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Author Topic: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk  (Read 1470 times)

MAB77

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Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« on: April 02, 2024, 06:48:54 AM »
I am happy to report that my April 1st preview was in fact NOT an April Fools joke.

By using the hardcoded entries meant for the unreleased Shou Disciple prestige class we could successfully make the monk abilities to work properly. Namely said that "a tattooed monk’s class levels stack with his monk levels for determining his unarmed damage, AC bonus, and unarmored speed bonus." With this confirmed, we can implement that class very closely to the source material.

This is the only monk's PrC we'll be able to do this way. The tattooed monk was chosen because it is only one of the few (if not even the only one) that can mechanically be implemented with the game engine closely to its source material. It was also felt to be thematically fitting for characters from I'Cath, Rokushima Taiyoo, Sri-Raji and Mulan monks in Hazlan, although tattooed monk will be possible everywhere.

In a nutshell, the PrC trades monk levels for the ability to customize some of the perks they receive. Because of scripting limitations and balance considerations, this PrC will be restricted to monks only. You can have an idea of it's abilities from the SRD. Be aware we will draw from both the Oriental Adventures and SRD versions, tweaking duration and uses/day for balance. This one will likely not be app gated.

This will not be ready for a while, but I am hard at work scripting it so that it may be ready for the next HAK.

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Day Old Bread

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2024, 11:24:04 AM »
Very cool to see some monk love. It seems it's mostly flavor stuff. I wonder if some of the bonuses from the tattoos will stack with the bonuses that monk already gets.

Stormy

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2024, 11:33:56 AM »
My only fear with this PrC is that it's going to become universal, not due to its RP or its mechanics, but due to the fact that players won't take the last level of monk because of the OCR increase. Everything else is looks good, though some of these tattoos definitely look like they'll be the most picked options.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2024, 11:50:43 AM by Stormy »

Day Old Bread

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2024, 02:04:31 PM »
My only fear with this PrC is that it's going to become universal, not due to its RP or its mechanics, but due to the fact that players won't take the last level of monk because of the OCR increase. Everything else is looks good, though some of these tattoos definitely look like they'll be the most picked options.

So many players do not plan for lvl 20.

But it is a legit concern. I think you'd still see a good mix though. Celebrants and other pure ascetic type characters will probably shun the tattooed monk as "cheating" in a way. But that's just one man's opinion.

softdrink

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2024, 02:19:37 PM »
I don't think it will be really that strong and will mostly be for flavor, which is nice! Of course, before any of the abilities can be judged we need to see the implementation of how it's all going to look on the server. Judging at least from the original abilities though, it's nothing crazy. Could be good for those that don't want the massive OCR increase and insta outcast status of 20 monk though.

DoctorLuxo

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2024, 05:20:48 AM »
I'll be surprisingly short: I like this.

Duupir

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2024, 01:56:49 AM »
I do like the idea of monk being able to change shapes.

Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2024, 02:52:05 AM »


Is the monk class going to be a requirement of this PrC or would anyone that meets the classes Criteria be able to enter in it?

I imagine it will ask 8 ranks in Lore in place of Knowledge Religion will there be something else in place of Improved Grapple?

Bounty

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2024, 04:03:52 AM »


Is the monk class going to be a requirement of this PrC or would anyone that meets the classes Criteria be able to enter in it?

I imagine it will ask 8 ranks in Lore in place of Knowledge Religion will there be something else in place of Improved Grapple?

Just Monk i am afraid.

...Because of scripting limitations and balance considerations, this PrC will be restricted to monks only....

Day Old Bread

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2024, 09:33:48 AM »
Looking over the PRC it does really seem to be suited to non-monks. Most of the abilities are the same as you recieve for being a monk in some other variation. That said, I still love the idea to add some flavor to the monk class as well as giving those lvl 20 monks an option to not become an outsider and thus jack up their OCR

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2024, 12:52:47 PM »
Concerned that most of the RP abilities will not make it into the game and we'll have 3-4 tattoos that everyone picks. It's better than standard monk because you can actually build the character your way at least, though I'm not holding out hope for existing monks to get a relevel.
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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2024, 01:17:48 PM »
Concerned that most of the RP abilities will not make it into the game and we'll have 3-4 tattoos that everyone picks. It's better than standard monk because you can actually build the character your way at least, though I'm not holding out hope for existing monks to get a relevel.

while there will probably be a 'meta', there are like 27 different tattoos listed in the picture...so there's a chance for a lot of variation and RP whatevers!

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MAB77

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2024, 01:18:50 PM »
Looking over the PRC it does really seem to be suited to non-monks. Most of the abilities are the same as you recieve for being a monk in some other variation. That said, I still love the idea to add some flavor to the monk class as well as giving those lvl 20 monks an option to not become an outsider and thus jack up their OCR

Incorrect. While the exact number of available tattoos remains to be confirmed. I have identified 25 of them that should be implementable closely enough to the source material. Of those, only 3 have powers similar to those they'd miss out by not going pure monks. And of those 3, I suspect the one granting poison immunity will be largely skipped. The SR tattoo is weaker and the Ethereal Jaunt tattoo will grant a single use, they will however have the advantage of being available at a lower character level. For the rest, it will be a matter of tweaking uses/day and duration to make them interesting enough that there would be diversity among tattooed monks.

Concerned that most of the RP abilities will not make it into the game and we'll have 3-4 tattoos that everyone picks. It's better than standard monk because you can actually build the character your way at least, though I'm not holding out hope for existing monks to get a relevel.

I can't help it if some only go for the meta-build, but that's not a reason to refrain from implementing the PrC. In the end that choice will remain with the player and I trust that some will go for the roleplay build.

You are correct that re-levels will not be offered to monks. New PrCs are for new PCs. You miss the whole point of a prestige class when you do not grow organically in the role.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2024, 01:28:10 PM by MAB77 »
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EarlofEtheria

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2024, 01:52:28 PM »
Any chance for Centipede to be altered and thusly included for Tattooed Monk as a Shrouded Dance ability?

Shadow Dancers are a PRC on POTM and can be taken by Monks, which would normally have access to a Shadow Walk ability as well. The difference being Shadow Dancers learn it as an at will, over Tattooed Monks restricted to once a week.

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2024, 02:16:34 PM »
Looking over the PRC it does really seem to be suited to non-monks. Most of the abilities are the same as you recieve for being a monk in some other variation. That said, I still love the idea to add some flavor to the monk class as well as giving those lvl 20 monks an option to not become an outsider and thus jack up their OCR

Incorrect. While the exact number of available tattoos remains to be confirmed. I have identified 25 of them that should be implementable closely enough to the source material. Of those, only 3 have powers similar to those they'd miss out by not going pure monks. And of those 3, I suspect the one granting poison immunity will be largely skipped. The SR tattoo is weaker and the Ethereal Jaunt tattoo will grant a single use, they will however have the advantage of being available at a lower character level. For the rest, it will be a matter of tweaking uses/day and duration to make them interesting enough that there would be diversity among tattooed monks.

Nice! I didn't do a deep dive or anything. I'm still super excited for some extra monk flavor.

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2024, 02:19:08 PM »
This is kinda masochistic on my end, but I don't like the idea of people taking this class to dodge the monk OCR boost. I already don't like people not taking the final monk level. Is there any way to have the tattoos be obviously magical and add to your OCR in Barovia

Lightweaver

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2024, 02:30:39 PM »
This is kinda masochistic on my end, but I don't like the idea of people taking this class to dodge the monk OCR boost. I already don't like people not taking the final monk level. Is there any way to have the tattoos be obviously magical and add to your OCR in Barovia

People can take classes for whatever reason so as long as the roleplay justifies it. I don't see why monk should be an exception demanding a certain outcome. There are a few characters who have only taken a few levels of palemaster or dragon disciple because they wanted the thematic flavor but not the endgame. They are choosing not to experience the consequences and are not receiving the associated mechanical benefits accordingly.

Less so regarding magic, it may be a discussion if the prevalence of tattoos would cause a nominal increase in OCR in select domains due to being an uncommon sight. Some areas are particular about differences and the Hazlani do not appreciate outsiders wearing an abundance of ink.

EarlofEtheria

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2024, 04:35:17 PM »
...the Hazlani do not appreciate outsiders wearing an abundance of ink.

This is worth discussing as a potential OCR increase within Hazlan specifically, for Non-Mulani monks - or perhaps for any not in the academy faction given their magic-like nature.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2024, 04:40:45 PM by EarlofEtheria »

MAB77

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2024, 05:09:41 PM »
It is a given that non-mulan tattooed monks in Hazlan, especially Rashemi, will face consequences. What form it will take remains to be seen. Could be an OCR spike or a RP oriented interdiction for non-Mulan to wear "Sacred Lawgiver Sanctionned" tattoos. If you have more ideas let us know.

It is a no for the centipede tattoo. Shadow Walk is not supported on the server, hence the tattoo won't be. It is not a HiPS equivalent and Shrouded Dance remains available to all monks/tattooed monks through the regular investments.
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MAB

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2024, 10:28:00 PM »
This is kinda masochistic on my end, but I don't like the idea of people taking this class to dodge the monk OCR boost. I already don't like people not taking the final monk level. Is there any way to have the tattoos be obviously magical and add to your OCR in Barovia

Wearing clothes to cover the tattoos is OP.

You can already avoid taking the final levels of monk by entering a prestige class. One of the best ones you can pick is Divine Champion. A few of the compatible classes like DC don't even require an application.

It's already been said too very few players actually make it to 20 and well to be frank, this game is 20+ years old. I've played pure monks in the past before on NWN. It was cool the first five times I did it, and it was cool being a level 40 monk some of those times. it's boring now, generally most players are going to want to try out PoTM's custom content.

level 20 Monks are going to be a very rare thing on that virtue alone. The only classes I'd want to pure to 20 would be anything new or have had some considerable changes like Fighter and it's combat focuses.

...the Hazlani do not appreciate outsiders wearing an abundance of ink.

This is worth discussing as a potential OCR increase within Hazlan specifically, for Non-Mulani monks - or perhaps for any not in the academy faction given their magic-like nature.

I actually would not support an OCR increase even in Hazlan for the simple reason that the tattoos are a bit more than simply 'being a caliban' it's not something that should be circumvented with enough Influence score either.

Having tattoos as a non-Mulan in Hazlan is a crime.

The fact that feats, CHA score, and Influence could get around that potential penalty makes it unsuitable. Instead players should be trying to bring these individuals to justice, and tattooed players should either be hiding their ink, staying concealed, or staying away from civilized zones in Hazlan. It's a bit more than "Go away womb freak". It'd be met with hostility by the enforcers I would think.

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2024, 10:35:06 PM »
Quote
Having tattoos as a non-Mulan in Hazlan is a crime.

Just to clarify, having tattoos as a non-Mulan isn't necessarily a crime. Here are the two laws that concern tattoos in Hazlan:

TATTOOS

XIX. Tattoos shall never be scribed upon any surface that is not the skin of a Mulan, under penalty of removal of the tattooist's hand.

XX. The Rashemi shall be forbidden to possess tattoos or to scribe them upon any other individual, under penalty of removal of the offending skin and of the tattooist's hand.

XIX outlaws scribing tattoos on non-Mulan, not having received tattoos in another domain. Rashemi, however, can't have any tattoos nor inscribe them.

Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2024, 10:41:22 PM »
Ah, thank you for the clarification with XIX.

XX would fall under that 'crime' still though.

Day Old Bread

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2024, 11:25:11 PM »
It is a given that non-mulan tattooed monks in Hazlan, especially Rashemi, will face consequences. What form it will take remains to be seen. Could be an OCR spike or a RP oriented interdiction for non-Mulan to wear "Sacred Lawgiver Sanctionned" tattoos. If you have more ideas let us know.

It is a no for the centipede tattoo. Shadow Walk is not supported on the server, hence the tattoo won't be. It is not a HiPS equivalent and Shrouded Dance remains available to all monks/tattooed monks through the regular investments.

I think something akin to what happens in D'Loo would be good here. How the people there scoff at armor and sorcerous magic, but don't instantly attack. It'll allow for more RP implications instead of hard mechanical issues.

Maybe they can't hit the regular shops and inns as well?

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2024, 11:31:26 PM »
It is a given that non-mulan tattooed monks in Hazlan, especially Rashemi, will face consequences. What form it will take remains to be seen. Could be an OCR spike or a RP oriented interdiction for non-Mulan to wear "Sacred Lawgiver Sanctionned" tattoos. If you have more ideas let us know.

It is a no for the centipede tattoo. Shadow Walk is not supported on the server, hence the tattoo won't be. It is not a HiPS equivalent and Shrouded Dance remains available to all monks/tattooed monks through the regular investments.

I think something akin to what happens in D'Loo would be good here. How the people there scoff at armor and sorcerous magic, but don't instantly attack. It'll allow for more RP implications instead of hard mechanical issues.

Maybe they can't hit the regular shops and inns as well?

This though most shops/Inns won't rent to Non Hazlani PCs anyway.
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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2024, 01:20:21 PM »
I'm pretty excited about this, I hope we'll be able to remake our monks when it's out.
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