Author Topic: HP threshold for lowering saving throws?  (Read 988 times)

Wilkins1952

  • Society of the Erudite
  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 720
  • For good to win evil must do nothing
Re: HP threshold for lowering saving throws?
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2024, 06:46:15 PM »
Caster DCs being buffed in some aspect would be good. Right now unique and interesting spells like Flesh to Stone. Baleful Polymorph have next to zero use be that in PVP or PVE. Even taking into account using spells like Energy Drain and Enervation to decrease the saves. a caster is  never going to be able to use them to do what they are intended to do. Neutralise a threat in a battle. Instead most rely on the same method of "Ward slaves." Or Just cast Cloud spells. Which to me just pidgeon holes a PC into either being useful or useless rather than the variety that casters should have.

How I'd see to Improving DCs would be to remove a lot of the immunities that PVE enemies have. Level drain immunities/ and Decreased saves overall for PVE content I feel would be the best way to let DC spells and effects see some more use.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2024, 06:48:06 PM by Wilkins1952 »
"Its like watching people walk up to the line for "Be excellent to each other" and seeing how far they can spit across it." -GMNO

Bizarro

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • But I am still the Darkness
Re: HP threshold for lowering saving throws?
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2024, 09:49:12 PM »
Having hp damage lower saves will only make invocation and damaging spells EVEN a better option. On paper it might look like it could open a door for dominate spells and death effects, but it doesn't, what it does is give another incentive to stack slows and throw fireballs or what it will be on the mobs, since the more damaged they are the lower their reflex save will be.
What I'm saying is that the ones that will gain more from a mechanic like this aren't illusionists, charmers or necromancers, it's warmages.

And I RESPECTFULLY think we don't need this since blade barriers are already scary enough as they are.

SardineTheAncestor

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1790
Re: HP threshold for lowering saving throws?
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2024, 12:08:21 AM »
I've seen a lot of control and damage spells be highly useful in PvE and in PvP. Even a 5% chance to fail something is not one the target wants to have to repeat. In my experience if a roll can be failed, you can count on it happening.

Mages have consistently put dungeons higher level than them through the ringer by targeting the weak saves of the enemies there. Warmage and warlock made it even more insane.

At some point spells get so good that teamwork is undermined and party makeup doesn't matter too much.

The classic "meta" of buffing classes doesn't exist because their offensive spells are weak. It's because the rest of the server can't really do dungeons cost efficiently or even safely complete them without the help of the classes that can solo farm those same dungeons.
Insatisfait permanent, c'est ça l'apanage du champion.

BraveSirRobin

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 2159
  • "Common sense is not so common." - Voltaire
Re: HP threshold for lowering saving throws?
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2024, 02:40:04 PM »
I've seen a lot of control and damage spells be highly useful in PvE and in PvP. Even a 5% chance to fail something is not one the target wants to have to repeat. In my experience if a roll can be failed, you can count on it happening.

Mages have consistently put dungeons higher level than them through the ringer by targeting the weak saves of the enemies there. Warmage and warlock made it even more insane.

At some point spells get so good that teamwork is undermined and party makeup doesn't matter too much.

The classic "meta" of buffing classes doesn't exist because their offensive spells are weak. It's because the rest of the server can't really do dungeons cost efficiently or even safely complete them without the help of the classes that can solo farm those same dungeons.

I think part of that stems from the economy. If you took a Fighter in their mid-teens and they had a cheap supply of potions, there's a lot of content that they can genuinely solo without a second thought. However, it's financially unviable. Ninjalooters just solo content for the things most people want, since you can get XP in many ways other than dungeons, so they too, can solo.

Idk what it's like today, but trap soloing used to be a big deal. That's how they used to ninjalooted Sithicus before the rework some years back.

At the end of the day, it's a conversation of money vs. xp for solo'ing, if you're stealth-capable, you can get all the money, but little to no XP. If you're a Fighter, you can go Geralt of Rivia and chug and glug in most dungeons, but not ones which include dispelling enemies. If you're a Monk you can just run through the dungeon, and if you're a Monk in the Red Vardo, you can run through the dungeon and pick most of the locks and steal everything then run back out, possibly stealthed as well.

There's a lot of creative solutions on the server depending on just what you want to get out of it, and that's before we stumble back to higher-level characters clearing out low-level dungeons solo to take the loot, which has also been a thing, and to my knowledge isn't exclusively against the server rules (or wasn't before,) so that's also an option for money without blowing tonics.

PoTM tries hard to avoid it, but where there's a whip will there's a way.

Anarcoplayba

  • Red Academy
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1670
Re: HP threshold for lowering saving throws?
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2024, 03:44:50 PM »
Not that it should be the main preocupation of the developers, but a system that applies penalties based on hp would be hell on server resources. Just think that you'd beed to check hp of every character every second to calculate the penalties.
Noignar Huillen: Ilmater Cleric.
Hedien Gine: Arrow and Bow Artist.
Dolin Schneim: Dwarven Soldier

Legebrin

  • Outlander
  • **
  • Posts: 71
Re: HP threshold for lowering saving throws?
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2024, 07:53:59 PM »
I absolutely love the idea, lets invent this and delete all the offensive spells that has no save dc after that. Such as IGMS for example, orbs of force and all that crap!
« Last Edit: January 02, 2024, 07:58:31 PM by Legebrin »

Abear

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 742
  • You are not a human being.
Re: HP threshold for lowering saving throws?
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2024, 11:34:55 AM »
[]...delete all the offensive spells that has no save dc after that. Such as IGMS for example, orbs of force and all that crap!

so based
Current: Sásha Kostoviç
Occasionally: Blair Florescu


Wolrath

  • Outlander
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: HP threshold for lowering saving throws?
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2024, 11:11:27 AM »
Main issue on this is related to PVP side of the game.
Despite all the blame when some spells were nerfed actually wizzos and co can literally one/bi shot any build that didn't packed on tons of HP's and this regardless saves.
In the past, that was even more easy, and it happened so many times that now grand part of combat builds are focused to resist spells via pumping their saves to the exasperation literally removing from the table lots of variants and possibilities, cause everytime a pvp sprouts on you know that it takes really a blink to be corpsed regardless all.
And that is not even achieved by studying a particulary effective build, is just... "I buy this scroll so i can blow ye up"

I know is frustrating to have lots of spells that are no more than icons in your spellbooks and that you will never use cause "they never land" .

Perhaps diminishing the damage of certain spells but giving the wizard a way to increase even further the DC may be good.  And some RNG on random effect proc?
Active: Zalbaag Hyrule- Salmour Crovas
Sometime: Wolrath / Greeven / Ixivill

MAB77

  • Developers
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 6528
Re: HP threshold for lowering saving throws?
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2024, 10:34:06 PM »
Commenting on the original proposal only. The official D&D rules are very clear that the loss of hit points has no impact on a character until it drops to 0 or less.

Quote from: Player's Handbook, p136, Injury and Death section
Your hit points measure how hard you are to kill. No matter how many hit points you lose, your character isn’t hindered in any way until your hit points drop to 0 or lower. [...]

What Hit Points Represent: Hit points mean two things in the game world: the ability to take physical punishment and keep going, and the ability to turn a serious blow into a less serious one. For some characters, hit points may represent divine favor or inner power. [...]

It's a bit ironic if you think about it though. So HP represents more than health, it also covers stamina with the rules telling us that you are not seriously injured until you drop to 0, but at the same time the spells to restore HP are named Cure Wounds. As would say a certain Black Knight: "it's only a flesh wound".
Best Regards!
MAB

Dev. Relationist for the Dark Powers.
1 Castle Road, Castle Ravenloft, Village of Barovia.