Author Topic: The healer dies again!  (Read 758 times)

Sinthepie

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The healer dies again!
« on: October 27, 2022, 05:01:12 PM »
Okay here me out, because there is not a whole lot of detail to it. We all hate it when the one guy with the healing items falls, and now nobody else can take the healing potions he has to cure everyone, don't we? Why don't we make it so that "unconcious" people can be bartered with? I am sure it could open up more ways to rp aswell.

zDark Shadowz

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Re: The healer dies again!
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2022, 05:05:47 PM »
Being on the ground locks up actions such as bartering or even moving items around, kind of a hardcoded thing that you need to be able to perform actions to move inventory.

Buy everyone 4gp bervis honey before going on an adventure.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2022, 05:08:28 PM by zDark Shadowz »

BraveSirRobin

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Re: The healer dies again!
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2022, 05:09:22 PM »
Okay here me out, because there is not a whole lot of detail to it. We all hate it when the one guy with the healing items falls, and now nobody else can take the healing potions he has to cure everyone, don't we? Why don't we make it so that "unconcious" people can be bartered with? I am sure it could open up more ways to rp aswell.


Slit the Healer's throat, so he becomes a corpse, so he can then drop the items from his ghost form near his body in response to you roleplaying searching him. The server obviously wants to encourage the ability to take critical items off of the dead, but the oversight when unconscious is unfortunate.

Merry Munchkin

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Re: The healer dies again!
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2022, 05:21:29 PM »
Yikes. Remind me not to be the healer in your group


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BraveSirRobin

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Re: The healer dies again!
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2022, 06:02:39 PM »
Yikes. Remind me not to be the healer in your group

Hey, either you die, or the rest do. Gotta mitigate them losses. I can't help it your inventory is only accessible as a corpse.

Madame Trousers Son

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Re: The healer dies again!
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2022, 06:21:27 PM »
You can buy potions of Cure Minor wound both in Vallaki and in Port for cheap, if everyone has a few of these it at least helps mitigate the problem.
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Lex Talionis

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Re: The healer dies again!
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2022, 08:22:50 PM »
Okay here me out, because there is not a whole lot of detail to it. We all hate it when the one guy with the healing items falls, and now nobody else can take the healing potions he has to cure everyone, don't we? Why don't we make it so that "unconcious" people can be bartered with? I am sure it could open up more ways to rp aswell.

Why does only one guy have the healing stuffs? But, as BraveSirRobin pointed out. Downed is not dead. Dead allows a little bit more freedom. I think it's a fair tradeoff. Everyone should be prepared.

Sinthepie

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Re: The healer dies again!
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2022, 08:32:23 PM »
it's not always the "one guy" carrying the healing, but it has always been a case that whenever people start going unconscious, the survivors end up not having any healing.
It would be nice if there was a way to trade with fallen people really, because it actually makes sense that you would rummage for healing items IF the person is willing to part with them, or other items in that regard.

BraveSirRobin

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Re: The healer dies again!
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2022, 09:13:06 PM »
it's not always the "one guy" carrying the healing, but it has always been a case that whenever people start going unconscious, the survivors end up not having any healing.
It would be nice if there was a way to trade with fallen people really, because it actually makes sense that you would rummage for healing items IF the person is willing to part with them, or other items in that regard.


I don't think this is an unreasonable idea. It might just be a mechanical hurdle for the Devs.

noah25

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Re: The healer dies again!
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2022, 11:06:08 PM »
It seems uneccessary to me. If I party up with someone who lacks the foresight to buy a potion, or as mentioned previously, a cure minor wounds item I am not putting my life in their hands twice. Its not like its hard to find an herbalist or be one for that matter.

SardineTheAncestor

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Re: The healer dies again!
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2022, 11:13:46 PM »
I like and support this suggestion even if workarounds exist
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HouseOfLament

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Re: The healer dies again!
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2022, 10:17:09 AM »
This sounds like a good use case for a system that expands the ability to pull items off those who are bleeding out or dead.  Most of the reasons for doing this are nefarious, however
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SardineTheAncestor

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Re: The healer dies again!
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2022, 03:00:48 PM »
If there's a possibility this could be willing for the downed player (e.g. they are the ones putting the items onto the barter page) I think it would be a great change. Accessing another player's inventory is just grief bait for sure.
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hn3SoNaReS

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Re: The healer dies again!
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2022, 01:24:25 PM »
So rather than people actually carrying some healing items, you would rather someone alter or create a new system so less people carry healing items? OOOOkay  :roll:

SardineTheAncestor

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Re: The healer dies again!
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2022, 01:42:11 PM »
It's multipurpose. This isn't a system for carebears, autopilots, and other bonus players. Hardcore pro NWN world champions can now play bandits and knock people out to take their stuff via subdual rather than kill them and have the ghost drop stuff. Satisfied?
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zDark Shadowz

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Re: The healer dies again!
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2022, 03:40:15 PM »
Like I said before, being on the ground locks up actions so you can't move your inventory at all. Barter screen only works if the person gets to have actions and if they had actions they'd self-heal.

Other alternatives are either drylooting options (i dont want people touching my potions arbitrarily even if I do go down, I might still be regenerating from a potion I drank in advance), or, a separate playerfeat tool where the bleeding out player marks an item in their inventory with it and uses it on a nearby player, so it's a forced item deletion and item receipt.

If that nearby player doesnt have the space for it though, script-forced acquisitions can even force out plot items like the PC data object if it has been placed in the wrong location, so it isnt ideal. I still see people who have played here for years overload their inventory to completely full and drop valuable things, from rings of rosey dawn in long grass to the usual weapons & shield, bags of loot when picking up a jade key etc.

It really is as simple as making sure people  have a first aid kit, even if all it is is making sure folks have a 4gp vial of honey from bervis, a few drobita or a stack of bandages.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2022, 03:54:06 PM by zDark Shadowz »

SardineTheAncestor

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Re: The healer dies again!
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2022, 04:34:42 PM »
Items can be and are contextually disabled though, I can think of plenty of examples of when you'd get a "You cannot use this item." prompt.

Yeah, everyone could play perfectly and be very well prepared for every situation, but then healing probably isn't necessary in the first place. I think if it can be created without bugging people out then having extra options just makes the game feel more natural.

The implications for RP outside of dungeons however make bartering with downed people an excellent feature candidate, if only it is possible.
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BraveSirRobin

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Re: The healer dies again!
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2022, 08:23:09 PM »
Other alternatives are either drylooting options (i dont want people touching my potions arbitrarily even if I do go down, I might still be regenerating from a potion I drank in advance), or, a separate playerfeat tool where the bleeding out player marks an item in their inventory with it and uses it on a nearby player, so it's a forced item deletion and item receipt.

It's multipurpose. This isn't a system for carebears, autopilots, and other bonus players. Hardcore pro NWN world champions can now play bandits and knock people out to take their stuff via subdual rather than kill them and have the ghost drop stuff. Satisfied?

If there's a possibility this could be willing for the downed player (e.g. they are the ones putting the items onto the barter page) I think it would be a great change. Accessing another player's inventory is just grief bait for sure.


If I'm to be entirely honest; I don't believe that being able to steal from an unconscious player to be a matter of griefing, if it was even possible; After-all, people can already take your weapon, your shield, and all your gold; What is even the point of being pernicious over a few potions, or other items?

Personally speaking, I don't think there are enough thieves, bandits, brigands, and otherwise on the server to begin with, and if this created more outlaw roleplay with legitimate incentive to be an outlaw, I'm all for it. Likewise, if it allows party members to get ahold of items they desperately need to save the rest of the party, you can discuss the consequences of those actions IC, rather than seeing it as an OOC infringement.

zDark Shadowz

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Re: The healer dies again!
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2022, 10:23:38 PM »
I've been on servers where you can loot your allies' packs outright.

I won't deny grabbing healing is useful but sorting it back into ones pack is a nightmare, and if the pack was overloaded it doesn't know how to tetris it back to autoinstall everything where it was before, and you could have bags glitch into the ground and no one knows what was in it to reclaim what was lost.

To be honest people can already steal from others as they are bleeding out with just 1 point in sleight of hand - the DC to beat changes from 30 to 0 when someone is bleeding out. All Spot does is tell you what goes missing.

Inventory stripping en masse in general is just absolutely maliciously problematic. When your own inventory has been torn up and redumped into your inventory for the 20th time you'll still prefer if other people had healing items rather than trash your inventory looking for them.

I don't want people touching my stuff. I'd consider it a PvP action, even if it were an ally. If a monster was the one that bled me out, I can't opt out to the pvp action of my allies looting me after the fact. It conflicts with the pvp rules.

Barter cannot be made to work while bleeding out, and the other options that can be coded, suck.

Best I've seen is several stages of subdual or looting options where gold & potions drop first into a separate bag when force pulled, and then the rest of ones equipment and items if someone keeps getting beaten like a pinata. Which is what might happen if ones only healing was a quintessence or some other non-standard healing item that you're trying to pull off them.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2022, 10:30:39 PM by zDark Shadowz »

BraveSirRobin

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Re: The healer dies again!
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2022, 10:38:58 PM »
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To be honest people can already steal from others as they are bleeding out with just 1 point in sleight of hand - the DC to beat changes from 30 to 0 when someone is bleeding out. All Spot does is tell you what goes missing.

If someone is bleeding out unconscious, there's no reason that you'd need to randomly acquire a single item; You'd be able to take your pick. I'm pretty sure Pickpocket has a weight limit and randomizes what you receive.

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Inventory stripping en masse in general is just absolutely maliciously problematic. When your own inventory has been torn up and redumped into your inventory for the 20th time you'll still prefer if other people had healing items rather than trash your inventory looking for them.

I'm not sure I'd so much as make it inventory dumping into a bag, as giving access to see another player's inventory if I had my pick of it. That way things aren't being redistributed into a back and repacked into your inventory, but rather a window to access it similar to a party member in vanilla. I think this would be worth it as well, to be implemented by Guard PCs when searching packs to keep everyone involved honest.

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I don't want people touching my stuff. I'd consider it a PvP action, even if it were an ally.

The distinction is that it isn't your stuff, it's your character's stuff. If they consider it a hostile action, if they're awake to understand it happened, then they could perform recourse. I'm not sure what your character is supposed to be able to gleam, vulnerable, unconscious, bleeding to death on the ground. The idea that their concerns over minor items is bigger than their life is a more problematic view than a few misplaced inventory items.

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If a monster was the one that bled me out, I can't opt out to the pvp action of my allies looting me after the fact. It conflicts with the pvp rules.

Not neccessarily, and for example... Voracious is a PvP opt-in action, and can be performed upon a corpse. It only becomes a PvP action AFAIK if you badly impair the corpse in the process. It doesn't require your consent. Similarly speaking, thieving from someone isn't a PvP action, either. You can steal from whoever you please, by doing the option, you are opting in to PvP. You are not performing PvP. In-fact, the opt-out of PvP is to give them your wealth, or acquiesce to their demands. If you refuse, then you are opting in to PvP. If they steal from you, they've opted into PvP. The action itself is not PvP. Therefore, accessing your inventory would not be a PvP action, but that character opting into PvP themselves.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2022, 10:42:15 PM by BraveSirRobin »

zDark Shadowz

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Re: The healer dies again!
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2022, 10:53:24 PM »
My opinions differ from yours, having personally experienced several varieties, and I'll leave it at that.

SardineTheAncestor

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Re: The healer dies again!
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2022, 02:10:21 AM »
Yeah, I'm not saying theft is griefing. I would just rather the downed player chooses what to put into a barter window. Then bandits don't need to corpse people and if someone forgets healing items the system can see use. Dunno if it's possible to create, but it sounds robust and useful.
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