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Author Topic: Upcoming New System - Persistent Dynamic Noticeboards  (Read 2931 times)

Day Old Bread

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Re: Upcoming New System - Persistent Dynamic Noticeboards
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2022, 09:33:42 PM »
Maybe just like... ignore the "law"

I mean it's kind of hard to ignore the law when they know who you are because you're signing notices. :P

The issue right now is that it's more an OOC question and disagreement than an IC one. We've been putting notices on the floor to represent them being pinned up for years, now we're adapting to this new concept. On the one hand I see the point that having this new notice board system is kinda undermined if people can just continue to post papers underneath it, on the other, there should probably be a reasonable workaround to the fact that you can't post more than one notice.

Either way, this being an OOC issue, I think it's on us to wait for a DM/Dev ruling on the question.

100% agree. Probably should redact any laws ICly regarding the posting of notices in such a way until after the Dev's have opened up the noticeboard systems fully or (hopefully not) turn them off because of server instability.

PrimetheGrime

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Re: Upcoming New System - Persistent Dynamic Noticeboards
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2022, 09:34:07 PM »
I don't see a reason to add a law unto the placement of notices, especially when the team is still ironing out the details/coding of the noticeboards. It's being overly anal about procedure and I think our guard faction players are mature enough to see this shouldnt be as much an IC issue as an OOC one.

MAB77

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Re: Upcoming New System - Persistent Dynamic Noticeboards
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2022, 06:14:07 AM »
Watch your language please.

In any case, the garda policing how notices are left in the outskirt is a purely in-game issue. They don't need to put anything in writing to enforce it.
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PrimetheGrime

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Re: Upcoming New System - Persistent Dynamic Noticeboards
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2022, 07:12:08 AM »
Watch your language please.

In any case, the garda policing how notices are left in the outskirt is a purely in-game issue. They don't need to put anything in writing to enforce it.

Not sure what was language worthy there but moving on-

Enforcing this ic is a fools gambit. You're effectively just being difficult for the sake of difficulty. Clearly people have the intent to post multiple notices and might not have a friend nearby to post it for them *or* it could be pinned or attached to a tree, wall etc. Being over analytical about this is just going to irritate players more than characters as shown by the testimony in the thread.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2022, 07:16:41 AM by PrimetheGrime »

Swan

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Re: Upcoming New System - Persistent Dynamic Noticeboards
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2022, 07:14:34 AM »
Agreed with Prime. Not everything needs to be made arduous for absolutely no reason. This is kind of ridiculous.

BraveSirRobin

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Re: Upcoming New System - Persistent Dynamic Noticeboards
« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2022, 08:43:37 AM »
To be fair, I've always found the idea that someone can post a handful of papers and get the broadcasting power of every waking person on the forums seeing their notice -- Legal, or illegal, to be a disproportionately powerful tool for creating drama in roleplay. If I could have my way, I would have all IC communications kept strictly IC through either the constant placement of actual notices, or through noticeboard systems and to no longer permit such notices to be placed on the forums.

If regulating posting these notices through the boards puts a strain on the ability for someone to use a tool as powerful as a universal public noticeboard system that can directly influence public perception for the low-risk effort of dropping a notice anonymously in the corner of the Ouvrier, or somesuch. The world needs to be constrained a bit from using Mistbook to either slander, publish illegal papers, or -- You know, whatever controversial documentation goes up there, because even if it is taken down, the post does remain long thereafter and it isn't uncommon for someone to have roleplayed as having seen said notice, even after being torn down, because it at one point existed; Nor is there a way to police it.

So if this whole thing is in a step in that direction? I'm all for it. Port-a-Lucine Mean Girls gossip rags and other political commentary issued without a publisher and reaching a broad audience beyond whoever comes across a pamphlet has lead to a lot of silly roleplay in the past, when it should be a more uphill battle for unpublished, unsupported, and unregulated pamphleteers to distribute their documents to a broader audience.

FinalHeaven

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Re: Upcoming New System - Persistent Dynamic Noticeboards
« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2022, 09:40:52 AM »
Watch your language please.

In any case, the garda policing how notices are left in the outskirt is a purely in-game issue. They don't need to put anything in writing to enforce it.

It is obviously not an in-game issue because it never was one prior to the addition of the Notice Board system.  People were perfectly content to roleplay the understanding that pieces of paper dropped on the ground were actually nailed to a tree or a nearby sign, so trying to jail people for littering now when it is well known that the system only allows for 1 notice to be posted currently is nothing more than an orchestrated 'gotcha' moment.  It's an antagonistic moment that lacks any sort of narrative quality, although I suppose it'll be pretty funny when someone inevitably gets PvP'd over trying to enforce it.

It's a shame, because this is a fantastic system.  But if this is how we're going to be using it I suppose when I need to I'll just go back to posting multiple notices through the forums or reaching out to people on Discord.



MAB77

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Re: Upcoming New System - Persistent Dynamic Noticeboards
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2022, 11:24:17 PM »
You guys like drama where there is none.

It's not the Dev's role to tell the garda what to do or not do. We are content to let them handle paper notices as they see fit.

The current restrictions on the noticeboard system is a deliberate choice from the dev team UNTIL were done fully assessing/correcting the new system and its impacts on the server. This may take a few months to complete. Until then, shorten your notices and/or get help from other players to post more.
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MAB

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Abear

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Re: Upcoming New System - Persistent Dynamic Noticeboards
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2022, 11:29:44 PM »
hey you guys can keep using the tree for paper notices since the vallaki noticeboard is annoyingly out of the way

i wont bother ya about it


edit: porties talk to the gendarme
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Day Old Bread

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Re: Upcoming New System - Persistent Dynamic Noticeboards
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2022, 11:31:58 PM »
hey you guys can keep using the tree for paper notices since the vallaki noticeboard is annoyingly out of the way

i wont bother ya about it


edit: porties talk to the gendarme

If my characters weren't all lawful, I'd run out there and start plastering the walls with leaflets and flyers. And I'd run around while I was doing it! ANARCHY!

Myrza

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Re: Upcoming New System - Persistent Dynamic Noticeboards
« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2022, 05:29:46 AM »
hey you guys can keep using the tree for paper notices since the vallaki noticeboard is annoyingly out of the way

i wont bother ya about it


edit: porties talk to the gendarme

+1, also if there is an upcoming important event we might even let you guys use the special garda boards ;)

BraveSirRobin

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Re: Upcoming New System - Persistent Dynamic Noticeboards
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2022, 02:17:04 PM »
It sounds like someone's being a dork in-character, and the best way to resolve it is to look at them with the same incredulity that this subject is being pursued through on the forums. After-all, annoying abuses of power in-character can be rebuked politically, violently, or simply by calling their bluff and letting a DM NPC Lieutenant look over a logbook entry and castigate them for wasting resources.

Madame Trousers Son

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Re: Upcoming New System - Persistent Dynamic Noticeboards
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2022, 05:42:37 PM »
Having thought about it for a moment, here's my PoV. As the highest ranking active Gendarme I'm going to adopt it as my policy unless directed otherwise by the DM/Dev team; and complaints about other PC Gendarmes will usually not escalate to a DM straight away, they'll come to me first. :P

I think it's valid to say that not making a good faith attempt to interact with the new noticeboards is something that should be discouraged. I think it's valid for Gendarmes to be analytic IC about how people behave in the Publique; after all the public display of tolerance in Dementlieu only comes for those who make an effort to live up to certain social norms. It's certainly reasonable for PC Gendarmes to exercise their power to limit littering or fly-posting.

Equally on the other hand, I think it's valid to point to the fact that people can only post one notice as a limitation in the current system, and there should be work arounds.

So if I see that someone has put a paper on the ground near the noticeboard because they already have a post up there, that's OK, that's a work around.

If however someone is putting papers on the ground at or near a noticeboard when they don't have a post up already, then I think it's reasonable for Gendarmes to treat that IC as littering or fly-posting, because there hasn't been an OOC good faith attempt to interact with the system.
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Grendlykins, Simp of Azalin Rex

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Re: Upcoming New System - Persistent Dynamic Noticeboards
« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2022, 06:49:42 PM »
So if I see that someone has put a paper on the ground near the noticeboard because they already have a post up there, that's OK, that's a work around.

If however someone is putting papers on the ground at or near a noticeboard when they don't have a post up already, then I think it's reasonable for Gendarmes to treat that IC as littering or fly-posting, because there hasn't been an OOC good faith attempt to interact with the system.

I'll take that as the middle-ground any day of the week. This way it also starts training people to adapt to the new system with some gentle coercion. Implementing new systems have a lot of teething issues, especially when the human factor is involved. It's already difficult to force people to adopt new ways of doing things; even if they're objectively to the benefit of everyone. At the same time, systems are imperfect as they are human creations and the process to refine and improve is an endless one. The unenviable task of getting the server's population to interact with a new system and continue to do so as they're faced with barriers to overcome is a difficult one.

Forcing absolute adoption when the system isn't necessarily ready for it will inevitably lead to users being soured on their interactions with it, or tangential results thereof. Likewise, if there's no incentive to shift over, people will stick with what they know and what they've used for ages.

zDark Shadowz

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Re: Upcoming New System - Persistent Dynamic Noticeboards
« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2022, 07:43:27 PM »
Excess notes on the ground just means other uninvested people can edit them freely before putting them up on the board while tidying up the ground. Fun times. Get your quills ready.

FinalHeaven

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Re: Upcoming New System - Persistent Dynamic Noticeboards
« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2022, 08:22:51 PM »
Having thought about it for a moment, here's my PoV. As the highest ranking active Gendarme I'm going to adopt it as my policy unless directed otherwise by the DM/Dev team; and complaints about other PC Gendarmes will usually not escalate to a DM straight away, they'll come to me first. :P

I think it's valid to say that not making a good faith attempt to interact with the new noticeboards is something that should be discouraged. I think it's valid for Gendarmes to be analytic IC about how people behave in the Publique; after all the public display of tolerance in Dementlieu only comes for those who make an effort to live up to certain social norms. It's certainly reasonable for PC Gendarmes to exercise their power to limit littering or fly-posting.

Equally on the other hand, I think it's valid to point to the fact that people can only post one notice as a limitation in the current system, and there should be work arounds.

So if I see that someone has put a paper on the ground near the noticeboard because they already have a post up there, that's OK, that's a work around.

If however someone is putting papers on the ground at or near a noticeboard when they don't have a post up already, then I think it's reasonable for Gendarmes to treat that IC as littering or fly-posting, because there hasn't been an OOC good faith attempt to interact with the system.
Thank you for being reasonable.  This is a perfectly good way to go about it.



Cody

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Re: Upcoming New System - Persistent Dynamic Noticeboards
« Reply #41 on: December 09, 2022, 01:07:16 AM »
Has it been long enough that we might get the posting limit raised? I've already run into minor IC conflict with a police faction over having more than one advertisement in the old style, lying on the street in front of the board, because I'm unable to post a second (or third) to the board itself - even though by rights if my character can post one she can surely post the other.

A policing faction trying to call the old fashioned way of posting notices "littering" sounds incredibly anti-fun from an OOC point of view, almost edging on harassment.

Maybe this should be forwarded to the community council as a complaint about the player's behavior. If this behavior continues I would suggest sending a Tell to the player in question if they're really going to try to start a point of conflict over it first though, see if they would compromise or stop. That's what I would do, and will do if it happens to me. I'm still going to post extra notices about stuff where ever I feel like in the game world.

Policing such a small minor thing is incredibly pointless. This should not be happening in the first place.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2022, 01:17:34 AM by Cody »

strangerinthealps

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Re: Upcoming New System - Persistent Dynamic Noticeboards
« Reply #42 on: December 09, 2022, 10:55:03 AM »
Time to break out the paint...


EO

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Re: Upcoming New System - Persistent Dynamic Noticeboards
« Reply #43 on: December 20, 2022, 04:36:43 PM »
Couple of upcoming changes for the noticeboard system:

-The limit of notes will be raised to 60 (from 30 right now).
-PCs will be able to post up to 3 notices per board.
-Guards/Gendarmes will be able to get paper from NPCs (Nadia and Serghei in Vallaki, the Gendarmerie clerk in Port-à-Lucine)

Day Old Bread

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Re: Upcoming New System - Persistent Dynamic Noticeboards
« Reply #44 on: December 20, 2022, 04:40:50 PM »
-Guards/Gendarmes will be able to get paper from NPCs (Nadia and Serghei in Vallaki, the Gendarmerie clerk in Port-à-Lucine)
LOVE IT!

yinyang

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Re: Upcoming New System - Persistent Dynamic Noticeboards
« Reply #45 on: December 20, 2022, 04:54:18 PM »
Couple of upcoming changes for the noticeboard system:

-The limit of notes will be raised to 60 (from 30 right now).
-PCs will be able to post up to 3 notices per board.
-Guards/Gendarmes will be able to get paper from NPCs (Nadia and Serghei in Vallaki, the Gendarmerie clerk in Port-à-Lucine)

HECK YES WHOO
✯ THE VALLAKI REVIEW ✯

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FinalHeaven

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Re: Upcoming New System - Persistent Dynamic Noticeboards
« Reply #46 on: December 20, 2022, 05:30:17 PM »
Couple of upcoming changes for the noticeboard system:

-The limit of notes will be raised to 60 (from 30 right now).
-PCs will be able to post up to 3 notices per board.
-Guards/Gendarmes will be able to get paper from NPCs (Nadia and Serghei in Vallaki, the Gendarmerie clerk in Port-à-Lucine)
This is perfect and will quickly alleviate the above issues.



EO

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Re: Upcoming New System - Persistent Dynamic Noticeboards
« Reply #47 on: January 06, 2023, 08:07:07 PM »
Before we expand to other locations, is there anything you would want to see changed/fixed with the current boards?

FinalHeaven

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Re: Upcoming New System - Persistent Dynamic Noticeboards
« Reply #48 on: January 06, 2023, 08:18:16 PM »
Before we expand to other locations, is there anything you would want to see changed/fixed with the current boards?

I think that they are working perfectly and the increase of allowed notices is fantastic.  If there are concerns about increasing it again regarding performance, that's understandable.  I can't think of anything other then that, though.

I suppose one thing to consider would be people replying back and forth at one another, it'd be a shame if that pushed the 60 Notice limit, but I suppose you'd have to have quite a few people doing it before it mattered.



Madame Trousers Son

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Re: Upcoming New System - Persistent Dynamic Noticeboards
« Reply #49 on: January 06, 2023, 08:34:03 PM »
I think other locations would probably need longer than a week turnover. E.g. the village of Barovia, I'd probably leave them up for at least 2 weeks if not even more.
"The Machinery of Justice will not serve you here – it is slow and cold, and it is theirs."

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