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Author Topic: Conflicting information, polymorph disguise  (Read 635 times)

Krosenq

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Conflicting information, polymorph disguise
« on: August 16, 2023, 09:04:32 AM »
I would love to have some clarification on an issue that's been bugging me lately. It's an issue with regular disguise slots vs polymorph ones.

Reports from players suggest that piercing a polymorph disguise while a player is transformed (with or without true seeing) will not reveal the name of a player.

On the other hand, piercing a regular disguise slot of a polymorphed player, even without true seeing, will reveal their name.

So:

1. True seeing does not seem to have an effect on piercing polymorph disguises, even when the description explicitly states that this is part of its function

2. Polymorph slots seem to be the only type of disguise slot that protects your identity when polymorphed. Previous posts from EO seem to suggest that all disguise slots are functionally the same (see screenshots). Which one is it? Are the slots different? What is the intended behavior?

It's worth noting that MoMF gets bonus disguise slots as a class feature. If the slots aren't the same, shouldn't these be changed to polymorph slots?






« Last Edit: August 16, 2023, 09:07:47 AM by Krosenq »
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Krosenq

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Re: Conflicting information, polymorph disguise
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2023, 11:11:57 AM »
Okay, disregard this, as it's all been explained to me by devs.

Polymorph and disguise slots are exactly the same in terms of mechanics. The polymorph slot is just a free bonus slot with a different name.

True sight does help you pierce disguises of polymorphed people and identifies them, provided you can beat their disguise with a spot check.
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bloodless

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Re: Conflicting information, polymorph disguise
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2023, 11:15:48 AM »
That is not my experience with the system. With true sight up, and spot in the mid 40s, I have never once actually pierced a polymorph disguise beyond the system telling me that it is actually a disguise for a magical something. Even when it does that, however, it doesn't reveal either the original name or description as regular disguise slots do.

Branchie

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Re: Conflicting information, polymorph disguise
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2023, 11:17:01 AM »
That is not my experience with the system. With true sight up, and spot in the mid 40s, I have never once actually pierced a polymorph disguise beyond the system telling me that it is actually a disguise for a magical something. Even when it does that, however, it doesn't reveal either the original name or description as regular disguise slots do.

^Seconding. I've experienced the same thing, and I have a very high spot level Druid.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2023, 11:18:51 AM by Branchie »

ladylena

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Re: Conflicting information, polymorph disguise
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2023, 11:34:24 AM »
That is not my experience with the system. With true sight up, and spot in the mid 40s, I have never once actually pierced a polymorph disguise beyond the system telling me that it is actually a disguise for a magical something. Even when it does that, however, it doesn't reveal either the original name or description as regular disguise slots do.

^Seconding. I've experienced the same thing, and I have a very high spot level Druid.

Actually going back to the last time I was playing a spot character, Erzsebet Varga, even with true sight potions all I ever saw for anyone polymorphed was a note that they were not a real animal and a disguise by something magical, basically the same that others are saying. I could get erzse into the 60s for spot. So there may be something going on with the polymorph disguise if it's supposed to reveal the name of the mage/user
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Madame Trousers Son

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Re: Conflicting information, polymorph disguise
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2023, 11:37:01 AM »
Polymorph Disguises should never give the real name; if that's happening then it sounds like a bug.
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Krosenq

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Re: Conflicting information, polymorph disguise
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2023, 11:55:21 AM »
Polymorph Disguises should never give the real name; if that's happening then it sounds like a bug.

I think it's the other way around--if it doesn't give you the name when you fail the spot check, and have TS up, then that's the bug.

This is in the description of true seeing:

The target also sees the true form of polymorphed, changed, or transmuted creatures. This only refers to changes created through spells or spell-like powers, not supernatural or extraordinary abilities.
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Merry Munchkin

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Re: Conflicting information, polymorph disguise
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2023, 12:11:26 PM »

I think it's the other way around--if it doesn't give you the name when you fail the spot check, and have TS up, then that's the bug.



Is that a mistype?  I think you mean if you succeed in the spot check AND have true seeing up, you are supposed to pierce the polymorph disguise?


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Madame Trousers Son

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Re: Conflicting information, polymorph disguise
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2023, 12:14:34 PM »
If people want to test things, I'm happy to volunteer a high Spot PC...
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Mark Johansen

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Re: Conflicting information, polymorph disguise
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2023, 12:18:00 PM »
The way the system is intended is that if your character is able to beat the disguised DC of a polymorped/shapechanged individual and you're under the effect of true seeing you will be able to identify the person. Keep in mind that true seeing is requirement for this but also that the same rules apply for when you break an disguise. You don't magically know who people are unless you've seen them before and know their name.

With this said it does seem like there's something wonky going on atm. in regards to the true seeing and i'm investigating this.

Krosenq

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Re: Conflicting information, polymorph disguise
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2023, 12:55:09 PM »

I think it's the other way around--if it doesn't give you the name when you fail the spot check, and have TS up, then that's the bug.



Is that a mistype?  I think you mean if you succeed in the spot check AND have true seeing up, you are supposed to pierce the polymorph disguise?
Yes, apologies. Succeed indeed.
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zDark Shadowz

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Re: Conflicting information, polymorph disguise
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2023, 03:17:20 PM »
Do note that if true seeing is saying this in its description

This only refers to changes created through spells or spell-like powers, not supernatural or extraordinary abilities.

That a druid's wildshape is considered "Supernatural" in D&D, so it should be the case you can't identify the level 5 druid cat beyond being a magically altered cat.

Understanding that wild shape is supernatural and true seeing can't pierce that is the takeaway here.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2023, 03:19:18 PM by zDark Shadowz »

Madame Trousers Son

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Re: Conflicting information, polymorph disguise
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2023, 04:57:22 PM »
Nor werecreatures. Good point. Only Polymorph/Shapechange. I assume the Warlock's Invocation ones would also be pierced, as would the Zombie one...
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EO

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Re: Conflicting information, polymorph disguise
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2023, 09:00:41 PM »
I've tried to fix this. Can anyone check if True Seeing gives you a different message now when trying to pierce disguise?

EO

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Re: Conflicting information, polymorph disguise
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2023, 12:16:14 PM »
I've tried to fix this. Can anyone check if True Seeing gives you a different message now when trying to pierce disguise?

Bumping this since we never got feedback. A character with True Seeing on should be able to know a polymorphed (not wildshaped, but polymorph with the spell Polymorph/Shapechange) character is polymorphed.