New In Game System - Messengers/RPS

[hobbknacass]

This is something I've thought about for a while, but I think the addition of a proper messaging system through the in game world would be a nice addition. What I mean by this, is using the actual in game letter system as it's intended, with the help of NPCs, not just PCs. For those that don't know to what I refer, I mean that when you write on a piece of paper, then seal it using a signet ring, it becomes a proper letter than one can open, and it will then say 'This letter's seal has been broken'. I think there could be an interesting way to get NPCs involved in this. Introducing, the Ravenloft Postal Service (RPS).

By allowing certain NPCs an option to 'deliver' letters, this operating as, a player approaches an NPC with an already sealed letter, types out the desired PC's exact name or a place, and 'sends' them a letter by paying a set fee or a fee based on the letter's characters. The 'sending' process I would suggest operates one of two ways,

1. The NPC sends this letter to a 'pool' of letters held by certain NPCs, anyone can pick up their letters from any one of these NPCs. These NPCs would be managers of inns, banks, and certain government officials for factions. Guards of certain areas have access to certain pools, if letters are sent to a place.
2. The letter goes directly to the inventory of the desired player after a set period of time, not /actual/ days, but maybe an hour or more.

The reason I suggest this is not as a, 'THIS SHOULD BE ADDED IN /NOW/', but more as a, 'Hey, here's an idea,'. I know barely anything about NWN scripts, I've looked at it and I mainly just go 'Ah yes... there is code here.', so take this with a grain of salt, I'm not sure if it'd even be possible. I just notice that, while sending letters over the forums is quick and easy, and in my opinion a great way of doing it, most people still just tend to either put in tells or a discord message saying, "Hey, you got a letter that basically explains X,Y and Z.", which I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but INSTANT communication like that is simply not realistic, even if you have some PCs that RP handing off a letter to their familiar which I think is still more realistic than just meditating for a moment as you type a tell.

Not to say that I think it should be breaking the rules to send tells or anything. (Though it is breaking the rules to discuss IC conflicts as they are developing but meh.), but I think it would incentivize more RP through an in game letter system. I've asked a few PCs to deliver letters for me before, and I've seen others do it as well, it leads to great RP. Especially if it's a letter that guards shouldn't read and your messenger gets arrested. But now imagine that guards could potentially just go to your mail box as well, (with certain permissions) and be like "HOLY COW. This guy was in X cult and was summoning fish people to attack Vallaki! Very evil guy!" [In Balok]. Or even better, someone witnesses you getting a letter, then they try to ask you what it was about etc. I think it'd be a good RP thing!

I think also it'd be neat if certain factions could get their letters quicker and for no fee, like guards who need messages quickly, or the Red Vardo because... they're the Red Vardo.

Better yet, as I was typing this I also had the thought of actual DELIVERIES, because PCs also do that sometimes. Hire an NPC to SEND ITEMS to other players, granted that would be likely more difficult to add in, but no less interesting! Same process and all!

[FinalHeaven]

Similar systems work on other servers so the idea itself is possible.  Personally I'm for anything that moves IC correspondence off of the impenetrable shield that is the forums.

[Evendur]

If we could have this it would be an awesome addition indeed.

However I believe the Dev team has declined this in the past because it would require a database which they want to avoid for performance reasons.
My suggestion would be to try this as a POC and then see how the performance looks on the test server, if that is indeed the reason why it was declined in the past.

[Wilkins1952]

I like this idea in theory though it would need to be unintrusive on the side of both players involved. Along with that there are a few limitations to what can be sent with ingame functionality (Biggest thing that comes to mind is a lack of images) That the forum PM has. It shouldn't replace that but it would be nice to see it as an addition

[Maiyannah]

I argued for a diagetic in-game letters system in the past but there was no interest in its implementation on the dev side at that time.

[zDark Shadowz]

As long as it's not a halfling messenger delivering kicks to the groin before warping off.

[Di Infernis]

As long as it's not a halfling messenger delivering kicks to the groin before warping off.

Your right , it should be forest gnome!

[Ervin267]

As long as it's not a halfling messenger delivering kicks to the groin before warping off.

Gavour Greattop behavior.
Kicks you and burns a jaunt scroll.

[myrddraal]

People have suggested different methods of letter delivery in the past and just been told a hard no because "the forum is easier and its the way it is."  Personally I have a huge distaste for the way letters work as they are now.  They are non intercept-able.  They are instantaneously received.  You cannot police them.  Frankly you may as well be able to just DM people on discord and have it be IC.  I know Areltih's NPC courier system is abusable to find people you are trying to PVP so that is something people want to avoid implimenting.

How exactly you fix a letter system when your courier / recipient might be on play times opposite of yours without the current system, idk.  It would be more accurate and theme appropriate for mail not to be instantly delivered, especially across domains, especially when a true mail system would also likely be monitored by the garda / gendarme and in seedier places probably the red vardo which would mean trusted PC couriers would have actual value, but it is incredibly inconvenient.

[Chadyo]

I remember one moment in Arelith where a rejection to a date was send by messenger, was quite the akward moment. I'm not sure how you would implement this however as we can't have little angels flying around in Ravenloft. It would have to be locals arriving with a message, it works in the high fantasy settings but I don't think it works in gothic horror settings.

A few players do play messengers, and so far every decision made by the team has always steered towards people doing these jobs rather then replacing them with systems. Which can be impractical. It's the same reason why we don't have any shop systems for players to set up their shops that don't require attending. Though I would consider it an improvement as selling wares is fun.

I like the idea, but I don't know how to see it implemented into a gothic horror setting, and the isolation of the dread domains.

[MAB77]

A few points on this.

1) I will not delve much into the technical limitations we face for the implementation of such system, but it would probably require an external database pluggin to keep trak of messages to deliver to offline players. We're not ready to go in that direction at this time.

2) We won't stop players from communicating with each other in private messages on Discord or the Forums. We can only hope that there are used legitimately but can't monitor that in any effective way or form short of disabling private messages, which we obviously won't do since OOC communication is important too. It is also a fact that the forum allows greater flexibility as to what could be sent. So that avenue will remain regardless of the eventual addition or not of a messenging system.

3) That there is no way to intercept messages through the forum is moot. Players will not trust sensible information to an automatic system that can be randomly intercepted anyway. The most logical approach remains to hire a PC courrier whom may, or not, prove to be reliable. Make sure to seal your letters, so the recipient would know if it's been tampered with if delivered.

4) The current in-game message-boards are a viable alternative to leave messages for others. I've seen it used that way with cyphers and coded language to great effect.

5) As part of important plots, you can hire the vistani to deliver your messages with DM interventions.

[Ervin267]

2) We won't stop players from communicating with each other in private messages on Discord or the Forums. We can only hope that there are used legitimately but can't monitor that in any effective way or form short of disabling private messages, which we obviously won't do since OOC communication is important too. It is also a fact that the forum allows greater flexibility as to what could be sent. So that avenue will remain regardless of the eventual addition or not of a messenging system.

It is worth mentioning that as the rules stand at the current moment, the forums are the only means of IC communication through the messages outside of in-game. Discord is unfortunately not a valid means of getting IC information but I could understand it and I would honestly prefer it this way.

4) The current in-game message-boards are a viable alternative to leave messages for others. I've seen it used that way with cyphers and coded language to great effect.

I love this idea.

[myrddraal]

The problem with the current system is that you basically can abuse it if you really want trying to gank people chatting in voice and just sending them a forum letter saying “theyre here come.” And then it’s perfectly legitimate to just gank them while you’re already on your way.  There’s no point where you need to stop to talk to any npc to get your mail.  You literally might as well just allow people to coordinate in voice chat and have it be ic.  I can spy on someone and right letters in real time and have the gank squad come murder someone and it’s legit because forum messages are the equivalent of aiming someone.

I don’t personally use them that way but it has been done before and will keep being done as long as it’s “within the rules.”

[Ervin267]

I remember one moment in Arelith where a rejection to a date was send by messenger, was quite the akward moment. I'm not sure how you would implement this however as we can't have little angels flying around in Ravenloft. It would have to be locals arriving with a message, it works in the high fantasy settings but I don't think it works in gothic horror settings.

We could have falconer NPCs that can deal with IC messages. They will then have their Raven or Falcon appear for interception on occasion going to their recipient. I mean, it's a bird... You wouldn't even have to kill it to intercept it.

[MAB77]

Only the Vistani can reliably cross the Mists. There is no way a bird can know how to reach another domain. Even within the Core they would not be safe from the dark powers deciding they end up elsewhere. Falcons would have to be restricted for messages in a same domain.

[FinalHeaven]

Only the Vistani can reliably cross the Mists. There is no way a bird can know how to reach another domain. Even within the Core they would not be safe from the dark powers deciding they end up elsewhere. Falcons would have to be restricted for messages in a same domain.

Wizards, Rangers, Druids, and Sorcerers in shambles.

But I agree players shouldn't be making these choices for themselves.

You do somewhat provide a solution though and that is that a system being lore compliant could simply involve the Vistani.

[MAB77]

Yes but the price for their services would have to be prohibitive. They would not wish to take the role of messengers in earnest all the time. When they accept such commission it is with ulterior motives for their own benefit and the message you carry is best be really important. I really can't see the Vistani being used in a systemic manner for running messages.

More logical would be the possibility of leaving letters for specific individuals with innkeepers but engine limitations prevents it at this time.

[William Roberts]

Body recovery has established the precedent of scrying across domains.

Therefore, a system such as the following could be "justifiable" (if desired):

1. Sender goes to a Vistani at point A and pays fee to send message.

2. Vistani at point B scries message at point A and is responsible for dispatching to Receiver.

This messaging system is not something I think is needed, but it's a way of implementing one without requiring Mist travel.

[Flat Cap]

I like using players to deliver messages. Opens up opportunities for RP for more people as there's an element of the unknown there. For the rest, I think the forums are fine.

[Merry Munchkin]

Body recovery has established the precedent of scrying across domains.

Therefore, a system such as the following could be "justifiable" (if desired):

1. Sender goes to a Vistani at point A and pays fee to send message.

2. Vistani at point B scries message at point A and is responsible for dispatching to Receiver.

This messaging system is not something I think is needed, but it's a way of implementing one without requiring Mist travel.

VT&T --- Vistani Televison & Telepathy  "We can see things for you and send things for you"

[Misan]

Body recovery has established the precedent of scrying across domains.

Therefore, a system such as the following could be "justifiable" (if desired):

1. Sender goes to a Vistani at point A and pays fee to send message.

2. Vistani at point B scries message at point A and is responsible for dispatching to Receiver.

This messaging system is not something I think is needed, but it's a way of implementing one without requiring Mist travel.

And for those that do not want to be able to receive these messages, a token could be purchased from the Vistani that allows the person to hear the messages in the first place. Opting into the system this way would be preferable.

[MAB77]

Scrying requires the target to be online to work. You can't use the same system to send a message to a player that is offline, which would be the main point of such system to begin with. If the player is also on, you only need to coordinate oocly through tells to meet in-game.

[Maffa]

Why are you trying to substitute an out-of-game system whose only missing feature is the possibility of intercepting messages with an in-game system that among the several missing features will also lack the possibility of intercepting messages?

[Mischa Bratu]

you only need to coordinate oocly through tells to meet in-game.

Why OOC though?

[Maiyannah]

Letter post systems exist that are older than the vault.

To wit: https://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn1/prefab/creature/mail-service