Charlotte's Daughters spawning in the Quartier Marchand

[KovosDatch]

Why? This isn't tit-for-tat, this is in-setting reasoning. Monsters prowl the VoB at night.

Because if they are too strong for a higher level area, they have no business being in the server-supported low level area ready to nuke lower level characters.

[Dardonas]

Dardonas replied saying it was not thematic and you followed up on it. But alright.

The fix is having them despawn in the day, not removing them. Or if they are removed from the spawn tables in Port, they ought to be removed from the spawn tables everywhere.

They do despawn during the day. People are suggesting that they are moved from their current location because it is problematic for how the city is supposed to be. My own issue is that they are known to follow players out of the transition and kill NPCs, as well as it just not making sense that the city is rife with monsters. Other people have issues because it harms low level people with an overwhelmingly powerful spawn.

There's three good reasons why the mist spawn should not be in the Marchand, which have been expressed in detail above. It's problematic for some people who play in Port or otherwise people wouldn't have chimed in. So, whether you think it is or isn't theoretically, it should be valid that some people who play in that setting are having issues with it since they are the ones who have to interact with it.

[Madame Trousers Son]

VoB isn't a low level area...

[Abear]

I think they're neat and don't seem that out of place. Scary monsters are cool

[KovosDatch]

VoB isn't a low level area...

That's a whole other debate from another post. I considered it a high level area, when it is a mid level character area at best and I stood corrected.

With a proper party, you can run a number of those dungeons at low as level 7 or 8, which is still low and easily destroyed by the mobs in question.

Dardonas replied saying it was not thematic and you followed up on it. But alright.

The fix is having them despawn in the day, not removing them. Or if they are removed from the spawn tables in Port, they ought to be removed from the spawn tables everywhere.

They do despawn during the day. People are suggesting that they are moved from their current location because it is problematic for how the city is supposed to be. My own issue is that they are known to follow players out of the transition and kill NPCs, as well as it just not making sense that the city is rife with monsters. Other people have issues because it harms low level people with an overwhelmingly powerful spawn.

ALL mist spawns do this. That is the reason they were implement. To give danger and challenge in the night to the places they spawn at. It is so across Barovia, it is so in Dementlieu. To me, it sounds like the spawn is doing its job: posing danger and challenge.

Again, I'm more in favor of having them despawn before day, or remove them entirely from the spawn tables. I'm not against the idea, I'm just saying if we are considering this one place, we ought to consider reviewing the same mob in other places too.

[zDark Shadowz]

The Charlottes Daughters seem appropriate for Port, given thats their origin. The town is a high level area not mid, so if low to high level folk aren't respecting the night they're going to get got.

Outside of it being "from a mist spawn" they are an occurrence that can reasonably happen in port. As for the "Mist Spawn" thing itself, the origin of their appearance could be investigated and potentially resolved to remove them, but it's probably an OOC thing that people find them fun, so no one has organized with the DMs to travel to ground zero and do the leg work.

Things happened in the world immediately before this type of mist crept in.

~~

It's not about lowbies being able to run around and evade. They just need to stay away from it at night entirely, respect the setting they're buying into and they're perfectly fine to keep existing in Port-A-Lucine.

[Dardonas]

The Charlottes Daughters seem appropriate for Port, given thats their origin. The town is a high level area not mid, so if low to high level folk aren't respecting the night they're going to get got.

Outside of it being "from a mist spawn" they are an occurrence that can reasonably happen in port. As for the "Mist Spawn" thing itself, the origin of their appearance could be investigated and potentially resolved to remove them, but it's probably an OOC thing that people find them fun, so no one has organized with the DMs to travel to ground zero and do the leg work.

Again, "respecting the night" is not a theme of Port. The nights are filled with criminals, and if we are going off the source material that's just not an argument you can make. It works for Barovia because it is a theme of Barovia. The mist spawns work great in Barovia because the mists and the night in the domain are supposed to be scary things.

But ASIDE from that, people are having issues with the mist spawns killing NPCs with how close the transition is near the publique, and how those NPCs are notoriously following players into the terraces (the area full of nobles) and killing the NPCs, which is disruptive to RP. The mist spawn NPCs go around killing all the criminals night spawns in the Marchand and Ouvrier and are disruptive to the natural state of the setting.

[Vantes-]

But ASIDE from that, people are having issues with the mist spawns killing NPCs with how close the transition is near the publique, and how those NPCs are notoriously following players into the terraces (the area full of nobles) and killing the NPCs, which is disruptive to RP. The mist spawn NPCs go around killing all the criminals night spawns in the Marchand and Ouvrier.

Better fix: Make sure mist spawns despawn when the day comes. This will fix this issue and others (Fogwardens in Vallaki).

[FinalHeaven]

Disregarding the fact that the Barovia-themed "respecting the night" does not exist in Dementlieu, it's not that the spawns exist that is the issue.  It's that they wander into the Publique (or are dragged there by people ignoring NPCs) and slaughter a pile of NPCs.  Later, players wander by and it's just tedious and annoying to try and get every player on the same page about why there is dead NPCs everywhere.

[Abear]

The initial post was about the Charlotte's Daughters spawns being too strong for PaL, which I disagree with. PaL is a high level area and has dangerous parts of the city which very well could have monsters posing as humans.

If the issue is that they need to be fine tuned so that they don't kill a bunch of NPCs, I agree.

[Madame Trousers Son]

Yeah, here's the thing: even if we fixed all the issues with the night spawns, I think it'd still be kind of ill-fitting for the Charlotte's Daughters to spawn in the Marchand.

Why? Because they're stronger than the Caliban Gangleaders; the criminals are being displaced by real monsters. Dementlieu's mask is slipping. I don't think it fits.

It makes sense for the Red Widows to hide in the Brothel, or to stalk more openly in the Ouvrier, which is a forgotten dead end both figuratively and metaphorically. That's where monsters should let their masks slip more publicly.

If the decision is to go the other way, then I think if we're going to keep having Charlotte's Daughters in the Marchand, then they should appear as another gang. It makes sense if it's dressed up. Maybe add a few Charlotte's Daughters neutral NPCs in the Black Market in the sewers where they can loom with menace.

[Vantes-]

It's a mist spawn. If it were a regular spawn I'd agree. But the very idea of mist spawns is that they're out of place (again, I reference Fogwardens in the middle of Vallaki).

Fix the issue with them persisting during the day, sure.

[Madame Trousers Son]

Okay, but then the issue is still that these Mist Spawns are displacing the gangs...

[Vantes-]

Okay, but then the issue is still that these Mist Spawns are displacing the gangs...

It happens with the wererats in Vallaki, too.

[Calad]

It's a mist spawn. If it were a regular spawn I'd agree. But the very idea of mist spawns is that they're out of place (again, I reference Fogwardens in the middle of Vallaki).

Fix the issue with them persisting during the day, sure.

I'd like to also state again that they are *also* a problem at night because they are 1 transition away from the Publique that's packed with NPCs at every corner, day or night.

And when they run after people, these NPCs die. They shouldn't. This is not like a Vallaki Garda NPC or a random Barovian Peasant NPC dying. Noble NPCs, canon-named NPCs die. It's immersion breaking. That's why I am suggesting to remove them from the Marchand mainly, this wouldn't happen as easily from the Ouvrier to the Savant.

[Lexica]

If the decision is to go the other way, then I think if we're going to keep having Charlotte's Daughters in the Marchand, then they should appear as another gang. It makes sense if it's dressed up. Maybe add a few Charlotte's Daughters neutral NPCs in the Black Market in the sewers where they can loom with menace.

I actually really like this idea. They're highly social and intelligent monsters, and it would make sense if they had a menacing presence as non hostile NPCs.

[myrddraal]

Why dont a bunch of the high levels just go kill them?

[Vantes-]

It's a mist spawn. If it were a regular spawn I'd agree. But the very idea of mist spawns is that they're out of place (again, I reference Fogwardens in the middle of Vallaki).

Fix the issue with them persisting during the day, sure.

I'd like to also state again that they are *also* a problem at night because they are 1 transition away from the Publique that's packed with NPCs at every corner, day or night.

That's why they should be fixed to not transition.

[Edward]

It's a mist spawn. If it were a regular spawn I'd agree. But the very idea of mist spawns is that they're out of place (again, I reference Fogwardens in the middle of Vallaki).

Fix the issue with them persisting during the day, sure.

I'd like to also state again that they are *also* a problem at night because they are 1 transition away from the Publique that's packed with NPCs at every corner, day or night.

That's why they should be fixed to not transition.

I agree, just make it so they don't transition.

[Skelni]

It's a mist spawn. If it were a regular spawn I'd agree. But the very idea of mist spawns is that they're out of place (again, I reference Fogwardens in the middle of Vallaki).

Fix the issue with them persisting during the day, sure.

I'd like to also state again that they are *also* a problem at night because they are 1 transition away from the Publique that's packed with NPCs at every corner, day or night.

That's why they should be fixed to not transition.

I agree, just make it so they don't transition.

I like this.

[Dardonas]

If the decision is to go the other way, then I think if we're going to keep having Charlotte's Daughters in the Marchand, then they should appear as another gang. It makes sense if it's dressed up. Maybe add a few Charlotte's Daughters neutral NPCs in the Black Market in the sewers where they can loom with menace.

I actually really like this idea. They're highly social and intelligent monsters, and it would make sense if they had a menacing presence as non hostile NPCs.

I like this idea, it's a good solution.

The mists should not have as active of a presence within the city. Outside of the city is fine (there is already a mist spawn out there) because there is no Gendarme or prominent NPC presence.

An actual monster is going around Port right now slaughtering people and the setting is responding by trying to blow him up, no matter who gets in the way.

[apeppertoo]

I really think most respondents are ignoring the problem of their wandering in-zone, away from the misty area. I will link my crude drawing again.



It's not a problem unique to the Daughters. I've seen green fog even closer to the Publique. It's a problem of aggroing on the human gangs, defeating them, and by this process getting drawn further and further away from where an experienced player might expect to find them.

[Skelni]

The mists should not have as active of a presence within the city. Outside of the city is fine (there is already a mist spawn out there) because there is no Gendarme or prominent NPC presence.

If that's the case. Why are there not Gendarme NPCs at nighttime patrolling the Marchande. It's an under-secure area is it not? So it would make sense the monsters and thugs can come out to play here more readily.

[Vantes-]

I really think most respondents are ignoring the problem of their wandering in-zone, away from the misty area. I will link my crude drawing again.



It's not a problem unique to the Daughters. I've seen green fog even closer to the Publique. It's a problem of aggroing on the human gangs, defeating them, and by this process getting drawn further and further away from where an experienced player might expect to find them.

This is not unique to that mist spawn. This happens with many mist spawns. So if a fix is going to be put in to avoid the wandering, it would need to focus on all mist spawns, not just this one.

[apeppertoo]

I really think most respondents are ignoring the problem of their wandering in-zone, away from the misty area. I will link my crude drawing again.



It's not a problem unique to the Daughters. I've seen green fog even closer to the Publique. It's a problem of aggroing on the human gangs, defeating them, and by this process getting drawn further and further away from where an experienced player might expect to find them.

This is not unique to that mist spawn. This happens with many mist spawns. So if a fix is going to be put in to avoid the wandering, it would need to focus on all mist spawns, not just this one.

Ok? I'm talking about this one because it's the one I'm most familiar with as a player in Dementlieu. If it's a wide ranging fix that's fine with me.