Another Improving Assassin Thread

[Vissy]

It's been a few months since the last one, and since Assassin is still rather lackluster both in terms of flavor and at actually assassinating anything, I thought I'd raise this topic again.

Going to go straight into the meat and bones of it - here are a few great suggestions for improving Assassin:

1) HIPS at Level 8. A common suggestion with a lot of history. The drawbacks are also well-known to those who remember the earlier threads: there are fears giving Assassin HIPS might dilute the uniqueness of classes like Shadowdancer. Personally, I think this is something that can be resolved. After all, in pen and paper, Assassin does have Hide in Plain Sight at Level 8. I think it would make a lot of sense to at least give them this.

2) Crafting poisons / ways to improve the DCs of existing poisons. This would require creating new poison items, I believe, or adding in existing poisons (with bumped-up DCs) as Assassin-unique items. Since poisons are a part of the Assassin's toolkit, this would be a flavorful mechanic to add to the class which would make the class more unique, allowing it to stand out from your standard rogue/fighter/rangers and whatnot.

3) Add more Assassin-specific trinkets and equipment. Currently, there are very few such items in the module, and there could stand to be a few more - these items should mainly concern spell slots, as otherwise other UMD classes might benefit too much from them.

[Frankz]

If assassins need a buff, give acccess to more bonus feats.

[FinalHeaven]

Assassins do need some sort of improvement but unfortunately the persistent, incorrect stigma around them being the "PvP class" makes it unlikely.

They're great for flavor and in extremely rare cases they're great for the Master/Apprentice style roleplay, but the latter is so close to being non existent due to even the average player realizing there are far stronger builds out there that it probably shouldn't even be counted as a positive.

They absolutely could do with HIPS but that'll never fly, usually for the reason stated above.  I'd very much love to see some sort of special poison creation/strengthening feature for them.

[myrddraal]

Poison craft with unique poisons with actually good DCs as an added class spell like ability with how palemaster get summon undead and summon greater undead is probably the best way to go about buffing them “fairly.” That way you also don’t have people passing them out like candy to their friends.  One of them maybe being a DOT, another being a slow, and another being a direct damage.  Spacing them out at levels 1, 4, 9, with dc’s varying between different saves (please not all fort saves) and have them scale with assassin levels as something like 15+class level + int mod

Alternatively since they’re rogues with less skill points, making them full BAB class could work if nothing else is touched or granting them the 6+ int skill points rangers get.  Still less than rogue levels, more than monks I guess, but still a narrow scope of skills.

[Alcoholic Squirrel (Birdman)]

I would also recommend the addition of more suitable Assassin spells.

Click here for the previous thread

I wanna see the Assassin meme become the Assassin dream

[Merry Munchkin]

The capstone skill for any assassin really ought to be the ability to instantly kill something -- after all, that is what an assassination is all about.  One shot, one kill.  If we can do a custom capstone feat for assassins at an appropriately high level, I would suggest a selectable combat feat that can be used X number of times a day, that would be a fortitude-save-or-die type of ability like quivering palm.  High level casters (via spells) and monks (via quivering palm) have that ability, so I have no idea why an assassin couldn't have it too.

I would also suggest a companion feat for Dead Eye that allows the addition of your Dex bonus to damage using melee weapons.  Rogues could use this feat too.

[Alcoholic Squirrel (Birdman)]

The capstone skill for any assassin really ought to be the ability to instantly kill something -- after all, that is what an assassination is all about.  One shot, one kill.

So this is actually how P&P Death Attack worked...



I'm pretty sure Assassin is the furthest from it's P&P version on the server. It's missing a lot of good spells, it's abilities do not do what it is set out to do, some very notable and important abilities are utterly missing.

[Fumbles]

Fixing Death Attack so it works with guns and giving them a couple ways to crank up the DC would go a long way to giving Assassin a niche as a gun based Rogue Prestige Class.

[FinalHeaven]

Fixing Death Attack so it works with guns and giving them a couple ways to crank up the DC would go a long way to giving Assassin a niche as a gun based Rogue Prestige Class.

I don't really see why the buff to the class should involve viability only for a specific build type but I guess if every assassin player receives a free rebuild to work in the Gun feats I can't argue against fairness.

[Fumbles]

Fixing Death Attack so it works with guns and giving them a couple ways to crank up the DC would go a long way to giving Assassin a niche as a gun based Rogue Prestige Class.

I don't really see why the buff to the class should involve viability only for a specific build type but I guess if every assassin player receives a free rebuild to work in the Gun feats I can't argue against fairness.

Feats to crank up the DC would help any Assassin. If the flagship class feature was enough to consider Assassin for it would make the class far more interesting and give more of its own character. More spells wouldn't hurt either.

[FinalHeaven]

Fixing Death Attack so it works with guns and giving them a couple ways to crank up the DC would go a long way to giving Assassin a niche as a gun based Rogue Prestige Class.

I don't really see why the buff to the class should involve viability only for a specific build type but I guess if every assassin player receives a free rebuild to work in the Gun feats I can't argue against fairness.

Feats to crank up the DC would help any Assassin. If the flagship class feature was enough to consider assassin for it would make the class far more interesting and give more of its own character. More spells wouldn't hurt either.

Oh, yeah, my bad.  I read that all as a jumble because I should be asleep.

I do agree with a way to pump up the Death Attack DC.  I suspect this would receive the same negative response as giving them HIPS, however, despite the fact they get it in PnP.

[MAB77]

Just so you know. We're not against the idea of giving HiPS to assassins, it is being considered. There was even some plans to give rogues a bit of a boost in the last HAK, but I ran out of time to complete those. Some revisions are further required, but those plans are not scrapped.

[FinalHeaven]

Just so you know. We're not against the idea of giving HiPS to assassins, it is being considered. There was even some plans to give rogues a bit of a boost in the last HAK, but I ran out of time to complete those. Some revisions are further required, but those plans are not scrapped.

Dreams really do come true (maybe).

The potential Rogue love is even almost slightly more exciting than HIPS for Assassin.

[Facilis]

Just so you know. We're not against the idea of giving HiPS to assassins, it is being considered. There was even some plans to give rogues a bit of a boost in the last HAK, but I ran out of time to complete those. Some revisions are further required, but those plans are not scrapped.

What about the spells Birdman has mention in his own thread?  Are those being considered mayhaps?

[Merry Munchkin]

Giving assassins the ability to spontaneously cast true strike with silent spell X times per day would be an interesting combo.  Definitely would make them more Assassin-y.

[MAB77]

To be considered, a spell must be listed in the official D&D 3.5 spell list for the class.
Here is the list for assassins: https://srd.dndtools.org/srd/magic/spells/classSpellLists/assassinSpells.html
They are already receiving every PotM supported spells they normally receive in PnP.

I do not mind having a look at what isn't implemented yet, but as far as I know, everything that would be somewhat useful and implementable is already there.

If you want to make suggestions on improving rogues, scour official D20 sources for roguish features. Though remember always that the combat system is hard coded, we end up with a lot of things we just can't implement.

[Alcoholic Squirrel (Birdman)]

Just so you know. We're not against the idea of giving HiPS to assassins, it is being considered. There was even some plans to give rogues a bit of a boost in the last HAK, but I ran out of time to complete those. Some revisions are further required, but those plans are not scrapped.

What about the spells Birdman has mention in his own thread?  Are those being considered mayhaps?

To be considered, a spell must be listed in the official D&D 3.5 spell list for the class.
Here is the list for assassins: https://srd.dndtools.org/srd/magic/spells/classSpellLists/assassinSpells.html
They are already receiving every PotM supported spells they normally receive in PnP.

I do not mind having a look at what isn't implemented yet, but as far as I know, everything that would be somewhat useful and implementable is already there.

Will post my suggestions list as a refresher all are taken from official 3.5 source material and should be in the link provided.

The Proposed Spell Additions

Critical Strike


Cursed Blade



Dead End



Distract Assailant



Iron Silence


Sniper's Eye



Sniper's Shot


Vulnerability



Wraith Strike

[EO]

We’ve considered those in the past but none can be implemented without hooking into the combat system, which affects performance

[Fumbles]

We’ve considered those in the past but none can be implemented without hooking into the combat system, which affects performance

Can fixing Death Attack so that it works with guns be doable? That alone would be pretty big in carving a niche out for Assassin.
Or a DC boosting feat? That also would be a big help.

[EO]

We’ve considered those in the past but none can be implemented without hooking into the combat system, which affects performance

Can fixing Death Attack so that it works with guns be doable? That alone would be pretty big in carving a niche out for Assassin.
Or a DC boosting feat? That also would be a big help.

DC also can’t be adjusted dynamically without hooking into combat.

Guns, maybe, but not sure we can fully recreate it.