Author Topic: APC's  (Read 825 times)

FunkeyMonkey

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APC's
« on: February 24, 2023, 05:38:54 AM »
What is the take on making Antagonistic Player Charachters a thing, same application process as AMPC/Nobles etc.

It is a huge time, resource investment to build toons, let alone to be a antagonistic one who will most likely catch the ire of would be hero's or factions.
Why not make a application process where a individual or group of friends can role in a concept seperate from the traditional AMPC's.
Still with a limited life span, still offering great roleplay opportunities and ideally establishing themselves in any domain.

Anything from Gundarakite rebels, Falkovnian invaders, Necromancers, Port Gangs.

It doesn't have to be anything too fancy just another option for those wishing to play a antagoniser to spice things up.

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Re: APC's
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2023, 06:10:16 AM »
... apply for werewolf and never polymorph.

Miuo

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Re: APC's
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2023, 07:39:10 AM »
I actually kinda love the idea, as the a/mpc list is a bit niche with options pretty much being only undead or were creatures as themes. An APC could focus more on other story elements, races, and classes without it boiling down to being mostly hunted down for being were/undead. While still getting that bit of a bump up in power and time limit to complete your goal.

While this can be mostly done already, as pointed out it takes a lot of investment of time/effort/and trying to avoid your char being killed off before they even reach the point where they could begin such a plot. And while it can be done another method would be pretty ideal and give more incentive for more people to do it without the stagnation of the "bad guy" is largely the same thing with just a slightly different flavor.

Anything that offers more diversity and shakes up the routine is a good thing in my opinion. Seeing more bad guys that revolve around things like evil covens of witches, barbarian raiding parties, or singular individuals like evil bards who use their abilities to mess with people's minds,  or paladins who fall to become blackguards and perversions of their faith would be a nice change of theme without it being first about them being a vamp, were, etc But about the specific niche elements of the char and how they make the person evil or a problem. Which I think brings a bit more morality into how to face them. As they aren't traditional monsters but actual people.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2023, 07:41:33 AM by Miuo »

Merry Munchkin

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Re: APC's
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2023, 08:00:31 AM »
The only downside I see is that with an MPC, you know what you are dealing with immediately.  An APC would ostensibly blend in with the crowd just like a PC, which could be a problem, unless they flagged themselves hostile to the server just like an MPC.  I dislike the idea of a deliberately antagonistic player being covertly hostile until they choose to PvP -- I think that is just a recipe for a lot of anger and strife.


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Re: APC's
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2023, 08:17:02 AM »
A good idea on its surface, however Merry Munchkin brings up a very valid point. These are things players can and do by their own initiative as is, and I can see a shortcut towards such ends being easily exploited on the one side, and on the other cheapening the efforts of those who do want to pivot their stories towards antagonism. After all, why would I spend time and effort building up a character if a template exists that will let me jump right into it, with so few strings attached it is barely distinguishable from other existing PCs anyway?

Sanguine

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Re: APC's
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2023, 08:38:22 AM »
I feel like (a)MPCs already achieve what's being asked here. With the exception of AMPCs, antagonism is a big goal and it makes sense it takes a long time to come together, I also feel antagonist PCs have a lot more weight because they go betray or oppose those who were perhaps once their friends or allies, making for a better story overall.

AMPCs are more a convenient alternative if you want to get fast tracked, try something new, or maybe you've never played an evil character before.

A lot of the templates are immediately monstrous and there's no way to avoid that, but there are templates that allow you to be more secretly evil if that's your preference.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2023, 08:40:14 AM by Sanguine »

Day Old Bread

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Re: APC's
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2023, 09:43:08 AM »
What is the take on making Antagonistic Player Charachters a thing, same application process as AMPC/Nobles etc.

It is a huge time, resource investment to build toons, let alone to be a antagonistic one who will most likely catch the ire of would be hero's or factions.
Why not make a application process where a individual or group of friends can role in a concept seperate from the traditional AMPC's.
Still with a limited life span, still offering great roleplay opportunities and ideally establishing themselves in any domain.

Anything from Gundarakite rebels, Falkovnian invaders, Necromancers, Port Gangs.

It doesn't have to be anything too fancy just another option for those wishing to play a antagoniser to spice things up.

I'm not sure what's being asked for here.

Antagonistic characters require nothing extra to become antagonistic. I've played a couple in the past, starting from early levels, I was able to build antagonistic themes as a Gundarakite Rebel without getting the gallows. All it requires is that you don't play chaotic stupid. What I mean by that is, your character should behave as one does in real life. They may fight against the established power. But they're not going to do so in broad daylight on a regular basis. They're going to actually learn from their experiences. They're going to commit a crime, be punished for it, and then get smarter about committing that crime again.

If memory serves, I think my rebel got into it right at lvl 2 or 3 and survived for months, all the way until lvl 14 before I accidentally killed her. The point is, there's no need for any application because this doesn't require anything extra to achieve. 

Basically, whether it's a group concept or an individual one, there's nothing stoping any player or group of players from creating a group of antagonists. In some cases, the factions already exist in game. In other cases, you can simply say your character is a Falkovnian invader and then do invasion things. But an invader isn't going to get nearly as far as an infiltrator, in terms of RP.

ladylena

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Re: APC's
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2023, 11:03:04 AM »
While it may seem like there is a disproportional number of good guys versus bad guys, I'd say that may not be the case. When done well, evil and antagonistic characters can maintain a cover for a long time to gain power to be able to reveal themselves.

I've played basically exclusively antagonistic characters (with a few exceptions like Odette and Narcissa) and there is nothing that you need power or extra tool wise to be a good villain. It's in the character creation, in their story and their desires and goals. If you're worried about being "roflstomped" I get that, but that hasn't been happening much to my knowledge, it does still happen but when it does the antagonistic character has made themselves noticed by their actions. It can be discouraging greatly so when your hard work gets cut short, but that's the big thing to remember when playing a villain.

You are the villain in someone elses story.

Your goal as an antagonistic character is to create trouble, to generate roleplay that encourage people to go after you. You are the main character of your own story, yes, but as a shared narrative, you are the evil bad guy that someone wants to put a stop to, that someone wants to kill, or eliminate. When you're a villain your fate is less in your hands and more in the hands of those who would go after you. It's not easy and it does suck when cut short, but that is the risk of playing an antagonist.

The earliest villain I played was Cozette, followed by Tess, Milicent, Lily the reluctant werewolf, Sasha Dominika gaspar, Erzsebet Varga, and more. Every single one of them ended prematurely. Only one of them ended with roleplay, and yes I was upset, you're allowed to be upset, but I don't think we need a special permission style application to play a evil villainous character. Most of the villains I made that became well done were the direct result of the rp that happened to them as they levelled up in power.

In the past there have been groups of players who have organized antagonistic groups for play. I remember partaking in a group of Falkovnians before the first war happened, and that group was purely players. There is nothing stopping you from getting people together OOCly to create a antagonist group and plan your classes so you can dungeon together and level up. We did that when tess was in the cult of nerull, we would dungeon together frequently to get stronger.

There is no need for an application process to be an antagonist. Best advice I can give is to create a character that does not believe they are evil, give them a reason for what they do. Why does the necromancer a necromancer? What happened to make them go that route? Why is the rebel joining the rebels, what happened in their past? Is the Falkovnian willing or forced to do what they do? A port gang, are they poor trying to make their way, or are they trying to get revenge on the upper rich class? Giving them these reasons tends to make the character more easy to get friends and people who will side with them. If you're a necromancer because you just want to bring dead things back for fun, no one is really going to want to help you, but if you are a necromancer who is trying to understand how death works so you can stop people from aging and dying, you may have better luck.

Playing an antagonist that will last for more than a few levels is hard work, it's not just about being mechanically powerful, it's about the driving reason behind them. I love playing villains and if anyone would like advice, feel free to contact me, I'm also usually open to most villainous things. You don't need mechanical goodies or yellow text to be able to play an antagonistic character that will last. Shortest lived villain for me was a three months I think? Or 30 days if you count my ampc Lily. Longest, was 6 years and that was Erzsebet Varga.

If you let the story drive them, you'll find more fulfilling roleplay and an even more amazing story.
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Darkthrasher

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Re: APC's
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2023, 11:33:33 AM »
While it may seem like there is a disproportional number of good guys versus bad guys, I'd say that may not be the case. When done well, evil and antagonistic characters can maintain a cover for a long time to gain power to be able to reveal themselves.

I've played basically exclusively antagonistic characters (with a few exceptions like Odette and Narcissa) and there is nothing that you need power or extra tool wise to be a good villain. It's in the character creation, in their story and their desires and goals. If you're worried about being "roflstomped" I get that, but that hasn't been happening much to my knowledge, it does still happen but when it does the antagonistic character has made themselves noticed by their actions. It can be discouraging greatly so when your hard work gets cut short, but that's the big thing to remember when playing a villain.

You are the villain in someone elses story.

Your goal as an antagonistic character is to create trouble, to generate roleplay that encourage people to go after you. You are the main character of your own story, yes, but as a shared narrative, you are the evil bad guy that someone wants to put a stop to, that someone wants to kill, or eliminate. When you're a villain your fate is less in your hands and more in the hands of those who would go after you. It's not easy and it does suck when cut short, but that is the risk of playing an antagonist.

The earliest villain I played was Cozette, followed by Tess, Milicent, Lily the reluctant werewolf, Sasha Dominika gaspar, Erzsebet Varga, and more. Every single one of them ended prematurely. Only one of them ended with roleplay, and yes I was upset, you're allowed to be upset, but I don't think we need a special permission style application to play a evil villainous character. Most of the villains I made that became well done were the direct result of the rp that happened to them as they levelled up in power.

In the past there have been groups of players who have organized antagonistic groups for play. I remember partaking in a group of Falkovnians before the first war happened, and that group was purely players. There is nothing stopping you from getting people together OOCly to create a antagonist group and plan your classes so you can dungeon together and level up. We did that when tess was in the cult of nerull, we would dungeon together frequently to get stronger.

There is no need for an application process to be an antagonist. Best advice I can give is to create a character that does not believe they are evil, give them a reason for what they do. Why does the necromancer a necromancer? What happened to make them go that route? Why is the rebel joining the rebels, what happened in their past? Is the Falkovnian willing or forced to do what they do? A port gang, are they poor trying to make their way, or are they trying to get revenge on the upper rich class? Giving them these reasons tends to make the character more easy to get friends and people who will side with them. If you're a necromancer because you just want to bring dead things back for fun, no one is really going to want to help you, but if you are a necromancer who is trying to understand how death works so you can stop people from aging and dying, you may have better luck.

Playing an antagonist that will last for more than a few levels is hard work, it's not just about being mechanically powerful, it's about the driving reason behind them. I love playing villains and if anyone would like advice, feel free to contact me, I'm also usually open to most villainous things. You don't need mechanical goodies or yellow text to be able to play an antagonistic character that will last. Shortest lived villain for me was a three months I think? Or 30 days if you count my ampc Lily. Longest, was 6 years and that was Erzsebet Varga.

If you let the story drive them, you'll find more fulfilling roleplay and an even more amazing story.

This is amazingly well said. Let the story drive everything!
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Skelni

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Re: APC's
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2023, 11:49:02 AM »
We've already got MPCs that do this. If you want instantaneous Antagonistic characters, you can be a mid level monster out of the gate.
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myrddraal

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Re: APC's
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2023, 11:52:26 AM »
Playing antagonistic characters is fun mostly because there are PROACTIVE rather than reactive.  I’ve played a hero character.  It’s awful sitting around just waiting for something to happen for you to react to.  Often times it means your high level PC that’s stealthing around, impossible to spot without hundreds of thousands in spot gear and levels for skill points, will jump down the throat of someone who’s like level 5 and summoned a skeleton once.  However like mentioned above, you need to invest a massive amount of time to level to be a meaningful threat for more than all of 5 minutes before people call in aforementioned high levels.  That character is then banished and their RP basically dies and the heroes go back to being bored until they can pull the murder trigger again.

If you aren’t level like 17 and enchanted a bit before you start being actually antagonistic, you’re going to have a bad time.

MAB77

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Re: APC's
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2023, 12:26:15 PM »
Indeed there is no need for an application process for what can already be accomplished by PCs, and we can already reach out to DMs to pitch a good story arc. No special status is required for that.

Contrary to belief though, a good antagonist isn't a question of level nor of alignment. It's a question of patience and opportunity. You do not need to be a badass in battle to cultivate alliances and manipulate events toward a certain outcome. I've certainly seen lower level characters perform admirably as villains over the years. A hero sticking to its principle and being pro-active about it can stir a lot of drama too. After all what is People's Champion (the PrC), if not an antagonist to its own church?
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ladylena

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Re: APC's
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2023, 12:33:08 PM »
Playing antagonistic characters is fun mostly because there are PROACTIVE rather than reactive.  I’ve played a hero character.  It’s awful sitting around just waiting for something to happen for you to react to.  Often times it means your high level PC that’s stealthing around, impossible to spot without hundreds of thousands in spot gear and levels for skill points, will jump down the throat of someone who’s like level 5 and summoned a skeleton once.  However like mentioned above, you need to invest a massive amount of time to level to be a meaningful threat for more than all of 5 minutes before people call in aforementioned high levels.  That character is then banished and their RP basically dies and the heroes go back to being bored until they can pull the murder trigger again.

If you aren’t level like 17 and enchanted a bit before you start being actually antagonistic, you’re going to have a bad time.

I would normally disagree with this, but with the way things have changed, there is a lot of truth to that. If you're not built like a powerbuild and do not have all the best gear, it's going to be a lot harder.  If you don't have the most damaging weapons, spells, feats etc, you will end up at odds against the influx of players who build that way. And there is also the issue of how some players are more eager to stomp out any shadow of darkness before it can grow. And that is part of their character, that's cool, but there are things that both sides can take into consideration:

1. Communication between players can foster better stories
2. This is a shared narrative, that means player A may tell their best friend player Z, and Z may then reach out to their buddy X, who knows a few  Y, R, Q who are known to be powerful, and they may then contact player B. Now something you thought was between Villain A and player A, is now much more wide spread.
3. You do not have to use combat mechanics to deal with combat. You can roleplay it out, player versus player is really character versus character.

While it can become difficult to play a villain, it is certainly not something for everyone, and when playing a villain you must really come to terms with the fact that your character is going to die. You will not live to see level 20, you will not live years and years, you will not come out on top. But most of all You will not win.[/u]

If you play a villain with the goal of winning, you'll end up sorely disappointed. If you play the villain for the impact it will have on other stories, much can happen and it eases the crummines of a story cut short.

This is ravenloft, this is gothic horror, there is no real winning on either side. When you can shift the focus off of that and consider antagonists the same as A/MPCs and accept that they will come to an end, it enables you to enjoy the process.

I hate to say it, but if you don't want things to happen to your character, or consequences to occure, or stories to be cut short, perhaps this is not the most suitable server for you.
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Maiyannah

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Re: APC's
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2023, 12:38:48 PM »
I once observed thus, and I still find it true:

In a setting like Ravenloft, where the oppressive if not downright evil is the norm and what people accept to be normal life, what is disruptive - and thus, antagonistic - is a truly upstanding, good, noble character whom sticks to their principles rather than bowing in the wind of common, popular opinion which has consequences for not following.

This is, ultimately, what one always ends up exploring with a Paladin in particular, and it certainly will be what marks Livu's story.

Good has no real foothold here, and the powers that be want it to stay that way.  You *are* going to be antagonistic if you genuinely intend otherwise.
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SardineTheAncestor

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Re: APC's
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2023, 06:21:06 PM »
I think a major hurdle that has to be gotten over eventually is that the long levelup loop actually doesn't contribute much except feelings of attachment and a desire to hold onto characters well past their point of no return. There is a threshold you cross where sunk cost fallacy sets in and at that point closure needs to happen under a very specific set of circumstances or it comes with hurt feelings. At the same time, a character that is so weak at the start of their life that they can accomplish not even self defence would be dissatisfying to anyone who wanted to be the villain without waiting until they're high level or a DM invulnerability to hatch with.

People like getting to level 20 to unleash all their powers, but I still see it as a detriment. It takes long enough to get to level 14, 4-6 months (or longer if you're not online much) can host a huge amount of RP. I would argue that the longer you go, the more chance there is of all the gravitas just drifts away. There's not one RP medium I haven't observed it taking place and now that I'm here I really see what people mean. There were external factors but after the first year or so all of my characters went downhill to the point that even I question the legitimacy of playing them anymore, and making a new character just tends to be frustrating when I know that'll happen again whether or not I try another DM plot that's doomed to end without resolution
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Re: APC's
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2023, 07:13:52 PM »
I think a major hurdle that has to be gotten over eventually is that the long levelup loop actually doesn't contribute much except feelings of attachment and a desire to hold onto characters well past their point of no return. There is a threshold you cross where sunk cost fallacy sets in and at that point closure needs to happen under a very specific set of circumstances or it comes with hurt feelings. At the same time, a character that is so weak at the start of their life that they can accomplish not even self defence would be dissatisfying to anyone who wanted to be the villain without waiting until they're high level or a DM invulnerability to hatch with.

People like getting to level 20 to unleash all their powers, but I still see it as a detriment. It takes long enough to get to level 14, 4-6 months (or longer if you're not online much) can host a huge amount of RP. I would argue that the longer you go, the more chance there is of all the gravitas just drifts away. There's not one RP medium I haven't observed it taking place and now that I'm here I really see what people mean. There were external factors but after the first year or so all of my characters went downhill to the point that even I question the legitimacy of playing them anymore, and making a new character just tends to be frustrating when I know that'll happen again whether or not I try another DM plot that's doomed to end without resolution

There's no reason anyone needs to be high level to play an antagonistic character. As Maiyannah has pointed out. Even good guys can be antagonistic, especially when they lean heavily into the good guy overzealous archetype. That said, being bad is something you can start doing at lvl 2 you just need to be smart about your being bad. Being defiant yet compliant. Obeying the laws of the zone without putting the guard characters in a position to really severely punish you. Taking small jabs early, just enough to garner sympathy from the other "do gooders" of the specific area you're playing in makes a big big difference.

I definitely see what you're saying though. The more time you invest, the harder it can be to let go. But, if you're playing an intentionally antagonistic character, it's not terribly different from playing and MPC/aMPC where you know your time is going to be more limited.

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Re: APC's
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2023, 07:43:36 PM »
Quote
While it can become difficult to play a villain, it is certainly not something for everyone, and when playing a villain you must really come to terms with the fact that your character is going to die. You will not live to see level 20, you will not live years and years, you will not come out on top. But most of all You will not win.

This sort of depends on the scale upon which and who you villainize though. It's possible to be a villain, loose a battle or even a war but open up a new chapter for the character.  The issue becomes more about whether your villain is willing to adapt to circumstances and change their goals.

Also, it takes about 2 months to hit level 13 with a decent knowledge of the server and leveling spots, so if you really wanted to push to 13 and get some gear to be on par with an AMPC before you start to be antagonistic, it's not all that much of an investment time wise, and really if you are dedicated you could get to 13 by the time you wrote an AMPC app, got it approved, and got steam in game.

More importantly, juicy, story rich villains are made whole by the adversity they face in their weak moments.  The origin story of the villain is the real meat of the enjoyment imho, and not starting at level 2 deprives an organic build up which is detrimental to the player and the audience.

Villains do not always have to be super-villains either.  There are a few of us crooks out there that made it to level 20 after a few years despite it all, but you have to avoid being an outright necromancer or fiend summoner and be more of an antagonistic anti-hero.   

myrddraal

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Re: APC's
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2023, 08:22:50 PM »
I think a major hurdle that has to be gotten over eventually is that the long levelup loop actually doesn't contribute much except feelings of attachment and a desire to hold onto characters well past their point of no return. There is a threshold you cross where sunk cost fallacy sets in and at that point closure needs to happen under a very specific set of circumstances or it comes with hurt feelings. At the same time, a character that is so weak at the start of their life that they can accomplish not even self defence would be dissatisfying to anyone who wanted to be the villain without waiting until they're high level or a DM invulnerability to hatch with.

People like getting to level 20 to unleash all their powers, but I still see it as a detriment. It takes long enough to get to level 14, 4-6 months (or longer if you're not online much) can host a huge amount of RP. I would argue that the longer you go, the more chance there is of all the gravitas just drifts away. There's not one RP medium I haven't observed it taking place and now that I'm here I really see what people mean. There were external factors but after the first year or so all of my characters went downhill to the point that even I question the legitimacy of playing them anymore, and making a new character just tends to be frustrating when I know that'll happen again whether or not I try another DM plot that's doomed to end without resolution

There's no reason anyone needs to be high level to play an antagonistic character. As Maiyannah has pointed out. Even good guys can be antagonistic, especially when they lean heavily into the good guy overzealous archetype. That said, being bad is something you can start doing at lvl 2 you just need to be smart about your being bad. Being defiant yet compliant. Obeying the laws of the zone without putting the guard characters in a position to really severely punish you. Taking small jabs early, just enough to garner sympathy from the other "do gooders" of the specific area you're playing in makes a big big difference.

I definitely see what you're saying though. The more time you invest, the harder it can be to let go. But, if you're playing an intentionally antagonistic character, it's not terribly different from playing and MPC/aMPC where you know your time is going to be more limited.

A very recent example of "high levels turned villain" is the Black Duke cult.  Part of the reason it was so successful was that 1) it was DM supported and 2) the thing basically opened with long time heavy hitters who were already interested in providing antagonism anyway.  If it had been a bunch of level 7s running around, they'd immediately have been stamped out.  MUST you be a high level character?  No.  I remember fighting like 15 people in the outskirts on a level 10 who was forced to retreat.  Was a fun time.  Another issue entirely is villains cycling out where heroes can be murdered a thousand times inconsequentially.  Other than an hours worth of dungeoning for gold.

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Re: APC's
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2023, 08:48:56 PM »
A similar sort of thing was suggested a year or so ago here: https://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=58017.0

The principle behind it is that you can apply to have larger roles but not quite be in the field of being a monster.

Additionally, the idea that you can play Falkovnian invaders and the like — that's already possible. Speaking as the person who organized the recent Barovian mob, all it took was getting the timing right on discord and we were able to create an impactful group of PCs. Now, if you want levels or "weight" behind what you are doing, that's a different story, and you'd probably either need to consider being an AMPC with a group concept, do it in NCE, or just bite the bullet and level up to a target level before engaging in your story.

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Re: APC's
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2023, 08:16:42 AM »
It sounds more like the fact that anyone over 15 can come in and destroy things.if that is the case perhaps the server could consider a lower maximum level.

But I will say this from experience. A high level can be trumped by a low level at the right time and right moment.

Power building, more so than level, is what will be more an issue. It is a roleplay server, not a mmorpg or mmo. If we focus away from winning things may improve.

There is a bit of a difference in how easy it is to come back as antagonist and protagonist. Maybe we could implement a limit on the number of total respawn or ressurections or something?
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jimkaf

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Re: APC's
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2023, 08:27:18 AM »
I'm always thinking of the whole range of levels, lower ones included as an opportunity to both really get the feel of your own PC and let external factors shape them be it protagonist, antagonist or whatever else is intended, also an opportunity for the PC to both establish themselves and a network of friends and allies or potentially targets or nemesis. But I do know that some prefer to have a very definite course planned for their PCs so I guess I can see the appeal of something like that.

To be honest though from my experience, while I've seen some very well done ampcs the MPCs I found most memorable were the ones without the 'a' in front, they were way more impactful to me perhaps because it's possible to actually witness what shaped them in game through your own PCs, if that makes sense.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2023, 11:07:39 AM by jimkaf »
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Zyemeth

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Re: APC's
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2023, 11:01:02 AM »
This would require a server wide overhaul and rebalance as well as a drastic drop in population as it shifts from an RP server to a survival horror.

FinalHeaven

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Re: APC's
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2023, 12:16:25 PM »
I don't think this is necessary.  I think both AMPC and MPC roles fit this category just fine.

 I've yet to play an AMPC and I definitely acknowledge it's probably harder to be safe depending on where you are based.  I think that a lot of times, people look at AMPCs as "monsters of the week" and I don't really think that's a good mindset.  They're meant to help enforce the setting and atmosphere of the server and people could do with allowing themselves to be a bit more immersed.  Though I'd also say that I've seen some AMPCs played like they're standard characters, and I don't think that's helpful either.

If someone is interested in playing a more antagonistic role and wants some tools to aid with that, I'd highly recommend trying an MPC first.  You have the benefit of already knowing your characters story, ambitions, and weaknesses.  It's a very different experience than standard play, imo, and changed a lot about how I personally view the server.

I think that the best villains are those that mostly stand on their own without DM support.  Everyone should get a bit of help and some cool scenes now and then, but I find characters that accomplish things mostly of their own merit to be the most compelling.



Imperial

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Re: APC's
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2023, 12:56:46 PM »
I got some experience with regards to playing villains, (A)MPCs or no. If anyone ever wants advice on how to play one, please feel free to reach out.