Author Topic: Magic in Barovia?  (Read 3079 times)

SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Magic in Barovia?
« Reply #75 on: December 10, 2022, 09:25:43 PM »
As far as the bigger picture goes, though, the outskirts still just exists in a weird void. Native Barovians have little reason to 'hang out' in the outskirts like all the adventurers do when looking for a dungeon group or to buy gear. They don't gather outside the sanctuary to hear Morninglord worshipers preach, nor would the tavern be of any concern to them. Guards are only really there because that's a trade road, it otherwise has no infrastructure that supports or attracts the common Barovian, certainly not the magic-fearing villagers, definitely not the few well to do merchants. A "native character" NCE would have to take place in the town itself, because native Barovians have been cowed into fear and apathy for longer than collective memory can account for. They are not a curious people interested in history or the future.

As far as enforcing the setting, guards and native PCs are not tasked with that. We all have that responsibility no matter what character we're playing, but while you can lead a horse to water you can't make it drink. Some characters are better positioned. The NPCs still outnumber PCs over 1,000:1, and anything the PCs do can be erased if they go offline for a few days. The devs have said they'll push more background NPCs into the foreground to counter this behaviour if they deem it necessary. I think that'd be a positive change. It's something that would benefit everyone, including those who insist they want to RP the very strangest of outlanders. They'd finally be noticed for their actions rather than be considered the bar that we all judge the outskirts circus by.
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hn3SoNaReS

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Re: Magic in Barovia?
« Reply #76 on: December 11, 2022, 09:55:35 AM »
As far as the bigger picture goes, though, the outskirts still just exists in a weird void. Native Barovians have little reason to 'hang out' in the outskirts like all the adventurers do when looking for a dungeon group or to buy gear. They don't gather outside the sanctuary to hear Morninglord worshipers preach, nor would the tavern be of any concern to them. Guards are only really there because that's a trade road, it otherwise has no infrastructure that supports or attracts the common Barovian, certainly not the magic-fearing villagers, definitely not the few well to do merchants. A "native character" NCE would have to take place in the town itself, because native Barovians have been cowed into fear and apathy for longer than collective memory can account for. They are not a curious people interested in history or the future.


Well, that's not strictly the case, there is no "void" at the entrance/exit points of any town or city, they should be a bustling hubs of activity and traffic.

ladylena

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Re: Magic in Barovia?
« Reply #77 on: December 11, 2022, 11:33:34 AM »
I think the best way to solve this would be for more of us to play natives that way we can help keep the feeling of the setting more true. Even if it's not a true NCE, perhaps we could use a group of players who are willing to delve into the native side of the server, like a large group. That way we can populate Vallaki with natives and make it harder on the outlanders. I know in the past with Erzsebet I once tried to feed this sort of idea that outlanders were a threat, all their open use of magic, and carrying weapons and walking through the city in armour that glows (etc) being more dangerous than Gundarakites... Maybe we could get a write up of the laws in the village of Barovia and the Wachter side of things that way we may have a bit more of awareness
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Maiyannah

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Re: Magic in Barovia?
« Reply #78 on: December 11, 2022, 02:20:37 PM »
As far as the bigger picture goes, though, the outskirts still just exists in a weird void. Native Barovians have little reason to 'hang out' in the outskirts like all the adventurers do when looking for a dungeon group or to buy gear. They don't gather outside the sanctuary to hear Morninglord worshipers preach, nor would the tavern be of any concern to them. Guards are only really there because that's a trade road, it otherwise has no infrastructure that supports or attracts the common Barovian, certainly not the magic-fearing villagers, definitely not the few well to do merchants. A "native character" NCE would have to take place in the town itself, because native Barovians have been cowed into fear and apathy for longer than collective memory can account for. They are not a curious people interested in history or the future.


Well, that's not strictly the case, there is no "void" at the entrance/exit points of any town or city, they should be a bustling hubs of activity and traffic.

Yes, I find the idea that someone would never sit at the foot of a city wall for all manner of reasons completely contradictory to pretty much every ounce of human experience we have, and doubly so for oppressived people, who tend to be gentrified outside of the walls.  The citystates of medieval times would often have entire little tent-cities outside of them.  Moreover, there's plenty of Barovian NPCs living outside the walls in farms, the beekeeper, the fishermen etc etc.  Are to surmise that someone playing a civillian, peasant NPC would not be any of those people?
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Madame Trousers Son

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Re: Magic in Barovia?
« Reply #79 on: December 11, 2022, 02:26:45 PM »
Yes, I think it would be appropriate to add more NPC peasants to the Outskirts.
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Vissy

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Re: Magic in Barovia?
« Reply #80 on: December 11, 2022, 03:15:54 PM »
Vallaki is supposed to be a major trading city by Barovian standards, a very important hub for trade. Even horsemen NPCs in the vein of the cavalry Gendarmerie in Lucine, representing the trade and movement on the road, would look quite normal to me and enhance the experience.
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ladylena

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Re: Magic in Barovia?
« Reply #81 on: December 11, 2022, 05:33:05 PM »
Vallaki is supposed to be a major trading city by Barovian standards, a very important hub for trade. Even horsemen NPCs in the vein of the cavalry Gendarmerie in Lucine, representing the trade and movement on the road, would look quite normal to me and enhance the experience.

Actually that would be really cool to see! Some random npcs from borca, dementlieu, or where ever in the market district or something would be really cool.
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dutchy

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Re: Magic in Barovia?
« Reply #82 on: December 12, 2022, 04:30:44 PM »
magic in barovia has trough the years has gotten more acceptable as has a few more issues.

what was once feeling (no not the lvl up line) uncommon is made common.

yes people go about with glowing items now, yes more magic is used as are potions and varnishes.

if you did that 10 ish or longer years ago while in view of a guard, you'd get an interaction you might not have liked the outcome off.

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Merry Munchkin

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Re: Magic in Barovia?
« Reply #83 on: December 12, 2022, 05:08:20 PM »
I like the idea of random native NPCs roaming the road back and forth through the outskirts.  It would create a modest natural deterrent to PC behavior, since they would get more reputation hits by doing magic in eyeshot of the natives during daylight hours at least.


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SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Magic in Barovia?
« Reply #84 on: December 14, 2022, 01:01:21 PM »
As far as the bigger picture goes, though, the outskirts still just exists in a weird void. Native Barovians have little reason to 'hang out' in the outskirts like all the adventurers do when looking for a dungeon group or to buy gear. They don't gather outside the sanctuary to hear Morninglord worshipers preach, nor would the tavern be of any concern to them. Guards are only really there because that's a trade road, it otherwise has no infrastructure that supports or attracts the common Barovian, certainly not the magic-fearing villagers, definitely not the few well to do merchants. A "native character" NCE would have to take place in the town itself, because native Barovians have been cowed into fear and apathy for longer than collective memory can account for. They are not a curious people interested in history or the future.


Well, that's not strictly the case, there is no "void" at the entrance/exit points of any town or city, they should be a bustling hubs of activity and traffic.

Yes, I find the idea that someone would never sit at the foot of a city wall for all manner of reasons completely contradictory to pretty much every ounce of human experience we have, and doubly so for oppressived people, who tend to be gentrified outside of the walls.  The citystates of medieval times would often have entire little tent-cities outside of them.  Moreover, there's plenty of Barovian NPCs living outside the walls in farms, the beekeeper, the fishermen etc etc.  Are to surmise that someone playing a civillian, peasant NPC would not be any of those people?

I do suggest this, because it's true. The other gates have NPCs, but not this one. It is deserted. It is treated like a void by most people RPing there, not a slice of Barovia. I'm only reporting on the reality of the situation. There is no tent city there, there are no caravans moving through it. I would like seeing them added, but they just aren't there right now.

Yes, it should be a bustling hub of traffic and activity. But it isn't. PCs are an entirely temporary presence that represent 0.1% of the population and anything they do can be erased by the server being reset.
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Maffa

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Re: Magic in Barovia?
« Reply #85 on: December 14, 2022, 01:06:03 PM »
if it werent a huge load for the server id love having carts and donkeys and oot traic coming and going from the gates.

outlanders and players would have the visual representation of their value in the greater scheme of the city, and not the inflated egotistic view of being the owners of the outskirts (which is an already dubious title, but well)
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SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Magic in Barovia?
« Reply #86 on: December 14, 2022, 01:17:54 PM »
It would look fantastic really. It would set the outskirts up for much better immersion instead of being sort of a blank slate.

The environmental storytelling going on with it right now tells us that it isn't a hub of NPC activity like I previously explained. There are no NPC patrons of the tavern, we see no caravans, we see no peasants begging or peddling junk, the sanctuary is abandoned. There's just Radu and a couple gate guards who can't even see the sanctuary itself, but if you head in through the gates, that all changes, you have a full sanctuary, there are peasants and beggars, there are oxen on the side of the road, the taverns have people in them.

It projects a very clear image of the outskirts being a place anyone can do whatever they want because there's no one to see it except other players. Only the devs can change that.
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GiganticHowlslime

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Re: Magic in Barovia?
« Reply #87 on: December 15, 2022, 08:00:18 AM »
It's fatigue, Arthiel.

Many folks would love to have a setting enforced as strictly as you're envisioning, but that requires a majority to want that, and to be able to enforce that. Neither of these conditions are true.

The path of least resistance is to do whatever you feel like regardless of if it's damaging to the setting. Therefore people standing outside that path are going to be discounted and shunned and treated as old men yelling at clouds. And being that pariah is tiring and isolating.

The environment will reflect what the average player wants without external influence (ie, DMs and staff actively punishing setting-breaching behaviour). And in the outskirts especially, the number of people who want to see the kind of environment the server advertises is simply outnumbered by the people who are ambivalent about it, and want to either do their own thing, or outright mock it, or consider themselves an exception.

The outskirts isn't going to become a high-RP area without DMs being willing to tell people how to RP - which I believe they don't want to do, understandably, as it's a task fraught with long, tiring conversations for them, and handling endless complaints.

The Outskirts exists as a place you constantly work to not be in. Find events that aren't there, and attend. Join factions that do stuff elsewhere. Create reasons for groups of likeminded people to leave that area. It's where your immersion, and the enchantment of the server goes to die.

Once you leave the sightline of the crowds of high level casters (who really should know better), the night actually becomes pretty scary again.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2022, 06:43:34 AM by GiganticHowlslime »
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