Debate Transcript — 22nd June, 779 ⚜

[bunnie]

The following transcript is printed and distributed throughout Port-à-Lucine, namely to those who expressed interest in reading it.

A Night of Debate
Culture: Should it be supported by the State?

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As transcribed by Dr. Rosalie Épineux

[bunnie]

Opening Statements

Mlle. Mariah Parsons Esquire

Ladies and gentlemen, esteemed guests, dear friends, and honoured participants. Welcome to this evening's debate on a matter of great importance to the Serene Republic. As we gather here overlooking the vibrant heart of Port-à-Lucine, we're struck by the achievement wrought by Dementlieuse culture. This city is a beacon of artistic achievement – a testament to the creativity and passion of its peoples. Still, as ever, we stand at a crossroad between tradition and progress. And so we ask the question: what is the role of the state in nurturing this cultural heritage? We're joined tonight by a diverse array of voices - gentry and commoners, locals and foreigners, united by a shared interest in the future of the Serene Republic. As your host it is an honour to facilitate this discussion, and it would not be possible were it not for the partnership of Doctoresse Rosalie Épineux. It's my intent that each viewpoint is heard and respected. I encourage our participants to engage in good faith even if the subject gets passionate. I will open the floor by issuing a question. We will go round the table, in turn. Now... The Serene Republic is rightly considered the jewel of culture in the Core. From language to art, cuisine to fashion, we are emulated and admired. Sieur Dorian, if you please – how do you envision the ideal relationship between the State and the promotion of Dementlieuse culture?

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Sieur Dorian de Sauvre Chevalier de l'Ordre de l'Abondance Sereine

As culture is by its nature something organic, the role of the State is somewhat akin to that of gardener – curating, encouraging, and indeed planning for the future. Growth without direction is acceptable when it produces wild flowers.. Yet left untamed, a field can also grow full of weeds. Thus, a wise gardener plants seeds to encourage certain types of growth. This I see as a potent metaphor for the role of the State. Our laws encourage all citizens to speak freely, up to a point; slander and obscenity don't have a place in the public discourse. These are the wild weeds that must be pruned. What other agent can act as such a gardener as the Cultural Advisor?

Dame Madeleine de Sauvre House de Sauvre

I believe the state should have a unified vision for culture; working closely with artists, scholars, and institutions. The state should provide support and funding for cultural projects, including grants for artists, subsidies for museums, and investment in cultural festivals. Making culture accessible to all citizens should be a priority, with cultural education in schools and public spaces to foster a well-informed and enlightened populace. Encouraging innovation while preserving tradition would create a dynamic cultural landscape. Cultural diplomacy should enhance our global reputation through exchanges, exhibitions, and performances. Engaging local communities in cultural initiatives is essential, with the state supporting projects from various economic backgrounds to build a stronger sense of community and shared identity. I will curtail my desire to be long w-winded, and yield the floor to the Maître.

Maître Emeric Desrosiers House Desrosiers

One must be, of course, reminded of the goals of the great Leon when he founded our blessed Republic: The order he set, with those who hold the inclination, aptitude and capacity to lead the Republic being raised to nobility, with a duty being placed upon them to both lead and set a good example. Arts and culture are one of the most effective means by which such example is set to the commons, so they may share in the Republic's light. The question, for one who understands the duty placed upon the gentry, is not should the state intervene in culture. It is how could it not? Now, freedom of thought and word, within limits as Sieur Dorian has stayed, is a Leonic principle. Only subversive and slanderous works deserve censor. However the influx of so many foreigners from all parts of the core, and indeed beyond is want to introduce elements into our culture that are counter to our Republic's ideals. Dementlieu must state a positive case to the commons, as to why our Republic is the greatest government the Core has ever known. It must do the same to those foreigners who come, because some–including our honoured hostess–will listen and come to enrich our cultural life. And it must do so to the very gentry who should embody the best of our culture. Thus may those who fall below the standard be identified and corrected. I heard the Culture Advisor say to me once it was the duty of every member of polite society to ensure propriety in art and culture. I cannot say I disagree.

Mlle. Rose Dupin Reporter, The Gilded Quill

I would prefer not to take much of the spotlight, especially with such talented speakers around this table. I very much agree with the general sentiments expressed so far. Our culture in Dementlieu indeed stands as a beacon of refinement. The guidance of our esteemed Cultural Advisor is pivotal, ensuring our art, which defines us, continues to flourish. While artistic freedom is crucial, having it scrutinized elevates it to its highest potential, and we are in good hands, with the care of Sieur Regnier Chaboteaux.

M. Auguste Détourné House Détourné

I haven't a desire to be too long winded just yet as many of my personal thoughts have been shared by the previous speakers. Though, it goes without saying that Dementlieuse culture is of the most, if not the most refined among the Core. We have built this status over years and years of careful cultivation, pushing forth the brilliant ideals of our best minds. Without due regulation, there is too much room left for those who would see this hard work toppled by ignorance. It is among the duty of the gentry and the state to present only our best to future generations, for brighter futures. And with that I shall reserve any further thoughts for the remainder of the discussion.

Mlle. Brise Tannemeigne

I served briefly with Sieur Dorian, and as you all have witnessed he referred to the state as a gardener, and our culture of which needs pruning and tending. I also fear the opposite: Our great Dementlieu is as a one-hundred year old oak, one with roots deep and branches wide. It provides shade, sustenance, and growth regardless of interference. To prune such a beauty would not only stunt growth, but what are we but leaves to this tree? A thing that needs no tending as she watches the flowers bloom beneath. I am of the persuasion the State should be reluctant with its heavy-fisted ways, as to promote an even greater opportunity to all. As I do believe our forefathers intended. But I shall leave it at that.

M. Cezar Pâslaru Artiste

I don't have great titles, I am just an artist who is self taught and made a living from painting. Just like I imagine many folk of the Quartier Ouvrier would like to do. I'll just come out and say what's bothering me, and what I picture is in their hearts as well... No artist wants to be told what to paint, what to sing, or what to make. A work comes from the artist's soul or it does not, and it should not be twisted to serve any government. Not this one, nor the Devil's in my home, or wherever else. That way an artist's full potential comes about, by experimenting and even by making mistakes or works that are horrible in some folk's eyes. Sure, censor the worst of them – all the seditious ones. But conditional support for artists–especially if they're common folk-–is not support if you can pull the rug under their feet when you do not like what they make. That is just what already happens, but the point of this conversation is to change things for the better, no? Let them make mistakes.

M. Dirge Driftwood Society of the Erudite

Firstly I'll state and apologize ahead of time for speaking the crude tongue of trade over your Mordentish as I never took the time to learn it – And noticed no one took the time to ask if I could understand them either. As with many perspectives I've been told so far from our other statements, it is talk of the refinement of Dementlieu and its influence of such. As to not hold up such an opening, I'll only state my own with a question over anything else. How does one 'mandate' culture? As was the question of the debate. What is decided to be correct and not? And how is that given unto others. By influence, or by enforcement? Just the thing to think about while we all discuss. I believe we said that culture was organic? I don't think so. Culture is not organic – It's interpreted. I'll have plenty more to say on that later but I won't hold it all up for now.

Mlle. Rory Blake Musician

I wish to speak from the perspective of a humble artist who has been performing in the Republic for almost two years since my arrival to the City of Lights.  I envision an ideal relationship where the state plays an active, yet balanced, role in promoting Dementlieuse culture through support, and collaboration. Providing administrative and financial support ensures that cultural initiatives are accessible to all citizens, regardless of their status. This support also empowers independent artists, offering them the motivation and resources needed to take the initiative and contribute meaningfully to the cultural life of the Republic. The state should also incentivise collaboration between various cultural organizations, artists, and community groups. By providing platforms for these entities to work together, from Théâtre de la Cathédrale to Club l'Artiste and other respectful venues. This collaboration can also extend to international exchanges, promoting Dementlieuse culture globally while welcoming diverse influences back home. For instance, the Skaldic festivals organized by Mademoiselle Skufdottir have been warmly received by the public, showcasing the success of such cultural initiatives. In conclusion, the ideal relationship between the state and the promotion of Dementlieuse culture is one of active support of the artistic communities, comprehensive education and collaborative facilitation. By embracing this multifaceted approach, the state not only preserves the rich heritage of Dementlieuse but also ensures it continues to thrive and evolve, enriching the cultural lives of its citizens.

Maîtresse Joséphine Périgord Le Théâtre de la Cathédrale

[I am] the Assistant Manager of the Théâtre de la Cathédrale. As such I am not just an actor or musician or dancer on stage, but also the one to help coordinate and plan the various productions. For the relationship between the state and the arts, plenty have listed good points already. The relationship is one of a patron to guide and support the arts, to help ensure that plenty of people can attend the productions. Not just the gentry and rich foreign guests, but the common working man and woman, people with families. The Republic's art is well regarded throughout the core and beyond, and it should be accessible to all Dementlieuse. Patronage of the arts, and full support to help ensure this and help ensure the many other costs that go into running a production, can help ensure that the wonderful Dementlieuse arts are for all to enjoy and experience.

[bunnie]

Questions

Mlle. Parsons

For this next round I'm going to ask some pointed questions to several of you at a time. You may indicate whether you wish to respond, and I will call on you. Taking a page from Monsieur Driftwood's opening statement, how is it we are to mandate culture, for those of you who favour a robust State relationship? Indeed, how are we defining the term? Is a painting more worthy than a play? More pointedly; it is a given that tastes vary. I myself favour aspirational and uplifting art to dour or macabre art. Is it wise to put the great power of the State in the hands of a single advisor on culture?

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Maître Desrosiers

Clearly one can rank higher and lower forms of artistic expression. Opera stands above some bawdy house ditty which both has no place in polite society and is soporiphically simple. But the mandate from the state is less focused upon forms of artistic expression, but rather meaning; and appropriateness with regards to Dementlieuse ideals. We have manners and social protocols, even if some from abroad or the commons fail to follow them. The purpose of those protocols is to promote proper behaviour in our society to allow our progress and good governance to flourish. It is the same with art.

M. Détourné

Well, fortunately for me, Maître Desrosiers has shortened my own reply. Regardless, I will simply state that the interference of the state should be reserved for those particular instances where an artistic medium breaches appropriate display. I have my own preferences over which particular medium I enjoy, however I would not expect that same preference to be mandated. [Less in favour of sponsorship than of censoring inappropriate works, then? Just for clarification.] I would argue that sponsorship, from the state in particular, is a different discussion. But yes, my statement now only implies the censure of particular works that would disrupt a polite society. Of course that is not to say I am opposed to certain sponsorships. In my own experience, I have personally sponsored several artists in the past, one of which is present today. Though, I believe these sorts of things are better left for specialized organizations as opposed to the State itself.

Dame de Sauvre

For those of us advocating a strong state role in culture, the focus is on promoting and preserving cultural practices, traditions, and arts. This includes funding for institutions, support for artists and events, and integrating cultural education into society. Culture, in this context encompasses language, customs, beliefs, arts, and social institutions, emphasizing heritage and shared values. The debate over whether a painting is more valuable than a play hinges on cultural context and societal values. Both forms of expression can be powerful conveying ideas and emotions uniquely. The argument against state intervention in art emphasizes the importance of artistic freedom for creativity and diversity. As an artist myself, I passionately understand the desire, sometimes deep seated need to create without imposed hindrance. However, for those of us who would argue that state involvement benefits society – State support ensures cultural expression is accessible to all, fostering social cohesion. It also helps preserve cultural heritage, especially for minority cultures at risk of being forgotten. Additionally, state involvement promotes cultural exchange, fostering mutual respect and understanding. Look around you at the grand collection of various pieces of art Dementlieu has cultivated over centuries. Did state oversight not only protect this, but encourage it, foster it? Ultimately, balancing artistic freedom with state involvement can benefit society, promoting inclusivity, preserving heritage, and fostering cultural exchange. Everyone benefits from a society that considers the good of the whole and the long-term effects of its cultural image. And with that, I yield the floor.

Sieur Dorian

I would simply add that the role of patronage is not one that the State has sole prerogative over. Indeed that role will more often be played by those with influence and wealth outside of the State's employ – members of the gentry and mercantile classes with means. If therefore some of us place a lesser emphasis on the State's role as patron and more on its role as shepherd and gardener, so to speak, that is why: free citizens may offer patronage to whomever they enjoy. Is a painting more worthy than a play or vice versa? That isn't the State's question to answer. Ultimately the State's role is to keep good order and decorum within the strictures of tradition and propriety.

Mlle. Tannemeigne

Earlier I referred to our great country as an oak. I feel the analogy holds true in this regard, as well if we were to include nature, with that being the natural way of growth. The breeze, its song, and the flowers that bloom underneath the potential. And the Earth, nurturing and providing the sustenance for said growth all mentioned. I feel the very laws that state we all must perform in High Mordentish nothing but a man-made wall that stifles said growth. The very life squeezed from it – A suffocation if you will. But, when the earth is non-tainted by the taint of opinion outside that growth, true art can flourish and grow unabated.

M. Pâslaru

The opera is beautiful, I have been to it and it can be a dazzling and moving show – But is it not a waste to expect the state to focus on exclusive 'high art' of that sort, when they could support the sort of art that's much more widely made in Dementlieu? There are forms of art that are more accessible, that can be made with fewer materials and even less training, and that is the art that the common folk can make. Anyone can learn to sing or try their hand at painting with materials from the bazaar. That is not the case with the select few voices that get to sing at the opera. What I mean is this: The more folk that are given a chance at art, the more folk that can make a comfortable living from it. And if they are successful, I would bet they would be happy to call Dementlieu the best of the Core. And as an aside, I will agree with Monsieur Détourné and Sieur Dorian's idea that it may be best for other people rather than the state to focus on more experimental works.

[bunnie]

Mlle. Parsons

That may lead in to my next question, then. A small number of you cited the importance of artistic freedom. Monsieur Pâslaru, you just stated that a successful artist would be happy to praise Dementlieu. But there are many unsuccessful artists who find no patronage from the State or otherwise. Given that, would anyone like to offer an answer to the question: of what worth is an artists' freedom if it cannot sustain them, nor is never appreciated by others?

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M. Driftwood

I now reside within Kartakass. That is a place known for it's culture and music in specific – Yet it's not one that is plastered about and sought for to have state backing. It's governed by it, but the individual is graded by their personal work. Not one adopted by the government there. An individual should be able to generate any income or the means of living for whatever talent and skills they have. Seeking permission from higher authority to 'allow' you to do such in terms of artistic endeavour seems very counter-productive to it. Being 'forced' to appreciate art is... Well it doesn't really work. You're not appraising art then; you're following the law. Artists will not only need their freedom. They generate it. If it's done by order of the state instead. That's just called having a mandated occupation. Not your own interest. That's all.

Maîtresse Périgord

Artists who wish to prosper to let others enjoy their artistic talents need support and nurturing to help allow people the ability to even practice what they wish. While dancing alone or with your partner by yourselves is wonderful and enriching. Where freedom to do as one wishes is there. But on a stage, there are rules and direction. Good troupes have managers and directors for a reason. One needs to know lines, needs to know direction. Yet a good manager shouldn't micromanage their cast and crew. To have total freedom, to be able to go off script because you want to make a tragedy a comedy, or a dramatic opera into a bawdy musical that could ruin the experience for everyone. One must think of more than just oneself here.

M. Détourné

Well, branching out from the most recent question. I would argue that if your sole motivation when it comes to artistic endeavours is to gain wealth or fame, you are not an artist at all. An artist's freedom is paramount. However, My interpretation of the overarching question relates very clearly to public displays. I am certainly not advocating for government agents to supervise the art that is made in one's private spaces, but if you aim to present these works to the public, there must be regulations. To put it simply, I do not think an artists freedom should be restrained, however, if these paintings or productions are meant to be performed or sold, they should certainly abide by the status quo. The worth is that of the artist's own expression, anything beyond that is attributed by other parties. And with that I shall conclude, though if clarification is necessary I will oblige.

[bunnie]

Mlle. Parsons

No, I think we will instead move on to my most pointed question for supporters of the status quo – or those who wish to expand State art sponsorship. If you look out that window you will see, past the Cathedral, buildings in the Quartier Ouvrier. The debate subject is State funding of cultural expressions. How can our current spending be justified when the Ouvrier is, to read from my clean book, a decrepit warren? Can the people there eat culture? Will it shelter them from the elements? If they're successful at it, yes, it may pay them, but it takes a certain level of comfort, or willingness to endure hardship, to raise one's craft to the level of sustainability. I put it to you this way: would we not get more cultural expression if the lowliest among us were better supported instead? If more funds went under the purview of Wymmer Drukker than Sieur Regnier Chaboteaux? There are buildings out there still wrecked from Foquelaine's bombardment near ten years ago now. We've cut ourselves off from the Hawk. We should rebuild, expand, now. What say any of you?

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Maître Desrosiers

Those who know me know I have spoken before on the state of the Quartier Ouvrier. There are elements that fall below the standard expected of Leon's descendants. I am a proponent of a return to our agrarian roots, in fact. An argument that has often fallen on deaf ears, when I resided in this city. But let us be clear, when we criticise the state of the Quartier Ouvrier. The Republic provides food for the residents of the Quartier Ouvrier. It provides education. It provides security, as best it can, despite the resistance of the criminal element that is predominantly drawn from the Quartier Ouvrier itself. The gentry provide employment. Some, I will admit, treat their employees poorly. The link of the gentry to their tenants, akin to being the head of a large family, as still persists in the country is broken here in the city. It exposes poor character, unfit of Leon's inheritors, in some. There are, however, laws, that cover almost every ill that persists in the Quartier Ouvrier, laws rejected by its residents or that are imperfectly enforced due to lack of resource or otherwise. Where laws cannot reach, the example and largesse of the gentry must make up the difference. It is our obligation. Our duty and our purpose. We are custodians and guardians of those in the lesser classes. We set an example to follow in our standards of behaviour, and in our work for the common good. Culture–our culture–is part of how we affirm those standards. It's part of how we educate ourselves on what our obligations are and how we teach others to be good citizens. That aspiration for an artistic ideal, and the appreciation of it by those who seek to better themselves, is a vital part of the Republic. The best and brightest of our art must be allowed to flower, and defunding it to pour yet more money into a bottomless hole in the Quartier Ouvrier is a short sighted proposition, in my view. The Leonic ideal placed the gentry, whom the state is composed of, in the position of shepherds over the people. I would say that [the Quartier Ouvrier] is an imperfect manifestation of that ideal. Although not a failure. But the pursuit and appreciation of high art by the Gentry is also part of that ideal, the fruit of our intellectual heights. We do not return to Leon's vision by cutting away a vital part of it.

Maîtresse Périgord

In regards to your question. I would hope that both councillors are working together so that the poor in the Quartier Ouvrier can gain a wonderful cultural experience and education that enriches them. The poor of the Quartier Ouvrier deserve to be able to attend operas and plays, and the chance to learn to sing opera and to dance ballet. The elegance and refinement that Dementlieu's productions are famous for should be for all of Dementlieu. Funding the arts and the cultural productions should also be there to encourage all to be enriched. The public works should be to encourage schools that teach the arts and culture.

[bunnie]

Audience Questions

Mlle. Parsons

Finally in the interests of time, for our last brief segment I would like to open the floor to participants and spectators, that you may directly question the participants. As before, first to act will be first called.

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Mlle. Cordelia Smith

Do you think this debate mattered? That is, at the end of the day, has the exchange of ideas enlightened you, those who participated? Have you discovered something new, in your exchange of ideas? Changed your opinion?

M. Driftwood

The only thing I truly learnt today. Is that even when I announce I can't understand a word any of you say–no offense–I still do not get the courtesy of being spoken to in a language I understand. . . .

Maître Desrosiers

I can answer you in this way. The purpose of debate is to come to greater understanding by facing opposing points of view. This is an iterative process, and illuminations from it are not instant. In fact a quickly changed opinion is often a poorly thought out one.

Mlle. Parsons

Now, are there any other responses to the question, or further questions from the participants or audience? [No.] Then I want to thank you all for coming, and please join me in a short round of applause for our participants. Once again, I want to thank Doctoresse Épineux for helping me arrange things and for transcribing. –END–