You have been taken by the Mists

Author Topic: Emotes are awkward and semifunctional now  (Read 1269 times)

Cibola

  • New to the Mists
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Emotes are awkward and semifunctional now
« on: February 07, 2023, 07:29:36 AM »
Before the change (I don't know how recent it is) certain emotes enclosed in [square brackets] would trigger animations. After the change doing this requires putting an asterisk in front of the word you want to trigger an animation. The asterisk breaks up the normal emote format and looks weird, turning [raises a brow and rubs his chin thoughtfully] into the now necessary [raises a brow and *rubs his chin thoughtfully]. This was presumably done to put a stop to awkward moments when somebody [lets their hair fall down to their shoulders] and faceplants in the mud, but these were hardly much of a nuisance and mostly just kind of funny when you saw it. Assuming the change is intentional, it seems mostly pointless.

Also, a lot of the emote abbreviations are outright broken now whether you use an asterisk or not. I used the example of [*rubbing your chin] but it doesn't even work. Nor do [*crossing your arms], [taking a *drink], and several others that I know used to work fine. Here's a list of the broken emotes that you can now only get by using the @emote command and the number:

1    hips    Juts out hip to the side
5    looks    Look into the distance
10    knocks    Knock on the door/window
12    settrap    Mimic setting a trap
13    unlock    Mimic using/unlocking an item/door
15    dizzy    Dizzy
21    pipes    Play pipes
22    guitar / lute    Play guitar/lute
23    drink    Drink
24    extend    Extend hands
25    pushup    Perform pushups
26    dance    Dance
27    handsback    Hold your hands behind your back
29    push    Act as you're pushing something big
30    feed    Take hold of and feed upon your prey (Useful for MPC's)
32    chin    Hold your chin, other hand on hip
33    cower    Cower in fear
34    crossarms    Cross your arms
38    hang    Hang from chains
39    chop    Chop wood
41    mounthorse    Mount Horse (horse not included)
« Last Edit: February 07, 2023, 07:32:26 AM by Cibola »

Chadyo

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 570
  • Don't you deserve better than a part-time deity?
    • My crafting post!
Re: Emotes are awkward and semifunctional now
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2023, 08:02:26 AM »
See also:
https://nwnravenloft.fandom.com/wiki/Emote_List

MAB's spoken on this before however, I don't remember what he said but it's easier to change to *EMOTE GOES HERE* even though I've just openly accepted that [EMOTE HERE] will lead to my character sometimes flopping onto the ground and going to sleep whenever I even mention lay/sleep. Not worth it it change it now imo.

rapsam2003

  • Church of Ezra - Refuge of Fifth Light
  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
  • Stranger Lands...
Re: Emotes are awkward and semifunctional now
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2023, 09:32:13 AM »
They seem quite functional and easy to use, even with the change. Just need to know what the keyword is. For example, if you're typing, [Nods emphatically to Person], then what's the action you're emoting? Nodding. So, it becomes [*Nods emphatically to Person]

Cibola

  • New to the Mists
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: Emotes are awkward and semifunctional now
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2023, 10:18:19 AM »
They seem quite functional and easy to use, even with the change. Just need to know what the keyword is. For example, if you're typing, [Nods emphatically to Person], then what's the action you're emoting? Nodding. So, it becomes [*Nods emphatically to Person]

I'm aware of how to use them, but I don't care for how they look in the middle of an [emote]:

Quote
The asterisk breaks up the normal emote format and looks weird, turning [raises a brow and rubs his chin thoughtfully] into the now necessary [raises a brow and *rubs his chin thoughtfully].


Merry Munchkin

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 941
Re: Emotes are awkward and semifunctional now
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2023, 12:15:42 PM »
Does the emote work if you place the entire phrase between asterisks, or does it have to be directly in front of the word being emoted?  I haven't experimented with it.  For example,
does *rubs his chin* do the same thing as [*rubs his chin]?


Burleigh Burrowell - RIP

Mailbox-2100

  • Heir of the
  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 982
  • "Maudlyn" Argali Dupont, Lazula Zhuelke, and more
Re: Emotes are awkward and semifunctional now
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2023, 12:43:17 PM »

 Hate this change. Like the thread creator mentions, a lot of things don't work at all.

 I mean, I'll live, but I prefer the OG system. Where's my [*holds ears] or even [*takes cover]? I can't be bothered to remember corresponding @emote numbers for everything I want to enhance, nor reference a list every time. I need to be fluid- like the tears battering my visage rn.

Haha jk. I'm fine guys, really.

Spoiler: show

Cyber Viking

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 468
  • Discord: Cyber Viking#6572
Re: Emotes are awkward and semifunctional now
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2023, 12:47:32 PM »

 Hate this change. Like the thread creator mentions, a lot of things don't work at all.

 I mean, I'll live, but I prefer the OG system. Where's my [*holds ears] or even [*takes cover]? I can't be bothered to remember corresponding @emote numbers for everything I want to enhance, nor reference a list every time. I need to be fluid- like the tears battering my visage rn.

Haha jk. I'm fine guys, really.

Spoiler: show


+1

I don't know why this change happened there were many other options that didn't initiate the emotes like *  *, "  ", (  ), {  }. Was a change that inconveniences others when those that didn't like emoting when giving their descriptions has other options available.


Cibola

  • New to the Mists
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: Emotes are awkward and semifunctional now
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2023, 12:58:27 PM »
Does the emote work if you place the entire phrase between asterisks, or does it have to be directly in front of the word being emoted?  I haven't experimented with it.  For example,
does *rubs his chin* do the same thing as [*rubs his chin]?

It has to be enclosed in square brackets, so enclosing emotes in asterisks instead of square brackets isn't a replacement. Not that I'd want it to be since I don't like how that looks anyhow.

Merry Munchkin

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 941
Re: Emotes are awkward and semifunctional now
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2023, 01:10:39 PM »
Does the emote work if you place the entire phrase between asterisks, or does it have to be directly in front of the word being emoted?  I haven't experimented with it.  For example,
does *rubs his chin* do the same thing as [*rubs his chin]?

It has to be enclosed in square brackets, so enclosing emotes in asterisks instead of square brackets isn't a replacement. Not that I'd want it to be since I don't like how that looks anyhow.

That was an old school way of doing emotes a looooong time ago (at least when I started first playing NWN).  I am not sure when the convention changed.  It looks weird until you get used to it.  I sometimes forget and do it the old way, confusing people.


Burleigh Burrowell - RIP

slash

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 744
Re: Emotes are awkward and semifunctional now
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2023, 01:56:50 PM »
The confusing thing to me as a returning player is that there is no indication that any change took place. I just assumed I was doing something wrong. If I were a new player, I would have no idea how this system works and would just assume it didn't exist. I rely a lot on motion emotes to convey things so having no access to them kinda stinks.

I think the old hybrid system was better, where typing something in brackets would perform an emote, and so would using the @emote command. Mostly because it self-demonstrates and doesn't require a bug report to know that it exists.  :lol:
"My soul is overflowing with obeisant reverence, and Your Most Illustrious Excellency of benignity, to you I most humbly bow." -Francesco Ferdinando Alfieri.

HM01

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 342
  • The Department of Gnomeland Security
Re: Emotes are awkward and semifunctional now
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2023, 02:05:19 PM »
This is what happens when the squeaky wheels get the grease.

I personally thought the old way was not that much of an inconvenience, and that this new system will result in less emotes overall.

zDark Shadowz

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 684
Re: Emotes are awkward and semifunctional now
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2023, 02:35:35 PM »
If the only issue people had was with the "fall" emote, should've just left it at that. Hindsight is 20/20 though.

InMyDarkestHours

  • The Underworld
  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 463
  • I reveal my heart, to this beauty dressed in dark
Re: Emotes are awkward and semifunctional now
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2023, 02:51:39 PM »
The issue was primarily the fall emote. The requested solution was to change 'falls' or have a toggle.

The given solution does appear to have a few issues,

e.g. [*holds chin], [*holds chin*], *holds chin* doesn't work, but [holds *chin] works.
Though [crosses *arms] doesn't work, but [*crosses arms] / [*crosses arms*] works.

Perhaps the old system could be returned but instead of the trigger for the falls emote to be "falls", maybe it should require "falls forward" or "falls over", just like how "crosses" or "arms" without both didn't trigger the crossing of arms emote.

On another note you can perform the emotes using the Party channel if you don't want it to show up in the chat window.


Cyber Viking

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 468
  • Discord: Cyber Viking#6572
Re: Emotes are awkward and semifunctional now
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2023, 03:00:13 PM »
The issue was primarily the fall emote. The requested solution was to change 'falls' or have a toggle.

The given solution does appear to have a few issues,

e.g. [*holds chin], [*holds chin*], *holds chin* doesn't work, but [holds *chin] works.
Though [crosses *arms] doesn't work, but [*crosses arms] / [*crosses arms*] works.

Perhaps the old system could be returned but instead of the trigger for the falls emote to be "falls", maybe it should require "falls forward" or "falls over", just like how "crosses" or "arms" without both didn't trigger the crossing of arms emote.

On another note you can perform the emotes using the Party channel if you don't want it to show up in the chat window.

I agree it should be returned and the "falls" command changed. Like "falls over & falls forward" make them fall that way and "falls backward" falls the other way.

And /p is the best tool ever for emoting without the @emote function.


HM01

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 342
  • The Department of Gnomeland Security
Re: Emotes are awkward and semifunctional now
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2023, 03:01:36 PM »
I'm for returning it, if the singular emote people were troubled by could be altered.





^ If it were also possible to expand the rest menu with the rest of the @emote commands, it might open up some doors and make things less confusing for people who aren't overly familiar with the system.

MAB77

  • Developers
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 6461
Re: Emotes are awkward and semifunctional now
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2023, 03:33:59 PM »
The confusing thing to me as a returning player is that there is no indication that any change took place. I just assumed I was doing something wrong. If I were a new player, I would have no idea how this system works and would just assume it didn't exist. I rely a lot on motion emotes to convey things so having no access to them kinda stinks.

All changes, including this one, are listed in our changelogs. I recommend returning players take the time to read them.

I suspect new players would be equally ignorant of the old system, but they are directed to our rules and our resources. It is not hard for a new player to learn of these things.

At the end of the day, I understand that is likely not what the original poster intended, but always remember that these sort of things, however simple they may look to you are never that simple with the game engine.

This new way may not be to the liking of everyone, but it is a fast an efficient way to go about it. It's just that the onus is now on you to tell the system you want the emote to trigger.
Best Regards!
MAB

Dev. Relationist for the Dark Powers.
1 Castle Road, Castle Ravenloft, Village of Barovia.

Cyber Viking

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 468
  • Discord: Cyber Viking#6572
Re: Emotes are awkward and semifunctional now
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2023, 04:00:07 PM »
It's just that the onus is now on you to tell the system you want the emote to trigger.

But that was allready the case with [   ]. The Onus to not make the emote happen was for those that didn't like the falling or accidental emotes to change thier prefixes to any number of options available.


Mark Johansen

  • Developers
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 1588
Re: Emotes are awkward and semifunctional now
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2023, 04:10:27 PM »
The Abbreviation currently mentioned in the list "https://nwnravenloft.fandom.com/wiki/Emote_List" is strictly for use with the @emote command, though they have not yet been fully implemented. I've edited the wiki to underline this.

slash

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 744
Re: Emotes are awkward and semifunctional now
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2023, 04:33:31 PM »
The confusing thing to me as a returning player is that there is no indication that any change took place. I just assumed I was doing something wrong. If I were a new player, I would have no idea how this system works and would just assume it didn't exist. I rely a lot on motion emotes to convey things so having no access to them kinda stinks.

All changes, including this one, are listed in our changelogs. I recommend returning players take the time to read them.

I suspect new players would be equally ignorant of the old system, but they are directed to our rules and our resources. It is not hard for a new player to learn of these things.

At the end of the day, I understand that is likely not what the original poster intended, but always remember that these sort of things, however simple they may look to you are never that simple with the game engine.

This new way may not be to the liking of everyone, but it is a fast an efficient way to go about it. It's just that the onus is now on you to tell the system you want the emote to trigger.

I think I'm just having a hard time understanding the logic behind this change. What was wrong with the old way? Why is the new system better?

Also, I feel like there should be a more effective way of conveying system elements to newbies and returning players than expecting them to search through a 20 year old, 35 page errata thread. When the dev team changes something as integral as emotes on an RP server, they really should make a dedicated thread at the very least.
"My soul is overflowing with obeisant reverence, and Your Most Illustrious Excellency of benignity, to you I most humbly bow." -Francesco Ferdinando Alfieri.

EO

  • Assistant Head DM/Developer
  • Head DMs
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 22469
  • The one and only, the one everyone wants to be!
Re: Emotes are awkward and semifunctional now
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2023, 05:02:43 PM »
There are a few bugs that remain to be fixed but we don’t plan to roll back. Many emotes generated problems and we don’t want to play whack-a-mole with emotes.

Cyber Viking

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 468
  • Discord: Cyber Viking#6572
Re: Emotes are awkward and semifunctional now
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2023, 05:05:26 PM »
In regards to slash's post.
There wasn't really a discussion on this it was just a few posts in the systems request bin an no real dedicated thread made on it and then all of a sudden there was a system change.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2023, 05:16:25 PM by Cyber Viking »


MAB77

  • Developers
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 6461
Re: Emotes are awkward and semifunctional now
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2023, 05:16:17 PM »
In regards to slash's post.
There wasn't really a discussion on this I was just a few posts in the systems request bin an no real dedicated thread made on it and then all of a sudden there was a system change.

One could argue that many changes were not at all discussed in public. A public debate is not requirement for a change, and the dev team often holds its own debates as well in private when a good suggestion is provided. The suggestion of a toggle so that player would not fall by mistake entering an emote was a good one, and we chose to act on it.
Best Regards!
MAB

Dev. Relationist for the Dark Powers.
1 Castle Road, Castle Ravenloft, Village of Barovia.

Day Old Bread

  • Red Academy
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1944
Re: Emotes are awkward and semifunctional now
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2023, 05:24:36 PM »
It's a minor change and I'm sure the devs will work out the kinks. This will allow players to essentially turn on and off their emotes as they please. No longer will you have characters awkwardly falling to the ground when their eyes fall upon someone standing across the road. I tend to use @emote ## for most emote anyways because I learned a while back to avoid using the word fall and most of my emotes are in the past tense so they don't trigger a response unless I want them to via /p [smoke]. Minor change, minor effect on immersion. Give it an update or two and I'm sure you'll have a full list of emote triggers that work with *

Cibola

  • New to the Mists
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: Emotes are awkward and semifunctional now
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2023, 05:26:30 PM »
There are a few bugs that remain to be fixed but we don’t plan to roll back. Many emotes generated problems and we don’t want to play whack-a-mole with emotes.

I'm fine with this. This is fine for me.

Spoiler: show

Cyber Viking

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 468
  • Discord: Cyber Viking#6572
Re: Emotes are awkward and semifunctional now
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2023, 05:28:00 PM »
In regards to slash's post.
There wasn't really a discussion on this I was just a few posts in the systems request bin an no real dedicated thread made on it and then all of a sudden there was a system change.

One could argue that many changes were not at all discussed in public. A public debate is not requirement for a change, and the dev team often holds its own debates as well in private when a good suggestion is provided. The suggestion of a toggle so that player would not fall by mistake entering an emote was a good one, and we chose to act on it.

I would say you could argue that the [  ] users had a form of privilege over the others characters I.e *  *, (   ) & "   ". Since the emote only fired when it was in [  ]. You could say it's now fair across the board. Because the other character types didn't fire scripts.

That's really all that was accomplished by the change. IMO it's hindered more than helped. Everyone was hung up on 1 or 2 emotes firing when they didn't want them to now it's every emote not firing when you want it to. Just makes for a dull looking world where even when people were whispering you could see them laugh now it's just ..... lifeless.

And let's be honest in a game where your PC doesn't do alot already and everyone already looks like statues making it more lifeless isn't the best
« Last Edit: February 07, 2023, 05:32:52 PM by Cyber Viking »