Give Paladins A Mechanical Drawback

[Alan Hunter]

Just my view and opinion but I like to discuss with the community on the thought of adding drawbacks for paladins. I've been noticing a surge of paladin and knightly characters and it hasn't been such in a long time. I notice a lack of consideration to a many who have self-entitled themselves as knights and it's a bit concerning as many notes as possible in creation insist that self-titles not be given and earned with in the game itself or requested by DM. I know some may argue due to their characters origin and faith they may already be considered as so. But that could imply some players could possibly have smaller titles like Merchant Lord or Judge and such with equal ease. This does not pertain to everyone as some have actually roleplayed and worked hard to earn their title but there has been an increase of self-proclaimed and titled paladins as of late and believe in fairness of the community that some standards should be placed in order to keep in line with the rules.

I believe there should be some mechanical drawback for achieving said title as it is something that should be earned as per requisite to the rules in creation or simply add it in the player creation subclasses though haven't made a new character in some time so do not know if this is already in the creation system. In addition, a mechanical draw back that automatically decreases the alignment of the paladin when they fail at certain parameters of the common Paladin Code. These should be generic parameters as not all paladins have the same Codes or Morals as one another but do have standard structures and beliefs this could fall upon. Especially acts that may be conveyed as evil or chaotic should be considered as them falling and decreasing with in their alignment. This could ease the workload on DMs having to view each paladin to see that they are aligned with their God and Beliefs at the rudimentary level seeing their alignment points shift and making swifter judgements for their actions. Perhaps a debuff for acting out in accordance with their standard codes could apply as well as a -2 Wis/Cha for failing their alignment as a temporary debuff having loss faith with their deity and morals.

There should be consequences and drawbacks for falling out with one's order and belief structure. And some have even fallen and risen to another faith in rare occasions. I believe this could be good for the class in enforcing specifics to their downfall than relying on DMs to much who already have enough on their plate most days. It would also be interesting if enough failures in alignment occurred, they turned into a Blackguard though I hear some can opt up to be if they had fallen too far. This is just a suggestion and feedback. Others may not agree with me and that's okay. Please if you are not happy with my choice of words there's no need to pm me in offering malice. I'm just trying to enjoy the game and participate like anyone else. So what's your opinon?

[Nemesis 24]

Falling paladins are already overseen and punished as fallen by the DM team.  This is already covered, and has always been covered.  You are asking for something which already exists.  If you believe an individual should have fallen, then either the behaviour hasn't been reported, or it has, and the ruling disagrees with your opinion.

Titles given to paladins are either official, in that they are official titles granted by the state and therefore with oversight from the DM team already, or within the order themselves, and the order themselves is the one who has the right to grant such title, as it only applies and counts within the order itself.  They have no consequence nor meaning otherwise, and merely grant the paladin a depth and layering to their personality.  If it is an official faction, it is given with DM oversight.  If it is not an official faction it needs no DM oversight whatsoever, as it conveys no benefits, unlike normal noble titles which do grant consider power, and do require oversight, and already have it.

Fallen paladins can no longer use any of their spells or abilities.  This is mechanically enforced.  Nothing they have works any more.  There is no need to do further than that.

Paladins are restricted by their alignments, their oaths, their tactics, their obligations, the fact they cannot multiclass, and the fact they cannot reliably detect any stealthers (a major part of the server).  They have a slew of things that both mechanically and roleplay wise that keep them in check.

This post and the suggestions you have given are based on ignorance of the reality of playing a paladin on Potm.  Please research the class better before making assumptions.

[MAB77]

There are several points to consider here.

1) Paladins can already fall from grace if their roleplay warrants it. It cannot be overstated enough that the possible mechanical drawback is already there.

2) It's (usually) not an issue for players to style themselves knights, it does not confer them any advantage in game. On Ravenloft it is mostly an empty title anyway. Unless it was duly bestowed by the temporal leaders of a given domain, their titles mean nothing to most. At best they will simply be ignored, at worst it will be deemed a lie. Vaunt your knigthly title all you want to a garda or gendarme, she or he'll laugh at your face and treat you like any other outsider. They are the law, not you.

3) It could be an issue if one claims to be a knight of one of our in-game domain without being one. However, characters are also permitted to lie about their background, and if they are willing to face the music in game then its all fair game. (Not that I recommend paladins to lie, but delusion is possible too.)

4) It is very much a theme of the setting that being cut off from one's world of origin may lead to a significant ideological shift. It's what happened to cult of the Morninglord, and we certainly encourage paladin players to explore how finding themselves cut off from their deity would alter their vision. The one important thing is that they remain lawful and good in their behavior.

[PrimetheGrime]

I don't see any need for further draw backs. Paladin's already have the most scrutinized alignment as is, and from my experiences playing Paladins, I can tell you now that what you may consider "evil" or "chaotic" is highly subjective most times unless taken to their most radical stance. If you feel there's been a bad representation made, you're better off reporting the character to the DM team than requesting a mechanical drawback. That's just not gonna happen as it's unnecessary.

[Alan Hunter]

You know what I'll forget participating in the forum political side. I see this isn't going to go civilly or respectfully. And given the targeted behavior I'm simply going to ask a Forum DM to lock this topic and refrain from further use of the Forum less it is Pms, Announcements, or Biographies.  You've called me disingenuous before, so I don't much care if you believe that or not. I am sorry if you are troubled by me and that we can't sit and settle these differences like human beings. It's best you stay on your side, and I'll stay on mine. Thank you for making that clear.

Alan~

[MAB77]

Okay, I think we're done here.