Author Topic: RNG for loot drops being weird  (Read 688 times)

Madame Trousers Son

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RNG for loot drops being weird
« on: August 01, 2023, 05:39:25 PM »
So I'm seeing a lot of duplicates or repeats on loot drops, whether it be ninjalooting or regular runs.

One example: I got two copies of the Armour of the Lily from the same chest, in the same run, in Perfidus; or I keep getting the Hammer of Vamos in Perfidus; or I frequently get the same items, e.g. multiple Swordsman's Belts or Courtier Obis.

I've started wondering if the RNG for loot drops has been changed and is maybe stuck in some patterns that make certain drops or duplicates/repeats more likely. Of course it could be just random, that's the nature of randomness. Has anyone else noticed such issues?
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zDark Shadowz

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Re: RNG for loot drops being weird
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2023, 06:32:57 PM »
Chests can get stuck on lowered fixed values if they are visited during the ninjalooted / repeated dungeon too soon timer (which any member in the party can influence, not just the loot opener.)

While the loot value is still split between potential outcomes, a lower value means many items are simply removed from the table entirely as theyre no longer possible, resulting in a much more limited selection. (This is why people who do barrows often start seeing a lot of Rod of Frosts, what else is it going to pick?)

Depending on the table this can cause the same items to appear far, far more often.

That two armor of the lily could show in one chest means they are both valued at half or less than half of what the chest was set to.

Madame Trousers Son

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Re: RNG for loot drops being weird
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2023, 10:15:23 PM »
To be clear, this happens after resets, so the idea that this is a ninjalooted/repeated dungeon isn't applicable here.
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zDark Shadowz

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Re: RNG for loot drops being weird
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2023, 10:29:17 PM »
(Deleted, nvm, who can really say*)
« Last Edit: August 01, 2023, 10:31:14 PM by zDark Shadowz »

NacreCicatrix

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Re: RNG for loot drops being weird
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2023, 11:14:09 PM »
I remember this bug rearing its head a few years ago - I'd get multiples of witch hunter armor in every drop in another location.
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Di Infernis

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Re: RNG for loot drops being weird
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2023, 11:17:12 PM »
I did a few high level content recently and the loot seemed fine with some and thematic but redundant loot in certain dungeons. For example, the desert dungeons have mostly the same things all the time. I didn't encounter anything wrong in my last time in Perfidius last week.

Chadyo

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Re: RNG for loot drops being weird
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2023, 03:59:29 AM »
Yesterday myself and Octavius had 5 Scimitars of the fool which was an insane amount at the same time, in Hoteb in Har'akir.

Madame Trousers Son

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Re: RNG for loot drops being weird
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2023, 04:29:16 AM »
I propose that this thread be used to document strange duplication/repeats in loot drops henceforth! Please give your examples. (Ideally with screenshots.)
« Last Edit: August 02, 2023, 04:41:53 AM by Madame Trousers Son »
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Grendlykins, Simp of Azalin Rex

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Re: RNG for loot drops being weird
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2023, 05:24:13 AM »
I think it would be preferable if these reports were sent directly to the DM team; examples such as the Courtier's Obi which is an auction-worthy item being dropped in multiples is the kind of bug that is easily exploited by players.

Madame Trousers Son

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Re: RNG for loot drops being weird
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2023, 05:43:45 AM »
I'll be cautious with the valuable items but mostly it's vendor-trash.

e.g.

Multiple Threshers of the Beast dropping in the Black Watch dungeon; in this run I had two in one chest and a third in another chest.
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Bounty

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Re: RNG for loot drops being weird
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2023, 07:13:54 AM »
I had 4 scarabs of protection drop while ninjalooting thoth the other day (all from individual chests). Thought it was just a fluke (it is absolutely possible for that to occur naturally, but unlikely), but maybe there is actually something strange going on with the loot table, judging by all those reports?

cooachlyfe

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Re: RNG for loot drops being weird
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2023, 11:20:08 AM »
I think it would be preferable if these reports were sent directly to the DM team; examples such as the Courtier's Obi which is an auction-worthy item being dropped in multiples is the kind of bug that is easily exploited by players.

How is it easily exploited when it's random?

Grendlykins, Simp of Azalin Rex

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Re: RNG for loot drops being weird
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2023, 01:43:46 AM »
How is it easily exploited when it's random?

If players are submitting their anecdotal experiences of which dungeons are frequently populated with specific duplicates of loot, other people can head to those dungeons and clear them with a higher chance of getting their preferred outcome; someone just pointed out an example in Thoth that suggests exactly this kind of thing is possible. Whether this is actually random or not is still unknown; getting four instances of the same specific item in one dungeon from four separate containers implies that the randomisation itself is broken, not just offering up four copies of the same loot item in one chest.

The truth is ultimately only known to the staff however; if one of them wants to run the mathematical chances of getting four Scarabs in one run of Thoth legitimately, I'd expect the number to be staggeringly unlikely.

cooachlyfe

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Re: RNG for loot drops being weird
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2023, 02:11:20 AM »
I mean I once got 3 Hector finger bangles in a shipwreck run pre-loot nerf. And that was just doing it normally, not exploiting or some metagame knowledge other than shipwreck is good exp and drops good loot. I think it's a bit disingenuous to think people will be farming dungeons that may or may not be duping items, when the duping is completely random and they would be farming these dungeons anyway because of good exp and loot. Now if this duping this happened -everytime- or more often than not when doing the dungeon, I would agree with you, but since it's so rare and most of the time what is duped is vendor trash, seems like a non-issue. I'll admit, 4 scarabs is strange but I would even argue how would anyone even know that? We know nothing about the loot system other than a few posts deep in old threads.

Bounty

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Re: RNG for loot drops being weird
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2023, 04:34:08 AM »

I have been noticing this lately, mainly in the temple of Thoth. I get an absurd amount of scarabs of protection +2 most runs.

The most i have gotten was 5 in one run, with often 2 spawning in the same container.

Edward

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Re: RNG for loot drops being weird
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2023, 09:41:54 AM »
I have also seen this happening, I got two juggernaut crowns from the same loot pile, a rare item.

Hemlock

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Re: RNG for loot drops being weird
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2023, 01:30:59 PM »
I've also had similar experiences with Thoth recently, particularly with the abundance of red scarabs. Have seen three per attempt, some with a party, other times alone.
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Maiyannah

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Re: RNG for loot drops being weird
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2023, 04:40:38 PM »
This kind of thing is indicative of the local entropy on the machine being low, as NWN just uses the local random() function for pseudorandom number generation.  There isn't much to do for it but either to pace yourself and hope others do too, or hope a reset gives the underlying machine is able to shore up it's random generator in the time that it takes to reset.
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Crowl

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Re: RNG for loot drops being weird
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2023, 07:07:48 PM »
I've also had similar experiences with Thoth recently, particularly with the abundance of red scarabs. Have seen three per attempt, some with a party, other times alone.

Not me. I've been there recently and I have not found anything of note, which was surprising. This happened a few times now.
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