New Base Class - Shaman

[MAB77]

In regards to domains, there are some Eberron faiths that I think would be appropriate for Shaman, since some of them don't venerate deities per se.

The first one that comes to mind is the Undying Court, which reveres their deathless ancestors (both corporeal and incorporeal), so I could see a Shaman as one who specializes in communing with the incorporeal ones. Good and Protection are the Court's domains as listed in the faith resources here.

Just to be clear, these will merely be the suggested packages at character creations for those wishing to let the game pick the default settings on level ups and character creation. Most players will not use those, though for the shaman I am trying to configure them to be viable options.

You will certainly be free to play a shaman from Eberron and pick different skills, feats and domains within what will be allowed in the rules. The section Guide to Patron Spirit explains what is the current plan in that regard.

[Kireek]

Maybe make a theoretical animal companion revive spell a class ability that is gotten at level 7 at the earliest, super awkward for a druid or ranger to dip into the class to get at that point.

If the H2H situation for the class improves, I'd also of included things like circle kick and stunning fist in the list I drafted up, but.. I can't recommend them until that comes up honestly. Perhaps it could be implemented akin to a barbarian rage style ability...? Hm.

[MAB77]

Maybe make a theoretical animal companion revive spell a class ability that is gotten at level 7 at the earliest, super awkward for a druid or ranger to dip into the class to get at that point. [...]

It's already there. The Repose domain grants the Raise Dead spell sooner.

[MAB77]

We will be adding more unique spells to the shaman's repertoire in the next test server update. Full write-up and details will be presented then, but in a nutshell:

Honorable Weapon (tbd): +1 EB vs undead for every 4 caster levels (max +5).
Rebuke (2): Verbal rebuke stuns target creature, bypassing mind-spell immunity.
Substitution (3): Half the damage you take is transferred to a figure of a spirit or deity.
Blood of Fire (5): Shamans take minute damage (2 HP) to shoot up to four blood missiles deal 2d8 damage each. (Ranged touch attack, no saves)

[Avarice]

I have a hard time imagining a shaman without chain heal, chain lightning, windfury or totems.

[MAB77]

We're not World of Warcraft and it has already most (if not all) of the healing spells ingame.
Chain Lightning is available to shamans through the Air domain.
As for totems, this is an entirely RP thing. I'll check if we have, or can add, any to the carpentry system.

[ShadowOfHavoc]

From what I have seen this class seems to lacka niche, and I can't really see myself choosing it as starter class at the moment due to that. Everything it can do another class does and in most cases does better. The only thing I find interesting and unique are its summons but summoning on Ravenloft is dangerous due to the potential for the summon to be hostile. Would it be possible to give them a feat that reduces that likelihood of that occuring? I feel like if they got a feat similar to the firearm feats that reduces the chance of a backfire this class could really shine.

[MAB77]

If you summon a spirit ally that turns hostile on you, report it because that will be a bug.

[Kireek]

So, interestingly, all 3 of the greater spirits have some... while not problems, I'd say they have unique experiences that can be a bit unpleasent.

1. The Greater Good Spirit spends way too much time casting to self buff- perhaps these could be condensed into a small permeneant aura.. this would fit well with the fact that the other 2 spirits have auras of their own.

2. The neutral spirit's aura affects EVERYTHING, even non-enemies, which means the neutral spirit has a nasty habit of squirrel hunting. I would actually outright state that I would consider this a bug.
 
3. The evil spirits fear aura is fun, but I'm curious if the spriit chasing enemies around is actually costing it duration or not?

[Ryujin]

When i played around with the spirits it just cast mass aid, then lucent lance, then went into melee only.
This was the greater good spirit, btw

[Kireek]

So on the Evil Spirit, The problem I am consistently having is that when the aura works consistently, it just creates sheer pandamonium, everyone goes off in every direction, and it just spreads throughout the zone, the spirit is chasing people, the animal companion is chasing people, it becomes this huge liability. It is a powerful ability, sure, but only if the enemies are too weak to really be a threat, or too strong to realistically consistently fail a save.

Maybe include a 50%  movement speed reduction the fear effect to stop the pure chaos.

I think the neutral aura's dc is too low to really ever come up except when using the spirit to solo things, and that spirit power basically makes everything way too easy.. so may I suggest changing it to a debuff to attack/damage or something? As a curse effect...

The good one could have a scaling 1-3 bonus to attack/damage/ac/saves in like a 10/20/30 foot range... but each +1 bonus would be typed differently, so one is morale, 1 would be luck, and one would be untyped, so that it isn't nearly as broken as it sounds, as it could be overridden..

Maybe the evil one could reduce enemey saves passively?

[MAB77]

It is more likely that they need to be changed for something else period. If anyone wants to help, load the toolset and try devising spirits good, neutral and evil spirits at 6, 12 and 18 HD. The ally is not restricted to be an ancestral spirit. Just don't go for elementals and outsiders as we have spells summoning those already. These are the only requirement.

The more submissions I get the best chance we have to get useful summons.

[MAB77]

For the time being I have deactivated the auras on the greater spirits, it will be live next time the test server is updated. Let me know how they perform without and if you feel they need a bit more to be reasonably useful in battle let me know.

[EO]

We've loaded a new version of the hak containing several fixes and new spells for shaman. You can find the detailed list of new spells here.

[Adnihilo]

I don't think the spell substitution works as it should since currently it makes you a god that can only be taken down by dispelling.
I threw myself naked at a bunch of scrags and a balor and they couldn't lay a finger on me for the duration.
I am unsure if it is supposed to summon somthing or not

Spoiler: show

[EO]

I don't think the spell substitution works as it should since currently it makes you a god that can only be taken down by dispelling.
I threw myself naked at a bunch of scrags and a balor and they couldn't lay a finger on me for the duration.
I am unsure if it is supposed to summon somthing or not

Spoiler: show

Yeah, they shouldn't stack. I'll fix that.

[EarlofEtheria]

Spirit Sight isn't activating OCR triggers like spellcasts should. Unless this is getting the Hexblade Curse treatment and turning vfxless (honestly I'd prefer this).

Shaman gets Polymorph at spell level 4, but if you pick Animal domain you also get Polymorph at level 5. I suspect this is an oversight and domains being funny, but I feel like that's unintentional.

I know it's been mentioned, but Corpsecrafter and subsequent feat line should really work on the spirits (if they remain undead). I also think the whole Spirit Ally line needs a HD/BAB boost to capstone their role as a Shaman feature. Introduce "Minor Spirit Ally" as a 3rd lvl spell, as the lowest spirit presently on the test server is balanced for that level range.

The shaman summons compete with Animate Dead (Undeath Domain) & Summon Creature (Animal Domain). Awaken is also on the shaman spell list so... yeah.

lvl 12 Feat boosted Summoned Dire Bear (4th Spell Level, Animal Domain) +18/13 ATK, 2-8 + 9 +1d6 Cold dmg
lvl 6 Watchful Lesser Spirit Ally (4th Spell Level) +6 ATK, 1-4 + 3 + 1d4 Force dmg, no spells that I saw it use.
lvl 12 Contemplative Spirit Ally (6th Spell Level) +10/+5 ATK, 1-6 + 4 + 1d6 Force dmg, and some cool spells that probably justify a use.

Power Attack on the Contemplative Spirit also plummets its attack rating to an unfeasible 5/0, and the Justicar to 4/-1 in the improved power attack. About 50% of its rounds will be in one of these modes.

If I had to say what the Neutral Spirit Ally line should look like:

lvl 6 Observant Minor Spirit Ally (3rd Spell Level) +6 ATK, 1-4 + 3 + 1d4 Force dmg, no spells
lvl 10 Watchful Lesser Spirit Ally (4th Spell Level) +10/+5 ATK, 1-6 + 5 + 1d6 Force dmg, no spells
lvl 12 Contemplative Spirit Ally (6th Spell Level) +12/+7 ATK, 1-8 + 6 + 1d8 Force dmg, spells
lvl 18 Justicar Ancestral Spirt (8th Spell Level) +18/+15 ATK, 1-10 + 9 + 1d8 Force dmg, spells

...and no power attack, since they aren't fighter BAB creatures.

[MAB77]

Spirit Sight isn't activating OCR triggers like spellcasts should. Unless this is getting the Hexblade Curse treatment and turning vfxless (honestly I'd prefer this).

Shaman gets Polymorph at spell level 4, but if you pick Animal domain you also get Polymorph at level 5. I suspect this is an oversight and domains being funny, but I feel like that's unintentional.

I know it's been mentioned, but Corpsecrafter and subsequent feat line should really work on the spirits (if they remain undead). I also think the whole Spirit Ally line needs a HD/BAB boost to capstone their role as a Shaman feature. Introduce "Minor Spirit Ally" as a 3rd lvl spell, as the lowest spirit presently on the test server is balanced for that level range.

The shaman summons compete with Animate Dead (Undeath Domain) & Summon Creature (Animal Domain). Awaken is also on the shaman spell list so... yeah.

lvl 12 Feat boosted Summoned Dire Bear (4th Spell Level, Animal Domain) +18/13 ATK, 2-8 + 9 +1d6 Cold dmg
lvl 6 Watchful Lesser Spirit Ally (4th Spell Level) +6 ATK, 1-4 + 3 + 1d4 Force dmg, no spells that I saw it use.
lvl 12 Contemplative Spirit Ally (6th Spell Level) +10/+5 ATK, 1-6 + 4 + 1d6 Force dmg, and some cool spells that probably justify a use.

Power Attack on the Contemplative Spirit also plummets its attack rating to an unfeasible 5/0, and the Justicar to 4/-1 in the improved power attack. About 50% of its rounds will be in one of these modes.

If I had to say what the Neutral Spirit Ally line should look like:

lvl 6 Observant Minor Spirit Ally (3rd Spell Level) +6 ATK, 1-4 + 3 + 1d4 Force dmg, no spells
lvl 10 Watchful Lesser Spirit Ally (4th Spell Level) +10/+5 ATK, 1-6 + 5 + 1d6 Force dmg, no spells
lvl 12 Contemplative Spirit Ally (6th Spell Level) +12/+7 ATK, 1-8 + 6 + 1d8 Force dmg, spells
lvl 18 Justicar Ancestral Spirt (8th Spell Level) +18/+15 ATK, 1-10 + 9 + 1d8 Force dmg, spells

...and no power attack, since they aren't fighter BAB creatures.

Thank you for the update.

As Spirit Sight is a supernatural ability and not a spell it is normal it has no OCR increase associated to it. You make a good point on the fact it might be better to make it vfxless, it will be considered.

The necromantic feats will not apply to summoned spirits for several reasons. The main one being that you are not using necromancy to summon your ally but conjuration. This is as per the sourcebook. It's not life or death energy you are manipulating here. What constitute a spirit for a shaman is very broad and large and though I went with ancestral spirits, I really could have gone with something different. Yes ancestral spirits are undead by virtue of not being among the living anymore. But the idea behind the corspecrafting feats is that they apply to undead the character creates.

Thank you for the feedback on the spirit allies strength. It will be considered.

[EarlofEtheria]

From the Spirit Shaman class in Complete Divine (an adjacent class to this one), here's a list of what counts as a Spirit according to the manuals. Maybe some of this info can be added to the Shaman roleplay guide?

WHAT IS A SPIRIT?
Several of the spirit shaman's abilities affect spirits. For purposes of the spirit shaman's ability, a "spirit" includes any of the following creatures:

* All incorporeal undead;
* All fey;
* All elementals;
* Creatures in astral form or with astral bodies (but not a creature physically present on the Astral Plane);
* All creatures of the spirit subtype (see Oriental Adventures);
* Spirit folk and telthors (see Unapproachable East);
* Spirit creatures created by spells such as dream sight or wood wose.

In the spirit shaman's worldview, elementals and fey are simply spirits of nature, and incorporeal undead are the spirits of the dead.

[MAB77]

Sure good idea.

[Primeape]

Perhaps this works as intended, due to whatever evil intentions of the dark powers. But the lesser spirit summoned by a neutral shaman is evil by alignment. Should it be instead a neutral aligned spirit?

I don't know if the good-aligned shamans have the same base spirit also.

[MAB77]

Perhaps this works as intended, due to whatever evil intentions of the dark powers. But the lesser spirit summoned by a neutral shaman is evil by alignment. Should it be instead a neutral aligned spirit?

I don't know if the good-aligned shamans have the same base spirit also.

Odd I thought I had that fixed, but yes a neutral shaman is supposed to summon a neutral aligned spirit. I'll get this fixed.

[Primeape]

Another point regarding the spirit -summoning line. Not sure if this is an intended design choice, or an oversight. The Spirit Ally -Spell does  not receive benefit from the augment summoning -feat.

I did try to read some older posts regarding the augment summon -feat, relevant to other "summon like" -spells but I didn't feel confident that the past examples gave a clear answer, since the feat apparently affects some summons (Summon monster I-IX, Planar Binding?), but not all of them.

Edit: Upon further realization, the spirit is actually of the "undead" subtype. Intended or not, but the necromancy line of feats would then be applicable I assume?

[MAB77]

No, spirit ally is a conjuration spell therefore Augment Summon should work. And I was told it was working following the latest adjustments to the class. I will investigate.

The necromantic feats do not apply, as it is not a creature you created.

[Day Old Bread]

I was playing around with some ideas for a Shaman and during characther creation noticed that Curse domain has a descriptor for (cleric and shaman) but that it is not among the chooseable options in the shaman writeup.



Are shaman meant to be able to choose curse? If not, I'm curious as to why, since it is not a domain that is restricted to a particular faith like Mists or Binding or Weave.