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Author Topic: New spell suggestion - Mass Ultravision  (Read 453 times)

Bounty

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New spell suggestion - Mass Ultravision
« on: March 09, 2023, 09:15:29 AM »
As the title says, i would like to propose the addition of a new spell 'Mass Ultravision'.

Disclaimer:
I am unsure how feasible it is to implement a custom spell like this, as i am no developer. Neither do i know if it would be in spirit of PotM to implement a spell that is not part of source material. These will be the topics of discussion.

Since the latest addition of the warlock class, darkness sees a lot more use in group and more specifically dungeon play.
In my honest opinion a constant shroud of darkness is one of the strongest tools a warlock can bring to the table and a great way to add relevance in dungeons to an already very niche class. Now, it is already possible to supply each of your party members with ultravision via single target spells. However this is often, either not an option because 2nd level spell slots are used for a variety of other wards, or due to the size of groups it comes to confusion both IC and OOC (who will prepare how many and ward whom with it).
Another option is to use consumables, scrolls or potions of ultravision. These however are rarely in the arsenal of most adventureres and the financial burden of supplying the ward trough these means, will most of the time fall to the warlock. Since scrolls from merchants are rather expensive and the ingredients for the potions are not to common, this is frankly not a very feasible avenue for a lot of players. (as a point of reference i have spent approximately 40.000 gold on scrolls and potions, with my current warlock that i have been playing a little over two months, to supply ultravision to party members)
Even if the party decides to utilize ultravision and darkness, it often occurs that an individual misses it, because not enough wards were prepared or multiple casters used it on the same person etc. it quickly becomes a right mess. In such an instance darkness is seen as a detriment, since individual players are hindred by it and the warlock player is often encouraged to stop using darkness (both IC and OOC). This is quite frustrating to say the least, not being able to utilize what is in my opinion, a core spell for the class.

For all of these reasons i would like to suggest the addition of 'Mass Ultravision', in a similar vain as 'Mass See Invisibility'. One spell provided by one character, to avoid confusion and make the game for warlocks and other darkness enthusiasts, so much more enjoyable. The addition of this spell would not create a new overpowered strategy, rather simplify an already existing way of approaching obstacles, making it accessible to a larger amount of the player base.

Here an example how the spell could be implemented (based on the original 'Ultravision' and 'Mass See Invisibility' spell):
Spoiler: show

Mass Ultravision

Spell Level: Assassin 3; Bard 4; Cleric 4; Druid 3; Favored Soul 4; Monster Hunter 4; Ranger 3; Voodan 3; Wizard / Sorcerer 4

Innate Level: 3

School: Transmutation

Descriptor:

Component: Verbal, Somatic

Range: Short

Area of Effect / Target: Large

Duration: 1 Hour + 1 Hour / Level

Additional Counter Spells:

Save: None

Spell Resistance: No

All allies within the area of effect are able to see in complete darkness, their sight is improved beyond Darkvision. When this spell is applied even the effects of magical darkness are pierced.



To all who would doubt the effectiveness of darkness and there for the relevance of this post, here a list of it's benefits:
Spoiler: show

Darkness in combination with Ultravision, effectively renders your opponents blind which has the following upsides:
Renders enemies flat-footed (reducing their AC and enables sneak attack)
 -4 to the enemies hit (effectively a +4 AC that stacks with all other sources)
+2 to your hit (also stacks with all other sources)
50% concealment ( a great way of supplying concealment to a large amount of people when spell slots a scarce, especially in lower levels)
Can not be targeted by ranged attacks (enemy archers can not attack something they can not see, making them run into the darkness where your frontlines await them)
Can not be targeted by ranged or melee touch attacks, 'inflict wounds' spell for example (similar to not being able to cast on invisible targets, when you do not have see invis, even if they are close enough for you to sense their presence)
Enemies who can not see you can not make attacks of opportunity.
Enemies are less likely to go after you for attacking them, if they can not see you. (highly relevant for squishy backliners)
Stealthers can use the darkness to effectively 'hide in plain sight' (very good for flankers like rogues and monks or squishy backline rangers and bards, if they get in trouble)



« Last Edit: March 10, 2023, 04:09:51 AM by Bounty »

Krosenq

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Re: New spell suggestion - Mass Ultravision
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2023, 01:08:55 PM »
In fairness, I think the fact that you have to stack a lot of consumables, or sacrifice other buffs to prepare it, is what makes it balanced. Mass ultravision would be convenient, but it would also make it trivial to use the above mentioned strategy with groups. I like the idea of it being novel, and something others have to help contribute to.
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Bounty

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Re: New spell suggestion - Mass Ultravision
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2023, 02:03:49 PM »
In fairness, I think the fact that you have to stack a lot of consumables, or sacrifice other buffs to prepare it, is what makes it balanced. Mass ultravision would be convenient, but it would also make it trivial to use the above mentioned strategy with groups. I like the idea of it being novel, and something others have to help contribute to.

I would agree with you on this idealistic view (investment => reward) the spell could be made a few levels higher and/or restricted to less classes, to provide more significant investment. I do however not agree that it should be novel, warlock gets to choose a very limited selection of invocations and it does not feel great not being able to use part of an already small arsenal. It has limits in it's application, much like sneak attack, to not work on certain enemies, namely those with ultravision, blindsight and truesight.
Darkness already gets a bad wrap due to the notorious 'UV' bug, a lot of players do not want to use it, out of OOC frustration alone. Mass Ultravision, would alleviate this to a degree, by making the whole set up easier. (The bug fixes itself once you get a fresh casting of ultravision)

Grendlykins, Simp of Azalin Rex

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Re: New spell suggestion - Mass Ultravision
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2023, 04:03:52 PM »
It's also very worth noting that Darkness doesn't just confuse other players and possibly cause a fight to go south, xp gain is based on having vision of the enemy at the time of it's death. Which means that a Warlock using Darkness is potentially cutting massive chunks of XP out for everyone else if an enemy dies inside of it. At least, that's how it worked the last time I checked, based off enemy mobs like shadows using their own Darkness and then dying inside of it, depriving everyone of XP.

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Re: New spell suggestion - Mass Ultravision
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2023, 04:54:09 PM »
I like the idea of giving it to certain classes that aren't too strong, e.g. Monster Hunter. But it's not a 3.5 spell so I don't think it should be given to all the classes that get Ultravision anyway.
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Re: New spell suggestion - Mass Ultravision
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2023, 05:56:42 PM »
While I'm not entirely against this spell, you've done well to break down just how powerful Darkness is. Right now the cost of putting Ultravision on your party is appropriate, I feel. Something like this would need to have an equivalent tradeoff and be relatively high level (5th or 6th) to match other mass wards. It could otherwise/also be restricted to only a couple classes (Beguiler and Druid make the most sense, thematically). Maybe the option of casting it at a higher level as a Wizard would still be appropriate...

As for why I feel this way: Improved Invisibility targets one ally at 4th level, whereas - as you outlined in your post - Ultravision + the perpetual Darkness available to Warlocks is already significantly stronger. Being able to essentially apply Improved Invis equivalent concealment with a slew of powerful rider effects to an entire party at once goes far beyond a 3rd or 4th level spell, and Warlocks can auto-quicken Darkness so it's not like it's hard to keep the benefits up for the entire duration of the mass spell.


EarlofEtheria

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Re: New spell suggestion - Mass Ultravision
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2023, 06:55:27 PM »
Darkness is great fun, but the vision bug is among the worst. If ultravision gets dispelled in combat the player is essentially done for without replacement. It also has the niche issue of blocking XP gain since you have to be able to see what's dying to get credit for it. It remains one of the most powerful spells, held back by NWN itself.

Bounty

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Re: New spell suggestion - Mass Ultravision
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2023, 04:18:18 AM »
I like the idea of giving it to certain classes that aren't too strong, e.g. Monster Hunter. But it's not a 3.5 spell so I don't think it should be given to all the classes that get Ultravision anyway.

Agreed. It would make the otherwise not very relevant wards of Monster Hunter, Ranger and Assassin, more valuable in group play.

Bounty

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Re: New spell suggestion - Mass Ultravision
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2023, 04:36:37 AM »
While I'm not entirely against this spell, you've done well to break down just how powerful Darkness is. Right now the cost of putting Ultravision on your party is appropriate, I feel. Something like this would need to have an equivalent tradeoff and be relatively high level (5th or 6th) to match other mass wards. It could otherwise/also be restricted to only a couple classes (Beguiler and Druid make the most sense, thematically). Maybe the option of casting it at a higher level as a Wizard would still be appropriate...

As for why I feel this way: Improved Invisibility targets one ally at 4th level, whereas - as you outlined in your post - Ultravision + the perpetual Darkness available to Warlocks is already significantly stronger. Being able to essentially apply Improved Invis equivalent concealment with a slew of powerful rider effects to an entire party at once goes far beyond a 3rd or 4th level spell, and Warlocks can auto-quicken Darkness so it's not like it's hard to keep the benefits up for the entire duration of the mass spell.

A higher spell level might be reasonable yes, the example i gave is merely how it could, not how it should be implemented. I'll happily leave that up for the devs to balance it.

As for you other point, yes while the benefits look incredibly strong when looked at on it's own, keep in mind warlock has a very limited tool set and this is one of the three ways (that i can think of) where a warlock can meaningfully contribute to dungeon play. Full casters already have much stronger and more versatile tools then this at their disposal. 'Mass Ultravision' would serve as a spell given to them, to buff warlocks and make their toolkit more accessable, not the other way around.