Can we PLEASE get a Garda for Gabriel!!!!!!!!!

[Maiyannah]

Wrong.

There was a never a drift toward wasting time, RPing is not wasting time. If you believe that you are on the wrong server. Here, storytelling comes first, always. It always was the desire for it from the moment this server was created. It's been repeated countless of times here and in other posts, by me, by others, Soren, EO, Bluebomber, people with far far more experience than me etc.

The drift the staff, observes is far more that more & more players prefer an MMO style of play. Fast XP, fat loot, mad rush to level 20, convenience, easiness, no risks, no hard choices. That's were the drift is. It's fair that we each have our prefered style of play. But MMO style is not our intent for the server, we ARE consciously, willingly, most assuredly doing our best to go in a different direction. You do not have to like it, but that is the vision of the staff. We lost players because we made things too easy over the years too, you know.

While we have disagreed (vehemently, I think) on some past topics, this is one thing upon which I have to strongly agree with MAB.  If you regard roleplay as something only to be had in certain instances, then you are not going to have a good time on this server, and that is a conscious design choice.  Personally, I find it very immersion breaking to have some people whom will write at length when there's a distinct event and audience, and then descend into l337sp34k the moment a dungeon comes up.  Every moment in here is a roleplay opprotunity.  If that isn't your outlook not only are you missing out, but again, this isn't likely the server for you if that's your desire.

I mean, we had an instance of that in this thread: talking about breaking into the orphanage at night to do a dungeon.  What character of any sane temperment would do that?  What passerby of any conscience would see that and decide "yeah, that's okay"?  This kind of "MMO thinking" is not condusive to good roleplaying, and anything which discourages it is a good thing in my book.

I didn't come here for a MMO.  I'd be playing Final Fantasy XIV if that was my preference; and indeed I can find roleplaying there too.  The difference is my roleplay will have very little consequence there.  In a persistent world, every choice has consequence, and you best be willing to deal with them.  Roxane paid the ultimate price for one of hers.

I find the "some people have a life" argument a bit specious too.  Other than the weekend, I've been lucky to get 2-3 hours myself.  When I played Roxane, she was a garda, who by her very role was considerably more restricted in what she can do, where she can find roleplay, and what she can do to deal with many issues (no vraja, limited potions, limited allies, von Zaroviches breathing down her neck ... and so on).  I had no issues finding roleplay in any of those situations.  The difference, I feel, is that I had to go out looking for it, and some people just don't want to do that.  Which is fair, but you cannot complain you don't find anything if you are not willing to look.

[Maffa]

I do not know where you have pulled out the "wasting time" as in "time spent RPing".

I am talking about mechanics that purposely delay the access to places and resources. My character is 100% roleplay, especially nowadays (also re: three hours hardly allow for much more than that). I always regarded dungeoneering as an awkward activity, if anything: going over and over in the same places for little to no reason except collecting money, XP and trinkets never sat well with me, and I did/do because I have to (and in this regard, i find ninjalooting a more rewarding RP activity in terms or character coherence than killing everything and having the mobs and loot respawned after a few hours with no explanation: personal taste, lets say).

But let's also accept the fact that people grind. As a player I noticed there are levels that are more comfortable to play in. So in my mind there is also a place for a targeted grinding.

People that regard the server as an MMO can be a problem, but i will also take a gander and bet that these players are either organized on private discords, OR they squat on the server for many many hours a day/week, which, if true, make solutions as the vistani elixir and the proposed night shift in the warehouse irrelevant. The only people that get really hit are those without all that time on their hands and that have to make choices for the "where"s and the "with whom"s.

[strangerinthealps]

Any solution that doesn't make the complaint (he's unavailable) worse sounds good to me.

Also:

Seisyll making a pun? The end times are upon us!

[Maiyannah]

I am talking about mechanics that purposely delay the access to places and resources. My character is 100% roleplay, especially nowadays (also re: three hours hardly allow for much more than that).

Those mechanics are there specifically to make people engage with each other in preference to the game, ie, to make them roleplay.  In this way, the complaint becomes "I want to play the game more, rather than roleplay."  This isn't an invalid complaint, but it is counter to the design purpose of those changes.

This is not a single-player game, and it is meant to be a multiplayer experience where players interact with one another and there are meaningful consequences for doing so.

In this light such a change would only compliment this design goal.

[jimkaf]

I feel like the whole Gabriel thing is being exaggerated a tad. Vallaki is a place where if someone chooses to base their PCs at, already knows that its prominent trait is barovian's "Old Noapte". If someone is not prepared to deal with the inconveniences it brings (and many don't wish to, depends on the player and each PC) they usually move their base elsewhere, it's a choice.

 I can only see as an improvement that part of the setting becoming harsher and more unforgiving. And yes for extended periods of time I've played barovians, garda as my main PC which most people understand is even more limiting than just not having access to the warehouse for some hours.

[strangerinthealps]

I do not know where you have pulled out the "wasting time" as in "time spent RPing".

I am talking about mechanics that purposely delay the access to places and resources. My character is 100% roleplay, especially nowadays (also re: three hours hardly allow for much more than that). I always regarded dungeoneering as an awkward activity, if anything: going over and over in the same places for little to no reason except collecting money, XP and trinkets never sat well with me, and I did/do because I have to (and in this regard, i find ninjalooting a more rewarding RP activity in terms or character coherence than killing everything and having the mobs and loot respawned after a few hours with no explanation: personal taste, lets say).

But let's also accept the fact that people grind. As a player I noticed there are levels that are more comfortable to play in. So in my mind there is also a place for a targeted grinding.

People that regard the server as an MMO can be a problem, but i will also take a gander and bet that these players are either organized on private discords, OR they squat on the server for many many hours a day/week, which, if true, make solutions as the vistani elixir and the proposed night shift in the warehouse irrelevant. The only people that get really hit are those without all that time on their hands and that have to make choices for the "where"s and the "with whom"s.

+1

There is RPing, which is never a waste of time, and there is time spent alone doing nothing, alone, which IS a waste of time.

I often play as little as 3 hours per week, sometimes more, and I fully realize that this places me outside the target demographic.

However, I wish people would please stop saying "This may not be the right place for you." PotM is the server where I choose to spend what time I have available, and that's a bit insulting.

I am also not much of a dungeoneer. I think I've done less than 10 dungeons total with my three characters. I just did my first on my current level 6 character. I am here for the roleplay, whatever bit of it I can get, and truly enjoy it. You can't accuse me of being an MMO style grinder.

Having said that, if I am only jumping on for 10-15 minutes, or at times when few folks are logged in, and many of those are idling AFK, there legitimately aren't any options available for RP.

This is obviously not an issue for folks who play for hours each day or during times of peak activity, but rest assured, there are players out there for who this can be an issue.

Deliveries are a means by which this players can use their time to obtain decent gold and some pittance of XP (far less than you'd get from a session of RP for the same amount of time.

We're not expecting heaven and earth to be moved to accomodate us. We live in the margins, and even thrive there.

I absolutely agree with respecting the setting and the implementations towards reinforcing the Gothic Horror therein. I don't think there is anyone who doesn't respect the Old Noapte, and if they don't, they won't do it for very long.

Having said that, and I realize that this is just us talking and there is no initiative to do so, but if we make a change that will negatively impact the quality of life of players, there should at least be some sort of upside that will positively impact the server in return. If there is no palpable upside, then why make the change?

Just my two cents...

[Maiyannah]

I absolutely agree with respecting the setting and the implementations towards reinforcing the Gothic Horror therein. I don't think there is anyone who doesn't respect the Old Noapte, and if they don't, they won't do it for very long.

So why is he open in the night then, when it quite demonstrably gets him killed?

[strangerinthealps]

I am talking about mechanics that purposely delay the access to places and resources. My character is 100% roleplay, especially nowadays (also re: three hours hardly allow for much more than that).

Those mechanics are there specifically to make people engage with each other in preference to the game, ie, to make them roleplay.  In this way, the complaint becomes "I want to play the game more, rather than roleplay."  This isn't an invalid complaint, but it is counter to the design purpose of those changes.

This is not a single-player game, and it is meant to be a multiplayer experience where players interact with one another and there are meaningful consequences for doing so.

In this light such a change would only compliment this design goal.

You're making the assumption that enforced down-time necessarily results in roleplay opportunities. That is a fallacy. When not doing something mechanically on the server, it is not a binary switch to RP. It's not 0/1.

While it certainly CAN, it can often simply result in a situation where the player has nothing to do, and goes AFK or logs off.

If the design goal is more RP, and the situation prevents or delays the player from engaging in RP, how does that compliment the design goal, or have any sort of positive impact?

[Maiyannah]

If the design goal is more RP, and the situation prevents or delays the player from engaging in RP, how does that compliment the design goal, or have any sort of positive impact?

In what way does the warehouse NPC going to bed at night both to, yknow, sleep, and also for the ooc goal of enforcing the setting, prevent you from engaging in roleplay?

It doesn't, and if you choose to limit yourself in that way, that is a choice you have made, one which has consequences.

[strangerinthealps]

I absolutely agree with respecting the setting and the implementations towards reinforcing the Gothic Horror therein. I don't think there is anyone who doesn't respect the Old Noapte, and if they don't, they won't do it for very long.

So why is he open in the night then, when it quite demonstrably gets him killed?

Why can you leave Eastern Barovia through the Mists without putting the Sunsword through Strahd?

This is a setting based on a Module, and later a setting designed for PNP. In PNP play, the players are expected to eventually defeat the Count and free Barovia from its curse.

Obviously, that would not work in a persistent world, and a Ravenloft without Strahd would be like peanut butter with no jelly. So concessions are made to create the optimum balance between the source material and playability.

The Warehouse being open at night is NOT conducive to running deliveries at night, as the folks you need to deliver to are not around until the morning. However, it is something that has been status quo since at least 2018, and I see no positives in changing it.

Apart from item storage, which, as it has been pointed out, is both a stand-in for having a home with permanent storage AND figures largely for merchants, the warehouse lets someone carrying a heavy load in after 6pm unload their burden so that they can get back to the outskirts.

So would shutting it down at night create more RP? I am skeptical.

It would strand folks doing deliveries in a position where they would be better off logging off than attempting a slow traverse back to the Outskirts at night.

As far as the folks unable to store or claim items? It would carve deeply into the window in which merchants are able to ply their trade, and the MMO guy who wants to claim his sword and go kill something will likely be hanging out in the outskirts at night, creating, if anything, the exact opposite of what is intended.

Don't get me wrong. Closing the Warehouse at night would NOT be the end of the world. (Closing the Drain during the day would be) However, it's status quo, people are used to planning around it, and unless there is some huge positive to be gained from making that change, why make it?

[Cassius]

As stated by MAB, there's no plans on changing the setup with Gabriel as is or really anything else in that matter (unless something new comes up). For those who are complaining that he gets killed at night or scared that he disappears during the night while you need to desperately turn a claim in or to store something, then I have very good news... There are other places that store items like the Drain! Yahoo! If the entire novelty of "old noapte" is getting to your nerves, there's places like the Keep of the Dyad or Port-a-Lucine where you can store your items and the latter especially has an active RP scene if I'm not mistaken.

For folks who think these things are time wasters, just learn how to apply your time more wisely, invest in what you enjoy and don't waste your time on the things you hate. If that means you need to adapt yourself to RPing in France Dementlieu, go for it. If that means you need to adapt yourself to RPing in the Mist Camp Keep of the Dyad all the more power to you. If that means you need to invest your time in another server, then just do it. Respect your time, embrace doing things that are worthwhile to your availabilities because guess what? There's going to be other things (trivial or not) that will grind your gears be they current or not.

[strangerinthealps]

If the design goal is more RP, and the situation prevents or delays the player from engaging in RP, how does that compliment the design goal, or have any sort of positive impact?

In what way does the warehouse NPC going to bed at night both to, yknow, sleep, and also for the ooc goal of enforcing the setting, prevent you from engaging in roleplay?

It doesn't, and if you choose to limit yourself in that way, that is a choice you have made, one which has consequences.

Sorry, you failed to provide any positive impact making that change would have.

As stated, if you come in loaded down with cargo and can't unload it, you are either going to log off, which prevents roleplay, or try to make a long traverse across town to the outskirts, which both delays RP with the added detriment of causing the opposite of the intended 'fear the noapte' setting enforcement.

Enforcing the setting, in and of itself, outside of any positive impact to the server, is ultimately a scorched earth policy.

I think we ALL have to agree that certain concessions are made to create a version of Ravenloft which functions as a persistent world.

[cooachlyfe]

If the design goal is more RP, and the situation prevents or delays the player from engaging in RP, how does that compliment the design goal, or have any sort of positive impact?

In what way does the warehouse NPC going to bed at night both to, yknow, sleep, and also for the ooc goal of enforcing the setting, prevent you from engaging in roleplay?

It doesn't, and if you choose to limit yourself in that way, that is a choice you have made, one which has consequences.

You can make the same argument for every Barovian npc that is around at night, however for some reason the dev team wouldn't do that even though it would make sense for the setting.

How does it effect roleplay? You're right, it doesn't really. It just creates a time dump that could be filled with role-playing somewhere or simply logging off and doing something until it is daytime again.

However enforcing downtime doesn't make the game harder. It just makes it more annoying and frustrating and not in a good way. Sure it can be filled with roleplay, however it can also prevent roleplay by trying to make the Mist Wall or trying to reach a destination carrying way above your carrying capabilities. I think nearly everyone can agree that these enforced downtime mechanics has cause some unhealthy frustration if only briefly.

I think there is a some confusion when people talk about wasting time. No one is talking about time they have spent role-playing as wasted time. They are talking about specifically the times they are alone or there isn't any roleplay to be had.

[strangerinthealps]

If the design goal is more RP, and the situation prevents or delays the player from engaging in RP, how does that compliment the design goal, or have any sort of positive impact?

In what way does the warehouse NPC going to bed at night both to, yknow, sleep, and also for the ooc goal of enforcing the setting, prevent you from engaging in roleplay?

It doesn't, and if you choose to limit yourself in that way, that is a choice you have made, one which has consequences.

You can make the same argument for every Barovian npc that is around at night, however for some reason the dev team wouldn't do that even though it would make sense for the setting.

How does it effect roleplay? You're right, it doesn't really. It just creates a time dump that could be filled with role-playing somewhere or simply logging off and doing something until it is daytime again.

However enforcing downtime doesn't make the game harder. It just makes it more annoying and frustrating and not in a good way. Sure it can be filled with roleplay, however it can also prevent roleplay by trying to make the Mist Wall or trying to reach a destination carrying way above your carrying capabilities. I think nearly everyone can agree that these enforced downtime mechanics has cause some unhealthy frustration if only briefly.

I think there is a some confusion when people talk about wasting time. No one is talking about time they have spent role-playing as wasted time. They are talking about specifically the times they are alone or there isn't any roleplay to be had.

I'll be honest, I'm not above finding an AFK player and roleplaying around them (singing a song, drinking a beer, smoking a cigarrete).

[cooachlyfe]

Also I ask this to those who see these down time mechanics as opportunities for roleplay to make a list of some examples of what you can do during these times to help non-creative people like me. This way  when there isn't really anyone around, I can keep up my roleplay until I can head to my destination. I think posting such a list in the roleplay resource section of the forums would be helpful to people like me.

[rapsam2003]

I am talking about mechanics that purposely delay the access to places and resources. My character is 100% roleplay, especially nowadays (also re: three hours hardly allow for much more than that).

Those mechanics are there specifically to make people engage with each other in preference to the game, ie, to make them roleplay.  In this way, the complaint becomes "I want to play the game more, rather than roleplay."  This isn't an invalid complaint, but it is counter to the design purpose of those changes.

This is not a single-player game, and it is meant to be a multiplayer experience where players interact with one another and there are meaningful consequences for doing so.

In this light such a change would only compliment this design goal.

You stated this much better than I could have, so I will simply say: I agree.

[strangerinthealps]

I am talking about mechanics that purposely delay the access to places and resources. My character is 100% roleplay, especially nowadays (also re: three hours hardly allow for much more than that).

Those mechanics are there specifically to make people engage with each other in preference to the game, ie, to make them roleplay.  In this way, the complaint becomes "I want to play the game more, rather than roleplay."  This isn't an invalid complaint, but it is counter to the design purpose of those changes.

This is not a single-player game, and it is meant to be a multiplayer experience where players interact with one another and there are meaningful consequences for doing so.

In this light such a change would only compliment this design goal.

You stated this much better than I could have, so I will simply say: I agree.

No one has been able to state any positives towards RP that would result from closing the warehouse at night...

I believe the takeaway would be folks seperated from, or delayed in getting to RP, and a bigger night-time Outskirts mob.

[MAB77]

That's only because you disagree with our vision, and there is nothing to prove. Having Gabriel close at night does not improve RP per se, but it opens a window of opportunity for you to do just that in public areas if you so wish, instead of roaming the streets of Barovia at night (which we seek to discourage).

Soren said it best, it is minor inconveniences like these that forces players to make choices and do something else now and then. So, yeah, I believe it is eminently positive for the server NOT to have all options available all the time.

[strangerinthealps]

That's only because you disagree with our vision, and there is nothing to prove. Having Gabriel close at night does not improve RP per se, but it opens a window of opportunity for you to do just that in public areas if you so wish, instead of roaming the streets of Barovia at night (which we seek to discourage).

Soren said it best, it is minor inconveniences like these that forces players to make choices and do something else now and then. So, yeah, I believe it is eminently positive for the server NOT to have all options available all the time.

I emphatically do NOT disagree with your vision.

I am as close to an RP only player as you can get. I have never once even sniffed an XP penalty. I stopped playing my Kender because I wasn't able to enjoy the horror aspects of the setting. I absolutely LOVE tavern RP. I could literally just sit in a tavern for hours, if I had the hours and they weren't often empty or AFK farms.

Clearly, the server already does NOT have all options available all the time. The Night is palpably different from the day, and that is almost impossible to miss. You guys have done a great job with that.

Having said that, you are still more likely, most evenings, to find more folks loitering in the Outskirts than there are inside the Lady's Rest.

People have built strategies and schedules around the Warehouse being open, and I would point out that some pretty good RP does not infrequently occur there. Admittedly, it would not be the end of the world if the Warehouse was closed at night. Having said that, I don't see any additional RP happening because it is closed at night, and I really don't want to be 'that guy who got the Warehouse night-locked.'

Additionally, if you can't find anyone to roleplay with, locking the Warehouse simply adds one more thing to the list of things you can't do during your down time.

Honestly, I feel like sometimes RP opportunities are missed BECAUSE the days are so hectic, and everyone is rushing around trying to handle their mechanical business, or to travel from point A to point B. You don't have the TIME to stop and have a conversation with someone you meet along the way for fear of missing the Mist Wall, or not getting to a merchant or business before they close. Instead, you rush on by.

Just my two cents.

I REALLY do love the world, and would rather play here than anywhere else. I've had zero DM interactions, so that is 100% a combination of the Dev Team and the community at large. So thank you for that!

[KovosDatch]

Speaking as someone who also rents a shop and using it as a shop, having the warehouse unavailable at night will harm the crafters.

Instead of staying open until the bell, I would have to close down early to get to the warehouse to get materials that are stored there so I could craft at night.

Garda for Gabriel, yes.
Closed for the night? Seems like a tedious change.

[rapsam2003]

I am talking about mechanics that purposely delay the access to places and resources. My character is 100% roleplay, especially nowadays (also re: three hours hardly allow for much more than that).

Those mechanics are there specifically to make people engage with each other in preference to the game, ie, to make them roleplay.  In this way, the complaint becomes "I want to play the game more, rather than roleplay."  This isn't an invalid complaint, but it is counter to the design purpose of those changes.

This is not a single-player game, and it is meant to be a multiplayer experience where players interact with one another and there are meaningful consequences for doing so.

In this light such a change would only compliment this design goal.

You stated this much better than I could have, so I will simply say: I agree.

No one has been able to state any positives towards RP that would result from closing the warehouse at night...

I believe the takeaway would be folks seperated from, or delayed in getting to RP, and a bigger night-time Outskirts mob.

Why do you think it's everyone else's job to convince you? Either you like the overall server vision, or you don't. /shrug

[Cody]

As much as I respect the philosophy to make the day-night difference impactful on the server, I hope any and all changes that affect that, now or in the future, are done in the spirit of keeping options open for characters to participate in activities, incentivize players, or just keep them interested to play on the server at any time (heck what if you even increase RPXP gain at night).
 
For over the past year of playing here, I've consistently see lots of players who'd complain they feel like there is not much to do at night, and hate feeling like they're penned indoors. On top of that while cutting access to stored raw supplies for crafters and crafted goods seems like an extremely large counterintuitive step for keeping players interested in staying logged when the sun starts to set.
If more people start logging out at night, then that is less characters for me to be able to run into and roleplay with isn't it? I don't like the idea of roleplay being stemmed like this.

[Cyber Viking]

That's only because you disagree with our vision, and there is nothing to prove. Having Gabriel close at night does not improve RP per se, but it opens a window of opportunity for you to do just that in public areas if you so wish, instead of roaming the streets of Barovia at night (which we seek to discourage).

Soren said it best, it is minor inconveniences like these that forces players to make choices and do something else now and then. So, yeah, I believe it is eminently positive for the server NOT to have all options available all the time.

This statement needs to be copy and pasted alot.

[Croissant]

I am talking about mechanics that purposely delay the access to places and resources. My character is 100% roleplay, especially nowadays (also re: three hours hardly allow for much more than that).

Those mechanics are there specifically to make people engage with each other in preference to the game, ie, to make them roleplay.  In this way, the complaint becomes "I want to play the game more, rather than roleplay."  This isn't an invalid complaint, but it is counter to the design purpose of those changes.

This is not a single-player game, and it is meant to be a multiplayer experience where players interact with one another and there are meaningful consequences for doing so.

In this light such a change would only compliment this design goal.

You stated this much better than I could have, so I will simply say: I agree.

No one has been able to state any positives towards RP that would result from closing the warehouse at night...

I believe the takeaway would be folks seperated from, or delayed in getting to RP, and a bigger night-time Outskirts mob.

Why do you think it's everyone else's job to convince you? Either you like the overall server vision, or you don't. /shrug

What is the server vision exactly that is improved by inconvenience and not harmed by the overwhelming focus on MMO mechanics, high magic "everything is easy once you leave Barovia", and zero actual horror for 95% of the server?

[HopeIsTheCarrot]

That's only because you disagree with our vision, and there is nothing to prove. Having Gabriel close at night does not improve RP per se, but it opens a window of opportunity for you to do just that in public areas if you so wish, instead of roaming the streets of Barovia at night (which we seek to discourage).

Soren said it best, it is minor inconveniences like these that forces players to make choices and do something else now and then. So, yeah, I believe it is eminently positive for the server NOT to have all options available all the time.

Honestly, I feel like sometimes RP opportunities are missed BECAUSE the days are so hectic, and everyone is rushing around trying to handle their mechanical business, or to travel from point A to point B. You don't have the TIME to stop and have a conversation with someone you meet along the way for fear of missing the Mist Wall, or not getting to a merchant or business before they close. Instead, you rush on by.

This is a very real thing and unfortunately I’ve been on both ends of this interaction more times than I could count. “Would love to chat but have to run off before x closes or y will leave at night.” It sounds nice to say, “yeah but that creates a more genuine/authentic feel to the setting.” And I don’t disagree with that sentiment. But as a player, it always feels pretty crappy. Either - I just ran off and left someone instead of roleplaying with them because of a mechanical limitation that would impose other consequences on my character’s commitments or my playing experience. Or, I just got ditched by someone trying to meet a deadline and now I’m back to standing on a terrace or out in the outskirts twiddling my thumbs until someone else shows up to interact with. In theory, im all for everything closing at night. I love the gothic setting and the horror atmosphere and i miss the days when this server was harder and scarier at night. But, I think it’s important that we don’t ignore that there is a trade off in that, at least in the way it’s playing out currently. Someone in our player community voicing those concerns does not equate to that individual not sharing the dev/dm team’s vision for the server - at least it shouldn’t.