Can we PLEASE get a Garda for Gabriel!!!!!!!!!

[Skelni]

...I'd have the Drain's NPCs to offer their services at night only. This way we achieve the dichotomy we always wanted. Drain community active at night, surface one by day.

My only rejection about this is being that - The Drain community can be active whenever. It's just during the daytime they'll tend to be either active in the Drain itself or away somewhere else from Vallaki. If we're somehow trying to promote the idea of outcasts being in the Drain at night, the only real time they can hang around places like the Outskirts at that time, then I don't see a lot of people going for that or being happy about it. Outcasts use nighttime to go around on the surface.

I know this isn't what's being directly suggested, it's just trying to put emphasis on the Drain during these time periods, but I don't think it would do better to just have them locked away down in the Drain 24/7.

[Vantes-]

I can understand that this change, to have him turn in at night, would be hard-line respecting the setting. And if that's the way the development team as a whole wants to go with it, then that's the way it's going to go.

This is a good example, however, of why small issues are sometimes not posted on the forums. The original poster had a grievance that there was a window of time where a proper warehouse function was unavailable due to mob pathing. The thread has now become a source for potentially ripping that functionality from both the Warehouse and the Drain for 50% of their previous durations.

[Edward]

I'd have the Drain's NPCs to offer their services at night only. This way we achieve the dichotomy we always wanted. Drain community active at night, surface one by day.

Outcasts already have it rough as it is, though, being forced to only be able to do drain deliveries at night when the most dangerous enemies are roaming is not necessary or appealing for players to experience.

[cooachlyfe]

I imagine you should then do this for every single npc in Barovia as the priest in the Morninglordian Temple is sometimes killed by the nearby mist spawn in the Slums. Heck, the Lady's Inn should be locked at night as well as the Morninglordian Temple in the outskirts as well since that would fall in line with the setting. Also if you are caught outside at night, it should be an automatic opt in for pvp as it would make sense icly since roaming outside endangers everyone and I imagine would teach new players the harshness of the setting and server.

Also the vistani should probably head inside too since mobs can be dragged there as well and it would make sense for them to rest and avoid monsters during the night.


It also should make sense that the Drain be unavailable to good aligned characters and factions as well because it would not make sense for the doorman to allow just anyone in nor would it make sense for those of the Drain to deal with just anyone. However, this is getting pretty off topic so that is all I would say on that

[PrimetheGrime]

I think people really just need to be more mindful of where they lead npcs rather than us shutting up shop. The ml Temple for instance will always have npcs in it because they're actively living/guarding it. The light carriers can usually handle most creatures, but the mist spawns can be rough on them.

[bloodless]

I can understand that this change, to have him turn in at night, would be hard-line respecting the setting. And if that's the way the development team as a whole wants to go with it, then that's the way it's going to go.

This is a good example, however, of why small issues are sometimes not posted on the forums. The original poster had a grievance that there was a window of time where a proper warehouse function was unavailable due to mob pathing. The thread has now become a source for potentially ripping that functionality from both the Warehouse and the Drain for 50% of their previous durations.

An important note. There are a hundred different ways in which we can better respect the setting. At some point concession has to be made that this is a video game, and actively damaging quality of life features helps nobody. I often feel in threads like these that the inherent differences between the realities and necessities of a persistent world iteration versus what would be a small party table top game are not considered where they ought to be among the top of the list of considerations.

[PlatointheCave]

While I understand that would not be the most popular solution, it IS the solution best aligning with our vision for the server. We do, after all, want players to actually respect the setting lore and pass their Barovian nights indoors to roleplay. Not everything has to be available anytime anywhere, and to have merchants and storage close for the nights is actually a very good way to incite players to do just that: pause to roleplay. You don't wan't to? It's your prerogative, there is still plenty of others things to do at night so limited gameplay time is really not an issue. Though I'd still offer an alternative, I'd have the Drain's NPCs to offer their services at night only. This way we achieve the dichotomy we always wanted. Drain community active at night, surface one by day.

I don't think it's good for a community to choose punitive solutions to every problem. Good game design is about finding a way to marry the tonal goals of a work with play.  Is this really it? I'm not so sure. I don't use any of the affected NPCs habitually but clearly others do. I know there's enough talented minds on the Dev team to find something elegantly designed.

It should be discussed with the rest of the Dev team before implementation.

[Merry Munchkin]

I think this is where devotion to setting and lore needs to take a back seat to practicality and reality.  Certain NPC functions need to be available around the clock to cater to players that are in different timezones and have different play times.  It is one thing to encourage or incentivize players to not recklessly dungeon or go outdoors at night without potential consequences, but it is another thing to hard lock players into not having access to necessary NPC interactions when they are available to play.  I think a practical compromise is in order here.

[strangerinthealps]

I respect the reasoning to just have Gabriel close up shop and leave at night. It comes from a place of good intentions and makes some degree of sense within the game world.

However, it doesn't properly fix the problem being discussed. If the issue is that wererats kill Gabriel (taking him out of commission for an hour or more of IRL time) and the proposed solution is to have him leave for the night, that likewise takes him out of commission for slightly more than an hour of IRL time. It doesn't really solve anything at all, except for, possibly, some hassle on the part of a member of the Team who notices that he's been killed and resets his area. Otherwise, we've just taken the original problem (that people can't access Gabriel's services for a set amount of time) and put a new coat of paint on it.

While I understand that would not be the most popular solution, it IS the solution best aligning with our vision for the server. We do, after all, want players to actually respect the setting lore and pass their Barovian nights indoors to roleplay. Not everything has to be available anytime anywhere, and to have merchants and storage close for the nights is actually a very good way to incite players to do just that: pause to roleplay. You don't wan't to? It's your prerogative, there is still plenty of others things to do at night so limited gameplay time is really not an issue. Though I'd still offer an alternative, I'd have the Drain's NPCs to offer their services at night only. This way we achieve the dichotomy we always wanted. Drain community active at night, surface one by day.

"Don't talk about it or we'll make it worse on you."

Message received. Consider me effectively chastened. Will keep any feedback to myself next time.

Glad we can have such an open and constructive back and forth on player issues...

[Cassius]

It is not in the dev team's intention to suddenly block off the Drain to "night only" that would be counterintuitive to its entire premise.

[Wilkins1952]

I think this is where devotion to setting and lore needs to take a back seat to practicality and reality.  Certain NPC functions need to be available around the clock to cater to players that are in different timezones and have different play times.  It is one thing to encourage or incentivize players to not recklessly dungeon or go outdoors at night without potential consequences, but it is another thing to hard lock players into not having access to necessary NPC interactions when they are available to play.  I think a practical compromise is in order here.

I agree with this, Making the door close at night is in my eyes the better option, Still able to be circumvented if needs be. With potential IC consequences. But at the same time not something that is a hard Yes/No that despawning the NPCS would be.

[Myrza]

I don't get why we can't station Garda or bodyguards there. Blue Water has Garda protecting it and Red Vardo shop and other taverns have bodyguards inside. Another option can be locking the doors at night and adding a knock dialogue like the Vallaki Gates.

Making it only usable during the day is fine too I guess but I don't get why it is "The Best Solution".

[PrimetheGrime]

I don't get why we can't station Garda or bodyguards there. Blue Water has Garda protecting it and Red Vardo shop and other taverns have bodyguards inside. Another option can be locking the doors at night and adding a knock dialogue like the Vallaki Gates.

Making it only usable during the day is fine too I guess but I don't get why it is "The Best Solution".

Not a bad idea really

[EO]

I don't get why we can't station Garda or bodyguards there. Blue Water has Garda protecting it and Red Vardo shop and other taverns have bodyguards inside. Another option can be locking the doors at night and adding a knock dialogue like the Vallaki Gates.

Making it only usable during the day is fine too I guess but I don't get why it is "The Best Solution".

Because this is Barovia, where the night is full of terrors, where people shut their windows, bar their door for fear of what's outside. This is one of the things that makes Barovia unique. I get that players don't want to fear the night but as developers it is, as MAB reiterated, our goal to foster that atmosphere.

[Vantes-]

"Don't talk about it or we'll make it worse on you."

Message received. Consider me effectively chastened. Will keep any feedback to myself next time.

Glad we can have such an open and constructive back and forth on player issues...

This is the sentiment being learned from this thread.

[strangerinthealps]

I don't get why we can't station Garda or bodyguards there. Blue Water has Garda protecting it and Red Vardo shop and other taverns have bodyguards inside. Another option can be locking the doors at night and adding a knock dialogue like the Vallaki Gates.

Making it only usable during the day is fine too I guess but I don't get why it is "The Best Solution".

Because this is Barovia, where the night is full of terrors, where people shut their windows, bar their door for fear of what's outside. This is one of the things that makes Barovia unique. I get that players don't want to fear the night but as developers it is, as MAB reiterated, our goal to foster that atmosphere.

Why not just lock up the whole of Vallaki as tight as the Village of Barovia at night, then?

And why is Gabriel trusting his goods to anyone who isn't a native Barovian?

[EO]

Why not just lock up the whole of Vallaki as tight as the Village of Barovia at night, then?

And why is Gabriel trusting his goods to anyone who isn't a native Barovian?

Most of Vallaki is already locked up at night, the vast majority of shops and businesses are, and the gates are also locked, requiring someone to ask to be let in or out. This isn't something new either.

As for trusting his goods, he does have an OCR check and hands out difficult deliveries.

[MAB77]

"Don't talk about it or we'll make it worse on you."

Message received. Consider me effectively chastened. Will keep any feedback to myself next time.

Glad we can have such an open and constructive back and forth on player issues...

I'm sorry if it is the feeling you get. It's not true, as evidenced by the fact that a lot of the issues that have been fixed over the years are thanks to players feedbacks. Though it is a fact that not all proposals will be agreed upon by everyone. Making a proposal includes having it discussed by those with opposite stance, and at times, it includes members of the staff. Now rest on your two ears, no decision has been made in this instance and this is certainly not a battle I will die on the hill for.

[strangerinthealps]

"Don't talk about it or we'll make it worse on you."

Message received. Consider me effectively chastened. Will keep any feedback to myself next time.

Glad we can have such an open and constructive back and forth on player issues...

This is the sentiment being learned from this thread.

Difficulty, Frustration & Boredom ≠ Horror...or, at least, not Gothic Horror...

[MAB77]

We are veering seriously off topic.

If you have an issue with the replies I gave you, you are welcome to reach me out in a private message or on discord, you'll find that I am quite amenable to discussion to dispel misunderstandings.

However, having storage or one given NPC unavailable does not in any way changes the difficulty of the server, nor makes the server any more boring. Each players here are responsible for our own fun, if a game mechanic prevents you to do something in particular, there is plenty of other things to do to keep things interesting.

[Maiyannah]

I don't get why we can't station Garda or bodyguards there. Blue Water has Garda protecting it and Red Vardo shop and other taverns have bodyguards inside. Another option can be locking the doors at night and adding a knock dialogue like the Vallaki Gates.

Making it only usable during the day is fine too I guess but I don't get why it is "The Best Solution".

Because this is Barovia, where the night is full of terrors, where people shut their windows, bar their door for fear of what's outside. This is one of the things that makes Barovia unique. I get that players don't want to fear the night but as developers it is, as MAB reiterated, our goal to foster that atmosphere.

In fact, the craft halls and the warehouse are the only exception to this.  Entire dungeons get barred off at night (orphanage basement for instance) so there are already precendents of at least equal, if not more severe, gameplay limitations during the night.

If this kind of mechanic frustrates someone then I would suggest that those people are roleplaying in a setting that isn't to their tastes, and there's probably better places for them.

[FinalHeaven]

Most people just pick the lock or crowbar the door to the Orphanage basement, I'd expect.  Same with busting into the Herczog hut.  Or heck, the front gate of Vallaki.

[KovosDatch]

I think closing down Gabriel's at night will just further push people to log out at night and log back in during the day. It's already a problem, and removing more amenities at night will just further increase that behavior in my opinion, whether it is lore friendly or not.

[strangerinthealps]

I think closing down Gabriel's at night will just further push people to log out at night and log back in during the day. It's already a problem, and removing more amenities at night will just further increase that behavior in my opinion, whether it is lore friendly or not.

+1

I will shut my fat mouth.

Only, can we not penalize the quality of life of everyone on the server because I asked for a small quality of life fix.

I don't want to be that jerk.

[EO]

I think closing down Gabriel's at night will just further push people to log out at night and log back in during the day. It's already a problem, and removing more amenities at night will just further increase that behavior in my opinion, whether it is lore friendly or not.

That argument has been made for every change we've brought to the day/night routine, yet our player counts are consistently higher than they were before, so there's not a mass exodus of people at night. This isn't to say some don't do it, but we've made far more drastic changes and the end result hasn't been that people all log out for the night.

In the end, I presume people who enjoy Barovia do so because of its themes, and fear of the night is one of the major ones in that domain. We've been clear in the past that we take steps to reinforce that, to drive people to roleplay indoor at night rather than venturing out and about, and acting like day and night are the same.