Author Topic: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk  (Read 2115 times)

FinalHeaven

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2024, 01:26:31 PM »
I'm pretty excited about this, I hope we'll be able to remake our monks when it's out.
Already been confirmed a few posts up that existing Monks will not be given a rebuild, alas.



Cassius

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2024, 01:33:27 PM »
I'm pretty excited about this, I hope we'll be able to remake our monks when it's out.
Already been confirmed a few posts up that existing Monks will not be given a rebuild, alas.
Depends on the argument and the DM team's calling. If you can justify reasonably, it is in the realm of possibilities to be approved, but redefining a character concept or picking it solely for mechanical benefits is probably not going to slide.

MAB77

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2024, 01:52:10 PM »
It is already a rule that all remake requests for the purpose of acquiring levels in a newly added class be denied.

And if you think it through, it is definitively something you should be conscious to never do. Doing so bypasses content and any efforts that goes into gaining a prestige class. Whereas characters should always and only grow into the role organically, gaining levels 1 at a time, and using the efforts to gain the PrC as a mean to promote RP and enhance the shared narrative.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2024, 01:58:54 PM by MAB77 »
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FinalHeaven

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2024, 02:01:39 PM »
I am now more confused, and I don't even play a Monk.  Godspeed to those that do.



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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2024, 06:28:31 PM »
It is already a rule that all remake requests for the purpose of acquiring levels in a newly added class be denied.

And if you think it through, it is definitively something you should be conscious to never do. Doing so bypasses content and any efforts that goes into gaining a prestige class. Whereas characters should always and only grow into the role organically, gaining levels 1 at a time, and using the efforts to gain the PrC as a mean to promote RP and enhance the shared narrative.

Do you mean "for the sole purpose of acquiring levels in a newly added class"? I think, for instance, if someone was level 12 when the new class dropped, it might be worth applying. But if they are already lvl 20, well that seems like a completely different story.

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2024, 08:47:39 PM »
You can probably ask for a delevel and work your way into it.

Any partially levelled monk is already at the door anyway. Further levels into it are the effort.

MAB77

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2024, 09:20:03 PM »
I suppose my gripe is more about those that abuse the relevel system to gain more than a single PrC at a time. And that goes for all PrCs, not just the tattooed monk. I would not mind that a level 12 or lower character using the @relevel command to retake that last level as a tattooed monk (provided thay have the prerequisite).


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Janarah

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2024, 09:10:48 AM »
I can understand the worry about abuse, but the simple fact is an older toon did not have the possibility to 'organically' grow into the new class, since it didn't exist prior. Telling someone to delevel (of which the only way I know of is to die repeatedly and more or less exploit the respawn system since requests for deleveling so far as I've ever seen are always denied) isn't viable. Asking someone to delevel and relevel from the ground up is quite honestly just a method to discourage someone from playing on what is already an unforgiving gaming experience that takes months to over a year.
The argument could easily be made that if the class were available then that route would have been taken. I can completely understand the multiple prc thing, but to be honest on a lvl 20 server, I don't think any amount of relevels or remakes is going to make that much of a difference on any toon even if they're fully geared out - which takes a long time to do.

It looks neat, but I don't think I have the endurance to start over from lvl 2 to embark on the year + long journey of leveling and gearing up to test or have fun with it myself, especially considering that you have to be weary of more than just npc monsters during that time period.
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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2024, 10:58:33 AM »
Very excited for this, will be awesome.

William Roberts

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2024, 12:50:44 PM »
Quote
The simple fact is an older toon did not have the possibility to 'organically' grow into the new class, since it didn't exist prior....The argument could easily be made that if the class were available then that route would have been taken.

True.

Nevertheless, if one (correctly) views the server as primarily about RP and creating a character's story, then it makes little sense for a character that far along in a story suddenly to have it "rebooted" so drastically.

Quote
I don't think I have the endurance to start over from lvl 2 to embark on the year + long journey of leveling and gearing up to test or have fun with it myself.

That's sort of the point of a new class, though--so players can create new concepts within new parameters. If players just take old characters and "bum rush" them through the levels, it sort of moots the effort Devs are making to provide fresh content.

FWIW, I have a long-time high level monk PC myself. It would be inexplicable IC--as much as I might enjoy it gamewise--for him suddenly to turn into someone completely different than he has been for the past nine or 10 years.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2024, 12:52:15 PM by William Roberts »


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MAB77

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2024, 02:06:05 PM »
And you will most certainly be able test the class to your heart's content on the test server in due time without need to spend time leveling up.

That being said, it will remain possible to existing monk players to submit a remake request. Whether or not it will be accepted will be the DMs' prerogative.
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Cyber Viking

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2024, 07:46:04 PM »
Very excited for this new PRC and will.be making an app as soon as it goes live.

However looking at the traits the tattoos give in the SRD they are either already given to the monk class or are lacking in any viable reason to take the class. It doesn't feel like a good PRC.

The 5e version has some more refined tattoos which would be great to draw inspiration from maybe a mix of the 2 editions to make something perfect for PoTM.

Either way I am excited to see what the devs come up with and the new possibilities for maybe even a tattoo artist craft or for magic tattoo artist NPCs.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2024, 07:47:37 PM by Cyber Viking »


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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2024, 09:14:53 PM »
Very excited for this new PRC and will.be making an app as soon as it goes live.

However looking at the traits the tattoos give in the SRD they are either already given to the monk class or are lacking in any viable reason to take the class. It doesn't feel like a good PRC.

The 5e version has some more refined tattoos which would be great to draw inspiration from maybe a mix of the 2 editions to make something perfect for PoTM.

Either way I am excited to see what the devs come up with and the new possibilities for maybe even a tattoo artist craft or for magic tattoo artist NPCs.

I thought the same thing, but as MAB mentioned, most of the tattoos are unique to the PrC. Additionally, I believe they said this will NOT be application locked so you'll be ready to roll as soon as it drops.

MAB77

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2024, 09:42:17 PM »
I thought the same thing, but as MAB mentioned, most of the tattoos are unique to the PrC. Additionally, I believe they said this will NOT be application locked so you'll be ready to roll as soon as it drops.

He likely means the remake application. No pre-existing characters should ever trade base class levels for new PrC levels without cause and approval from the DM team.

As for a tattoo parlor, if anyone wants to flex their modding muscles and play with the toolset, I'd be thrilled to see what the community comes up with.
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Cyber Viking

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2024, 09:45:56 PM »
Very excited for this new PRC and will.be making an app as soon as it goes live.

However looking at the traits the tattoos give in the SRD they are either already given to the monk class or are lacking in any viable reason to take the class. It doesn't feel like a good PRC.

The 5e version has some more refined tattoos which would be great to draw inspiration from maybe a mix of the 2 editions to make something perfect for PoTM.

Either way I am excited to see what the devs come up with and the new possibilities for maybe even a tattoo artist craft or for magic tattoo artist NPCs.

I thought the same thing, but as MAB mentioned, most of the tattoos are unique to the PrC. Additionally, I believe they said this will NOT be application locked so you'll be ready to roll as soon as it drops.

As long as it's on similar viability as the other non app locked PRCs that will be good. Or even if it was too powerful making it app locked. Not sure what I would prefer. The road to leveling a monk is definitely not an easy time. Hopefully the addition of this PRC makes monk a bit more on balance with the other classes. Might make the journey of 2 - 16 less of a struggle.


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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2024, 09:48:34 PM »
I thought the same thing, but as MAB mentioned, most of the tattoos are unique to the PrC. Additionally, I believe they said this will NOT be application locked so you'll be ready to roll as soon as it drops.

He likely means the remake application. No pre-existing characters should ever trade base class levels for new PrC levels without cause and approval from the DM team.

As for a tattoo parlor, if anyone wants to flex their modding muscles and play with the toolset, I'd be thrilled to see what the community comes up with.

I'm on the fence now about a re-level app. I might hang out at the current level till the PRC come out or drop one via Enchanting rather than app for it but will see what happens.


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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #41 on: April 22, 2024, 09:52:01 PM »
I thought the same thing, but as MAB mentioned, most of the tattoos are unique to the PrC. Additionally, I believe they said this will NOT be application locked so you'll be ready to roll as soon as it drops.

He likely means the remake application. No pre-existing characters should ever trade base class levels for new PrC levels without cause and approval from the DM team.

As for a tattoo parlor, if anyone wants to flex their modding muscles and play with the toolset, I'd be thrilled to see what the community comes up with.

I'm on the fence now about a re-level app. I might hang out at the current level till the PRC come out or drop one via Enchanting rather than app for it but will see what happens.

I think the strength will be on par with current monk. It looks like it'll just add some variability to play and flavor.

Cyber Viking

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2024, 10:04:49 PM »
I thought the same thing, but as MAB mentioned, most of the tattoos are unique to the PrC. Additionally, I believe they said this will NOT be application locked so you'll be ready to roll as soon as it drops.

He likely means the remake application. No pre-existing characters should ever trade base class levels for new PrC levels without cause and approval from the DM team.

As for a tattoo parlor, if anyone wants to flex their modding muscles and play with the toolset, I'd be thrilled to see what the community comes up with.

I'm on the fence now about a re-level app. I might hang out at the current level till the PRC come out or drop one via Enchanting rather than app for it but will see what happens.

I think the strength will be on par with current monk. It looks like it'll just add some variability to play and flavor.

I mean thinking about it Lvl20 monk in PoTM is not great for the perfect self feat. You only gain immunity to mind effect spells. DR is replaced with Enchanted gear and glowing eyes just become a OCR pain. So with a mind blank potion and Enchanted clothing what's the point of 20?

Empty body? Ethereal Jaunt is nice but why level past this?

Ki strike +3, useless, Enchanted gloves over takes and at this level you need +5 to hit anyway.

Quivering palm yea this one is OK except majority of the server enemies are immune to this. Making it about as useful as a 1 time use sneak attack in a land of undead.

Ki strike +2, useless, Enchanted gloves overtakes.

Lvl 13 - 20 are not great or equal to the other classes on the server at the same level.

I think that alot of people will take tattooed monk because of this. I would be awesome to have it so the PRC doesn't over take the monk levels but say like when you hit 20 then you get the eyes and the mind immune and DR, BUT if your a tattooed monk dependinging on what tatts you have there is some other flavor added which makes that more desirable.

Probably too hard to do.
Maybe just the tattoos raise the OCR and there is magic in them it makes the eyes glow sooner. Making more time for OCR RP with PCs that aren't lvl 20 beasts.

I love the idea of tattooed monk and it could have alot of awesome points if it fixes the shortfalls that the server has in regards to the class.

Especially if there is opportunity for various different kinds of monks not just red purple and blue monks. For a martial class that has terrible feat progression tattooed monk will definitely be a desired PRC.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2024, 12:28:49 AM by Cyber Viking »


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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #43 on: April 23, 2024, 08:56:57 AM »
To note, we don't app gate classes because of mechanical power. If that were the case, Arcane Archer would never have made it off the list, nor would Assassin be on it. A lot more of it is to do with specific roleplay requirements and potential for being disruptive and/or cheesy.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2024, 09:01:40 AM by bloodless »

MAB77

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #44 on: April 23, 2024, 09:27:04 AM »
[...]I love the idea of tattooed monk and it could have alot of awesome points if it fixes the shortfalls that the server has in regards to the class.[...]

Out of curiosity, what are the shortfalls you see in that class?
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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #45 on: April 23, 2024, 01:09:38 PM »
[...]I love the idea of tattooed monk and it could have alot of awesome points if it fixes the shortfalls that the server has in regards to the class.[...]

Out of curiosity, what are the shortfalls you see in that class?

I think the short falls are that after 13 the feats that the class provides are over shadowed by things existing in the server making monks quality of life limited.

For example thier ki strike is easily over taken by Enchanting. Making the +2 and +3 feats useless since we can start Enchanting at level 14 and adamantine gauntlets give a +3, the ki strike feat is pointless. Not to mention at lvls 16+ the monsters you are fighting require +4 or +5 to hit making GMW a requirement.

The damage reduction monks get at 20 is also over taken by enchanted misty threads which can be acquired at lvl 14.

Quivering palm is also only effective against sneak attackable enemies making the monks super punch useless in the higher level dungeons in Sithicus, Hazlan & Ghastria.

These are the points that I think are where the monk class falls flat in regards to PvE and viability on the server. Other points could be made but tha is far too nit picky and there needs to be class balance and diversity to which 1 class isnt OP.

I think that these points are where existing things on the server make that 13-20 monk useless as by level 14 you can enchant your way up to those feats that are given.

For a class that by dedicates it's self to self perfection, alignment restrictions and uses a limited supply of weapons and armor if any at all it seems that monk gives the least amount of contribution to a party.

Monks don't quite fit and it doesn't make sence since that it doesn't seem to pay off for them.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2024, 01:28:28 PM by Cyber Viking »


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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #46 on: April 23, 2024, 03:32:47 PM »
Ki strike does effect AB I don't think it would be that game breaking to have +4 & +5 ki strikes. It's really just saving a wizard a spell slot.

If quivering palm effected undead and constructs and ran off stunning Fist rather than once per day.

If the perfect self 20 dr was not +1 but +5 or +6

I think that would make things alot more desirable and those higher levels monks more of a help to the party at higher levels


MAB77

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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #47 on: April 23, 2024, 03:41:43 PM »
Ah I misunderstood, I thought you meant shortfalls of the Tattooed Monk which is what I am interested in. I disagree with some of your stance about the standard monks, they also have great resiliency and speed which make up for their perceived weaknesses, but this thread is not about that and nothing is about to change for standard monks.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2024, 04:01:42 PM by MAB77 »
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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #48 on: April 23, 2024, 04:44:40 PM »
Ah I misunderstood, I thought you meant shortfalls of the Tattooed Monk which is what I am interested in. I disagree with some of your stance about the standard monks, they also have great resiliency and speed which make up for their perceived weaknesses, but this thread is not about that and nothing is about to change for standard monks.

Ah fair enough. In the tattooed monks there are some things that won't apply to the monk class but I'd rather wait to see what the dev team comes up with in regards to the feats before commenting.


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Re: Upcoming PrC: Tattooed Monk
« Reply #49 on: May 25, 2024, 03:42:21 AM »
Found this:
https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/12336519/35-index-classes-prestige-chet-erezs-d20-index-files/7
Page 133-134 is all about Tattooed Monk.
There are also some other things in there about other monk prestige classes that could be useful.