Author Topic: Mist Camp, and what it's done  (Read 738 times)

FinalHeaven

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Re: Mist Camp, and what it's done
« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2024, 05:58:05 PM »
Not sure why we're back to the generalizations.  One might think that if players of the Mist Camp don't want to be lumped all into one category that the player base of Dementlieue would prefer the same courtesy. One group doesn't make or break the popularity of a Domain or other hub regardless of where it is.



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Re: Mist Camp, and what it's done
« Reply #51 on: October 30, 2024, 05:58:52 PM »
Being perfectly blunt all threads like this do is create a negative feedback loop.  It makes people see you advocating for things they like being taken away and not want to come.  new people dont come so more people dont come to Dementlieu.  New people dont come so current players stop logging in.  People arent logging in and theres no RP to be had so people dont come to Dementlieu.  People dont come to Dementlieu and threads like this are made for people to have less to force them to come to Dementlieu.  And the cycle repeats.

FinalHeaven

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Re: Mist Camp, and what it's done
« Reply #52 on: October 30, 2024, 06:06:46 PM »
It's possible to have this discussion without any of that happening, however, or it should be. I agree that this basic premise of this thread isn't the best but there is certainly room to discuss design decisions and philosophy as a whole.



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Re: Mist Camp, and what it's done
« Reply #53 on: October 30, 2024, 06:10:56 PM »
Being perfectly blunt all threads like this do is create a negative feedback loop.  It makes people see you advocating for things they like being taken away and not want to come.  new people dont come so more people dont come to Dementlieu.  New people dont come so current players stop logging in.  People arent logging in and theres no RP to be had so people dont come to Dementlieu.  People dont come to Dementlieu and threads like this are made for people to have less to force them to come to Dementlieu.  And the cycle repeats.

The issue is that its not just Dementlieu.
I get that people want to create a spotlight on their slice of the server but look at it as a whole.
Everywhere is suffering, Except one.
Im not saying that there is NO RP happening its that there is an easy way to generate more whilst fixing MANY other issues like Trade Economy, Crafting Economy, Level Gap, Overpowered and Overbearing PC's, THIS
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Greasus Goldtooth (Birdman)

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Re: Mist Camp, and what it's done
« Reply #54 on: October 30, 2024, 06:20:26 PM »
Give people more reasons to come to Dementlieu.  A bank is not the only thing that holds people to the Dyad.  As several people in this thread has said.  Instead of advocating for others to have less, advocate more for the RP you provide.  Try new things if the old ways arent working.  Threads like this do not shed an OOCly favorable light on wanting to come to Dementlieu because you dont like how others play.  I'd argue it drives them away.

I have literally said I want these people in my domain, in other domains. In any real domain. It's pretty disingenuous to suggest that I've been casting aspersions on other people's playstyles. I will not be strawmanned.

I don't think you're being honest when you say this.

Also the way it's worded is a strawman. Some character archetypes just don't mesh well with the setting; and there's nothing wrong with admitting that. The gif I posted earlier was my own character. I'd never have that floating around Port or any particular hub other than the Keep constantly.

A PC isn't lesser because they don't fit in well with the atmosphere it means they have to go somewhere else; and instead of telling someone their creativity is utterly wrong. The Keep of the Dyad exists as a welcome home for character concepts that don't necessarily fit.

The Keep being a 'filter' does not inherently have to be a bad thing it can be seen as a positive thing for everyone involved.

You are here arguing how you are open minded to different playstyles, but then here you are advocating taking away things from the one true home for these PCs and the PCs do consider it their home. If you want to change D'loo for the better, you have to be that change.

Taking things away from people you claim to respect and care about is not the answer.

Avela

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Re: Mist Camp, and what it's done
« Reply #55 on: October 30, 2024, 06:23:51 PM »
i'm not a huge fan of the mist camp myself, I don't like the emphasis on dungeoning that is often there because dungeoning makes my eyes glaze over faster than almost anything else 8/10 times. I don't think less of people who like it or dungeon a lot, it's just not the experience I'm looking for in potm. Though putting myself in the shoes of people who regularly hang there, I don't imagine sundowning the banks would make them want to come to Port or any other domains simply because that's where they keep their coin now. The mist camp is as popular as it is because it's a crossroads. It's the easiest way to organize dungeons there, and where high levels can shop for high level gear. I feel like people who are there are mostly there because they want to be and they like the atmosphere more than the other domains.

Dispanding the mist camp entirely would probably do more to put people back into domains (which I'm not entirely in favor of at this point in time) but pursuing that may just make the people who frequent the mist camp most often leave the server entirely and I'd really hate to see that, even if I don't play with the people it'd make leave that often.

I would love to see more activity in the other domains, I'm part of the the pcs in port trying to take part in events and eventually make my own and give people more of a reason to be interested in Port. I wholeheartedly agree that it's really difficult to foster the kind of population Vallaki or the Mist Camp has on player initiative alone, I'm not convinced this would do that.
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hobbknacass

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Re: Mist Camp, and what it's done
« Reply #56 on: October 30, 2024, 06:26:03 PM »
From my personal view, I think that the issue with Mist Camp is that, currently, it exists as 'Dungeon? Dungeon. Wasps? Wasps.' I want people to do more than just dungeon 24/7 until they get red capped, then either play another game or hop on another character until that one is also red capped. I have seen this happen many times. I know some people that stay in Vallak 24/7 because there's always something going on, they don't have to do anything else because it's extremely active. With Mist Camp, it encourages people to just dungeon in the high level areas, come back to sell their stuff and repeat.

RP can happen anywhere, and I've seen some good RP happen at Mist Camp so I'm not dogging on the RP. What I'm saying is that the atmosphere of Mist Camp doesn't feel like Ravenloft, it feels like Dungeonloft. Every domain in our current palette is great. And I can tell we have Devs and DMs that care about them too, but it saddens me to see that the real domains except for Barovia/Vallaki get minimal RP.

Mist Camp hurts the other domains, in my eyes, and unless it gets more things to make it more like a custom domain or sunset some things from it, if the intention is to make it a hub, I can respect adding more to it, like guards, laws and such but I promise that if that happens players will be mad that there's now rules at Mist Camp.

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Re: Mist Camp, and what it's done
« Reply #57 on: October 30, 2024, 06:27:07 PM »
just a quick fyi to the OP's suggestion to sunset the MC bank.

from my experience as someone who sells a lot of expensive items in the MC, most people (90%+) who hang out there still store their coin in Port since there is less of a fee.
So most of the foot traffic you are hoping to gain from sunsetting the bank is already happening, it's just not very meaningful or drives engagement within Dementlieu.

Limine

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Re: Mist Camp, and what it's done
« Reply #58 on: October 30, 2024, 06:29:26 PM »
Trying to spread that success elsewhere should be the goal, imo.

This is more or less my stance.

I don't really think there's anything wrong with Mist Camp or how the people who occupy it want to play. I go there from time to time for one reason or another, it's fine. It's not for me, but that's the way things go. Which is exactly why I don't think we can crucify anyone for how they want to play. Port is a -very- selective style of playing and RP that I can completely understand why we aren't just oozing players like Vallaki is. Everyone is different and there's no reason to make them feel bad for it.

Now, I will say what I believe to be a fairly relevant problem that plagues Port-a-Lucine these days. Everyone likes to throw on the nostalgia glasses and reminisce about "the good ol' days" of Port, glorify the same handful of special case players, and forget about everyone else. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed those times too, but things change. I do my very best to try and provide different ways for people that want to involve themselves in the setting a way to do so. Will it work all the time? No, but I'm happy when it does. Is it the same caliber as what some players could offer in the past? Probably not, but I'm doing my best with what I've got. Beating around the same old bush expecting new and great things to come to you just isn't the move. If you want something to happen, make it happen.

This, entirely. I cosign, and add my own thoughts:

I feel that people are being very nostalgic and remembering incorrectly what made Dementlieu so fun and active in the past. It wasn't just 1 player, or a few players, it wasn't the DMs. The DMs actually came after the players. They always come after the players. The players, all of them and their roleplay, is what made it work.

The bank didn't do anything to Dementlieu. Too many of the players that loved Dementlieu and made it what it is moved on, closed characters, or quit. It happens. If people want to play in Dementlieu, people will play there. It will take a concerted effort of many players to get it to a more active place. It's not complicated math.

And, finally, this notion that the terraces was this incredible, elite place for roleplay is just misremembering the past. The terraces were just like the Mist Camp and the Outskirts. And when there was no bank in the Mist Camp, people would run through the terraces in ridiculous outfits and run back out from the bank. No stopping, no RPing. The terraces were not that fun. It's where we went when we had nothing to do, or to gather to go dungeon, just like the Mist Camp. We all stood around and MAYBE talked about the weather. Then we'd disperse to find something better to do. The roleplay that was awesome was almost always pre-arranged or taken elsewhere - the sand banks, the forest, coffee houses, the theater, faction offices, etc. If we had the rentals back then, they would have seen use and it wouldn't have hurt RP.

I don't see the point of trying to pinpoint tiny little mechanical changes and blame them for not having the roleplay you want. I think we need to accept that things change and try to create new roleplay, meet new people, try and write new stories.

Attacking the Mist Camp isn't going to help that in any way. And, to be honest, I fail to see how a thread TITLED as an attack on the Mist Camp can possibly meet the staff's metric of being respectful & not attacking people's style of roleplay.
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apeppertoo

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Re: Mist Camp, and what it's done
« Reply #59 on: October 30, 2024, 06:32:27 PM »
I literally do not care if I am personally popular. I think the server will be better off with my suggested design decision, even if only incrementally so. That's what matters to me. I'm not going to be blackmailed with vibes and phantom negative feedback loops. Yes, I am advocating taking a convenience away. Yes, I expect this would make a lot of people resentful. You're not telling me anything I do not already know, and your advice ("just 'provide RP' and RPers will magically flock to the domain" and "stop making threads") is at this point heard and unwelcome.

I don't think you're being honest when you say this.

Then why did you type all the rest of that? I'm certainly not going to read it. Call me a liar and move on. I'll be sure to clear future posts with your psychic analyzer.

just a quick fyi to the OP's suggestion to sunset the MC bank.

from my experience as someone who sells a lot of expensive items in the MC, most people (90%+) who hang out there still store their coin in Port since there is less of a fee.
So most of the foot traffic you are hoping to gain from sunsetting the bank is already happening, it's just not very meaningful or drives engagement within Dementlieu.

Then there's no reason not to do it, is there?
« Last Edit: October 30, 2024, 06:42:38 PM by apeppertoo »
Mariah Parsons

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Re: Mist Camp, and what it's done
« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2024, 06:41:43 PM »
The Mist Camp is not a /style of roleplay/ it is a location that exists on the module that due to the /crossroads/ nature of it, is where people congregate. There is nothing special about it. The place literally has /no theme/ on a roleplay server. Roleplay is all about theme!

I guarantee the Mist Camp has made more people quit the server then retained. There's a reason this conversation keeps coming up. Vallaki is the strongest part of the module and the Camp is the weakest. That isn't attacking the players within these locations. A lot of roleplay is based on story-building within a setting and the camp is extremely formless and grey.

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Re: Mist Camp, and what it's done
« Reply #61 on: October 30, 2024, 06:44:26 PM »
I literally do not care if I am personally popular. I think the server will be better off with my suggested design decision, even if only incrementally so. That's what matters to me. I'm not going to be blackmailed with vibes and phantom negative feedback loops. Yes, I am advocating taking a convenience away. Yes, I expect this would make a lot of people resentful. You're not telling me anything I do not already know, and your advice ("just 'provide RP' and RPers will magically flock to the domain" and "stop making threads") is at this point heard and unwelcome.

I don't think you're being honest when you say this.

Then why did you type all the rest of that? I'm certainly not going to read it. Call me a liar and move on. I'll be sure to clear future posts with your psychic analyzer.

Not any real need for that.
But there is a STRONG point here.
These posts have all happened before, we all know that provide RP and Magic happens.
It hasn't worked. Its VERY clear that this way hasn't worked, its been years of it not working.
What has not been tried is making the starting area, a STARTING area.

bloodandsoil

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Re: Mist Camp, and what it's done
« Reply #62 on: October 30, 2024, 06:55:11 PM »
Give people more reasons to come to Dementlieu.  A bank is not the only thing that holds people to the Dyad.  As several people in this thread has said.  Instead of advocating for others to have less, advocate more for the RP you provide.  Try new things if the old ways arent working.  Threads like this do not shed an OOCly favorable light on wanting to come to Dementlieu because you dont like how others play.  I'd argue it drives them away.

I have literally said I want these people in my domain, in other domains. In any real domain. It's pretty disingenuous to suggest that I've been casting aspersions on other people's playstyles. I will not be strawmanned.

I don't think you're being honest when you say this.

Also the way it's worded is a strawman. Some character archetypes just don't mesh well with the setting; and there's nothing wrong with admitting that. The gif I posted earlier was my own character. I'd never have that floating around Port or any particular hub other than the Keep constantly.

A PC isn't lesser because they don't fit in well with the atmosphere it means they have to go somewhere else; and instead of telling someone their creativity is utterly wrong. The Keep of the Dyad exists as a welcome home for character concepts that don't necessarily fit.

The Keep being a 'filter' does not inherently have to be a bad thing it can be seen as a positive thing for everyone involved.

You are here arguing how you are open minded to different playstyles, but then here you are advocating taking away things from the one true home for these PCs and the PCs do consider it their home. If you want to change D'loo for the better, you have to be that change.

Taking things away from people you claim to respect and care about is not the answer.

The Mist Camp was a welcome home for certain character types long before the Keep popped up there. I was a little shocked when I logged on for the first time after a long break and found a gigantic building structure with proper inn rooms and a bank and even item storage.
I see some of the same commenters who loudly want to keep the Keep at mist camp but then on the other hand advocate for change in areas like the vistani camp in Vallaki or change like self-service insta-portals from the new character that go to the other hubs. Seems like backwards to me!

Moshimo

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Re: Mist Camp, and what it's done
« Reply #63 on: October 30, 2024, 06:58:25 PM »
The player base of Dementlieu is what keeps people out of Dementlieu by just not logging in because they think they wont find any RP or by loudly advocating for other players to have less of what they enjoy in game.

The player base of Dementlieu is what keeps people out of Dementlieu by just not logging in because they think they wont find any RP or by loudly advocating for other players to have less of what they enjoy in game.

Words are not enough to express how correct these statements are.

I would appreciate not being generalized.

I log in when I am able and I make time for those that ask. I go out of my way to ensure that anyone who wants to involve themselves in the domain has a comfortable time doing so. What I am not doing is attempting to force or guilt anyone into playing in my preferred domain. It does not bother me at all to see other people have fun elsewhere, in fact, I enjoy seeing it. I would never want to take away something that so many people enjoy simply for my own benefit. My main goal when playing this game is to try and pass down the same experiences that were given to me when I was fresh off the boat. The experiences that helped cultivate my love for the server. Instead of wishing for what was or what could be, I try to focus on what can be, and I encourage everyone to do the same. So please, offer me the same respect I am trying to offer everyone else.
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Greasus Goldtooth (Birdman)

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Re: Mist Camp, and what it's done
« Reply #64 on: October 30, 2024, 07:07:14 PM »
The Mist Camp was a welcome home for certain character types long before the Keep popped up there. I was a little shocked when I logged on for the first time after a long break and found a gigantic building structure with proper inn rooms and a bank and even item storage.

and those people just didn't deserve nice things?

I see some of the same commenters who loudly want to keep the Keep at mist camp but then on the other hand advocate for change in areas like the vistani camp in Vallaki or change like self-service insta-portals from the new character that go to the other hubs. Seems like backwards to me!

The two topics aren't the same? Why are you trying to drag another thread into this one? The other thread you are referring to didn't advocate for change for either of these places merely requesting the ability to start somewhere else for convenience.

This thread is asking for a change to the Keep of the Dyad that isn't a quality of life change. What is requested is actually the opposite a change intended to make things less convenient for players and trying to force them into zones where their PCs may not really fit in well in the first place. All of this so that way RP can be brought to the area instead of taking an initiative and creating the RP themselves.

Alalaurealarialelia

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Re: Mist Camp, and what it's done
« Reply #65 on: October 30, 2024, 07:34:28 PM »
Nah, Apeppertoo, you are just advocating for changes that would benefit you personally: Buff sorc, remove a place I don't care about so people are forced to play in my favourite place.

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Re: Mist Camp, and what it's done
« Reply #66 on: October 30, 2024, 07:51:33 PM »
Locked this thread since things have taken a personal turn and are off-topic. Let’s be excellent to each other even in disagreements please.