Author Topic: Replace the corpsehiding mechanic  (Read 1817 times)

Evendur

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Re: Replace the corpsehiding mechanic
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2022, 09:50:41 AM »
A point that seems to be overlooked by all those who talk about "accepting consequences" here is that the problem with corpsehiding isnt just for the one being corpsehidden.

The most common issue that I have seen is that people are getting into the position where it would make IC sense to do the corpsehiding, but this mechanic is viewed by many as extremely toxic, personal and disgusting, leading them to not implement any consequences instead. Therefore, a mechanical solution would actually lead to more consequences in the end but with less grievance.


Dale

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Re: Replace the corpsehiding mechanic
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2022, 09:51:30 AM »
Sure, yet you're not really dead when you're corpse hidden it's just an forced break on that character that isn't remotely plot driven, for all we know someone out of sheer spite could just park you in a place where no-one would find you anytime soon.
But the obvious trade-off is the same thing can just be done right back to them. As soon as someone that's corpsehidden is found, 9/10 times they can/will identify who killed them and the consequences can be reversed. If you go around spite corpsehiding people left and right, someone will kill you and do it to you.

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Re: Replace the corpsehiding mechanic
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2022, 09:54:01 AM »
Perhaps we could opt to use some of the items that allow us to dominate person, as you can use that to force someone to forget. We can also do different things instead of killing characters for consequences. There are mutilations or manipulation of others to destroy their lives.

Corpse hiding, while it can be a distasteful thing is not as awful as it was before. Now we have the scrying tool, we can respawn if badly impaired or even turned to ash. We can apply to become MPCs. So yes it sucks, but I think what we could ultimately benefit from doing is opening the line of communcation fully between players. That way it can be discussed and determined what each other are comfortable with and maybe even try to figure out a different option instead of character death and hiding. I know it's hard to feel like anything makes a difference when people can just go get their high level cleric buddy to regenerate the lost appendage or whatever, so perhaps there is something we can do here to help encourage more consequences beyond death. Perhaps the spells could be removed from players or changed and have one that's only available at like end game level to specificly regenerate and regrow lost body parts. That is something that could encourage more consequences and give players something to do other than kill for penalty. If we make it exceptionally hard to regrow lost limbs and what not then it can open a door for a whole new aspect of rp. We could see surgeons doing freaky Lamordian hand transplants or making clockwork replacement hands from metal, we could see mages without a tongue, or fingers who now have to use magic in a different way. There are many options out there but right now the only secure guaranteed way of IC punishment is being corpse hidden. It's the only consequence that isn't easily magicked away.

If you're worried about those who keep coming back right after, badly impaire them, it stops them from being able to instantly respawn.
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Siobhan

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Re: Replace the corpsehiding mechanic
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2022, 09:58:34 AM »
A point that seems to be overlooked by all those who talk about "accepting consequences" here is that the problem with corpsehiding isnt jsut for the one being corpsehidden.

The most common issue that I have seen is that people are getting into the position where it would make IC sense to do the corpsehiding, but this mechanic is viewed by many as extremely toxic, personal and disgusting, leading them to not implement any consequences instead. Therefore, a mechanical solution would actually lead to more consequences in the end but with less grievance.




I think thatís the kind of cultural problem that needs a cultural solution, and tbh, sounds like bleed over from bad IC feelings that bleed out and are confused into bad OOC feelings when there shouldnít be.

Having bad things happen to a character isnít bad OOC. This is in a conflict that was opted into. The player is aware of the stakes involved and has decided following the RP is what they want.
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Re: Replace the corpsehiding mechanic
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2022, 10:13:22 AM »
A point that seems to be overlooked by all those who talk about "accepting consequences" here is that the problem with corpsehiding isnt jsut for the one being corpsehidden.

The most common issue that I have seen is that people are getting into the position where it would make IC sense to do the corpsehiding, but this mechanic is viewed by many as extremely toxic, personal and disgusting, leading them to not implement any consequences instead. Therefore, a mechanical solution would actually lead to more consequences in the end but with less grievance.




I think thatís the kind of cultural problem that needs a cultural solution, and tbh, sounds like bleed over from bad IC feelings that bleed out and are confused into bad OOC feelings when there shouldnít be.

Having bad things happen to a character isnít bad OOC. This is in a conflict that was opted into. The player is aware of the stakes involved and has decided following the RP is what they want.


You're correct. People enter into conflict too-willingly. If they're afraid of eating the consequences, they shouldn't engage. That doesn't just mean attacking people, it means opting into any conflict, even they're the victim. Even if it's an insult thrown, that upon being threatened to retract, was never retracted. That's how conflict happens and works. It's not a permanent death, and if and when it's ever become an issue out-of-character, I've turned it over to the DM Team/Community Council for resolution without a smidgeon of guilt on my conscience.

I'd encourage you all to do the same, instead of worrying about what people think of you, because you aren't your character, and neither should they be.

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Re: Replace the corpsehiding mechanic
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2022, 10:20:37 AM »
There is also to be said that there are characters that are optimised for combat, and PVP combat.

If the culture of "eat the consequences" is brought to its extremes, then these kind of people will thrive, including people with grandfathered equipments.

I am not against a "mechanic" that would turn fair for both the attacker and the defender, but again id rely on the mediation of a CC member to grant on the fairness of it all.
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Re: Replace the corpsehiding mechanic
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2022, 10:26:54 AM »
Bingo.

With great powers come great consequences. It act as a nice deterrent for the higher ups to not brandish their twenty or something levels of powerbuild lavishly.

Also: the whole concept of roleplaying is about tellin stories. Dieing is also part of the story.

Sure, yet you're not really dead when you're corpse hidden it's just an forced break on that character that isn't remotely plot driven, for all we know someone out of sheer spite could just park you in a place where no-one would find you anytime soon.

That seems like a problem that the DM's are well equipped to handle. If it's out of sheer spite and not driven by the story that's unfolded, that's called griefing and is a breach of the rules of PotM

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Re: Replace the corpsehiding mechanic
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2022, 10:28:57 AM »
There is also to be said that there are characters that are optimised for combat, and PVP combat.

If the culture of "eat the consequences" is brought to its extremes, then these kind of people will thrive, including people with grandfathered equipments.

I am not against a "mechanic" that would turn fair for both the attacker and the defender, but again id rely on the mediation of a CC member to grant on the fairness of it all.

There are characters who are built for PvP from day one, and there's a reason I always look at the PvP viability of my character. In the long-term, there are few things that will affect your story more than the inevitable conflict you will enter into as you progress into the mid-teens of your character's lifespan. However, one cannot just enter into PvP wantonly, both parties have to have fulfilled the required criteria and the DM Team/Community Council are involved to some degree in every major PvP event of consequence to review it for rules violations.

So if you're not a character prepared for PvP, or who isn't built/equipped for it, I'd consider taking the opt-out option, even if it's unflattering. That's not me trying to be mean, or a bully, but because it's the reality of the situation. If you take that opt-out, whatever it may be, then you're effectively immune. If you choose not to, then you're actively opting into the conflict, for better or worse.

myrddraal

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Re: Replace the corpsehiding mechanic
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2022, 10:40:54 AM »
Team good has vaulting (perma death essentially given how extremely rare a vault raid will be run considering it takes 2 DMs that are willing) jailing  and corpse hiding as consequences for evil people.  Evil people have corpsehiding and the ba'al verzi which from what I've heard from a few people is inactive atm.  Most of the "best" corpse hiding spots are also well known and I feel like the only real reason this was brought up is because theres a new, largely unknown domain, released that means new spots to punish people meddling into their evil deeds.

Evendur

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Re: Replace the corpsehiding mechanic
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2022, 10:41:15 AM »
A point that seems to be overlooked by all those who talk about "accepting consequences" here is that the problem with corpsehiding isnt jsut for the one being corpsehidden.

The most common issue that I have seen is that people are getting into the position where it would make IC sense to do the corpsehiding, but this mechanic is viewed by many as extremely toxic, personal and disgusting, leading them to not implement any consequences instead. Therefore, a mechanical solution would actually lead to more consequences in the end but with less grievance.




I think thatís the kind of cultural problem that needs a cultural solution, and tbh, sounds like bleed over from bad IC feelings that bleed out and are confused into bad OOC feelings when there shouldnít be.

Having bad things happen to a character isnít bad OOC. This is in a conflict that was opted into. The player is aware of the stakes involved and has decided following the RP is what they want.


You're correct. People enter into conflict too-willingly. If they're afraid of eating the consequences, they shouldn't engage. That doesn't just mean attacking people, it means opting into any conflict, even they're the victim. Even if it's an insult thrown, that upon being threatened to retract, was never retracted. That's how conflict happens and works. It's not a permanent death, and if and when it's ever become an issue out-of-character, I've turned it over to the DM Team/Community Council for resolution without a smidgeon of guilt on my conscience.

I'd encourage you all to do the same, instead of worrying about what people think of you, because you aren't your character, and neither should they be.

While your statement is correct, it ultimately means to walk away from any RP that could include conflict. And that is just plain sad.

Would it not be a lot better for an RP focused game to allow someone to embrace severe consequences for their character instead?

If you need to run from any chance of conflict instead of engaging in rp, that I take this as the greatest proof of a flawed system I could think of.

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Re: Replace the corpsehiding mechanic
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2022, 10:43:13 AM »
There's nothing stopping you from embracing the severe consequences. I like the mechanic and hope it stays. Death is too trivialized as it is and I'd hate to see it get worse. Being dead is a potential consequence of fighting each other with weapons and magic and always has been.
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Evendur

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Re: Replace the corpsehiding mechanic
« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2022, 10:44:29 AM »
Most of the "best" corpse hiding spots are also well known and I feel like the only real reason this was brought up is because theres a new, largely unknown domain, released that means new spots to punish people meddling into their evil deeds.

No, this has been brought up because of the exact opposite reasons: People do not want to corpsehide and I cant even remember the last conflict/PvP death with consequences lasting more then a few days.

People on all sides complain about a lack of consequences as well as the unwillingess to enforce consequences on other players when the mechanic feels as much ooc as it does.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2022, 10:46:08 AM by Evendur »

Siobhan

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Re: Replace the corpsehiding mechanic
« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2022, 10:49:34 AM »
While your statement is correct, it ultimately means to walk away from any RP that could include conflict. And that is just plain sad.

Would it not be a lot better for an RP focused game to allow someone to embrace severe consequences for their character instead?

If you need to run from any chance of conflict instead of engaging in rp, that I take this as the greatest proof of a flawed system I could think of.

I don't walk away from RP conflict at all. I embrace it. I've played in opt-in scenarios on a variety of characters, including against guard factions.

If people feel the need to walk away from RP because they don't want to have the possibility having a time-out from playing their character, that's their choice. It's not one that I tend to make, but I respect that people might want to value their chill hangout in PotM time over high-stakes RP.
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myrddraal

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Re: Replace the corpsehiding mechanic
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2022, 10:55:56 AM »
Most of the "best" corpse hiding spots are also well known and I feel like the only real reason this was brought up is because theres a new, largely unknown domain, released that means new spots to punish people meddling into their evil deeds.

No, this has been brought up because of the exact opposite reasons: People do not want to corpsehide and I cant even remember the last conflict/PvP death with consequences lasting more then a few days.

People on all sides complain about a lack of consequences as well as the unwillingess to enforce consequences on other players when the mechanic feels as much ooc as it does.

Sure, people dont -want- to corpse hide, but its basically the only way evil people have to make sure someone doesn't immediately come back and strike them down for even a brief period of time.  If team evil had the same tools that team good did, you'd see less of it.  But they dont.

Speaking from experience, I've been confronted literally like 2 hours after somehting happened and the body wasnt even discovered yet.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2022, 11:00:08 AM by myrddraal »

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Re: Replace the corpsehiding mechanic
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2022, 11:01:50 AM »
A point that seems to be overlooked by all those who talk about "accepting consequences" here is that the problem with corpsehiding isnt jsut for the one being corpsehidden.

The most common issue that I have seen is that people are getting into the position where it would make IC sense to do the corpsehiding, but this mechanic is viewed by many as extremely toxic, personal and disgusting, leading them to not implement any consequences instead. Therefore, a mechanical solution would actually lead to more consequences in the end but with less grievance.




I think thatís the kind of cultural problem that needs a cultural solution, and tbh, sounds like bleed over from bad IC feelings that bleed out and are confused into bad OOC feelings when there shouldnít be.

Having bad things happen to a character isnít bad OOC. This is in a conflict that was opted into. The player is aware of the stakes involved and has decided following the RP is what they want.


You're correct. People enter into conflict too-willingly. If they're afraid of eating the consequences, they shouldn't engage. That doesn't just mean attacking people, it means opting into any conflict, even they're the victim. Even if it's an insult thrown, that upon being threatened to retract, was never retracted. That's how conflict happens and works. It's not a permanent death, and if and when it's ever become an issue out-of-character, I've turned it over to the DM Team/Community Council for resolution without a smidgeon of guilt on my conscience.

I'd encourage you all to do the same, instead of worrying about what people think of you, because you aren't your character, and neither should they be.

While your statement is correct, it ultimately means to walk away from any RP that could include conflict. And that is just plain sad.

Would it not be a lot better for an RP focused game to allow someone to embrace severe consequences for their character instead?

If you need to run from any chance of conflict instead of engaging in rp, that I take this as the greatest proof of a flawed system I could think of.

I mean. That really just... Depends on what you're defining RP as. Technically, you are engaging in RP by walking away from a scenario of conflict in which you do not think you can win. Conflict has to have a method of resolution, whether that's in killing someone, spreading foul rumours, getting their political allies to work against them, or otherwise. Unfortunately, most conflicts on PoTM exist in the vagabond wilds of inbetween civilized domains, in the Mist Camps, or otherwise. You are in the presence of the most putrid, vile, and violent people known to the Core, and chances are, their issues will sooner be resolved by cleaving your head from your shoulders, than suffering your presence.

There's a nicer, darker way to look at things, and should be expected in general. I've always had my characters look at anyone who isn't part of some actual society to be one step removed from lawless bandits; Because let's be honest. What are they?


Most of the "best" corpse hiding spots are also well known and I feel like the only real reason this was brought up is because theres a new, largely unknown domain, released that means new spots to punish people meddling into their evil deeds.

No, this has been brought up because of the exact opposite reasons: People do not want to corpsehide and I cant even remember the last conflict/PvP death with consequences lasting more then a few days.

People on all sides complain about a lack of consequences as well as the unwillingess to enforce consequences on other players when the mechanic feels as much ooc as it does.

Sure, people dont -want- to corpse hide, but its basically the only way evil people have to make sure someone doesn't immediately come back and strike them down for even a brief period of time.  If team evil had the same tools that team good did, you'd see less of it.  But they dont.

Speaking from experience, I've been confronted literally like 2 hours after somehting happened and the body wasnt even discovered yet.

It's probably not the best way to look at things, as Team Good v. Team Evil, as that's not really a realistic viewpoint. Technically, Team Evil is the Darklords, and in their domains, their corrupt law is the evil law. The Barovians are Team Evil, you're just a different Evil; You're your own Evil, competing in the realms of practical demigods of darkness. Team Good, in Ravenloft, has almost nothing at all, and doesn't even have a guard faction.

Evendur

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Re: Replace the corpsehiding mechanic
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2022, 11:10:51 AM »
Sure, people dont -want- to corpse hide, but its basically the only way evil people have to make sure someone doesn't immediately come back and strike them down for even a brief period of time. 

And if we had a mechanic that effectively implements the same consequences but without it feeling like ooc punishment, wouldn't that be better?

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Re: Replace the corpsehiding mechanic
« Reply #41 on: November 29, 2022, 11:14:31 AM »
Team good has vaulting (perma death essentially given how extremely rare a vault raid will be run considering it takes 2 DMs that are willing) jailing  and corpse hiding as consequences for evil people.

'Team good' doesn't have vaulting, the guards have vaulting. Evil people aren't the only ones who get vaulted. Likewise with jailing. I'd say most jailing is due to simple lawbreaks than actual evil.

myrddraal

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Re: Replace the corpsehiding mechanic
« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2022, 11:19:21 AM »
Team good has vaulting (perma death essentially given how extremely rare a vault raid will be run considering it takes 2 DMs that are willing) jailing  and corpse hiding as consequences for evil people.

'Team good' doesn't have vaulting, the guards have vaulting. Evil people aren't the only ones who get vaulted. Likewise with jailing. I'd say most jailing is due to simple lawbreaks than actual evil.

Team good and team guard is more or less the same as team lawful if people want to argue semantics because even if they will hunt vampires, werewolves, etc, they're never going to square up to Strahd.

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Re: Replace the corpsehiding mechanic
« Reply #43 on: November 29, 2022, 11:30:04 AM »
I'm just going to be lazy and dredge up my old response to a two year old corpsehiding thread.

...

If you have any inclination to believe that your corpse is in a spot that is violating the rules (or, indeed, the corpse of someone you know is in such a spot), then you should contact a DM. They have the capability to easily identify such things and will take steps immediately to resolve it. The results of their labor will most likely not be made known to you - but they will look, and unless we're accusing DMs of being a secret cabal bent against certain players, they will make sure things are above board.

...

As a more general address to the topic at hand, I won't pretend that corpse-hiding is a perfect solution. I also won't pretend that the negative experiences people have shared or implied are invalid. However, I do think that some people want a system where they always have the option to say "Time out! PvP is one of my red lights!" and frankly that's as damaging to a shared narrative as people getting punked and dumped for thin reasoning (whichyoucanreporttoaDM).

This issue is a part of the nature of being a large-scale shared narrative. Smaller communities can get away without systems like this because all of the players are reasonably able to be in touch with each other at all times, and those small communities typically have a very concrete shared mindset. I've seen enclaves on large, relatively consequence-free servers that emulate this as a necessity, while the rest of said server generally continues either in rather light storylines (because consequence is 100% at player whim) or what I call the "feedback loop of conflict", best described by Chumbawumba's 1997 hit Tubthumping.

"I get knocked down, but I get up again
You are never gonna keep me down"

For us, there need to be tools to provide an actual cessation/delay of conflict, to prevent the feedback loop. Some large communities do this via a "New Life Rule", whereby you can't simply stand up after getting knocked down and go to your local garda/newspaper/do-gooder and say "Here is my 20/20 description of the people who killed me and the dark secrets that I uncovered that I was killed for knowing" - some do it by having a system where after a certain number of deaths, you're just dead, incentivizing de-escalation. PotM's death system is how we handle it. And it could be better! As EO says, he's working on some changes.

...

Without some means to ensure de-escalation, or to cease/delay conflict, stories very quickly become slug-fests that don't make much sense and take on a tinge of absurdity. Characters trend towards open disregard of persons and groups that should warrant a degree of care in dealing with and death cheapens (and it's not exactly expensive right now). Risk creates good stories - it's why people like Game of Thrones, Martin manages to make his characters feel like they don't have plot-armor, even if it's not true.

...a brief tl;dr.

  • Report it to the DM if you suspect a body has been hidden in an illegal location, your's or others'
  • Risk creates good stories - look at Game of Thrones
  • Some system for de-escalation, cessation, or delay of conflict needs to exist to give stories meaning
  • Opting-in to conflict can be done in more ways than you might think
  • If you're being hunted, act like it
  • Be excellent to one another

Now for some hot modern takes for 2022.

I think that there is some level of echo-chamber style stoking of fears that has led to people turning PvP into a Prisoner's Dilemma, and then failing to actually solve the Prisoner's Dilemma in the way best for the group (one would hope to prioritize the group over the individual in collaborative storytelling, after all).

I reiterate that illegal corpsehiding does not happen nearly as much as is purported (or corpsehiding in general, even, though it does feel like people are quicker to jump to it nowadays). DMs check if you ask - for illegal corpsehiding to be an epidemic, you'd need an almost fully corrupted DM team, and that's a bit too much of a conspiracy theory for me to buy.

The most important function of corpsehiding, IMO, and the most valid time to use it, is information control. Any idea proposed to "fix" corpsehiding needs to not just completely stack the deck against espionage roleplay. That's my main concern with things like a "grievous wound" system - that stops direct mechanical confrontation, but not immediately running to the garda/the underworld and smothering whatever plotting you stumbled on in the cradle, despite getting caught by the plotters.

The second most important function is enforcing some level of gravity to actions. Though it is technically reportable on Arelith, people snidely/indirectly brushing off getting their skull repeatedly turned concave is one of the things I always chafed with there. A bit of a double-edged sword in some respects, but we roleplayers have a tendency to get precious with our characters, and we've all seen the unflappable, wise-cracking, pun-in-the-face-of-cosmic-horror type a few more times than is probably reasonable.

Vaulting is not done trivially. To my understanding it's more or less an at least "three strikes you're out" sort of deal, barring exceptional circumstances. How often are you being executed by the garda?

I do not think the Ba'al Verzi would fly under modern sentiment, even if they were active (or existed?). Forced closure at the hands of DMs kicks up dust, corpsehiding gets a thread every six months, vaulting is the boogeyman, there's no way a Verzi hit would generate anything less than a tantrum (even though, to my remembrance, the price of a failed Verzi hit is the closure of the assassin themselves).

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Re: Replace the corpsehiding mechanic
« Reply #44 on: November 29, 2022, 11:45:17 AM »
Revenant pretty much said it the best.

Personally I think corpse hiding is a terrible mechanic (I have done it and have been the victim of it) because I find the false sense of hope - "Oh, someone will find me, eventually" - to be more upsetting than a firm answer of "Well, this character is done now".

However, until there is a better system in place that forces the exact same level of consequences onto a conflict, it needs to stay.



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Re: Replace the corpsehiding mechanic
« Reply #45 on: November 29, 2022, 11:51:29 AM »
Team Garda/Gendarme is definitly not team good.

cooachlyfe

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Re: Replace the corpsehiding mechanic
« Reply #46 on: November 29, 2022, 11:56:52 AM »
Quote
I don't know how many levels it would cost me, but you are only proving the fact that players can grief each other even more then is already possible by actually downleveling eachother taking months of progress away from someone who had to spend a considerable amount of time for that. This isn't a solution, this is fuel.

I have little sympathy for high levels involved in conflict; with our rules in place, the character must have sought into the conflict. If it's a high level character, it's likely a veteran. Want less consequences for dying? Be lower level; shorter time to respawn, less XP loss. Or don't get involved in conflict, that also works.

It's this mentality why I rather do something like solo Perfidus than involve myself in roleplay that has any kind of risk.


As for corpsehiding, I think it's lame and a lazy way of solving your problems. Unfortunately bad guys have -literally- nothing else. I like the idea of mortal wounds so it's not a constant back and forth. Perhaps that is a route we should consider.

I also think vaulting is equally lame and lazy as well.

There isn't any fun in no longer playing the character you want to play for an extended amount of time, if not forever.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2022, 05:24:57 PM by cooachlyfe »

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Re: Replace the corpsehiding mechanic
« Reply #47 on: November 29, 2022, 11:58:13 AM »
I like Chadyos idea of introducing the rule to prevent corpses from being taken across the core via the vistani carts. Not taking out corpsehiding entirely, but restricting it a little. From what I have found recently is that the corpse hiding can make sense ICly (and sometimes should be hidden as best as possible), but looking for the corpse feels very OOC (even with attempts to make it entirely IC), especially when it makes sense that your character would ICly be looking for the corpse as much as possible.
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Re: Replace the corpsehiding mechanic
« Reply #48 on: November 29, 2022, 12:09:46 PM »
I like Chadyos idea of introducing the rule to prevent corpses from being taken across the core via the vistani carts. Not taking out corpsehiding entirely, but restricting it a little. From what I have found recently is that the corpse hiding can make sense ICly (and sometimes should be hidden as best as possible), but looking for the corpse feels very OOC (even with attempts to make it entirely IC), especially when it makes sense that your character would ICly be looking for the corpse as much as possible.

that is a good idea and would encourage people to use the mist ways instead!
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Re: Replace the corpsehiding mechanic
« Reply #49 on: November 29, 2022, 12:40:11 PM »
I feel like we're asking for something out of nothing here.

The crux is that no one wants to be denied being able to play for any reason. It's lame. They don't want to lose control of their character - But ultimately given our environment, what other choice or "punishment" do we have to enforce some power to players to enact things without interference from others?

Seemingly, anytime someone is corpse hidden, people get upset about it. That's to be expected, it's a harsh mechanic. But I also feel like people suspect that it's this permanent, never to be rectified situation at the same time. I recall some corpses that were hidden that no one thought they were going to be found, but in the end they had. And there is the option of coming back on your own after a time, even with an EXP penalty and such. Everyone gets scared thinking that I guess because no one wants to lose levels, sure (though I argue numbers aren't everything).


Is corpse hiding a perfect mechanic? Eh, no, probably not. Can we devise something better? Probably not either. If someone was told they can't play for a week because someone else deemed it so, well, that's the purpose. There's a huge build up to that. We have the opt-in system for a reason. The events leading up to it had to of made sense for it to occur in the first place. And what we have is that the murderer of the other essentially gets rewarded with the effort then with a "timeout" for the murdered. It's the only way to instill any purpose in a world or system like this. I mean just barring the fact that when the corpse is found, the person can be brought back seemingly completely unchanged or worse for wear. Their stats are the same, they might've lost a weapon or coin at worse. They can immediately get back into the fray. There's no real permanence there. So the only real lasting effect it can have is making someone wait and be uninvolved for a while. And I know there's been horror stories of people lost at sea for years on end. I also feel like those people could get back now of their own volition but probably just refuse to.


Death needs to be a consequence. If it's a consequence of player interaction then it needs to have some form of permanence to matter in the first place. Maybe shortened timers to return, or less numerical punishment for it or something. No one wants to be denied playing and impacting things yet it's the only sure proof method to making death matter. If you could just return and respawn instantly with no issue, what'd be the sense. If your corpse just laid there in the middle of the road until someone resurrected it, what'd be the point.
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