Author Topic: A Barovian Revival: Growing a Domain  (Read 1322 times)

BraveSirRobin

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A Barovian Revival: Growing a Domain
« on: October 30, 2022, 09:07:41 PM »
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A Barovian Revival: Growing a Domain
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This is not my usual kind of post. There is some degree of confession for my feelings towards the current state of the server, but this post is intended to suggest the growth and development of new opportunities within the roleplay environment of the server's primary domain. Please read the entirety of this post before replying to it, and please try to remain on-topic with thoughtful responses.


Pt. I

Hi,

I'll start off with saying that I've played on this server for nearly a decade now. I've seen it through highs, lows, staff turnover, retcons, major events and minor events. I have watch and seen how the theme and tone of the server has changed over the last ten years, and how the rules have changed on it as well.

Simply put, I believe that the server's modern environment offers even less to a broader number of players, than it did to a fewer number of players a decade ago. There are fewer options, opportunities, and roleplay incentives than there used to be, although there are now more mechanical options to play with. I'll give you a brief bit of background. When I joined PoTM, the War of Copper Knives was in full swing. A grand story between feuding Lords in Barovia, players who were parts of both factions, the faires and the tension in the air. The conflict gave rose to stories, purposes, and made Western Barovia feel alive in a way it's never felt since. During this same time, the first shots of the Dementlieuse Revolution were being fired off, and world-changing events in Dementlieu were transpiring with such grandeur that there are monuments left to day in the domain to mark these times, much as how Lord Ivan Watcher no longer reigns in the Wachter Estate. Simeun Radkov is a national hero, celebrated yearly. The Council of Brilliance was nearly killed off to a man, and re-elections were held, among which several players reigned candidates and one player character sits upon the Council of Brilliance, enslaved to Councilor d'Honaire, to this date.

Those times set such a high bar of hope, interest, adventure; That you could do anything, and contribute to the story of the server in a wonderful, brilliant way. To this date, the Drow in Vallaki are still disparaged for the massacre they performed, the Dwarven Statue before Dvergeheim stands still as a reminder of what player ambition could reward, but also punished for leading factions into conflict with Count Strahd von Zarovich XI. The Count was more active, the Dementlieuse Civil War began to kick off a few years later, and yet more world-changing drama took place.

In my days, there was a sense of the grand, and what-could-be. It inspired me as a player to play, and to play my best, and try to make characters who would involve themselves in the setting, and really set goals far above their heads, that whilst maybe they would never reach, I knew someone had. But, that wasn't all that made the world feel so alive. It was the fact that Barovia was, in those few years, more diverse in roleplay opportunity than it has ever been on the server since. The Dwarves were relevant, the Wachters were player-run, the Garda and Wachters held a tension in the air so palpable you could taste it.

Barovia is heavily underutilized. In past years, the rationale was to keep the playerbase from becoming too divided when at most, sixty may be online; But now, we have highs of well over one-hundred players. Over double what the server used to be capable of, but the same number of opportunities, the same number of supported factions, and the same extremely streamlined hub-flow system to corral players along a linear path of roleplay progression.

What if, Barovia could experience, a Renaissance? No; Not the setting. Not the technology, but a Renaissance of Roleplay?


Pt. II

I would genuinely ask that the Development Staff, the DM Team, and even the playerbase take the following suggestions into consideration from the perspective that Barovia is a very rich, and very large roleplay environment. It is a land, which the vast majority of, acts as a scenic theme park, and has little-to-no roleplay support whatsoever.

Indeed, Barovia is a land rife with roleplay opportunities. It is a land in which the system of governance is entirely decentralized; As contrasted to a Nationalized Guard like Dementlieu, warrants and bounties in Barovia do not carry over, from jurisdiction to jurisidiction. A man wanted in the Wachter Province will not be wanted in the Municipality of Vallaki. A man wanted in Krofburg likewise, would be wanted in neither; And same for the Village of Barovia.

The only problem is, there hasn't been an actual warrant issued for anyone out of Krofburg or Wachter Provinces since their related events died. The truth is; People have been asking to play Wachter Guard for nearly a decade now. The land is rarely used, the Estate has been neglected so far that there are parts of it that did not survive the transition into Enhanced Edition and have never been corrected since. The Krofburg Militia froze in purpose with the departure of DM Arawn, and the Silver plot came to a full halt, along with tensions between the Dwarves of Dvergeheim and the Krofburg Milita in fighting over rights to silver claims.

There is a breadth of potential laying with the breadbasket of Barovia. The server deserves more supported factions, and to invest in at least, an experiment in spreading out Western Barovia's roleplay from the epicenter of Vallaki.

I'd like to see numerous groups receive Faction Support, officially, just to create that diversity. Some examples would be as follows:

The Dwarves of Dvergeheim finally get a Guard force, or some other equivalent where they act on behalf of the King in matters pertaining to Dwarves. The Stoneguard, the Hearthguard, the Mountain's Men, who cares what they're called; Dvergeheim directly suffers from having a complete and total lack of support, despite the numerous Dwarven players who involve themselves there, and could greatly contribute to the tapestry of Barovia if they were given more official support.

The Elves of Degannwy -- I don't actually know much about them, so I won't comment too much there, but I'm sure there is ample room for a supported Glade faction inside of it for Druids, or Elves, or Rangers, or things that have literally no home anywhere else on the server, to fulfill their own agenda with the black quagmires of Barovia's corruption.

The Wachter Estate could finally open the Guard Force up to recruiting again, the Estate could be used to host more events, create some diversity in traffic and direction, as well as contribute to the occassional jurisdictional dispute. After-all, if you are wanted in Vallaki, your roleplay opportunities in Barovia are essentially completely, and totally over. That shouldn't be the case, and it attributes a higher risk to illegal activity than most are willing to take. Offering this diversity in roleplay areas in Western Barovia could contribute to a zone with more interfactional conflict, and thus, more story. Not to mention, the domain of the Wachters extends to well over half of the maps in Western Barovia, and yet there is no setting enforcement, and nothing of the kind there. It's essentially treated as lawless land where Witches roam, despite the Wachters being known for literally holding Witch Trials.

The Krofburg Militia. The Silver Plot died, but the Silver dream never did. The Krofburg Militia were an interesting faction, and unfortunately at the time received more in terms of DM Support than any Dwarven contribution to the same plot. That being said, it didn't make them a force for bad. To the contrary, I believe Krofburg could benefit from re-opening the silver mines with a permit system managed by the Militia, and a little more DM-love to the region. The conflict for the Dwarves and the Militia in this region is ripe for roleplay, especially with a little DM supervision, and it is one of very few regions at all in Barovia that will allow Caliban to roam their lower-regions, and can be a center for Caliban roleplay that isn't the Drain, even if it's heavily exploiting them.

The Bellegarde Trading Consortium. Naturally, a fit enemy for the Red Vardo Traders, some of the best interfactional warfare I've witnessed in the last ten years has been the result of Red vs. Blue trade wars. It has always created roleplay, but has never been given the official support it deserves, despite having all of the faculties it needs in Krofburg. To a lesser extent, there could be competition for the Red Vardo in Port-a-Lucine as well, through this faction.


I understand that DM Support is limited; That's why I want more tools and opportunities to be given to the players to forge conflict, to forge ambition, to create more diversity of roleplay and offer more alternatives for when one bridge has been burned among many. I genuinely believe that Barovia could offer a fresh new experience to veteran players and new players alike by expanding its horizons and offering more formal support, and forum support.

I, as a veteran player, have more-or-less expended my true interest in the existing sphere of roleplay options. I've seen the limits of what can be done, I've seen the heights, and the lows, and I've seen the same stories repeat a dozen times over. A dozen Vardo Captains, a dozen Sergeants in the Gendarmerie. I've never seen a Vallaki Garda since Yordan Hubchev achieve Sergeant, let alone Lieutenant, and I haven't seen a Dementlieuse Gendarmerie Lieutenant since Laurette Elise Trelliard. That was three, four years ago.

What is the general vibe of everyone else? Do you want to see Barovia expanded? I would love nothing more than to see more played upon the world stage of Barovia between factions maneuvering for influence. There could be more setting-appropraite factions suggested here, such as something for Berez, even. The Village of Barovia would likely remain an NPC wasteland, though. Strahd is spooky there.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2022, 10:09:34 PM by BraveSirRobin »

zDark Shadowz

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Re: A Barovian Revival: Growing a Domain
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2022, 09:16:33 PM »
Players just need to use the general request thread more for the alternative faction roleplay I think to set up events, until DMs have the time to pursue storylines inspired by those events.

BraveSirRobin

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Re: A Barovian Revival: Growing a Domain
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2022, 09:19:21 PM »
Players just need to use the general request thread more for the alternative faction roleplay I think to set up events, until DMs have the time to pursue storylines inspired by those events.

A big problem is that there isn't official support; So no official forums, or faculties, for many factions. You can play a Belleguard Consortium member, but have no access to a simple thread to use to organize things, and you require a DM to be involved to become a member, as opposed to letting players carry the brunt of said burden. Previously, this was allowed to happen in player-created forums, but in recent times, that has been almost entirely frowned upon, if not outright illegal if a DM isn't willing to directly supervise your forum. Running a faction without a proper forum is a massive drain on energy and resources for a player to do it, as opposed to adding a section on the PoTM forums where every DM can see it and keep things on the level.


In addition, there is no support whatsoever for playing a Krofburg Militia member, or a Wachter Guard anymore. The Krofburg Militia used to operate through a third-party forum hosted by DM Arawn. I'm not sure the Watchers ever had one.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2022, 09:21:19 PM by BraveSirRobin »

bloodless

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Re: A Barovian Revival: Growing a Domain
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2022, 09:51:28 PM »
I have been told, though have no way of verifying, that you can request to have hidden faction boards added to this forum for player-run, unofficial factions, alongside all the officially supported ones, and that this has happened before.

I do agree with the gist of the thread, though. More easily accessible RP opportunities = more good things happening. I've spoken to members of the team before regarding high ranking PCs (specifically in the case of agents of Strahd), and it seems that moving away from having them take up positions of (significant) authority over other players is a deliberate choice. That said you don't need to give people an I-win button to allow them some leeway to make things happen.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2022, 09:54:36 PM by bloodless »

BraveSirRobin

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Re: A Barovian Revival: Growing a Domain
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2022, 10:02:54 PM »
I have been told, though have no way of verifying, that you can request to have hidden faction boards added to this forum for player-run, unofficial factions, alongside all the officially supported ones, and that this has happened before.

I do agree with the gist of the thread, though. More easily accessible RP opportunities = more good things happening. I've spoken to members of the team before regarding high ranking PCs (specifically in the case of agents of Strahd), and it seems that moving away from having them take up positions of (significant) authority over other players is a deliberate choice. That said you don't need to give people an I-win button to allow them some leeway to make things happen.

Well; Strahd can remain a bugbear. I'm referring to lateral expansion of opportunities. Strahd has authority over every other Burgomaster, Boyar, and institution in Barovia in some form or another, even if they're in Rebellion; That Hand of God can be tastefully applied by the DM Team at their discretions. But adding additional opportunities to engage in different varieties of Barovian roleplay through these factions shouldn't violate that design decision, I don't think?

Calad

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Re: A Barovian Revival: Growing a Domain
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2022, 11:10:53 PM »
I know this opinion will raise voices but...

the only way to make Barovia immersive, and enjoyable, and more atmospheric again, in my honest opinion, is with RP opportunities yes but moreso when we all stop treating it as the starter zone.

Then I assume we'd get more people who play in Barovia because they enjoy the RP and thus put in more effort, similar to Port, and not people who just go through the place because it's where all the dungeons are at before they move on to Mist Camp. Less disruptiveness too, which'd stop driving away people who are genuinely interested in RPing here.

I would love to see Barovia expanded but at the moment we fail to get people to use even just Vallaki itself.
Long live the Count, Strahd von Zarovich XI!

PrimetheGrime

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Re: A Barovian Revival: Growing a Domain
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2022, 11:31:10 PM »
Spoiler: show

Simply put, I believe that the server's modern environment offers even less to a broader number of players, than it did to a fewer number of players a decade ago. There are fewer options, opportunities, and roleplay incentives than there used to be, although there are now more mechanical options to play with. I'll give you a brief bit of background. When I joined PoTM, the War of Copper Knives was in full swing. A grand story between feuding Lords in Barovia, players who were parts of both factions, the faires and the tension in the air. The conflict gave rose to stories, purposes, and made Western Barovia feel alive in a way it's never felt since. During this same time, the first shots of the Dementlieuse Revolution were being fired off, and world-changing events in Dementlieu were transpiring with such grandeur that there are monuments left to day in the domain to mark these times, much as how Lord Ivan Watcher no longer reigns in the Wachter Estate. Simeun Radkov is a national hero, celebrated yearly. The Council of Brilliance was nearly killed off to a man, and re-elections were held, among which several players reigned candidates and one player character sits upon the Council of Brilliance, enslaved to Councilor d'Honaire, to this date.

This gets brought up a lot and I feel the need to clarify. Whilst Wachter guard was neat, Wachter is not a city like Vallaki and would then fall under nobility instead. There are no guard options requested from Romulich afterall. The closest similarity would be Krezk. Whilst it would be neat to have Guard from them, We don't have Krezk currently implemented. Wachter was opened specifically for a DM event, much like Krofburg. Would I like to see them opened up at a later date? Sure in the case of Kburg, I personally don't think house guards in Barovia however is something that should be an official faction. Whilst there may not be as many permanent fixtures as the old days, I think it's unfair to say that Barovia doesn't change or have any impactful moments since the time of the copper knives. Speaking frankly, it's an insult to all of us who have made Barovia our chosen hub to roleplay within. Debateable perhaps but I would argue that Barovia in recent years has had some of the most significant plots on the server with great turnouts all round.


Spoiler: show
Quote
Those times set such a high bar of hope, interest, adventure; That you could do anything, and contribute to the story of the server in a wonderful, brilliant way. To this date, the Drow in Vallaki are still disparaged for the massacre they performed, the Dwarven Statue before Dvergeheim stands still as a reminder of what player ambition could reward, but also punished for leading factions into conflict with Count Strahd von Zarovich XI. The Count was more active, the Dementlieuse Civil War began to kick off a few years later, and yet more world-changing drama took place.

In my days, there was a sense of the grand, and what-could-be. It inspired me as a player to play, and to play my best, and try to make characters who would involve themselves in the setting, and really set goals far above their heads, that whilst maybe they would never reach, I knew someone had. But, that wasn't all that made the world feel so alive. It was the fact that Barovia was, in those few years, more diverse in roleplay opportunity than it has ever been on the server since. The Dwarves were relevant, the Wachters were player-run, the Garda and Wachters held a tension in the air so palpable you could taste it.

Barovia is heavily underutilized. In past years, the rationale was to keep the playerbase from becoming too divided when at most, sixty may be online; But now, we have highs of well over one-hundred players. Over double what the server used to be capable of, but the same number of opportunities, the same number of supported factions, and the same extremely streamlined hub-flow system to corral players along a linear path of roleplay progression.


There's something to be said about nostalgia and a need to take off the rose-tinted spec's from time to time. The past has been great, yeah, but the present too has had some magnificent stories, both in Dlew and Barovia. The sense of what could be and inspiration remain, if anything they should be higher than ever with all the changes that have been added for player benefit not limited to carpentry and rentals.


Spoiler: show
Quote
I would genuinely ask that the Development Staff, the DM Team, and even the playerbase take the following suggestions into consideration from the perspective that Barovia is a very rich, and very large roleplay environment. It is a land, which the vast majority of, acts as a scenic theme park, and has little-to-no roleplay support whatsoever.

From my perspective, this couldn't be further from the truth. New content is added almost daily to enrich player experience beyond that of a scenic theme park.

Spoiler: show
Quote
Indeed, Barovia is a land rife with roleplay opportunities. It is a land in which the system of governance is entirely decentralized; As contrasted to a Nationalized Guard like Dementlieu, warrants and bounties in Barovia do not carry over, from jurisdiction to jurisidiction. A man wanted in the Wachter Province will not be wanted in the Municipality of Vallaki. A man wanted in Krofburg likewise, would be wanted in neither; And same for the Village of Barovia.

The only problem is, there hasn't been an actual warrant issued for anyone out of Krofburg or Wachter Provinces since their related events died. The truth is; People have been asking to play Wachter Guard for nearly a decade now. The land is rarely used, the Estate has been neglected so far that there are parts of it that did not survive the transition into Enhanced Edition and have never been corrected since. The Krofburg Militia froze in purpose with the departure of DM Arawn, and the Silver plot came to a full halt, along with tensions between the Dwarves of Dvergeheim and the Krofburg Milita in fighting over rights to silver claims.

There is a breadth of potential laying with the breadbasket of Barovia. The server deserves more supported factions, and to invest in at least, an experiment in spreading out Western Barovia's roleplay from the epicenter of Vallaki.


I believe still the best method to show us, the dev team and the DM team both that you're interested in maintaining a faction is to put forth the effort in said areas and wait to see what comes of it. This has been how many player factions are noticed by DMs which leads to great moments on both sides. The same can be said with the Dwarves who inhabit dvergeheim. The team added areas for them to play around in as well as rentals to aid in that roleplay. Putting forward a group of interested and most importantly tenacious players into an area such as krofburg with clear intent is bound to have people take notice. However Developer time is as limited as DMs in many facets. We can't work on everything at once and we tend to work on the projects we ourselves wish to. Why do we do this? Primarily to prevent burnout and lack of interest. It can be an insideous killer in development to work on something you're not keen on and end up tapping out for one reason or another. It's good to keep this in mind as well.

Spoiler: show
Quote
I'd like to see numerous groups receive Faction Support, officially, just to create that diversity. Some examples would be as follows:

The Dwarves of Dvergeheim finally get a Guard force, or some other equivalent where they act on behalf of the King in matters pertaining to Dwarves. The Stoneguard, the Hearthguard, the Mountain's Men, who cares what they're called; Dvergeheim directly suffers from having a complete and total lack of support, despite the numerous Dwarven players who involve themselves there, and could greatly contribute to the tapestry of Barovia if they were given more official support.


A guard faction might be interesting, but interest must first be shown before any consideration to that kind of addition was even considered.

Spoiler: show
Quote
The Elves of Degannwy -- I don't actually know much about them, so I won't comment too much there, but I'm sure there is ample room for a supported Glade faction inside of it for Druids, or Elves, or Rangers, or things that have literally no home anywhere else on the server, to fulfill their own agenda with the black quagmires of Barovia's corruption.


The Elves actually have a semi-player faction known as the Guardians of Degannwy who operate to this extent. Degannwy is a small settlement compared to the likes of Dvergeheim or Vallaki, so a need for any law is limited as the Marquiss runs a tight ship, as those who have rp'd in degannwy have learnt.

Spoiler: show
Quote
The Wachter Estate could finally open the Guard Force up to recruiting again, the Estate could be used to host more events, create some diversity in traffic and direction, as well as contribute to the occassional jurisdictional dispute. After-all, if you are wanted in Vallaki, your roleplay opportunities in Barovia are essentially completely, and totally over. That shouldn't be the case, and it attributes a higher risk to illegal activity than most are willing to take. Offering this diversity in roleplay areas in Western Barovia could contribute to a zone with more interfactional conflict, and thus, more story. Not to mention, the domain of the Wachters extends to well over half of the maps in Western Barovia, and yet there is no setting enforcement, and nothing of the kind there. It's essentially treated as lawless land where Witches roam, despite the Wachters being known for literally holding Witch Trials.


Rather than Wachter, I would as I mentioned above prefer Krezk guard as that matches and contrasts nicely with Vallaki. However, it's not currently implemented so better left on the 'another day' pile.


Spoiler: show
Quote
The Krofburg Militia. The Silver Plot died, but the Silver dream never did. The Krofburg Militia were an interesting faction, and unfortunately at the time received more in terms of DM Support than any Dwarven contribution to the same plot. That being said, it didn't make them a force for bad. To the contrary, I believe Krofburg could benefit from re-opening the silver mines with a permit system managed by the Militia, and a little more DM-love to the region. The conflict for the Dwarves and the Militia in this region is ripe for roleplay, especially with a little DM supervision, and it is one of very few regions at all in Barovia that will allow Caliban to roam their lower-regions, and can be a center for Caliban roleplay that isn't the Drain, even if it's heavily exploiting them.


Though it was built for a dm plot, it would be neat to see it expanded upon, however as with the others I've mentioned it all comes down to the effort involved. Players need to show us they're willing (and in significant numbers) to put in the hours as it were operating in that way for those kind of changes to happen. Otherwise we end up with ghosttowns that have been worked on for nothing where that time could have been spent on other projects.

Spoiler: show
Quote
The Bellegarde Trading Consortium. Naturally, a fit enemy for the Red Vardo Traders, some of the best interfactional warfare I've witnessed in the last ten years has been the result of Red vs. Blue trade wars. It has always created roleplay, but has never been given the official support it deserves, despite having all of the faculties it needs in Krofburg. To a lesser extent, there could be competition for the Red Vardo in Port-a-Lucine as well, through this faction.[/color]


Would be neat to see. Not sure how well they'd go against the RVT but competition is healthy. Bellegarde does get support when interest has been shown as the players who have been involved in the bellegarde can attest.


Spoiler: show
Quote
I, as a veteran player, have more-or-less expended my true interest in the existing sphere of roleplay options. I've seen the limits of what can be done, I've seen the heights, and the lows, and I've seen the same stories repeat a dozen times over. A dozen Vardo Captains, a dozen Sergeants in the Gendarmerie. I've never seen a Vallaki Garda since Yordan Hubchev achieve Sergeant, let alone Lieutenant, and I haven't seen a Dementlieuse Gendarmerie Lieutenant since Laurette Elise Trelliard. That was three, four years ago.


I can't speak for Vallaki, but I know a certain stubby monk who made it to LT not that long ago. It's all about time investment and how the plot surrounding that investment goes.
There's this thought process that official factions somehow have reigns on DMs and can grab them when they need to. This is not the case, I assure you. We need to petition for the team as much as any player regardless of being an 'official' faction or not. Those in the MLs, Ezrites and RVT can attest to this i'm sure. The only difference between 'us' and player factions is we have permanent installments within the server as we are for lack of a better word, permanent factions that are attached to the framework of the domains we reside in.

TLDR, Interest in official factions is great, but time investment needs to be clear and shown before anything can be even remotely considered. The team have put forth many great tools for player and mpc alike to further enrich story without DM supervision and we try to offer as much of this as possible within fairness. We're a small team, and while many among my peers are supermen and women at what they do, they too have limits. If you want to push for something, take the first step and show the staff you're willing to see it through. That kind of tenacity, within reason, is often rewarded from my experience.

BraveSirRobin

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Re: A Barovian Revival: Growing a Domain
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2022, 12:18:29 AM »
Quote
This gets brought up a lot and I feel the need to clarify. Whilst Wachter guard was neat, Wachter is not a city like Vallaki and would then fall under nobility instead. There are no guard options requested from Romulich afterall. The closest similarity would be Krezk. Whilst it would be neat to have Guard from them, We don't have Krezk currently implemented. Wachter was opened specifically for a DM event, much like Krofburg. Would I like to see them opened up at a later date? Sure in the case of Kburg, I personally don't think house guards in Barovia however is something that should be an official faction. Whilst there may not be as many permanent fixtures as the old days, I think it's unfair to say that Barovia doesn't change or have any impactful moments since the time of the copper knives. Speaking frankly, it's an insult to all of us who have made Barovia our chosen hub to roleplay within. Debateable perhaps but I would argue that Barovia in recent years has had some of the most significant plots on the server with great turnouts all round.

I'm replying shorthand, because I'm on my phone now getting fuel; But comparing the Wachters to the Romulichs is a non-sequitor. The Wachters rule a significant portion of represented land in the module, and actively govern it via the same means Vallaki does. They may be villages and outposts, but still have laws, and homes. Vallaki as a city is ruled the same way, just centralized and with very limited areas of jurisdiction.

People have wanted to, for years, play as the Wachters, because that area of the server is valuable in resources for roleplay, but offer next-to-nothing in terms of setting immersion.

I also don't agree that the events that have transpired after the War of Copper Knives and Dementlieuse Revolution have had similar impact, and I'm not sure why you would take offense over it. The simple truth of it is, many things that have transpired exist in a microcosm of limited consequence. They didn't leave marks on the server for decades to come. They can't be appreciated, or witnessed by anyone but whom was present, whereas the effects of the War of Copper Knives and Revolution are directly able to be touched, witnessed, and interacted to this day. There's a difference to being part of history, and whacking miles that are irrelevant. Events that feign world-ending disaster can only have so much effect if they are always stopped, and never are the consequences suffered. They lose their value. What made these events special is that players got to be part of a grander, more epic drama that unfolded, and even make their name amidst it. There was nothing a player could do to change the course of the Revolution, or the War of Copper Knives. But they were parts to the machine of change, and change in a good way is so rare on this server. It becomes stale.

The goggles of nostalgia aren't rosy-tinted, I'm explaining what I liked. They were just better, in my opinion, because they were more real than end-world events existing in a microcosm or off-world events in Borca, Richemulot, or Darkon that exist only in that moment, rather than leaving a lasting impression on the server that actually exists. Implementing some more lateral faction diversity can only create more roleplay.

It's one thing to admit that you aren't personally interested in this, and that's fine; It's another time dismiss wholesale an opinion as lustful nostaglia. Most of what's been done since doesn't provide the same opportunities as those events did in the past, and they've held a lot of player support for wanting to do things with them for nearly a decade. So why not?

APorg

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Re: A Barovian Revival: Growing a Domain
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2022, 03:25:33 AM »
From the perspective of a server veteran who was here before you, I think your glasses are heavily rose-tinted.

If these events were so great, why haven't they continued in the same vein? Well, what's noticeable about all the big historical events you note is that they were wars. How frequently exactly can the DM team draw water from the well of overt military conflict in the server's history before it becomes cliché? This isn't Warhammer 40K, there isn't eternal war in Barovia or Dementlieu. Mostly peaceful oppression is the default, but people don't write history books about mostly peaceful oppression.

The current batch of DMs have to work with the story they were handed over by the old crew, and I can understand many of their reasons for choosing to paint the picture of what happens in other domains, off-camera. Sure, it's easier, but more importantly, those stories haven't been told; they can be original and authentic in adding a little colour to what happens in Borca, Darkon, wherever.

The past is therefore also a constraint. I don't think there is creative space for yet another Dementlieuse civil war, so the current DM team have been implementing more subtle conflict. A lot of what transpires there goes unseen, unrecorded, unsung, except by the players directly involved. This, incidentally, is what happens in 95 - 98% of story lines in PotM, now and ten years ago; the few that make it to the history books or even earn relatively tame mention in the IC Timeline wiki page are the minority. (In fact I'd rate us much better now at preserving server history than ten years ago.)

This all goes to the point of the server's OOC objective. The purpose of PotM is to be a table where DMs and players can come and tell Ravenloft stories in a persistent world. It's not to create a dynamic and living world where everything responds to player agency. Atmosphere, theme, cosmetics matter more than effects, because at the end of the day the stage needs to be clear for the next batch of people to come along and play on it. You can't demand the fullness of agency for the present batch of players without in some ways sacrificing the agency of future players (indeed, that's kind of a parallel to the issue that DMs have with re-treading big historical events). In other words: big IC changing events are a secondary objective, not PotM's primary objective. If you think that means it makes things too stale, that's too bad, but forcing dynamism for the sake of dynamism goes against the server's purpose, nevermind the DM and Dev resources such a policy would require.

So from the server's OOC objective comes the purpose of Guard factions, OOC. Their main intent is to have players play guards/gendarmes to help enforce the setting and alleviate some of the burden off the DM team when it comes to playing these actors. Sure, they can be used by some PCs as a foundation stone for driving faction conflict or commanding IC authority, but that's again a secondary feature, not the mission. In fact, guards are expected to rein in their agency in several aspects, and explicitly ordered so IC in some ways (e.g. Gendarmes not being allowed to leave Dementlieu even when off duty).

Putting this all together, then, I see a big disconnect between your desired outcome and your arguments. Asking for a Watcher or Dwarf guard faction so PC guard agency can lay the groundwork for the "War of Stone Axes" or whatever is misunderstanding the purpose of those guard factions. They shouldn't be brought in to drive conflict*: they should be brought in to help enforce the setting's authenticity.

Which is why Prime is telling you that you need a player base in those areas for this, really; there's no need beyond the DM team to enforce the setting where there isn't a strong, frequent player presence.

* (Okay, technically the Wachter faction did exist during the War of Copper Knives to drive conflict, but the fact that they were disbanded after the storyline was over illustrates the point: once the conflict was over there was no need for them anymore.)

P.S. Edit Note: my purpose here isn't to criticise the past DMs in anyway, by the way; I agree, those old stories were great. But rather I think your implicit criticism against the current approach is not only unfair but ignores many practical realities, and the desire to put the tools of agency into player hands has to be done for the right reasons.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2022, 03:33:08 AM by APorg »
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Re: A Barovian Revival: Growing a Domain
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2022, 04:17:07 AM »
Quote
People have wanted to, for years, play as the Wachters, because that area of the server is valuable in resources for roleplay, but offer next-to-nothing in terms of setting immersion.

I also don't agree that the events that have transpired after the War of Copper Knives and Dementlieuse Revolution have had similar impact, and I'm not sure why you would take offense over it. The simple truth of it is, many things that have transpired exist in a microcosm of limited consequence. They didn't leave marks on the server for decades to come. They can't be appreciated, or witnessed by anyone but whom was present, whereas the effects of the War of Copper Knives and Revolution are directly able to be touched, witnessed, and interacted to this day. There's a difference to being part of history, and whacking miles that are irrelevant. Events that feign world-ending disaster can only have so much effect if they are always stopped, and never are the consequences suffered. They lose their value. What made these events special is that players got to be part of a grander, more epic drama that unfolded, and even make their name amidst it. There was nothing a player could do to change the course of the Revolution, or the War of Copper Knives. But they were parts to the machine of change, and change in a good way is so rare on this server. It becomes stale.

The goggles of nostalgia aren't rosy-tinted, I'm explaining what I liked. They were just better, in my opinion, because they were more real than end-world events existing in a microcosm or off-world events in Borca, Richemulot, or Darkon that exist only in that moment, rather than leaving a lasting impression on the server that actually exists. Implementing some more lateral faction diversity can only create more roleplay.

It's one thing to admit that you aren't personally interested in this, and that's fine; It's another time dismiss wholesale an opinion as lustful nostaglia. Most of what's been done since doesn't provide the same opportunities as those events did in the past, and they've held a lot of player support for wanting to do things with them for nearly a decade. So why not?

I don't think it's unfair to point to the rommulich's as with the Wachters, they too are nobility, fortress or no. My stance is still attached to that of Krezk over Wachter because thematically that makes more sense to grant a guard faction to.

This first sentence to me highlights that you have not spent nearly enough time Barovia-side in the past 6-7 years. A great deal has happened over that time and a great deal many stories have been cemented into the framework of the world around us. Off the top of my head, mostly due to my own involvement within it is the War of Gundarak where remnants of that battle exist within both dialogue and environment if you know where to look (hint, it's to the west). There have been some limitations put in place I imagine from the DM team to prevent any disruption of players who might not wish to be involved in whatever arching story is appearing which may be why a good deal of the conflicts recently have been outside of Dementlieu. Another reason could be because it would require dev assistance to properly display lasting changes. I may not have the decade of experience within potm, but do give us some credit that I know what I'm talking about when it comes to server history. Perhaps you look so fondly at the copper knives, revolution etc because you were more involved within them. I know for a fact you've spent a great many years within Dementlieu rather than Barovia so no offense, but your vision is clouded in terms of what occurs in Barovia.

As my elder compadre above me has already mentioned, you most certainly are looking at these events with rose-tinted goggles. Whilst I never took part in the events of the copper knives or revolution, I have interviewed several veterans of the server that have, many of whom do not share the sparkling wonder that you do on all of the events. That is not to say that they were bad or even close to awful. I believe they were magnificent plots in their hayday, but getting bogged down in golden years stifles new eras of roleplay. I personally believe that the quality of rp within POTM has only increased over time and we've been blessed with a plethora of grand story tellers who we get to share the world with, many of whom are pillars of the community with their structure and methods of playing their characters with consequences. In short, give the new age a chance bud.

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Re: A Barovian Revival: Growing a Domain
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2022, 04:39:45 AM »
From the perspective of a server veteran who was here before you, I think your glasses are heavily rose-tinted.

If these events were so great, why haven't they continued in the same vein? Well, what's noticeable about all the big historical events you note is that they were wars. How frequently exactly can the DM team draw water from the well of overt military conflict in the server's history before it becomes cliché? This isn't Warhammer 40K, there isn't eternal war in Barovia or Dementlieu. Mostly peaceful oppression is the default, but people don't write history books about mostly peaceful oppression.

The current batch of DMs have to work with the story they were handed over by the old crew, and I can understand many of their reasons for choosing to paint the picture of what happens in other domains, off-camera. Sure, it's easier, but more importantly, those stories haven't been told; they can be original and authentic in adding a little colour to what happens in Borca, Darkon, wherever.

The past is therefore also a constraint. I don't think there is creative space for yet another Dementlieuse civil war, so the current DM team have been implementing more subtle conflict. A lot of what transpires there goes unseen, unrecorded, unsung, except by the players directly involved. This, incidentally, is what happens in 95 - 98% of story lines in PotM, now and ten years ago; the few that make it to the history books or even earn relatively tame mention in the IC Timeline wiki page are the minority. (In fact I'd rate us much better now at preserving server history than ten years ago.)

This all goes to the point of the server's OOC objective. The purpose of PotM is to be a table where DMs and players can come and tell Ravenloft stories in a persistent world. It's not to create a dynamic and living world where everything responds to player agency. Atmosphere, theme, cosmetics matter more than effects, because at the end of the day the stage needs to be clear for the next batch of people to come along and play on it. You can't demand the fullness of agency for the present batch of players without in some ways sacrificing the agency of future players (indeed, that's kind of a parallel to the issue that DMs have with re-treading big historical events). In other words: big IC changing events are a secondary objective, not PotM's primary objective. If you think that means it makes things too stale, that's too bad, but forcing dynamism for the sake of dynamism goes against the server's purpose, nevermind the DM and Dev resources such a policy would require.

So from the server's OOC objective comes the purpose of Guard factions, OOC. Their main intent is to have players play guards/gendarmes to help enforce the setting and alleviate some of the burden off the DM team when it comes to playing these actors. Sure, they can be used by some PCs as a foundation stone for driving faction conflict or commanding IC authority, but that's again a secondary feature, not the mission. In fact, guards are expected to rein in their agency in several aspects, and explicitly ordered so IC in some ways (e.g. Gendarmes not being allowed to leave Dementlieu even when off duty).

Putting this all together, then, I see a big disconnect between your desired outcome and your arguments. Asking for a Watcher or Dwarf guard faction so PC guard agency can lay the groundwork for the "War of Stone Axes" or whatever is misunderstanding the purpose of those guard factions. They shouldn't be brought in to drive conflict*: they should be brought in to help enforce the setting's authenticity.

Which is why Prime is telling you that you need a player base in those areas for this, really; there's no need beyond the DM team to enforce the setting where there isn't a strong, frequent player presence.

* (Okay, technically the Wachter faction did exist during the War of Copper Knives to drive conflict, but the fact that they were disbanded after the storyline was over illustrates the point: once the conflict was over there was no need for them anymore.)

P.S. Edit Note: my purpose here isn't to criticise the past DMs in anyway, by the way; I agree, those old stories were great. But rather I think your implicit criticism against the current approach is not only unfair but ignores many practical realities, and the desire to put the tools of agency into player hands has to be done for the right reasons.

There is a lot to unpack here. To start with, I wasn't suggesting another war. I was suggesting that there be support in these regions to play guards, and draw player attention away from Vallaki, solely. There are a lot of opportunities out there. You're making some core assumptions that are a little disingenuous to my intent, among others drawing allegory to Warhammer 40,000, and overlooking my actual intent which is not to mimick the wars, but the factional diversity of the times these events took place.

In addition, although I suspect the question was facetious, the Dementlieuse Civil War was inspired by the War of Copper Knives because the DM who ran it -- Arawn -- Had very fond memories of the experience. I believe the tension over the Krofburg silver plot was a similar situation.

Saying that something is not personally in my vein of interest doesn't mean that's it's inherently wrong. I'm also not sure why you feel so defensive to speak from a position to speak on behalf of the Server Staff, or to speak as if you are the resident authority on the server mission. You aren't, and there's no need to be so hostile or presumptive. Let the staff speak for the Staff, and let the Player speak from the Player's perspective and experiences.

Quote
People have wanted to, for years, play as the Wachters, because that area of the server is valuable in resources for roleplay, but offer next-to-nothing in terms of setting immersion.

I also don't agree that the events that have transpired after the War of Copper Knives and Dementlieuse Revolution have had similar impact, and I'm not sure why you would take offense over it. The simple truth of it is, many things that have transpired exist in a microcosm of limited consequence. They didn't leave marks on the server for decades to come. They can't be appreciated, or witnessed by anyone but whom was present, whereas the effects of the War of Copper Knives and Revolution are directly able to be touched, witnessed, and interacted to this day. There's a difference to being part of history, and whacking miles that are irrelevant. Events that feign world-ending disaster can only have so much effect if they are always stopped, and never are the consequences suffered. They lose their value. What made these events special is that players got to be part of a grander, more epic drama that unfolded, and even make their name amidst it. There was nothing a player could do to change the course of the Revolution, or the War of Copper Knives. But they were parts to the machine of change, and change in a good way is so rare on this server. It becomes stale.

The goggles of nostalgia aren't rosy-tinted, I'm explaining what I liked. They were just better, in my opinion, because they were more real than end-world events existing in a microcosm or off-world events in Borca, Richemulot, or Darkon that exist only in that moment, rather than leaving a lasting impression on the server that actually exists. Implementing some more lateral faction diversity can only create more roleplay.

It's one thing to admit that you aren't personally interested in this, and that's fine; It's another time dismiss wholesale an opinion as lustful nostaglia. Most of what's been done since doesn't provide the same opportunities as those events did in the past, and they've held a lot of player support for wanting to do things with them for nearly a decade. So why not?

I don't think it's unfair to point to the rommulich's as with the Wachters, they too are nobility, fortress or no. My stance is still attached to that of Krezk over Wachter because thematically that makes more sense to grant a guard faction to.

This first sentence to me highlights that you have not spent nearly enough time Barovia-side in the past 6-7 years. A great deal has happened over that time and a great deal many stories have been cemented into the framework of the world around us. Off the top of my head, mostly due to my own involvement within it is the War of Gundarak where remnants of that battle exist within both dialogue and environment if you know where to look (hint, it's to the west). There have been some limitations put in place I imagine from the DM team to prevent any disruption of players who might not wish to be involved in whatever arching story is appearing which may be why a good deal of the conflicts recently have been outside of Dementlieu. Another reason could be because it would require dev assistance to properly display lasting changes. I may not have the decade of experience within potm, but do give us some credit that I know what I'm talking about when it comes to server history. Perhaps you look so fondly at the copper knives, revolution etc because you were more involved within them. I know for a fact you've spent a great many years within Dementlieu rather than Barovia so no offense, but your vision is clouded in terms of what occurs in Barovia.

As my elder compadre above me has already mentioned, you most certainly are looking at these events with rose-tinted goggles. Whilst I never took part in the events of the copper knives or revolution, I have interviewed several veterans of the server that have, many of whom do not share the sparkling wonder that you do on all of the events. That is not to say that they were bad or even close to awful. I believe they were magnificent plots in their hayday, but getting bogged down in golden years stifles new eras of roleplay. I personally believe that the quality of rp within POTM has only increased over time and we've been blessed with a plethora of grand story tellers who we get to share the world with, many of whom are pillars of the community with their structure and methods of playing their characters with consequences. In short, give the new age a chance bud.

Using the terminology that both of you are using to try to dismiss my viewpoints as whimsical nostalgia is absolutely infuriating. Because the truth is; It's not. There are things I like better than others, and among those things, I get exhausted of microcosmic DM Events that are self-contained. Bringing the world alive to me is more interesting than vying for limited DM attention in a minor event. That's just how it's always been. The thing about the War of Copper Knives is that it was, much like the Dementlieuse Civil War, dragged out quite a bit. The part that was precious about it didn't have anything to do with the overall event, but the rammifications during and after. During it, Vallaki was not the only hub for roleplay in Barovia; If you were an outlaw in Vallaki, you could still find reasonable roleplay across the Alina River. As it stands now, Barovia is artificially condensed into a single area for roleplay, unless you just want to go off to hang out somewhere else, without any setting interaction through official factions.

By stating that I feel the direction of the server has changed in a way that I, personally, find boring, doesn't mean I'm discrediting the quality of someone's roleplay. It just means that it I don't find things particularly compelling to involve myself in. Despite everything that has allegedly transpired in Barovia, I have to say that Barovia visually has changed very little. Much of what happens in small, isolated plot lines are often betrayed by the fact that they operate under a bluff. If the players decide they have no interest in stopping or acting on behalf of X; Then nothing is going to happen. There isn't a constant, motive force that you are subjected to. There are no stakes, and no overriding risks.

There are those who are content with the status quo, and that's their due. But I find it exceedingly boring. After so many years , the number of possibilities and things I've interacted with have left me for want of fresh perspectives to engage with. I've played Barovia and Dementlieu plenty over the years, and I wouldn't immediately presume that my only login on the server is BraveSirRobin; Most if you have interacted with me in some form or fashion without even realizing it in the last decade.

Maybe it's just best that I don't further interact with this thread. Being attacked twice in a row and accused of not seeing things clearly is frankly, not the response I needed or wanted. So go ahead and lock this, the discussion for me has run it's course. I'm sick and tired of it, and I have no further interest in engaging in this discussion.

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Re: A Barovian Revival: Growing a Domain
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2022, 04:59:56 AM »
My point about wars was that wars are memorable. You've glossed over huge amounts of non-war faction conflict in your original post, which has happened recently, and called it stale and boring. And now you state you want to bring in new guard factions to drive that same non-war conflict. You don't see the contradiction in that?

I have to agree with Prime. I think the problem is your perspective.

But I see we're now devolving to using irregular verbs. When you dismiss the current modern era as stale and claim your server veterancy as an asset, you're just freely voicing your opinion; when we criticise that opinion from the perspective of our own experience, we're being hostile and presumptive. I'll save us any further trouble and bow out of this conversation.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2022, 05:06:41 AM by APorg »
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BraveSirRobin

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Re: A Barovian Revival: Growing a Domain
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2022, 05:37:54 AM »
My point about wars was that wars are memorable. You've glossed over huge amounts of non-war faction conflict in your original post, which has happened recently, and called it stale and boring. And now you state you want to bring in new guard factions to drive that same non-war conflict. You don't see the contradiction in that?

I have to agree with Prime. I think the problem is your perspective.

But I see we're now devolving to using irregular verbs. When you dismiss the current modern era as stale and claim your server veterancy as an asset, you're just freely voicing your opinion; when we criticise that opinion from the perspective of our own experience, we're being hostile and presumptive. I'll save us any further trouble and bow out of this conversation. 

But not without the last word, apparently. Look; Some moderator, just close the thread. This wasn't even about anyone in specific, but somehow it turned into an argument about my perspective being incorrect rather than how these suggestions could or could not create additional roleplay opportunities when my personal opinion is, it's stale.

I'm losing my patience with the degree the forums turn into tossing stones, and frankly; Sick of bothering. This thread was just a test bed to show an example of how these discussions frequently go.

I'm tired of it. I'm frustrated by it, and frankly, done with it. The most infuriating part about this is, a non-trivial number of the posts in reply to this consisted of primarily informing me that my perspective is inherently incorrect to hold, and that it is warped and incorrect, whilst being wildly blind to any personal biases in making that statement.

I expected someone to discuss the points of how these things could or could not contribute to this, rather than being rather blatantly and boldly corrected that I am not entitled to my opinions or viewpoints.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2022, 05:47:55 AM by BraveSirRobin »

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Re: A Barovian Revival: Growing a Domain
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2022, 05:46:14 AM »
In the spirit of good faith, I'll say this much: adding new factions to drive new conflict is an interesting idea. It's adding guard factions for the justifications you gave that I don't agree with.
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BraveSirRobin

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Re: A Barovian Revival: Growing a Domain
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2022, 05:51:50 AM »
In the spirit of good faith, I'll say this much: adding new factions to drive new conflict is an interesting idea. It's adding guard factions for the justifications you gave that I don't agree with.

You're misreading my justifications. I harkened back to those conflicts because they progressed the story in a way that has permanence and continuity; A major problem this server has is that there are a lot of things that happen that aren't recorded or catalogued in any meaningful fashion. There are living monuments to this date of these events. Things that exist in microcosms that live, and die with the characters involved in them do not do much for that.

During the Krofburg mines and Watcher events, you had more than one guard force, multiple domains; and multiple jurisdictions that invited more than just centralized Vallaki play and utilized those regions of the server. I just want to see things given more choice and variety, rather than being issued a bounty in Vallaki and being sent to Port.

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Re: A Barovian Revival: Growing a Domain
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2022, 06:15:00 AM »
I've already said why I don't think guard factions are a good fit to address those objectives so I won't repeat myself unless you genuinely care for me to elaborate.

A new bardic and/or scholarly faction whose goal is to try and preserve history might fit, because uncovering the truth in Ravenloft is an inherently risky proposition putting you into conflict with pretty much every darklord and more. And the Erudite Society in Port is definitely not a good fit for those objectives, despite any superficial appearances.
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Re: A Barovian Revival: Growing a Domain
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2022, 06:23:36 AM »
There is no incentive to go to other maps most of the time. I don't think guard factions will change that either, as that is putting the cart before the horse. What Prime says about the team needing to see interest before deciding to get involved is not only true, but just as true for other players as well. In a word, content. I would like to see more hooks for players to be able to latch on to the setting and tie their RP to what is happening around them, that's immersion. Degganwy and Dverg have a decent shot at supporting something more official because there's already some people who hang around often enough to be interacted with. But the counter argument is there - Vallaki has more tools today than it ever has previously with the changes to the gates, the night spawns, and all the rentals and open buildings, and we're still not making the most of it. TL;DR interest must be demonstrated first.

Calad's post QFT below

I know this opinion will raise voices but...

the only way to make Barovia immersive, and enjoyable, and more atmospheric again, in my honest opinion, is with RP opportunities yes but moreso when we all stop treating it as the starter zone.

Then I assume we'd get more people who play in Barovia because they enjoy the RP and thus put in more effort, similar to Port, and not people who just go through the place because it's where all the dungeons are at before they move on to Mist Camp. Less disruptiveness too, which'd stop driving away people who are genuinely interested in RPing here.

I would love to see Barovia expanded but at the moment we fail to get people to use even just Vallaki itself.

Anastian

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Re: A Barovian Revival: Growing a Domain
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2022, 06:37:53 AM »
Brief comment, red Vs blue conflict in Port is alive and well. It's just that some things are unseen!
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Re: A Barovian Revival: Growing a Domain
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2022, 06:50:07 AM »
Brief comment, red Vs blue conflict in Port is alive and well. It's just that some things are unseen!

Do they have a faction forum yet?

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Re: A Barovian Revival: Growing a Domain
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2022, 10:03:06 AM »
Not that I am aware of, but on a past thread the DM team highlighted that having two, officially clashing merchantile factions wasn't going to be a thing that would be supported iirc. I believe it is fair because the Traders have a weaker foothold in Port as opposed to the Bellegarde and their operations in Kroftburg are somewhat impregnable to anything the RVT might do (without spoilers, but in general it's there to always have a chance to stir trouble as a DM plot picks up with their involvement).

Having two official players faction that would always, naturally be at odds would create good conflict RP on paper, but it might be redundant (similar if not equal faction concept) and it would allow, in my opinion, a lesser degree of freedom for the DMs to create plots bssd on the Bellegarde on a whim. This because if they became official, they would be tied to some stable, consistent figures (much like the leaders of the RVT) whereas the Bellegarde has always changed high ranking members to enable the presence or a foe that can be defeated by the official faction.

I know my view might be skewed being an RVT, but I feel like having this higher degree of difference in concept and freedom for the Bellegarde is healthy.

Still I don't want to derail the conversation: I feel like some plots like that are simply very long winded and  a lot of it is going on behind the scenes, causing conflict that is not necessarily visible and that doesn't lead to PvP (a healthy thing imho, PvP should always be the extreme situation and able to be self contained when it happens as escalations are likely to cause a lot of OOC drama).

In general I stand by the idea that rather than having official factions, catering IC to more players to form a group with a certain intent will generate great RP. See the company of the bridge, see the tunnel cats etc. I feel like official support is not strictly necessary to create new group RP, whereas it serves its purpose for the already established official factions as they are canon groups that represent the setting
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Re: A Barovian Revival: Growing a Domain
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2022, 10:55:19 AM »
In the past few years our focus has been enabling player initiatives and roleplay to create their own conflict and dynamics, which has worked rather well since the number of player groups has greatly increased over recent years.

Player factions are more dynamic and less rigid than official factions, they can rise and fall dynamically. It's also rather easy to set up a Discord for your player faction if you want to organize things, and DMs can even be invited if you want to keep them in the loop.

Official factions require a lot of work to set up and maintain, and in the end aren't necessarily more active, nor better DM supported than player ones. Not to mention that adding a faction in say Degannwy won't make it into a new self-functioning mini-hub; these players would still have to go to Vallaki for most facilities since we won't turn every possible location into a self-sustaining hub.

That Vallaki is the only major hub in Western Barovia is very much intentional and part of our design philosophy; we believe that roleplay happens as a result of player interactions and that the best way to foster roleplay is to maximize those interactions. People can then branch off to wherever but they have to come back to the hub sooner or later, then meet new people.

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As to the other point, nothing prevents a DM from running major plots such as Wachter, Krofburg, Zeklos war, CotF, Black Army, etc., though they need to coordinate with the development team if they want that plot to impact the world. That being said, few DMs want to run such major plots because they're extremely taxing and time consuming, not to mention they often generate upset among the playerbase.

Kireek

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Re: A Barovian Revival: Growing a Domain
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2022, 09:00:33 PM »
What I really would like to see are more dynamic trade routes in barovia. the map has all these little towns, but the only real good trade route is illegal smuggling...

More jobs/trade.. things to talk about.. minor quests that don't really offer xp, but can offer a token amount of coin...? That would e so swell and give people things to rp about. Populating the world would be awesome..

HouseOfLament

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Re: A Barovian Revival: Growing a Domain
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2022, 07:59:00 AM »
Perhaps a weapon delivery quest with a random location?  It all depends on where the Gundarakites are acting up and hence are in most need of discipline
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SardineTheAncestor

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Re: A Barovian Revival: Growing a Domain
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2022, 10:54:31 AM »
I like Barovia, but it's not hard to see why most don't make natives of the realm though, or why those natives quickly become outlander-like magic slingers and adventurers with little engagement with the domain.

Whether this changes or not, it's still probably going to be the favourite of most players. It will probably never be like Dementlieu where RP can be abundantly found inside the city. Most associate this domain with adventure and monster hunting.

You might be able to "become a part" of its society as an outlander, if people all of a sudden started to play natives and spent time hanging around like townies, but at this point I think you'd need an interest check to get it started, and no less than three adjacent player factions/families just to start with if you don't want the moment to pass in merely a few weeks. It's not a job for a couple people, whether those people are DMs, devs, or players, it will take dozens of interested players to begin with.

From there, the lasting power would be completely up in the air and based on player activity and how much DM attention that generates. But such a change can't happen overnight, it'll take enduring effort, and again, a lot of people with a lot of patience. You might also find that it runs into a lot of the same obstacles that Krofburg did when it ended up not a hub, but a quiet place to RP off the beaten path, which some preferred and others criticised.

It will also need communication to inform those who'd like to get involved in the initiative on just how to begin and how to stay interested and active when it is found that relatively few will be able to stick with tradition in the long term. Existing official factions are not a mile marker for this - all of them see magic users and adventurers in their ranks from time to time, including as leaders. Only the guard faction sees its mages "graduate" to become adventurers, the rest continue to welcome them or even encourage it.

I think a lot of players would be excited to try it out at least, even though it wouldn't be as gory, flashy, and exciting as the typical prowl through the countryside. But it would be a completely different vibe to Dementlieu, and I think that would be to its benefit, because a lot of people just aren't into that kind of high society stuff and want to play in a more rugged, sanguine domain.
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yinyang

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Re: A Barovian Revival: Growing a Domain
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2022, 01:19:39 PM »
In favor of a Barovian revival though not really the methods proposed in OP. In my mind, a big problem with Barovian RP is that anything outside of the outskirts seems to require a certain amount of pre-planning, either as an event or ooc coming together on a group concept. Vallaki needs an organic revival before inorganic, forced methods are used for the rest of Barovia, otherwise, any surge of life in the rest of Barovia will always be one-offs.

Port-a-Lucine was designed with social/political/intrigue RP in mind, there are many cafes, natural IC places to seek RP, not so for Vallaki. The outskirts make for an awkward place to seek RP, they don't make much sense IC, they tend to be either extremely busy and loud or utterly empty. Meanwhile the natural gathering points, IC places to seek RP, are spread out very far. If you go anywhere besides the outskirts or perhaps the Lady's Rest you are unlikely to stumble on any RP.

I don't have a solution, except perhaps to encourage people to use the lfrp tool, which is woefully underused, and only ever seems to have a single other person using it that typically seems to have just forgotten it was on while out dungeoning.
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