low spawns. Time to travel between dungeons is irrelevant.

[Lucadia]

As a ninja looter, items are tied to spawn. Good items have next till nill appearing if you fight low spawns. But hey if you don't want swordsmans belts, armors and rare crafting materials, this guarantees that. I'll respond if by raising prices due to no good spawns. Trust me, been there on resentment when grinders killed spawns so fast there wasn't a place to loot.

[myrddraal]

Thats how you end up dead in Sithicus for upwards of twelve hours.  If you plan for low spawns it isnt a "pleasant surprise" to find it high.  You have wasted your time in both scenarios presented if you are either showing up expecting an appropriate challenge or you show up wildly unprepared and need to be rescued.  Showing up for mid / low spawns is less of a waste around Vallaki because everything is much closer together.  If the wasps are weak you can go to the ghouls or depending on the time of year the fey dungeon or maybe even werebats.

I feel like you are not recognizing the steep increase in difficulty that comes with progressing further down the line because there is a massive difference in challenge between low spawn aboleth and high spawn aboleth.  Or Blackwatch, Perfidus, Sithicus, Ghastria, Har Akir, Markovia, Hazlan dungeons.  Low spawn aboleth oozes are not going to one round you on a moderately decently leveled character.  The high spawns will though.  Even the gendarme thralls will quickly shred people if theyre not careful on a max, but on a low / mid?  Theyre pretty negligible.  Actual challenge and XP aside, there is also very little reason to actively pursue a "low spawn" dungeon that has the items you want in its loot pool because they are simply never going to drop if you are chasing low spawn dungeons.

The main point almost everyone except for you and Abear are making is that people should not be penalized for others having run content because you were roleplaying and not dungeon grinding all day.  That is the core issue and why people like myself, Anarch, Appep, are all in favor of a more static challenge to the dungeons and leaving "spicing" them up to DMs (which is exceptionally rare and almost never to be expected.  I've had a DM come into 1-2 dungeons -ever- in about 3-4 years on the server) and AMPCs.  There is nothing wrong with consistency.  There are also better ways of handling reducing the monotony of dungeoning as well like randomizing trap placement.  The majesty of a exploring a new dungeon is lost after a handful of times you visit it.  It especially is non existent for players who are veterans who are aware of the placement of every single trap and its DC to disarm, every lock DC, where every ambush is, etc.  The only thing that changes in a low spawn scenario is that they are all just weaker.  You can immediately tell when it is going to be a waste of time and effort - and not only that but because you've run that dungeon you're now tagged as having cleared it recently and checked the containers so if you come back tomorrow, you will just have diminished returns on loot even if the XP is fine.

There is enough randomization in loot and the grind takes long enough as it is.  It doesnt -need- to be lengthened with arbitrary circumstances that are just frustrating.  There are not enough DMs to give everyone or every organization individual attention and plotlines.  Dungeons are one area where everyone can and should have equal opportunity to enjoy the content.

An additional point, a level 20 monk literally just came and soloed a dungeon that gives him no XP with an exceptionally rare chance for loot.  People do absolutely ruin the spawns for others who would actually benefit from completing the dungeons just because they -can- solo them.  In this particular instance (I did talk to them later) it was for crafting materials which is also another reason to have static spawns.  It might not intentionally be done just to keep spawns low for others, but it is directly what happens after the fact.
 The grind on crafts is already incredibly long.  I've used like 300 hides to move up like 2 points in leatherworking for example.  Maybe more dungeons should get the treatment Sithicus got where you have to meet a player requirement to even open the doors.  That would completely eliminate that one issue.  Even if it kills ninja looting, which I dont think most people will miss.

[augustaugur]

Should this change be permanent - I understand that the developers have mentioned wanting to look into it again, but as a hypothetical - then may I suggest bringing up roleplay experience ticks across the board if the object is to discourage circle grinding?

As-is, for players who do not have the time to be constantly checking spawns and organize specific times during the week to pursue serious PvE content as a group such as myself, if spawns are not high we do not have the option of trying again until the next week where in all likelihood the spawns will still be cleared out and weak. That is the nature of having over 100 concurrent players, many of them wanting to go to the same places that we do every day. Crabs in a bucket, and so on.

I do plenty of roleplay throughout the week. It would be preferable to have the balance shifted in favor of the consistent activity as opposed to the sometimes jackpot of a high spawn that is no longer anywhere near guaranteed.