Author Topic: Markovia Feedback Thread  (Read 4024 times)

EO

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Re: Markovia Feedback Thread
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2022, 11:42:12 AM »
As of next update:
- resized secret door triggers in Cellar and Flooded section
- tralak description should not be triggered by NPCs anymore
- reduced Broken One AC across the board
- improved machete effectiveness + even more effective for rangers/druids

These changes are in.

Maffa

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Re: Markovia Feedback Thread
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2022, 08:20:14 AM »
It's impossible to sneak your way back to the vistani.
In the norther region - ravine, past the midway camp, if you try to hack the overgrow down there is a spontaneous spawn of broken ones.

It's quite an overkill IMO


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Cody

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Re: Markovia Feedback Thread
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2022, 01:11:01 AM »
Maybe Crypt Raiders should have a bonus effectiveness with Machetes too :^)

Also. After seeing the neat things Search is bringing up in the Flooded and Cellar areas, I suggest that there should be a lore check on hidden searchables so you could be rewarded with xp for deciphering them.

Day Old Bread

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Re: Markovia Feedback Thread
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2022, 10:58:55 AM »
Maybe Crypt Raiders should have a bonus effectiveness with Machetes too :^)

+1

noah25

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Re: Markovia Feedback Thread
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2022, 11:45:48 PM »
I love it personally. The same mechanics that keep you from sneaking it prevents someone from running invis through 12 maps. You have to actually encounter the area and its very unnerving. I would be very against changing it.

inkcorvid

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Re: Markovia Feedback Thread
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2022, 02:57:11 AM »
One of my fave things about Markovia is that it's uniquely non-sneakable (the opposite of Raduta, or the Well, or Har'akir, that are very ninja-friendly). It's raw, gritty survival in a raw, gritty jungle, that constantly forces you to get your hands dirty or else hit-and-run lure the monsters out of sight while you work. You will end up wrestling angry man-pigs in the mud. You can't James Bond your way through the place in an immaculately tailored suit.
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Maffa

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Re: Markovia Feedback Thread
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2022, 03:30:16 AM »
beguilers cant go to markovia.

or come back alone, as a matter of fact.


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inkcorvid

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Re: Markovia Feedback Thread
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2022, 04:16:50 AM »
Beguilers (and rogues and bards and rangers) can absolutely go to Markovia, they just can't solo Markovia. They're great in a group, as buffers and locksmiths.

Markovia is a domain that resists that kind of risk-free solo play, though I guess a wizard could just scorched earth their way through.
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Maffa

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Re: Markovia Feedback Thread
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2022, 05:09:06 AM »
No no. wait. I dont want to "solo" MARKOOOOOVIA


I just want to go home.

That it.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2022, 05:11:21 AM by Maffa »


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inkcorvid

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Re: Markovia Feedback Thread
« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2022, 05:47:23 AM »
Indeed, you can't traverse the environment alone at all. That's basically what ninjalooting is, on the scale of a dungeon: you traverse the environment to the loot, and then you traverse the environment out again, loot in hand. In Har'akir, a Beguiler (or any other stealth class) can be an invisible tourist. You can go virtually anywhere in safety and comfort. You can always escape. You can always stand apart from the environment you're in. There's always a "backstage" you can disappear into. Beguiler is the undisputed queen of this playstyle, because they can command both stealth and stealthy magic. They can even disappear into the near ethereal. It feels like this is the life Beguiler is owed: access all areas. They should be able to travel the length and breadth of the whole server, unmolested. They should always have a trick.

But in Markovia, traversal is always a battle, and there are no exceptions. You are forced by the design of the areas to confront the hostility of the environment. There is no backstage. There is no hiding from it. There is no escape. There is only the jungle, with its tangling vines and twisting thorns, catching against your clothing, dragging you down into the muck. You can hack and slash your way through it; you can burn your way through it; but you can't creep your way through it. And even once you are through it, you can't tame it. You can't leave safe zones in your wake. You can never, ever "clear" it. The jungle will just come surging back in, like water into a parted sea. You're drowning in it.

And to my mind, that makes Markovia unique, from a design standpoint.
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Maffa

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Re: Markovia Feedback Thread
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2022, 05:56:46 AM »
But Markovia is a place, not a dungeon.

There is no other place in the server which prevents you go explore it by your own at your heart's content. There arent even many rewards in doing so, unless you have ways to mine while being hidden. 

I will point out this is strange, and not in line with decision taken for the rest of the server.

Moreover, that choke point is designed so that you cannot do anything to work around it. The mob spawn in existence as soon as you start bashing the vines. If they were there hidden you might try to dominate charm pull push whatever... it feels to me as a gamey solution that twist your arm.

Besides thats only an impediment to anyone that hasnt enough martial prowess to face the mobs, which... leaves many many people out.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2022, 06:17:15 AM by Maffa »


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Re: Markovia Feedback Thread
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2022, 06:29:00 AM »
While different than the rest of the server which allows most places to be run around with simple invisibility, I hardly think that's a bad thing. It reinforces the core server principle of group play and integrates its dungeons even better in the wider domain. Old design choices and limitations shouldn't be used to stifle new ideas and I for one am here for it.

Favee

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Re: Markovia Feedback Thread
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2022, 06:45:14 AM »
We should infact have many more things that are "Different from the rest of the server."  I'm very glad Markovia feels like a dense jungle full of terror both in game mechanics and design.  Preparing for each domains unique challenges is part of what makes Ravenloft a fun setting.
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DM Erebus

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Re: Markovia Feedback Thread
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2022, 07:17:59 AM »
Jhurgen's camp was a late addition, after the ravine was built.

I think it would be appropriate to make going between Jhurgen's and the Vistani camps easier, so I'll do that.

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Re: Markovia Feedback Thread
« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2022, 08:24:52 AM »
Playing around on a level 20 Wizard: The tiger beastfolk seem to hit surprisingly hard. I found them to be (ironically enough) glass cannons in that they can inflict a level of hurt completely disproportionate to how tough they are. I suspect this is intentional design but think this may be a little too efficient and may cause their true challenge level to be greater than their CR, resulting in poor XP and unsatisfied players. This is just my gut instinct based on watching the combat log with no idea of the backstage numbers, though.
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Re: Markovia Feedback Thread
« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2022, 02:02:46 PM »
For those of us who need to log out in central Markovia at times, it would be convenient to have a transition point somewhere that can get you to the other side of the Ravine instead of needing to cut through 6-8 layers of shrubs alone for when you log back in.

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Re: Markovia Feedback Thread
« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2022, 02:21:40 PM »
For those of us who need to log out in central Markovia at times, it would be convenient to have a transition point somewhere that can get you to the other side of the Ravine instead of needing to cut through 6-8 layers of shrubs alone for when you log back in.

i refer the right honourable gentleman to the answer previously given


I think it would be appropriate to make going between Jhurgen's and the Vistani camps easier, so I'll do that.

DM Erebus

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Re: Markovia Feedback Thread
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2022, 02:39:19 PM »
Playing around on a level 20 Wizard: The tiger beastfolk seem to hit surprisingly hard. I found them to be (ironically enough) glass cannons in that they can inflict a level of hurt completely disproportionate to how tough they are. I suspect this is intentional design but think this may be a little too efficient and may cause their true challenge level to be greater than their CR, resulting in poor XP and unsatisfied players. This is just my gut instinct based on watching the combat log with no idea of the backstage numbers, though.

Tigers are the highest non-boss variant, so they will have the highest stats.
All beastfolk pull from their own special treasury for weapons and armor, though only some models support weapon appearances. Under the hood, they're all armed with something from a selection ranging from a basic club at the bottom, to a bastard sword equilivent to steel crafted with a weapon buff on it. I'm satisfied there's nothing hugely unfair there, though it would be unlucky if they all rolled high for their equipment.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2022, 03:15:12 PM by CosmicRay »

noah25

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Re: Markovia Feedback Thread
« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2022, 03:45:47 PM »
Again, personally I like it. Generally speaking, each of the beastfolk seem to have extraordinary strengths and glaring weaknesses in a category. It forces some interesting and well thought out tactics rather than just bulldozing on auto pilot.

Also regarding the sneaking discussion, there is nothing I would want in Markovia more than something with HIPS. Especially a HIPS and bow combo.

Glass Cannon

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Re: Markovia Feedback Thread
« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2022, 08:40:57 PM »
Tigers are the highest non-boss variant, so they will have the highest stats.
All beastfolk pull from their own special treasury for weapons and armor, though only some models support weapon appearances. Under the hood, they're all armed with something from a selection ranging from a basic club at the bottom, to a bastard sword equilivent to steel crafted with a weapon buff on it. I'm satisfied there's nothing hugely unfair there, though it would be unlucky if they all rolled high for their equipment.

I think it'd be interesting to stress-test the beastfolk village bit with level appropriate groups.
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Re: Markovia Feedback Thread
« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2022, 11:06:31 PM »
couple things I noted:

-AC doesn't really seem that high to me, was hitting with regularity on my slightly underlevelled bard
-the piranhas swim backwards
-the wereboar look cool
-barbarians should also get the machete bonus
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Re: Markovia Feedback Thread
« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2022, 11:33:41 PM »
With a lvl 15 cleric ~

-Overworld/night spawns seem good. Tigers seem right for the CR, wasn't getting xp for some of the felines with an under leveled party for some mobs
-Design is 10/10, everyone who worked on this is cool, in a perfect reality I would buy you your beverage of choice.
-I tried to "dungeon log" somewhere in the jungle, but found myself woefully back where I was - which I personally don't mind, but there were definitely enemies.

DM Erebus

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Re: Markovia Feedback Thread
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2022, 02:56:36 AM »
Maybe Crypt Raiders should have a bonus effectiveness with Machetes too :^)

Also. After seeing the neat things Search is bringing up in the Flooded and Cellar areas, I suggest that there should be a lore check on hidden searchables so you could be rewarded with xp for deciphering them.

There are some hidden lore placeables that give XP, as well as the nonhidden ones. They're about two per dungeon, which I think is about the right level, I don't want to oversaturate the clickables.

On machetes. Whilst I am sympathetic to Crypt Raiders getting the bonus, they're not an 'Explorer' PrC (though obviously you can play to that archetype)

I added support for the machete script to other similar barriers too (blightwood, cobwebs), so for the purposes of keeping it expandable, I think it's better crypt raiders are kept off the list. I might add Barbs though because they fall under the 'Nature' class group for other purposes in the module already.

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Re: Markovia Feedback Thread
« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2022, 07:28:54 AM »
Some of the new herbs seem to do nothing on their own, an d can’t be crafted. I’ve not seen a single other herb that just does nothing when placing 1 or multiple of them on the table. Is this intended? This goes for Lobster claw, bird of paradise and oleander from what i’ve checked at least
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MAB77

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Re: Markovia Feedback Thread
« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2022, 01:04:42 PM »
Most definitively a bug. I am investigating.

Addendum: the issue has been identified. Will be fixed asap.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2022, 01:26:24 PM by MAB77 »
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