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Author Topic: OCR and Ferry Captains  (Read 1022 times)

Elyan

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OCR and Ferry Captains
« on: May 14, 2024, 11:27:42 PM »
Since the update all ferry captains flee on sight at my character despite being low OCR. This is problematic for a number of reasons, for starters it's quite immersion breaking to have NPCs freak out if you're simply in the same zone as them. Furthermore, it can stop other players from using the NPC for its intended purpose for just accidently walking by, the NPC runs into danger which can lead to even more issues. Even though my character is technically an outcast it makes zero sense, some of these boats are in the marchand; a place where caliban are accepted.

If this is intended it should be reconsidered as it's an absolutely horrible change for the reasons given above, plus the fact that outcasts are already a pain to play. It just gives the impression that the team wants them to genuinely be unplayable and unenjoyable OOC because this enhances zero aspects of the server or roleplay. If this is intentional the change also disregards story, many characters such as caliban nobles and drow accepted through DM interactions are disregarded by this change. Worst of all it begs the question, what even is the point of the OCR system if NPCs can just assume what race I am and regardless of OCR run. What's the point of influence?

FinalHeaven

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Re: OCR and Ferry Captains
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2024, 12:35:45 AM »
This is almost certainly because of the discussion in the new dungeon thread.  I agree with you though.  OCR is a silly, tedious system that isn't even fully implemented server-wide.  There are much better ways to accomplish the same effect and it's extremely jarring when the system bumps into story elements with 0 leniency.



nerdevar

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Re: OCR and Ferry Captains
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2024, 12:49:40 AM »
forcing all the outcasts into using the mistways seems far more unfair than outcasts deserve, to be 100% honest

Elyan

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Re: OCR and Ferry Captains
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2024, 01:02:12 AM »
forcing all the outcasts into using the mistways seems far more unfair than outcasts deserve, to be 100% honest

Yep, I was just stuck in Blaustein for like 30 minutes because the mists were closed and I was too ugly to take a boat. Tragic times tbh.

Spazzer

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Re: OCR and Ferry Captains
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2024, 02:56:25 AM »
forcing all the outcasts into using the mistways seems far more unfair than outcasts deserve, to be 100% honest

Yep, I was just stuck in Blaustein for like 30 minutes because the mists were closed and I was too ugly to take a boat. Tragic times tbh.

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MJ_Johansson

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Re: OCR and Ferry Captains
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2024, 03:55:48 AM »
Yikes... If this is to be the case, why do we even have influence? Bit of a headscratcher here, I admit.
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gotesu

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Re: OCR and Ferry Captains
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2024, 04:10:14 AM »
I think barring outcasts from using ferries is a bad change. Why not just charge a greater sum for transport? Sailors aren't exactly soft hearted and they deal with all sorts of people, calibans and other outcasts included.

Talis

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Re: OCR and Ferry Captains
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2024, 04:47:45 AM »
Some of this ties into the discussion being had in this thread.

https://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=71604.0

zDark Shadowz

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Re: OCR and Ferry Captains
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2024, 05:19:28 AM »
Bad change, too sensible.

If someone ends up at Blaustein because the vistani captain dumped them there, the Mistways need to auto-port outcasts back to the Keep if it's otherwise unlinked.

At least the Vistani control all the other routes I suppose, and the islands, while popular, make up only a tiny fraction of available dungeons.

EO

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Re: OCR and Ferry Captains
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2024, 07:59:35 AM »
That's actually a bug; their behaviour was set to the same as herbivore animals so they react with hostility to pretty much anything and anyone. It'll be fixed shortly. For now NPCs (including captains) in Blaustein and Ghastria don't react to OCR, but if your PC's status in that domain is hostile (red in the OCR list), then you shouldn't be wandering around openly.

On the wider topic of outcast races, again, when people decide to play the handful of races and subraces that have high OcR, they buy into the conditions that come with them. The vast majority of races and subraces don't have high OcR and are interesting as well. It's a choice people make, which comes with restrictions in-character.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2024, 08:11:01 AM by EO »

Anarcoplayba

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Re: OCR and Ferry Captains
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2024, 08:27:23 AM »
I have one outcast pc that I rolled for a NCE and, well, ocasionally I hop on. That said, limiting access to dungeons (in a server that constantly feel crowded and hitting a dungeon in high spawn feels like winning the lottery) seems bad.

Outcasts should be played for rp purposes, imposing limits to game content will lead to less people providing this important part of the setting.

If possible, I'd suggest, at least, that the "caravan room" system is implemented, allowing calibans to enter invisible and the party to pay the ferry.
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Edward

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Re: OCR and Ferry Captains
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2024, 08:48:22 AM »
That's actually a bug; their behaviour was set to the same as herbivore animals so they react with hostility to pretty much anything and anyone. It'll be fixed shortly. For now NPCs (including captains) in Blaustein and Ghastria don't react to OCR, but if your PC's status in that domain is hostile (red in the OCR list), then you shouldn't be wandering around openly.

On the wider topic of outcast races, again, when people decide to play the handful of races and subraces that have high OcR, they buy into the conditions that come with them. The vast majority of races and subraces don't have high OcR and are interesting as well. It's a choice people make, which comes with restrictions in-character.

Shouldn’t non-outcasts have the same issue in Outcast Areas then?

Like, we shouldn’t have Low-OCR characters in the Drain or Port Black-Market.

MAB77

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Re: OCR and Ferry Captains
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2024, 08:55:52 AM »
It is not a matter of symmetry. It has to make sense in the in-game world for consequences to occur. The Drain is more than just a place for high-OCR characters.
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nerdevar

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Re: OCR and Ferry Captains
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2024, 12:32:14 PM »
saying we "bought into" something that just got changed doesn't seem fair. a change that we didn't know was coming was not something we bought into, and I strongly think either more vistani caravan points should be added or the change should be reverted

EO

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Re: OCR and Ferry Captains
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2024, 12:40:27 PM »
saying we "bought into" something that just got changed doesn't seem fair. a change that we didn't know was coming was not something we bought into, and I strongly think either more vistani caravan points should be added or the change should be reverted

You didn’t lose anything though,Tejeda is a new place. NPCs always react in character. Some will tolerate outcasts others not. When we add a new NPC he follows the same rules as others.

nerdevar

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Re: OCR and Ferry Captains
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2024, 01:11:13 PM »
saying we "bought into" something that just got changed doesn't seem fair. a change that we didn't know was coming was not something we bought into, and I strongly think either more vistani caravan points should be added or the change should be reverted

You didn’t lose anything though,Tejeda is a new place. NPCs always react in character. Some will tolerate outcasts others not. When we add a new NPC he follows the same rules as others.

I was under the impression a whole lot of ship captains suddenly no longer accept high OCR characters when they had previously done so

Anarcoplayba

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Re: OCR and Ferry Captains
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2024, 01:13:06 PM »
saying we "bought into" something that just got changed doesn't seem fair. a change that we didn't know was coming was not something we bought into, and I strongly think either more vistani caravan points should be added or the change should be reverted

You didn’t lose anything though,Tejeda is a new place. NPCs always react in character. Some will tolerate outcasts others not. When we add a new NPC he follows the same rules as others.

That does not change the fact that saying that actual and future content will not be accessible by calibans, less people may be interested in investing time and effort in that kind of PC.
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EO

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Re: OCR and Ferry Captains
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2024, 02:46:02 PM »
Quote
That does not change the fact that saying that actual and future content will not be accessible by calibans, less people may be interested in investing time and effort in that kind of PC.

That's nothing new though, outcasts have had access to less content since we implemented OCR (sometime around March-April 2006?).

Quote
I was under the impression a whole lot of ship captains suddenly no longer accept high OCR characters when they had previously done so

For now, the only domain affected is Dementlieu, and the two ship captains there who now react to OCR only spawned during the day and were already surrounded with NPCs who reacted to OCR, so, unless the player was ignoring NPCs, they were already inaccessible.

Quote
If possible, I'd suggest, at least, that the "caravan room" system is implemented, allowing calibans to enter invisible and the party to pay the ferry.

This is on the to-do list and would solve part of the access problem.

MAB77

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Re: OCR and Ferry Captains
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2024, 02:56:11 PM »
I'd just like to remind everyone that we were always abundantly clear as to the consequences of playing an outcast. This for instance is from our Subrace & Template Roleplaying Resources and Lore section.

[...]- The Council makes it a point to respectfully remind players that outcast subraces and templates trend towards antagonistic/conflict RP inherently due to the setting. Therefore, it is important that you take significant consideration about how your outcast subrace/template character will adapt to the atmosphere of the lands of the mist. Regardless of one's alignment and deeds, you should prepare yourself for the possibility that any outcast race/template will be treated harshly due to the xenophobic native populace. That means you may be relegated to diminished access to certain sections of play and it is the responsibility of the player to respect the inherent conditions of the environments their outcast character inhabits. Playing an outcast character can be challenging in this setting, however, it is a unique RP experience when properly portrayed within the atmosphere of Ravenloft.

You must also understand that we are not bound by any rule stating we will never make changes that might make some situations harder, be it for outcasts or the rest. It's not the first time we made changes like these. It won't be the last time either, but always done with the integrity of the setting in mind.
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Alalaurealarialelia

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Re: OCR and Ferry Captains
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2024, 10:17:37 PM »
For now, the only domain affected is Dementlieu, and the two ship captains there who now react to OCR only spawned during the day and were already surrounded with NPCs who reacted to OCR, so, unless the player was ignoring NPCs, they were already inaccessible.
I just wanted to point out that none of the sailor NPCs in the Port harbour react to OCR. I always thought this was a deliberate choice, that the seas of Ravenloft are just so full of all the terrible monsters from our stories, that sailors quickly become so incredibly jaded that they no longer care about some hulking, misshapen figure walking by. (And from a coding perspective, I always assumed that OCR is applied as a blanket to all NPCs in a domain and then exceptions are made, so that the sailors ignoring OCR could not have been a mistake. But maybe it still is. Which is why I mention it.

Zyemeth

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Re: OCR and Ferry Captains
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2024, 12:01:16 AM »
Yes the NPCs in that section have never cared about ocr for the last seven years.

FunkeyMonkey

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Re: OCR and Ferry Captains
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2024, 04:04:32 AM »
Look forward to seeing the OCR implementation, will offer feedback post implementation, I reckon there's more value in that than 'Nay Saying' without giving it a go first.

Also! I hope MAB isn't just teasing with Outcast only/guided dungeons and that we can soon see them implemented as well!

HM01

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Re: OCR and Ferry Captains
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2024, 09:40:44 AM »

For now, the only domain affected is Dementlieu, and the two ship captains there who now react to OCR only spawned during the day and were already surrounded with NPCs who reacted to OCR, so, unless the player was ignoring NPCs, they were already inaccessible.

For what its worth, the sailors in the marchand never responded to outcast rating. They all shuffle into an inn at the end of the night, 30 feet away with a caliban right inside.



He is wearing a mask. so one could assume that would help people tolerate his presence. I agree with the sentiment that influence is a pointless investment outside of DM events if this is the current implementation. The point is, the inconsistency of the OCR system and uneven implementation of it contradicts "What you see is what you get".  There are enough NPCs that do react to you in Dementlieu to stand to reason that the ones that don't wouldn't mind your presence.

I don't mind the change, but the expectation was that the OCR system was fully implemented in the domain. So to suggest that players were NPC ignoring seems bad taste.


Maiyannah

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Re: OCR and Ferry Captains
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2024, 01:42:28 PM »
If playing an outcast isn't hard, you're not playing an outcast.  You would not nor should not be accepted by polite society. 

To quote Mistipedia:
Quote
Calibans are a human subspecies only found in the Demiplane of Dread, representing individuals corrupted by malefic spiritual energies either in utero, at conception, or at birth. They could, in a very real sense, be considered the Planetouched of the Demiplane of Dread. The sources of contamination are multitudinous, and include black magic, dark alchemy, curses, the malign aura of powerful and malicious magical beings such as hags or fiends, the taint of unholy acts such as rape, incest, necrophilia or cannibalism, or even prolonged exposure to intense negative emotions. The corruption imbues calibans with preternatural strength and vitality, but curses them with all manner of deformities and mental maladies, which lead to them being at best ostracized from human society.

Emphasis mine.
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RedMoney

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Re: OCR and Ferry Captains
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2024, 01:48:20 PM »
Can't even be an elf in some places...
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