New Suggestion: Story DMs + Official DMs

[Destinysdesire]

So, having played on a few servers, there is a suggestion I would like to put forward. Namely as the current issue of never having enough DMs is an issue, Port is ESPECIALLY feeling the lack of love with plots that haven't truly moved since January of 2023. So here is a suggestion.


1. Story DMs:

These DMs are there for ONE purpose only, to tell stories, they further plots but cannot make realm changing events without prior approval of a full DM. They do not enforce rules, they do not handle @LFDM issues, they cannot handle mechanical changes for players without prior approval, they are solely there to tell stories and breath life into the realm. These require FAR less vetting and oversight, but can be watched to eventually be offered FULL DM status


2. Official DMs: These are the ones fully vetted and approved, and handle the current DM status work as it is currently.


This change would allow a lighter application to enable stories rather then the massive application to be an Official DM. The Official application is seen as extremely intrusive, hard, and 1 in 10 make it to the end and are approved, this would even add another step to proving to the Official DMs that the Story DM could make a good DM.

Thanks for the Consideration.

[Wilkins1952]

I agree with this in concept though it should be as has been discussed before

Full DMs who can do everything

Admin DMs that can do admin work. This was something that MAB said was coming but nothing has been said on it for some time so an update on when we can expect this and timeframe for implemenetation would be nice

[hobbknacass]

I agree with this in concept though it should be as has been discussed before

Full DMs who can do everything

Admin DMs that can do admin work. This was something that MAB said was coming but nothing has been said on it for some time so an update on when we can expect this and timeframe for implemenetation would be nice

I am actually still wondering about the Admin DM as well, it'd be nice to see a timeframe for it, yes. From my perspective if there wasn't so much administrative work, I think that we'd actually see a lot more DM activity in game, I may be wrong, but that's just my perspective.

[Alcoholic Squirrel (Birdman)]

This would be a good idea.

[FinalHeaven]

Bad idea to have less vetting on a Story DM role even with the caveat of "no realm changing events".  A lot of stories can easily be ruined or affected in other poor ways by someone not properly equipped to parse the nuances of a plot or lacking understanding of the state of NPC relevance to past character actions, among other things.

The idea of an "Admin" role is often suggested but I expect this thread to be met with the same response/resistance as those that came before it, namely that people can just apply for the regular DM role or to affect things to a lesser extent the AMPC option.

[Hemolymph]

I vaguely remember a thread like this one from some time ago. The best thing that can come out of threads like this is people with the time and energy to be a DM applying to be one straight up, imo.

[Cyber Viking]

This does seem like a good idea and there would be a nice division of labour as it were for DMs.
Honestly as someone who is terrible with the toolset id apply for Admin DM as i wouldnt have the skills to be a Story DM or Full DM.

[Lightweaver]

Outside of the request tools being codified into a widget, it will require the same amount of vetting due to access to module and information. It's easier to take on DMs that are trusted to do everything than not because it merely shifts the division of labor and someone will have to monitor their responsible use of access. I believe the standards should remain as they are to reduce situations where it could be abused.

It's really all or nothing outside of having tools like the Community Council does to unlock subraces.

[Wilkins1952]

Outside of the request tools being codified into a widget, it will require the same amount of vetting due to access to module and information. It's easier to take on DMs that are trusted to do everything than not because it merely shifts the division of labor and someone will have to monitor their responsible use of access. I believe the standards should remain as they are to reduce situations where it could be abused.

It's really all or nothing outside of having tools like the Community Council does to unlock subraces.

While this may be the case, The fact of the matter is there are people that will happily assist with admin things such as creating items and fixing bugs that don't want to be involved in plot creation and have to lose their playtime on the server in any significant area. Facilitating this will allow for more DMs to focus on telling stories than doing trivial Admin work.

[BraveSirRobin]

Outside of the request tools being codified into a widget, it will require the same amount of vetting due to access to module and information. It's easier to take on DMs that are trusted to do everything than not because it merely shifts the division of labor and someone will have to monitor their responsible use of access. I believe the standards should remain as they are to reduce situations where it could be abused.

It's really all or nothing outside of having tools like the Community Council does to unlock subraces.

While this may be the case, The fact of the matter is there are people that will happily assist with admin things such as creating items and fixing bugs that don't want to be involved in plot creation and have to lose their playtime on the server in any significant area. Facilitating this will allow for more DMs to focus on telling stories than doing trivial Admin work.

Part of the issue, as I'd see it, is that applications to become a DM are less about your ability to do a task, and more about the quality of your character; If someone was already of a nature that they could trust them to not abuse power, metagame information, or otherwise misuse their position -- Then they could just already apply and become a normal, full DM.

Even if you pretend they won't have access to the DM Forums properly, they still have the ability to see and engage with the live server and then someone else is going to have to go through and observe and oversee them. While I'm not positive the amount of scripted tracking and security they have against DM Activity, I doubt there isn't as much as there is about player activity; So you have to implement entirely new security systems to log their actions with more scrutiny, I imagine, because the gist of the idea here seems to be:

Players, but with DM Client Powers. If they were already of the character, they could just be DMs, so you're lowering the bar, and lowering the bar but increasing power requires oversight.

[Wilkins1952]

Outside of the request tools being codified into a widget, it will require the same amount of vetting due to access to module and information. It's easier to take on DMs that are trusted to do everything than not because it merely shifts the division of labor and someone will have to monitor their responsible use of access. I believe the standards should remain as they are to reduce situations where it could be abused.

It's really all or nothing outside of having tools like the Community Council does to unlock subraces.

While this may be the case, The fact of the matter is there are people that will happily assist with admin things such as creating items and fixing bugs that don't want to be involved in plot creation and have to lose their playtime on the server in any significant area. Facilitating this will allow for more DMs to focus on telling stories than doing trivial Admin work.

Part of the issue, as I'd see it, is that applications to become a DM are less about your ability to do a task, and more about the quality of your character; If someone was already of a nature that they could trust them to not abuse power, metagame information, or otherwise misuse their position -- Then they could just already apply and become a normal, full DM.

Even if you pretend they won't have access to the DM Forums properly, they still have the ability to see and engage with the live server and then someone else is going to have to go through and observe and oversee them. While I'm not positive the amount of scripted tracking and security they have against DM Activity, I doubt there isn't as much as there is about player activity; So you have to implement entirely new security systems to log their actions with more scrutiny, I imagine, because the gist of the idea here seems to be:

Players, but with DM Client Powers. If they were already of the character, they could just be DMs, so you're lowering the bar, and lowering the bar but increasing power requires oversight.

The distinction is "Full" DMs are required to give up their PCs to be a DM, Some people don't want to do that. Removing the ability they have to interact with the story but still do DM jobs would mean that they can keep their PCs and continue to play players side. I'd happily help deal with Generic requests but not if it meant that my entire playerside existance had to disappear.

[OccamsClub]

The distinction is "Full" DMs are required to give up their PCs to be a DM, Some people don't want to do that. Removing the ability they have to interact with the story but still do DM jobs would mean that they can keep their PCs and continue to play players side. I'd happily help deal with Generic requests but not if it meant that my entire playerside existance had to disappear.

Is this true? Feels like it's a big issue to have DMs disconnected from the player experience like that.

[bloodless]

DMs can play but they are restricted from conflict, which precludes most factions and many other things besides. It doesn't leave you with nothing at all, mind, but it is very limiting if you're used to really getting stuck in the thick of things.

[DM Brimstone]

DMs can play but they are restricted from conflict, which precludes most factions and many other things besides. It doesn't leave you with nothing at all, mind, but it is very limiting if you're used to really getting stuck in the thick of things.

Minor correction here just so everyone is on the same page: DMs cannot join any faction, not most. Other than that, Bloodless is correct.

[Cyber Viking]

Even if there were divisions of labour to admin story and full. The rules around the DM staus should still be the same with regards to being in factions.

Story and full dms kind of already exist.
The addition of an admin DM one that handles generic requests, apps, and conflicts would free up the other DMs.

Customer Service DMs would be the first point of call for player issues and the funnel to the DMs where they make the posts and do the work for the others to review.

[BraveSirRobin]

Outside of the request tools being codified into a widget, it will require the same amount of vetting due to access to module and information. It's easier to take on DMs that are trusted to do everything than not because it merely shifts the division of labor and someone will have to monitor their responsible use of access. I believe the standards should remain as they are to reduce situations where it could be abused.

It's really all or nothing outside of having tools like the Community Council does to unlock subraces.

While this may be the case, The fact of the matter is there are people that will happily assist with admin things such as creating items and fixing bugs that don't want to be involved in plot creation and have to lose their playtime on the server in any significant area. Facilitating this will allow for more DMs to focus on telling stories than doing trivial Admin work.

Part of the issue, as I'd see it, is that applications to become a DM are less about your ability to do a task, and more about the quality of your character; If someone was already of a nature that they could trust them to not abuse power, metagame information, or otherwise misuse their position -- Then they could just already apply and become a normal, full DM.

Even if you pretend they won't have access to the DM Forums properly, they still have the ability to see and engage with the live server and then someone else is going to have to go through and observe and oversee them. While I'm not positive the amount of scripted tracking and security they have against DM Activity, I doubt there isn't as much as there is about player activity; So you have to implement entirely new security systems to log their actions with more scrutiny, I imagine, because the gist of the idea here seems to be:

Players, but with DM Client Powers. If they were already of the character, they could just be DMs, so you're lowering the bar, and lowering the bar but increasing power requires oversight.

The distinction is "Full" DMs are required to give up their PCs to be a DM, Some people don't want to do that. Removing the ability they have to interact with the story but still do DM jobs would mean that they can keep their PCs and continue to play players side. I'd happily help deal with Generic requests but not if it meant that my entire playerside existance had to disappear.

Idk, while true, it doesn't address the core issue of the moral character of a player, themselves, being the item of question when it regards being a DM. I'm not sure there are as many people who would otherwise be a DM, but they want to be a Vardo, or an Ezrite, or whatever; As, being a DM, they could better interact with their preferred factions in more depth and create more roleplay for the faction members of the factions they enjoyed, if that makes sense.

if there are people who could qualify as a DM, but choose to not be one for wishing to enjoy the player experience, then I guess idk? But it's fairly hard to measure that outside of anecdote. I still think my initial concerns remain and lean towards my speculation being a reason as to why it wouldn't work, but ... I mean, it could go either way. Only the Staff can really decide if they want to do something like that. Just I, as a player, don't think it would work.

[RedMoney]

The problem is that there isn't a good way to lower the qualification standards of a DM just because they are doing specialized or specific types of work. Calling it a story DM or Admin DM or w/e shouldn't lower the bar, so there's no point in making up different names.