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Author Topic: Rule Suggestions for Rentals  (Read 1192 times)

Death

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Rule Suggestions for Rentals
« on: February 25, 2023, 03:06:17 PM »
Hello. I would like to make two suggestions I believe would beneficial to the Rental system that would promote fairness in their distribution and use.

1. 1 rental per player.
This would allow for more meaningful usage of the rental and fairer distribution, since rentals are quite a hot commodity, if one player with one character they are focused on owns one rental at a time, versus one player with two or three characters, who one two or three rentals at a time.

2. Official factions with designated faction bases in the module do not own rentals.
I do not believe it is fair for Official Factions, who have areas in the module that are designed for their use, purchase rentals for faction activity. It takes away rentals from characters and player factions who do not have areas of the module that they can use for RP and gatherings.

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Re: Rule Suggestions for Rentals
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2023, 03:09:45 PM »
I'm in agreeance with both of these suggestions.

I've felt a person owning more than one rental at a time is very overbearing, given the population we have and the limited amount of rentals we have - Granted, if they wish to own something small and simple like a tenement room and one other rental, I can see that being fine.

I also feel that when faction members acquire personal rentals - Whether to be used for faction stuff or just their own devices - Is still a bit much given that you functionally could have anywhere of 1-3 different places to do such (Examples being Ezrites have 2 buildings in Vallaki to host things at. Morninglordians have 2 in Vallaki, 1 in VoB). I find it hard to justify letting such characters have more property to mess with.
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Death

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Re: Rule Suggestions for Rentals
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2023, 03:13:28 PM »
I'm in agreeance with both of these suggestions.

I've felt a person owning more than one rental at a time is very overbearing, given the population we have and the limited amount of rentals we have - Granted, if they wish to own something small and simple like a tenement room and one other rental, I can see that being fine.

I also feel that when faction members acquire personal rentals - Whether to be used for faction stuff or just their own devices - Is still a bit much given that you functionally could have anywhere of 1-3 different places to do such (Examples being Ezrites have 2 buildings in Vallaki to host things at. Morninglordians have 2 in Vallaki, 1 in VoB). I find it hard to justify letting such characters have more property to mess with.

There's a bit of a difference between owning a personal rental, and being a faction member who's owning a rental to do faction related activities or holding it in the name of a faction. So I am in agreeance that factions owning rentals for these sorts of purporses is a bit much.

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Re: Rule Suggestions for Rentals
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2023, 03:13:37 PM »
More or less agree but I think that a member of an Official Faction should still be allowed to have a single rental. 

However, I do think it's a bit awkward having multiple members of the same faction owning multiple rentals.  I'm not really sure where the happy medium is there but given the limited number of rentals it seems a bit unfair.



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Re: Rule Suggestions for Rentals
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2023, 03:14:28 PM »
1, yes.

2, no. Speaking as someone who is in two official factions, Port RVT and the Theatre, the RP that happens at my rental could not be done in either faction base. I don’t think it’s an issue either as long as the rentals see consistent use, which staff can now check.

Death

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Re: Rule Suggestions for Rentals
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2023, 04:00:35 PM »
So I think, that if factions need places for RP or gatherings that involve people outside the faction, they should have their bases expanded upon to support that kind of RP so that rentals can remain open for individual RP concepts and characters.

I know that in Vallaki, the Gaping Wound has been classically owned by the Red Vardo Traders and they've hosted events for their faction there. Unfortunately, the Port RVT lacks a place like that so I can totally see why they'd go for the use of rentals for that kind of RP. I'm not certain what the Theatre has but I think that if they do not have spaces within the Theatre to support this kind of RP, it should be added. Of course that's at the discretion of the Dev team and their opinions on the matter.

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Re: Rule Suggestions for Rentals
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2023, 04:06:47 PM »
1 rental per player is a good idea.

While I do think people without official faction bases should have priority to rentals over ones that do, that's a tough line to draw. Ultimately if whoever is renting the place is using it consistently and it serves a purpose (a bar, a faction, a church, whatever else) then I think it's fine.

Death

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Re: Rule Suggestions for Rentals
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2023, 04:10:45 PM »
1 rental per player is a good idea.

While I do think people without official faction bases should have priority to rentals over ones that do, that's a tough line to draw. Ultimately if whoever is renting the place is using it consistently and it serves a purpose (a bar, a faction, a church, whatever else) then I think it's fine.

Yeah I do believe that it's also a tough line to draw because I'm not a genie and I can't really see what kinds of individual RP that official factions are using rentals for, or how often or consistently they're using them.

I'd also like to clarify my thoughts on this. I think that if a faction representative purchases a rental to hold faction related activities and advertises it as such, that is just not fair for players and player factions without the space to conduct their own RP that may be reliant on the owning of a rental to do activities and events.

However, if a faction member purchases a rental to use for RP, concepts and activities that are not related to the official faction that's involving other players consistently then I don't really see it as being completely unfair.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2023, 04:23:17 PM by Death »

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Re: Rule Suggestions for Rentals
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2023, 04:58:16 PM »
As someone who holds a rental in Vallaki currently and was in a supported faction in Vallaki on a previous character up until most recently, I like both suggestions!

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Re: Rule Suggestions for Rentals
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2023, 06:08:23 PM »
I agree in theory, though I think some discussion is needed over the specifics of #2.

Should any member of a faction be unable to rent something for personal use? I think that's a hard question without an easy answer.

More or less agree but I think that a member of an Official Faction should still be allowed to have a single rental. 

However, I do think it's a bit awkward having multiple members of the same faction owning multiple rentals.  I'm not really sure where the happy medium is there but given the limited number of rentals it seems a bit unfair.

This sums up my feeling in theory...that in general I don't think people should be banned from rental ownership just because they're in a faction, but there's definitely an issue if people are able to double-dip.
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Death

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Re: Rule Suggestions for Rentals
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2023, 06:36:53 PM »
I'd also like to clarify my thoughts on this. I think that if a faction representative purchases a rental to hold faction related activities and advertises it as such, that is just not fair for players and player factions without the space to conduct their own RP that may be reliant on the owning of a rental to do activities and events.

However, if a faction member purchases a rental to use for RP, concepts and activities that are not related to the official faction that's involving other players consistently then I don't really see it as being completely unfair.

I want to mention what I said here too. I think there's nothing wrong with having individual faction members rent out rentals if they're using them for rp that's outside of the faction. But if it becomes something that's based around hosting faction related events and RP, I'm not certain that's entirely fair, given that there should at least be enough space within the spaces that are built for them in the module to host events?

This might be a bit of a blunt example, but imagine the hypothetical situation if one of the Wayfarer Kinship members decided to rent out one of the warehouses in Vallaki to host Wayfarer Kinship events in, despite the faction house that they have in the Slums that's more than equipped to hold events and entertain guests.

IC is IC, but I'd consider it a little oocly unfair given that there's a space for them already existing in the module to do stuff with.

But let's say a Wayfarer Kinship member wants to persue an art gallery or apothecary of their own inside one of the warehouses. I wouldn't really think this is unfair because it's implied that this isn't anything faction related. Just something neat to do with a rental that might interest other players.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2023, 06:46:18 PM by Death »

Calad

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Re: Rule Suggestions for Rentals
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2023, 06:53:57 PM »
-Adjusted to prevent misinformation.-



Second; I agree for example Morninglordians shouldn't grab another rental to make it into a temple. But I also understand why factions sometimes do it. Faction Bases cannot be altered with, decorated, changed. And they are not always suited for every type of roleplay. If faction bases were expanded upon and given the amenities rentals have, I could see that being acceptable.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2023, 07:06:18 PM by Calad »
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Dardonas

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Re: Rule Suggestions for Rentals
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2023, 06:55:44 PM »
One is already implemented.


A player can only have 1 inn-room rental (Novak's, Hotel, Tenements) and 1 other (Shops, warehouses, etc.)

I recently had to give up one of my two rentals, based on this ruling, so it is real.

If you see a player owning two inn room rentals or two shops or more, report them.


Second; I agree for example Morninglordians shouldn't grab another rental to make it into a temple. But I also understand why facrions sometimes do it. Faction Bases cannot be altered with, decorated, changed. And they are not always suited for every type of roleplay. If faction bases were expanded upon and given the amenities rentals have, I could see that being acceptable.

One isn't implemented. It's currently one rental per character, not one rental per player.

Death

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Re: Rule Suggestions for Rentals
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2023, 07:02:33 PM »
Second; I agree for example Morninglordians shouldn't grab another rental to make it into a temple. But I also understand why factions sometimes do it. Faction Bases cannot be altered with, decorated, changed. And they are not always suited for every type of roleplay. If faction bases were expanded upon and given the amenities rentals have, I could see that being acceptable.

Yes, this kind of stuff happening also signals to me that there might be particular aspects of faction areas that haven't been expanded on enough. I'm not certain how it looks for the Port RVT, but they have one tiny little office and some backrooms that aren't open to the general public, versus the Vallaki RVT, that has a bar and a front store that's implemented in for RP.

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Re: Rule Suggestions for Rentals
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2023, 01:11:47 AM »
One is already implemented.


A player can only have 1 inn-room rental (Novak's, Hotel, Tenements) and 1 other (Shops, warehouses, etc.)

I recently had to give up one of my two rentals, based on this ruling, so it is real.

If you see a player owning two inn room rentals or two shops or more, report them.


Second; I agree for example Morninglordians shouldn't grab another rental to make it into a temple. But I also understand why facrions sometimes do it. Faction Bases cannot be altered with, decorated, changed. And they are not always suited for every type of roleplay. If faction bases were expanded upon and given the amenities rentals have, I could see that being acceptable.

One isn't implemented. It's currently one rental per character, not one rental per player.

 Also thats 2 rentals. Novaks and shop.


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Re: Rule Suggestions for Rentals
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2023, 05:54:12 AM »
-Adjusted to prevent misinformation.-



Second; I agree for example Morninglordians shouldn't grab another rental to make it into a temple. But I also understand why factions sometimes do it. Faction Bases cannot be altered with, decorated, changed. And they are not always suited for every type of roleplay. If faction bases were expanded upon and given the amenities rentals have, I could see that being acceptable.

I do love this or at the very least the server accepting the possibility of changes being made to faction locations that make sense and have the provided rp. As a persistent world a lot of things are just endlessly frozen in time and never change. And for long-time players, it becomes immensely stale. It took forever for the Ladys rest to get an update. And yet something like the ML outskirts temple has had countless fundraisers, long on going rp for repairs and clean up efforts in the more than decade iv been here and hasn't gotten any changes.

I understand keeping a certain feel for locations. Obviously the ML outskirts temple, for example, wont go from how it currently is to suddenly being as vast or opulent as the ezrite temple in the city. But the removeale of the rubble by the door, Some on themed decorations, and fitting adjustments to reflect that invested effort would show a persistent world that can reflect some change that players invest in.

Anastian

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Re: Rule Suggestions for Rentals
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2023, 10:45:36 AM »
One rental per player - Fully agree but I feel like it's hard to policy with people being able to have multiple log-in names

Official factions have no rentals - I agree on the fact that if this is implemented all factions should have an appropriate, customizable rental at their disposal to make things equal and to enable their RP (see Gaping wound example). As an example, Port RVT office is simply not useable for public events as it's a faction base filled with NPCs.

Moreover, I agree with Dardonas. Players can do stuff that is not related to their faction in rentals, be it temporary or permanent one. As long as it's used properly to generate RP and involve other people I think it's fine. It goes back to the issue of everyone wanting access to a rental sooner or later, which has been discussed for ages in other posts. Now that rentals are under DM scrutiny however, you can expect the under-used ones to be re-assigned
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Re: Rule Suggestions for Rentals
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2023, 11:23:05 AM »
One rental per player - Fully agree but I feel like it's hard to policy with people being able to have multiple log-in names

Official factions have no rentals - I agree on the fact that if this is implemented all factions should have an appropriate, customizable rental at their disposal to make things equal and to enable their RP (see Gaping wound example). As an example, Port RVT office is simply not useable for public events as it's a faction base filled with NPCs.

Moreover, I agree with Dardonas. Players can do stuff that is not related to their faction in rentals, be it temporary or permanent one. As long as it's used properly to generate RP and involve other people I think it's fine. It goes back to the issue of everyone wanting access to a rental sooner or later, which has been discussed for ages in other posts. Now that rentals are under DM scrutiny however, you can expect the under-used ones to be re-assigned

I think they can track players across different user names, otherwise they would never be able to enforce a temporary or permament ban. A person might be able to go to very extreme lengths to circumvent this but that's possible for many determined people in life, and all you can do is mitigate it as best you can. The rental system here is very hard to get into and I think it's absolutely fair that people should be restricted to 1 rental at a time.

I also wonder about some of the rentals use, if you rent a rental designated as a SHOP it should only be permitted to be used as a shop, I don't think its fair that it can be used as a unofficial faction base, or a warehouse being used for anything other than a warehouse, again owing to rental systems being limited in number and extremely hard to own for the majority of the playerbase. Unlss this restriction is in place? I am not sure though looking at some of the descriptions personally.

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Re: Rule Suggestions for Rentals
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2023, 11:27:02 AM »
I also wonder about some of the rentals use, if you rent a rental designated as a SHOP it should only be permitted to be used as a shop, I don't think its fair that it can be used as a unofficial faction base, or a warehouse being used for anything other than a warehouse, again owing to rental systems being limited in number and extremely hard to own for the majority of the playerbase. Unlss this restriction is in place? I am not sure though looking at some of the descriptions personally.
I strongly disagree on this point. Both shops and warehouse rentals have been used to excellent effect by players and factions to facilitate a huge swathe of RP and represent a wide variety of locales beyond "a shop" and "a warehouse". What RP would you even have in an actual warehouse? Churches, clinics, consulates, lodges - this is where the fun stuff is, and restricting that would be a huge downgrade from what we have now.

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Re: Rule Suggestions for Rentals
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2023, 11:34:49 AM »
I also wonder about some of the rentals use, if you rent a rental designated as a SHOP it should only be permitted to be used as a shop, I don't think its fair that it can be used as a unofficial faction base, or a warehouse being used for anything other than a warehouse, again owing to rental systems being limited in number and extremely hard to own for the majority of the playerbase. Unlss this restriction is in place? I am not sure though looking at some of the descriptions personally.
I strongly disagree on this point. Both shops and warehouse rentals have been used to excellent effect by players and factions to facilitate a huge swathe of RP and represent a wide variety of locales beyond "a shop" and "a warehouse". What RP would you even have in an actual warehouse? Churches, clinics, consulates, lodges - this is where the fun stuff is, and restricting that would be a huge downgrade from what we have now.

You can still roleplay in a shop however you like, the type of roleplay that you can do inside a location isn't restricted to what the area does, but if you have rented a shop location, it's function should be just that, to serve as a shop, and not for example as your characters personal home/base, or a place soley for your group of friends to interact with each other. If the number of rental area could be increased in a meaningful way this would be less of an issue, but it's likely to always be the case that it won't be.

Death

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Re: Rule Suggestions for Rentals
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2023, 11:38:38 AM »
Logins are associated with CD Keys in NWN.

I think we should also keep in topic with my original posting. This isn't really an issue with how the rentals themselves are used, moreso who is renting them and if they are members of an official faction trying to monopolize on rental space for official faction activity.

I agree that faction spaces that are lacking heavily in areas that they can host faction activities for the player-base (ex. Port RVT) should have areas made for them, or redesigned to facilitate this.

For example, there's a cabaret in the Marchand that goes a little unrecognized and underused since it was added to the module. What if this area was made to be an area where the RVT ran it behind the scenes and operated gambling tables, auctions, shows, etc?
« Last Edit: February 26, 2023, 11:41:16 AM by Death »

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Re: Rule Suggestions for Rentals
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2023, 12:08:04 PM »
You can still roleplay in a shop however you like, the type of roleplay that you can do inside a location isn't restricted to what the area does, but if you have rented a shop location, it's function should be just that, to serve as a shop, and not for example as your characters personal home/base, or a place soley for your group of friends to interact with each other.
And this is not how they are used either. The shops and warehouses are already public-facing, what you suggest is just reductive with no associated benefit.

As for the cabaret, that has its own NPC management as well as players involved. Though the larger idea is sound - more usable spaces are always welcome.

Anastian

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Re: Rule Suggestions for Rentals
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2023, 01:25:01 PM »
If the concern is connected with the RVT owning two rentals in the Savant at the current time, IC events led to the passage of property of said rentals. In the past, the Bellegarde Consortium (Port unofficial faction - Rival to the RVT) had at least 2 establishments associated with them that were managed by different players, with some degree of connection with the Bellegarde.

In all these situations, the rentals were used not as a faction base, but to promote other kinds of RP/Activities connected to the PCs (lounge, restaurant, whiskey bar + attorney office). To me, the association of a rental with a specific faction is a non-issue as long as broad RP involving players outside said factions is promoted (e.g., room for events and so on). Players belonging to a faction are just in the same situation as others when renting a space. Even if a brand is added on it, they are creating a space to promote a different avenue of RP, not an extension of the faction base.

This said as mentioned before, one rental per player is definitely a good choice as you need time and effort to run a place properly.
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Death

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Re: Rule Suggestions for Rentals
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2023, 01:43:45 PM »
If the concern is connected with the RVT owning two rentals in the Savant at the current time, IC events led to the passage of property of said rentals. In the past, the Bellegarde Consortium (Port unofficial faction - Rival to the RVT) had at least 2 establishments associated with them that were managed by different players, with some degree of connection with the Bellegarde.

In all these situations, the rentals were used not as a faction base, but to promote other kinds of RP/Activities connected to the PCs (lounge, restaurant, whiskey bar + attorney office). To me, the association of a rental with a specific faction is a non-issue as long as broad RP involving players outside said factions is promoted (e.g., room for events and so on). Players belonging to a faction are just in the same situation as others when renting a space. Even if a brand is added on it, they are creating a space to promote a different avenue of RP, not an extension of the faction base.

This said as mentioned before, one rental per player is definitely a good choice as you need time and effort to run a place properly.

If the Port RVT had space within their faction base to host such RP for players, would it be likely that the faction still have these rentals or be interested in the use of them?

Death

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Re: Rule Suggestions for Rentals
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2023, 01:50:14 PM »
I am also curious how long the RVT would OOCly or ICly hold onto such rentals for, if leases would be exchanged between captains and if other players outside of the faction would be offered the opportunity to ever officially own the lease to the rentals at all, since owning the lease also offers the ability to modify and change the appearance of the rental inside to how the owner sees fit for it's use and RP.

IC is IC of course, but this is something I am concerned about in terms of fairness for other players to be able to have the opportunity to use these rentals since they are also quite desirable to have and owning them is a unique experience for those who are fortunate enough to be able to own one.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2023, 01:53:50 PM by Death »