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Author Topic: Hak Update 2_29 - Detailed List of Changes  (Read 8058 times)

Solana Vafaren

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Re: Hak Update 2_29 - Detailed List of Changes.
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2023, 07:15:50 AM »
Considering every PC can reach high saves, making a DC caster effectively useless and now with force damage reduction from feats and items, I wonder how playing a high level caster besides warmage will feel after this. It seems to restrict the playstyle a lot. Not saying people should lean into PVP, but the fact that PC's can just resist one of the few tools that those classes had to defend themselves in such an encounter makes playing a higher level caster in those situations feel very underwhelming.

later edit : To clarify, this is a mechanical change that will change the power dynamics of IC interactions massively. On top of that, it would make certain builds effectively immortal, which isn't healthy and will never bring healthy RP. Moreover, for example, if an energy resist feat for force damage is implemented alongside items, in a fictive and also ridiculous scenario of a lvl 8 PC with this feat vs 10 wizard/sorcerer PC's casting empowered Isaac's for 5 minutes, the lvl 8 takes /0/ damage.

Moreover, due to how insanely powerful the benefits of such a feat and items is, the vast majority of the server has no reason not to build their characters in that direction, so in this case, casters simply become how people have mentioned in the past "wards slaves" or "ward bots", even if they are lvl 2 or 20.

just my 2 cents.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2023, 07:52:16 AM by Solana Vafaren »

cooachlyfe

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Re: Hak Update 2_29 - Detailed List of Changes.
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2023, 08:41:16 AM »
Yeah it's a caster nerf but I imagine this discussion needs its own thread entirely

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Re: Hak Update 2_29 - Detailed List of Changes.
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2023, 08:53:35 AM »
Quote
Does that mean that now there is the change and then the items/features will come on a later date? Will there be no way to resist it until you do?

I am deeply ignorant but i dont know if there is any ward or potion that can...

So, we've added two new types of damage:

Untyped: This is a damage "type" in DnD, basically damage that has no type. This type of damage can't be resisted. Most "magic" damage spells and effects, which already couldn't be resisted since we didn't have that type of item in have been converted to that damage type. Magic damage doesn't exist in 3.5.
Force: This is the damage type of many force spells (Orb of Force, Magic Missile, IGMS, etc.). Like other damage types we have, we'll eventually add gear to resist it.

So, if this is a nerf, it's only a nerf to a handful of spells (Orb of Force, IGMS, Magic Missile). The rest are actually stronger since they'll go through any form of resistance or immunity.

EarlofEtheria

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Re: Hak Update 2_29 - Detailed List of Changes.
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2023, 02:46:00 PM »
Went through and WASD checked every new tileset, bumping into surfaces and checking collisions:
Quote
Classic Dungeons: The collapsed tunnel tile sends the PC into the sky when approached.
Dungeons and Catacombs: Seemed fine, was raining underground which threw me off.
Keep Interiors: There's a wall without collision on the west side (connected the small tile without any archways leading inside). Maybe it's a feature??
Q Castle: The overhead light, pointing directly down to the floor vanishes fairly far away from it.
Sen's Outerior: The 'stone pits' can be WASD moved up/down traveling West -> East.
Versatile Dungeons: The inset down staircase (the kind in the big rooms) can be WASD moved through from West -> East, from above.

Also tested the Stag companion, summoning each and every level to make sure they worked. Seems functional. However...

The new familiars/companions lack the [?] select at level up tooltips that other companions have, outlining their progression, Skills, Feats. The descriptions displayed in the level up menus should go along the lines of:
Quote
This graceful creature moves in leaps and bounds. Its soft fur and delicate appearance betrays the ferocity and strength behind its movements.

Skills: Hide, Listen, Spot.
Feats: Alertness, Low-light Vision.
Special:
  Master Level
  3: Evasion
  6: Iron Will
  15: Improved Evasion

Bounty

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Re: Hak Update 2_29 - Detailed List of Changes.
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2023, 05:19:39 PM »
Eldritch claw gets dispelled when the character equips a shield or any other offhand like a torch, not sure if that is intentional or not. A offhand item is not a weapon and the character is still fighting unarmed, if it is intentional the description should reflect that both hands must be free to use it.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2023, 05:30:13 PM by Bounty »

apeppertoo

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Re: Hak Update 2_29 - Detailed List of Changes.
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2023, 05:40:28 PM »
So, if this is a nerf, it's only a nerf to a handful of spells (Orb of Force, IGMS, Magic Missile). The rest are actually stronger since they'll go through any form of resistance or immunity.

It happens to be a nerf to the only spell that can be relied on to deal any damage in PVP whatsoever, because the spells becoming untyped all have saving throws and will normally deal greatly reduced or zero damage in an even fight. In no sense were any of those spells made stronger since there isn't any magic damage resist in the game currently, or it's so rare that it might as well not exist. So the damage type changing from magic to untyped results in no practical change whatsoever.

I'm hearing no plans to address knockdown or saving throws, so this essentially pigeonholes my character into never trying to engage in conflict RP meaningfully.

I'm not looking forward to never posing a credible threat to anyone at or near my level again.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2023, 06:01:42 PM by apeppertoo »
Mariah Parsons

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Re: Hak Update 2_29 - Detailed List of Changes.
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2023, 09:22:34 PM »
Eldritch claw gets dispelled when the character equips a shield or any other offhand like a torch, not sure if that is intentional or not. A offhand item is not a weapon and the character is still fighting unarmed, if it is intentional the description should reflect that both hands must be free to use it.

This is indeed a bug. I'll fix this.

Quote
The new familiars/companions lack the [?] select at level up tooltips that other companions have, outlining their progression, Skills, Feats. The descriptions displayed in the level up menus should go along the lines of:

I'll fix this as well.

Onkel Bob

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Re: Hak Update 2_29 - Detailed List of Changes.
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2023, 05:31:01 AM »
Classic Dungeons: The collapsed tunnel tile sends the PC into the sky when approached.
Dungeons and Catacombs: Seemed fine, was raining underground which threw me off.
Keep Interiors: There's a wall without collision on the west side (connected the small tile without any archways leading inside). Maybe it's a feature??
Q Castle: The overhead light, pointing directly down to the floor vanishes fairly far away from it.
Sen's Outerior: The 'stone pits' can be WASD moved up/down traveling West -> East.
Versatile Dungeons: The inset down staircase (the kind in the big rooms) can be WASD moved through from West -> East, from above.

Thank you for reporting this. The rain is due to an erroneous area property, and I think the wall you mentioned in Keep Interiors is supposed to be illusory and is working as intended. I'll take a closer look at the other things you describe.
Portraits (updated 14/04/2024)

wwarlockk

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Re: Hak Update 2_29 - Detailed List of Changes.
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2023, 02:25:55 PM »
I am not sure if this was already addressed.  Dead eye just shows as a 1d4 dice instead of the correct damage.
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Re: Hak Update 2_29 - Detailed List of Changes.
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2023, 06:31:35 PM »
If you shapeshift into the spider or into the hellcat, the damage message in the logs just outputs the physical damage, but not the eldritch claws damage.

bloodless

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Re: Hak Update 2_29 - Detailed List of Changes.
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2023, 09:18:04 PM »
Quote
-Changed the damage type of Disintegrate, Eldritch Blast, Horrid Wilting, Magical Backlash, Painful Slumber of the Ages, Phantasmal Killer, Radiant Assault, Sunburst, Thalassemia, Thieves' Bane, Voracious Dispelling, Weird from Magic to Untyped damage.

As far as I understand, untyped is entirely unresistable damage. So how does this interact with targets under the effect of Ethereal Jaunt / Empty Body? That condition should only be subject to force damage and dispelling effects.

Madame Trousers Son

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Re: Hak Update 2_29 - Detailed List of Changes.
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2023, 09:40:50 PM »
I'm guessing "untyped = unresistable" in the DnD rules isn't the same as in the game engine and some effects will in fact resist it, otherwise people can go around killing player ghosts with it...
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remnar

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Re: Hak Update 2_29 - Detailed List of Changes.
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2023, 11:02:25 PM »
I am unsure if this is a test hak issue or a current server bug, so im going to post it here

I've found an odd bug that, when trying to choose the feat 'Resist energy', it does not appear in the feat list UNLESS you go into the feat list, back out of the level up menu, and then go back in.
This is done on a freshly made character in the test server, although to speed up the process (I have taken the opportunity to test the feat choices of a build) I have held down '1' upon entering the world to get through all the "Where are you from and what are your backgrounds" menus. (Which gives me Athasian Human and the actor and acrobat backgrounds)
I can also confirm this happens (4 levels earlier) if one takes great fortitude.  The same bug occurs. 
I have also done this with a Torillian human taking military trained and guard backgrounds.
It seems it can take multiple tries to cause resist energy to appear.  Because of this bug, as well, you can take resist energy at level 2 if you do a re-level!

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Cody

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Re: Hak Update 2_29 - Detailed List of Changes.
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2023, 11:35:03 AM »
Has the test server been updated with fixes?

MAB77

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Re: Hak Update 2_29 - Detailed List of Changes.
« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2023, 11:46:52 AM »
EO will let us know once an update is available.
Best Regards!
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EO

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Re: Hak Update 2_29 - Detailed List of Changes.
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2023, 12:02:14 PM »
Quote
As far as I understand, untyped is entirely unresistable damage. So how does this interact with targets under the effect of Ethereal Jaunt / Empty Body? That condition should only be subject to force damage and dispelling effects.

Ethereal Jaunt would block untyped damage unless it's from an Abjuration spell/ability or is a force effect/damage. There are some issues with the way these immunities are applied in NwN (eg. it shouldn't make you immune to Bigby's damage/effects).

Favee

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Re: Hak Update 2_29 - Detailed List of Changes.
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2023, 01:17:44 PM »
Raven animal companion has 3 strength, and 3 intelligence.  Though the 3 INT is likely correct I'd think Ravens are a touch smarter.

The strength however means they deal 1-3 -4 damage, resulting in a maximum of -1.  The hawk in comparison has 10 strength.
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Re: Hak Update 2_29 - Detailed List of Changes.
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2023, 01:22:56 PM »
Raven animal companion has 3 strength, and 3 intelligence.  Though the 3 INT is likely correct I'd think Ravens are a touch smarter.

The strength however means they deal 1-3 -4 damage, resulting in a maximum of -1.  The hawk in comparison has 10 strength.

This is working as intended actually. Ravens aren't all that smart in DnD: https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/raven.htm.

cooachlyfe

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Re: Hak Update 2_29 - Detailed List of Changes.
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2023, 02:42:21 PM »
Mobs that have magic (force) immunity:

Werewolves

Shadows

Bone Golems

Vampires

Greater Broken Ones (10 dr)

Just wondering if these are intended since they are in the Vallaki area

Edit: I'll just make this a running list
« Last Edit: April 08, 2023, 03:38:02 PM by cooachlyfe »

EO

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Re: Hak Update 2_29 - Detailed List of Changes.
« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2023, 07:59:00 PM »
Mobs that have magic (force) immunity:

Werewolves

Shadows

Bone Golems

Vampires

Greater Broken Ones (10 dr)

Just wondering if these are intended since they are in the Vallaki area

Edit: I'll just make this a running list

That's a bug for which there is already a fix pending in the next round of tests.

Atonas

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Re: Hak Update 2_29 - Detailed List of Changes.
« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2023, 11:40:28 AM »
Eldritch claw damage isn't shown on the combat logs when charcater has weapon finesse feat(on another character without finesse it was working fine). I think damage is applied, because deer don't have 1hp afaik. I tested on Dire Spiders too, it wasn't like 1 damage.


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Re: Hak Update 2_29 - Detailed List of Changes.
« Reply #46 on: April 09, 2023, 11:57:31 AM »
Eldritch claw damage isn't shown on the combat logs when charcater has weapon finesse feat(on another character without finesse it was working fine). I think damage is applied, because deer don't have 1hp afaik. I tested on Dire Spiders too, it wasn't like 1 damage.



Works fine for me, when i tried it on a finesse char. Did you make sure to select the development branch under the beta options on steam? The damage did not show for me in the combat log, when i was testing on a different patch.

Atonas

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Re: Hak Update 2_29 - Detailed List of Changes.
« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2023, 12:35:41 PM »
Eldritch claw damage isn't shown on the combat logs when charcater has weapon finesse feat(on another character without finesse it was working fine). I think damage is applied, because deer don't have 1hp afaik. I tested on Dire Spiders too, it wasn't like 1 damage.



Works fine for me, when i tried it on a finesse char. Did you make sure to select the development branch under the beta options on steam? The damage did not show for me in the combat log, when i was testing on a different patch.

Ah, I missed that part. I just changed it and tested again. It works fine. Thank you.

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Hak Update 2_29 - Updated List of Changes.
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2023, 12:50:24 PM »
We've loaded a new version of the hak and module on the test server. You can download the new version at the same link as before: here. Here are the changes:

New Content/Changes
-Implemented 9 animations from the Alternate Combat Pack and 1 crawling animation. Those can be toggled by typing @animation (@animation help for details). Those will require extensive testing to ensure they don't break anything.
-Added areas to showcase placeables.
-Added a new "system" damage to use for things like bleeding, logging back in, or spells that should set you at 1 or 0 HP.
-Removed duplicate visual effects.
-Added Mandrills to the wereape/gorilla's list of possible summons.
-Removed duplicate portrait entries in portraits.2da.
-Added several new books.

Fixes since last version
-Face in the Crowd should now appear in the feat radial menu.
-Damage bonus from Eldritch Claws, Dead Eye and Crossbow Sniper should now be calculated properly.
-Untyped and Force Damage will now function properly.
-Removed transparency from problematic clothing options.
-Expanded Aura of Courage's aura size has been fixed.
-Fixed a lighting issue with Castle Q.
-Added the missing tooltip information for new companions and familiars.
-Fixed an issue with the orientation of new umbrellas on the ground.
-Fixed broken chairs introduced with this hak update.
-Changed Eldritch Claws to only be removed when equipping a weapon.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2023, 02:24:28 PM by EO »

Lukey

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Re: Hak Update 2_29 - Detailed List of Changes.
« Reply #49 on: April 11, 2023, 01:36:38 PM »
I really think Dead Eye should apply to flintlocks as well. At higher levels where one shot isn't enough, it would certainly make flintlocks more viable for PvE.