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Author Topic: Radu Pierces invisibility.  (Read 696 times)

Hallows Elf

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Radu Pierces invisibility.
« on: June 21, 2023, 12:14:54 AM »
Sneaking around the outskirts and having a clandestine convo suddenly Radu emerges at 5am and starts his "get out of here etc." barks at me across the street while I'm invisible with 15 OCR.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2023, 12:17:33 AM by Hallows Elf »
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Grendlykins, Simp of Azalin Rex

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Re: Radu Pierces invisibility.
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2023, 01:03:48 AM »
Sneaking around the outskirts and having a clandestine convo suddenly Radu emerges at 5am and starts his "get out of here etc." barks at me across the street while I'm invisible with 15 OCR.

Being that Radu doesn't normally detect invisible characters my assumption is that someone cast See Invisibility on him. Players can buff NPCs, fun fact.

Hallows Elf

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Re: Radu Pierces invisibility.
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2023, 01:23:40 AM »
Sneaking around the outskirts and having a clandestine convo suddenly Radu emerges at 5am and starts his "get out of here etc." barks at me across the street while I'm invisible with 15 OCR.

Being that Radu doesn't normally detect invisible characters my assumption is that someone cast See Invisibility on him. Players can buff NPCs, fun fact.

Was told that would be ignoring NPCs would it not? If that's the case.
Active PCs:
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Barhador Fain - Moon Elf
Rasvan Geldis - Giamarga

Grendlykins, Simp of Azalin Rex

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Re: Radu Pierces invisibility.
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2023, 01:25:05 AM »
Probably, since NWN doesn't respect the PnP rules regarding consent of spells. But it seems the most likely culprit.

Hallows Elf

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Re: Radu Pierces invisibility.
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2023, 01:27:53 AM »
Probably, since NWN doesn't respect the PnP rules regarding consent of spells. But it seems the most likely culprit.

Welp, didn't really notice anyone doing it but been a lot of rule breaking lately so not surprised.

Doesn't explain him attacking me while I'm in the green.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2023, 01:32:45 AM by Hallows Elf »
Active PCs:
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Rasvan Geldis - Giamarga

Grendlykins, Simp of Azalin Rex

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Re: Radu Pierces invisibility.
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2023, 01:45:51 AM »
OCR 15/16 is the break point for NPC reactions. Most NPCs flee at OCR 15, some go hostile at 16, I think Radu goes hostile at 15.

Hallows Elf

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Re: Radu Pierces invisibility.
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2023, 03:04:43 AM »
OCR 15/16 is the break point for NPC reactions. Most NPCs flee at OCR 15, some go hostile at 16, I think Radu goes hostile at 15.

Yeah, just chalking it up to shenanigans, I try not to even be in the skirts by 5am anyways.
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Chadyo

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Re: Radu Pierces invisibility.
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2023, 06:30:37 AM »
Someone slipped a little see invis potion into his morning tsuika...

All jokes aside, forcing him to drink a see invisibility potion is NPC ignoring, and casting see invisibility on him is also NPC ignoring. If this keeps happening then it might be worth it to create a report to a DM but for a once off I would brush it off as maybe an accidental AOE cast gone wrong.

ladylena

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Re: Radu Pierces invisibility.
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2023, 07:24:17 AM »
If you are close enough to someone they can see you. So maybe that is what happened?
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Chadyo

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Re: Radu Pierces invisibility.
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2023, 10:04:10 AM »
If you are close enough to someone they can see you. So maybe that is what happened?

Doesn't work on NPC's only on players, when you are invisible NPC's will -never- see you from a mechanical point of view. (Don't do this, it's still ignoring NPC's even if they don't respond to it. Have to assume that an NPC would do anything a PC can do.)

I have just been told that they do infact see you, and I stand corrected. I've accidently bumped into NPC's while invisible and polymorphed but I was hasted, it likely takes a little while for them to fully register you.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2023, 10:07:07 AM by Chadyo »

Grendlykins, Simp of Azalin Rex

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Re: Radu Pierces invisibility.
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2023, 05:27:00 PM »
They've already said in their first post that they were across the road from Radu at the time, so likely not the case.

SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Radu Pierces invisibility.
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2023, 08:28:30 PM »
How is it "ignoring NPCs" to buff an NPC with see invis? Can the DMs make that statement so we don't go judging each other for no reason?

I have just been told that they do infact see you, and I stand corrected. I've accidently bumped into NPC's while invisible and polymorphed but I was hasted, it likely takes a little while for them to fully register you.

They don't see but hear, they react to you as soon as the server registers it. It can be instant or it can take up to 6 seconds based on lag. This is not the same as the deliberate delay built in for a player waking up from unconsciousness for example.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2023, 08:32:03 PM by SardineTheAncestor »
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Grendlykins, Simp of Azalin Rex

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Re: Radu Pierces invisibility.
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2023, 02:50:13 AM »
How is it "ignoring NPCs" to buff an NPC with see invis? Can the DMs make that statement so we don't go judging each other for no reason?

So, here's the thing. NWN does not allow for consent, which most buff spells require; 'a willing creature' is the usual example. We accept this reality for players, because we have access to the @dispel command and the OOC choice to employ it; a Barovian PC for example could be hit by an invisible Wizard with a Ghostly Visage buff and then OOC decide 'I'm going to run to the Garda and beg for help to be saved from being a ghost', or to immediately use the @dispel command because they would not consent to it working in the first place; player's choice.

NPCs have no ability to do this; the interaction requires a DM present to say whether or not the spell would actually work in the first place, which in most circumstances the assumption is 'no'. Hence, ignoring NPCs.

SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Radu Pierces invisibility.
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2023, 03:02:34 AM »
I don't see anything for See Invisibility saying it requires the target to consent or be willing, nor do I see any way to dispel beneficial spell effects.

I do see "willing creature" for tons of other spells. The rulebook makes a distinction.

Players have @dispel for a different reason than consent, and that has to do with technical reasons and convenience. I don't see why there would be a band-aid retcon to imply consent is required for all buffs. The dev team could just say that if they wanted that.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2023, 03:04:17 AM by SardineTheAncestor »
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Grendlykins, Simp of Azalin Rex

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Re: Radu Pierces invisibility.
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2023, 03:12:05 AM »
I don't see anything for See Invisibility saying it requires the target to consent or be willing, nor do I see any way to dispel beneficial spell effects.

I do see "willing creature" for tons of other spells. The rulebook makes a distinction.

Players have @dispel for a different reason than consent, and that has to do with technical reasons and convenience. I don't see why there would be a band-aid retcon to imply consent is required for all buffs. The dev team could just say that if they wanted that.

The reason See Invisibility lacks the 'willing creature' requirement is because, as per the rulebooks it is a personal spell.

SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Radu Pierces invisibility.
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2023, 03:15:13 AM »
But then there's spells like Barkskin which are not personal spells and do not have consent or willingness of the target mentioned.
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Grendlykins, Simp of Azalin Rex

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Re: Radu Pierces invisibility.
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2023, 03:32:30 AM »
Spoiler: show
»\_(ツ)_/»






Chalk it up to an inconsistency when the spells were written. There /are/ caveats to the 'willing creature' ruling in 3.x, such as unconscious creatures being automatically considered as 'willing' even if contextually if they were awake they'd never agree to whatever people are doing to them. If the staff would like to make an official ruling on the server's interpretation on the absolute abyss spell consent is and how it applies to NPCs I'm more than happy to hear it, but in the absence of such a ruling it is safe to assume that in a general sense most spells require consent and therefore most Barovian NPCs are not going to consent, for obvious reasons.

If the staff ever decide to rule otherwise, I look forward to my future Gnomish Beguiler whom runs around 'cursing' the local folk with various harmless but highly entertaining visual spells.

SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Radu Pierces invisibility.
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2023, 03:36:53 AM »
I just think if it was a blanket rule it'd just be a blanket rule and it should be mentioned, they can draft it if they want, but grey areas are no cause to crucify one another, one way or the other.
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Grendlykins, Simp of Azalin Rex

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Re: Radu Pierces invisibility.
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2023, 03:45:47 AM »
I just think if it was a blanket rule it'd just be a blanket rule and it should be mentioned, they can draft it if they want, but grey areas are no cause to crucify one another, one way or the other.

Nobody is being crucified, here. If you suspect someone to be violating rules, report them, simple. This thread was about Radu being able to see through invisibility, before the tangent.

SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Radu Pierces invisibility.
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2023, 03:54:25 AM »
The tone of some earlier posts did insist that there's been a lot of rule breaking lately, I didn't suspect anyone.
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Grendlykins, Simp of Azalin Rex

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Re: Radu Pierces invisibility.
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2023, 04:45:24 AM »
The tone of some earlier posts did insist that there's been a lot of rule breaking lately, I didn't suspect anyone.

If by 'a lot of rule breaking', you mean the process of elimination and assuming that one person buffed Radu with See Invisibility presumably being a rule break, then sure.

SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Radu Pierces invisibility.
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2023, 04:56:46 AM »
It's just a lot of assuming really and overall none of this is worth overthinking, I understand threads like this can be made due to the frustration of not being able to be in the outskirts as a high OCR character, but presuming this and that doesn't add anything or help solve the big mystery.

If I were to use the process of elimination I would consider the likelihood of some invisible mage using mass see invis and Radu happened to be in the range, because people buff behind that house all the time. At the end of the day no serious issue happened and if the staff wants to make a new rule clarification they can, that's S+.
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Philos

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Re: Radu Pierces invisibility.
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2023, 11:16:48 AM »
I think Sardine prob. has the right of it. If it continues to be an issue im sure the DM team would be happy to look over it, however in the mean time applying Hanlon's razor might be the best move.

Grendlykins, Simp of Azalin Rex

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Re: Radu Pierces invisibility.
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2023, 11:26:49 AM »
I think Sardine prob. has the right of it. If it continues to be an issue im sure the DM team would be happy to look over it, however in the mean time applying Hanlon's razor might be the best move.

In this case would that be Hanlon's razor suggesting that a code update accidentally broke something and Radu now has see invisibility always, or someone accidentally casting it on him?

Philos

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Re: Radu Pierces invisibility.
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2023, 02:19:31 PM »
Hanlons razor suggests do not attribute to malice what could be attributed to to ignorance. Somebody probably caught Radu in a mass see invis and picked up on somebody lurking in the outskirts with high OCR.