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Author Topic: A look at unsafe places  (Read 1136 times)

umtic

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A look at unsafe places
« on: August 09, 2023, 05:58:17 PM »
Hi

There are some places that are considered unsafe. If you log off on those places, after a few minutes, you're ported to your last safe location. The issue is that there are some places withe the wrong tag -- I have no idea if it's a tag or not.

Area before Krafsbourg, where there's a total of zero danger, you get ported to your last safe location.

The battleground betwen spiders, magical cats, and undeads: log in and you're dead.

My suggestion is to take a look at some of those places. Either there's no safe place to logout or it should be OOC clear. Because logoff is an OCC action.

Cheers!
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RedMoney

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Re: A look at unsafe places
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2023, 06:00:46 PM »
A lot of the unsafe/safe log out zones are based on people exploiting reset timers of ore veins and other resources rather than whether the area is ICly "safe".

umtic

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Re: A look at unsafe places
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2023, 06:02:27 PM »
I have no idea of what you mean.

You can unlog at the area before Krafsbourg at any time and you'll be ported to your last safe place. On the other had, try to log on that particular battleground.
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zDark Shadowz

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Re: A look at unsafe places
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2023, 06:06:46 PM »
That mountain pass should probably be set for the teleport, list the exact area name and devs can look into it (though if enemies were nearby unknowingly or spawned in already by someone else, depending on where you were, this could override the function to prevent "logging out to avoid death").

As for the bend in the road before the Krofburg tent city, this remains dangerous simply because the three crag cats are often dragged into this area from the adjoining one I suspect. Though it could probably be worth looking into as well, with again, exact area name so the developers can find it in their toolset quickly.

Anarcoplayba

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Re: A look at unsafe places
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2023, 06:08:01 PM »
I have no idea of what you mean.

You can unlog at the area before Krafsbourg at any time and you'll be ported to your last safe place. On the other had, try to log on that particular battleground.

It was stated before that the safe/unsafe log out is related to exploitation, not meant to be a shortcut (although used many times as shortcut).

My tip is: never assume a safe spot and log off somewhere safe or at least with an exit route.
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umtic

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Re: A look at unsafe places
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2023, 06:24:53 PM »
That mountain pass should probably be set for the teleport, list the exact area name and devs can look into it (though if enemies were nearby unknowingly or spawned in already by someone else, depending on where you were, this could override the function to prevent "logging out to avoid death").

As for the bend in the road before the Krofsburg  tent city, this remains dangerous simply because the three crag cats are often dragged into this area from the adjoining one I suspect. Though it could probably be worth looking into as well, with again, exact area name so the developers can find it in their toolset quickly.

I'll note the name of the area the next time I'm on it and I'll post it here. When I logged out there were a lot of enemies around. Considering the next quote, I'd like to go deeper on this :

[/quote]

It was stated before that the safe/unsafe log out is related to exploitation, not meant to be a shortcut (although used many times as shortcut).

My tip is: never assume a safe spot and log off somewhere safe or at least with an exit route.
[/quote]

OOC happens. Say you're far from any clearly safe place and you need to log because you have whatever imperative on your life, but you'd like to have the game on a reasonable state of safety. So you walk to that area where you should be OK. All the enemies are dead, or perhaps you're invisible and stealth with 68+ skill.
Whatever the case, you have no danger on your char when you log off, just to log in with no wards and an army of different creatures types on your neck.

I'll surely assume no safe place to log off at this point. What I'm asking is that we have clear signs on those places because OOC happens. I'm really sorry people abuse it. Thais lack of clarity, though, feels more like an invitation to abuse mechanics. Example: now everyone reading this post know they can get a job on delivering silver without walking the mountain.

It seems to me that a little attention is in order ;)

PS: I have no idea how to quote two messages tu-dum-tssss
« Last Edit: August 09, 2023, 06:27:27 PM by umtic »
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Anarcoplayba

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Re: A look at unsafe places
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2023, 06:41:25 PM »
Oh, everything is "exploitable". In this particular case, the question is what is the goal.

Iirc, what tge devs want with the dungeon log system is to avoid repeated ninjaloot or dungeon farming. This is a bigger value to the server than an ooc facilitation.

But being a little more pragmatic, that area (the spider, undead, lich tower crossroad) should be marked as dungeon area, imo, because it allows to exploit those three dungeons.
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Merry Munchkin

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Re: A look at unsafe places
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2023, 09:54:43 PM »
Or exploit a lot of free spider silk glands once everyone kills each other off.  Not bad if you are a tailor.


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Rocket

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Re: A look at unsafe places
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2023, 12:34:26 AM »
There is a player that repeatedly dungeon logs the area before krofburg to do deliveries to drain.

myrddraal

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Re: A look at unsafe places
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2023, 01:10:23 AM »
There is a player that repeatedly dungeon logs the area before krofburg to do deliveries to drain.

that sounds like an exploit that needs fixing and a player that needs addressing...

Skelni

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Re: A look at unsafe places
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2023, 04:38:49 AM »
Some areas could probably be due for re-examining. I know the transition area between the start of the cold part for Baratak counts as a dangerous zone (the one with the mist spawn) despite all it's surrounding zones not being counted.

I'd also just say don't assume or worry about people who are "exploiting" zones for, I guess fast travel in that case? Seldom is it not just faster to walk or run distances than it is to log out for an extended period of time. Probably more of a player addressment situation if it's truly seen as problematic.
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myrddraal

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Re: A look at unsafe places
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2023, 09:46:09 AM »
Some areas could probably be due for re-examining. I know the transition area between the start of the cold part for Baratak counts as a dangerous zone (the one with the mist spawn) despite all it's surrounding zones not being counted.

I'd also just say don't assume or worry about people who are "exploiting" zones for, I guess fast travel in that case? Seldom is it not just faster to walk or run distances than it is to log out for an extended period of time. Probably more of a player addressment situation if it's truly seen as problematic.

Skipping over the dangerous part of the night and getting more gold / hour isnít cheesing and worth addressing?  Just because there might be better ways to make money doesnít mean abusing it should be just shrugged at either.  Can I D log around hostile enemies attacking me to go safely back to camp with my stolen goods?  Nay.

apeppertoo

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Re: A look at unsafe places
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2023, 10:18:32 AM »
Skipping over the dangerous part of the night and getting more gold / hour isnít cheesing and worth addressing?  Just because there might be better ways to make money doesnít mean abusing it should be just shrugged at either.  Can I D log around hostile enemies attacking me to go safely back to camp with my stolen goods?  Nay.

I find it hard to believe that logging out for at least fifteen minutes and getting shunted to the mist camp or whatever is faster than staying logged in and walking to where you need to go. So I also don't believe it'd be more gold/hour. Maybe slightly more gold per time spent logged in, but who cares?
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Zyemeth

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Re: A look at unsafe places
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2023, 11:05:20 AM »
Skipping over the dangerous part of the night and getting more gold / hour isnít cheesing and worth addressing?  Just because there might be better ways to make money doesnít mean abusing it should be just shrugged at either.  Can I D log around hostile enemies attacking me to go safely back to camp with my stolen goods?  Nay.

I find it hard to believe that logging out for at least fifteen minutes and getting shunted to the mist camp or whatever is faster than staying logged in and walking to where you need to go. So I also don't believe it'd be more gold/hour. Maybe slightly more gold per time spent logged in, but who cares?

Agreed. This isn't someone getting ahead IC or saving IG time. It's being more productive with OOC time management. If someone would rather take a leak or make the kids a snack while logged out and take twice as long to return to base in doing so then power to you and God speed.

umtic

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Re: A look at unsafe places
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2023, 12:55:06 PM »
On that particular case, it could be considered an exploit because the player will skip a mist spawn if they're doing it at night. Could get a lot of silver back to Vallaki without any danger. For a low level char, it's not bad.

Beyond that case, I don't think a clear state on whether an area is safe or not is in any way detrimental. We should not impose cryptic rules because of a few bad players. Logging out knowing you be safe when you log in is not a luxe, it's part of a game played online.

The one case that originated this post:
I was coming back from the barataki tower when something came up IRL. I decided to go down the road a few areas, so delaying what I had to deal with OOC, to log out on a place that I supposed would be safe. I was not trying to be ported to Vallaki, and the prove is that I didn't log back until almost 24h later. I know what most of you are thinking, why not log off inside the tower? Because I guessed I had the time to go back to Vallaki, at first. When I understood I did not, I walked to the closest place with a lot of enemies. Also, it's important to note that the char was invisible and hidden, so there was a total of zero risk when I logged out.
It was very frustrating to log in without any wards in the middle of that huge battle ground.

Now that I think of it, I suppose i was still hiding when I logged on. I don't know, the whole thing made me tremble and I did click on the stealth button.

I don't see my actions as an exploit in any way, but I'm open to other interpretations.

My point is... Actually I have two points:
1. Areas should be checked for the danger tag
2. The OOC aspect of the tag should be clear. A place where there are always enemies? Dangerous, you're gonna get ported. Otherwise, you're could be in a pickle later.
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Skelni

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Re: A look at unsafe places
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2023, 01:10:03 PM »
2. The OOC aspect of the tag should be clear. A place where there are always enemies? Dangerous, you're gonna get ported. Otherwise, you're could be in a pickle later.

I guess all I would say to this is. The risk should probably have been pretty evident if you log off in the middle of a bunch of corpses. Regardless if an area might take you somewhere else or not when you log in, it seems a bit brash to log off in the middle of an area where a bunch of things just died because, they're probably gonna spawn again then. Is that not a clear enough indication of danger?
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umtic

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Re: A look at unsafe places
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2023, 01:13:07 PM »
2. The OOC aspect of the tag should be clear. A place where there are always enemies? Dangerous, you're gonna get ported. Otherwise, you're could be in a pickle later.

I guess all I would say to this is. The risk should probably have been pretty evident if you log off in the middle of a bunch of corpses. Regardless if an area might take you somewhere else or not when you log in, it seems a bit brash to log off in the middle of an area where a bunch of things just died because, they're probably gonna spawn again then. Is that not a clear enough indication of danger?

I guess I wasn't clear. My point is that that area, as dangerous as it obviously is, should make a good spot to log out since the server has the teleporting from dangerous places feature. If it had not, I'd had no point at all.
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Skelni

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Re: A look at unsafe places
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2023, 01:15:23 PM »
I guess I wasn't clear. My point is that that area, as dangerous as it obviously is, should make a good spot to log out since the server has the teleporting from dangerous places feature. If it had not, I'd had no point at all.

I think the real point of the replacement of when you log out for long enough was really designed with dungeons in mind, not random zones (as you have pointed out already). I don't think areas you traverse should probably be subject to this mechanic in the first place. So I'd argue that should probably be the first thing to address.
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umtic

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Re: A look at unsafe places
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2023, 01:19:03 PM »
You have a good point. Perhaps I'm aiming on something that is against the philosophy behind the feature.
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bloodless

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Re: A look at unsafe places
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2023, 01:19:16 PM »
That this is a convenience feature is a misconception and byproduct of the system's actual purpose, which is to ensure that people don't spawn camp dungeons. It should not be used to intentionally fast travel in the first place.

Rocket

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Re: A look at unsafe places
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2023, 06:42:49 PM »
Grab very heavy deliveries from krofburg that would take your weak character 30+ minutes to haul without ox.
Teleport to drain in 18 minutes.
There is a player that repeatedly did this maybe 4 times a day on repeat.

Crowl

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Re: A look at unsafe places
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2023, 06:45:20 PM »
There is a player that repeatedly dungeon logs the area before krofburg to do deliveries to drain.

There's also a player that ninjaloots and logs out in the dungeon... To make it easier to get back to town and sell... (Or complete the delivery, if you would).

... Can you imagine...
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blackpage

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Re: A look at unsafe places
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2023, 06:52:06 PM »

There's also a player that ninjaloots and logs out in the dungeon... To make it easier to get back to town and sell... (Or complete the delivery, if you would).

... Can you imagine...

I think you missed the point completely. Drain deliveries when abused are a one way trip, and people abuse them. It's been brought up in another thread, so I'm not going to get into it.

MAB77

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Re: A look at unsafe places
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2023, 07:09:09 PM »
Grab very heavy deliveries from krofburg that would take your weak character 30+ minutes to haul without ox.
Teleport to drain in 18 minutes.
There is a player that repeatedly did this maybe 4 times a day on repeat.

Sounds to me that we could fix that by having delivery items to disappear when the dungeon logging script kicks in.
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Rocket

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Re: A look at unsafe places
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2023, 07:15:44 PM »
There is a player that repeatedly dungeon logs the area before krofburg to do deliveries to drain.

There's also a player that ninjaloots and logs out in the dungeon... To make it easier to get back to town and sell... (Or complete the delivery, if you would).

... Can you imagine...

I can imagine a great many thing.

We would probably rationalize that ninjalooting, mining lots of ore, etc is the sweat spent to earn the worth and dungeon logging does not skip this work.
But when doing a delivery and circumventing the sweat - the distance to travel - that is defeating the cost of the delivery.