Suggestion - Soft Level Cap

[SardineTheAncestor]

XP cap.

If it didn't take 6 months for the average player to reach 14ish and well over a year to hit 20, all this without enchanting, I probably would encourage people to just bite the bullet and grind for a couple weeks tops if they want to sustain the flood of alpha wolves around Vallaki. I wouldn't be complaining if ambient threats around Vallaki became even more dangerous, and the mist spawns I think are great for example, several of them being awesome new creatures, but actually encourage high levels to stick around more since some of them actually return XP, and low and mid levels can easily be caught out by them. It's always a double edged sword when trying to entertain two distinct level categories, the powerful and the powerless.

But if the average character's level was above 15, I think Vallaki would lose a lot of its charm, even if certain systemic things remained in place.

Many have mentioned the need for the setting to react more to high levels who do not play respectfully of Vallaki. I can't think of any mechanics that would really deliver, there aren't any monster abilities that target stronger, higher level characters. It is all up to DMs and MPCs who are terribly outnumbered. I think it would be ideal if they could handle it all by themselves, but they also have a lower level audience to entertain.

No
No
No
No
No

UNLESS

They also return the XP gain rate for dungeons too.

In that case make it level 12 😆😆😆

(Seriously - levels are a game mechanic I wish sometimes was just gone and we'd be all stuck at level 2).

Imagine how interesting that would be.
😊

I'm with you there, it would really be something else to see progression and character building that is not linear, instead coming with risk and sacrifice (besides dying if you make a mistake). But, D&D isn't really about that, so I'm just trying to work within the confines of the system we have

[zDark Shadowz]

You have to pretty much have to make Ravenloft your full time job if you wanted 20 in a year.

That's a lot of roleplay ticks in large groups so ticks aren't missed because a smaller group doesn't have quick typers to trigger whatever needs to be triggered for it.

I know one person said they got level 8 in a week during an NCE. I've barely gotten level 8 after 3 and a half weeks. Thats a x3 time gap.

I used to know of a couple of people who got to level 20 in less than a year. I have a level 17 and a level 19 after four or five years.

It takes some pretty significantly invested characters to encounter an AMPC at a low level and be able to become strong enough to closure them (without the AMPC just handing them a consolation win for participation) before their timer runs out.

Thats why low levels collect information and outsource it to high levels, and then the perception of high levels coming around to stomp AMPCs gets born if it isn't handled properly. Most times it is. Sometimes it isn't sure.

I can come up with a level 13 build that could probably close certain types of AMPCs and be considered "fit for west Barovia" and keep it there.

It's just easier if people used appropriately levelled alternate characters if they want region-locked roleplay. For existing characters to fit into regions I'd still refer back to the delevel crystal mechanics I posted prior as preferrable so players could set themselves down without needing a DM and maintain their levels.

I can understand if there'll still be some folks who only want to play one character, and thats fine, but try decide where your sphere of influence lies and tailor your play to there. Makes it easier for DMs, AMPCs, friends and factions to know what your direction and intent is.

[Phantomswake]

Just throwing this out there, but you could make it perma-death after 13th level if your in west Barovia. Play at your own risk.

Problem solved.

Edit: Call it "The Currse of Strahd"

Evil Laughter Echoes: Muhahahaha

[Skelni]

Just throwing this out there, but you could make it perma-death after 13th level if your in west Barovia. Play at your own risk.

Problem solved.

Now this is the brutal compromise we need.

[MAB77]

The main problem with that suggestion of course is that it would give players the power to perma-dead others. Have mercy on our poor DMs that already have to adjudicate tiresome PvP grievances.

[Phantomswake]

For what it's worth, I wrote "Play at your own risk". - Meaning, to fully opt in by being on the wrong side of the Mist wall. There isn't any arbitration really. Play the ball where it lies.

Edit: I want to further expand on the idea.

If the character dings 14 level in West Barovia they get teleported out by the mist, to East Barovia. Or maybe they have to talk to Madam Eva NPC to actually complete the level up process. There she tells them that they are cursed and if they ever return through the fog they stand a terrible chance of closure. (If they ever should return). Further it would be up to the player to have all their things packed and ready before this happens. Everything is placed on the player, and not on the DMs.

[zDark Shadowz]

It would conflict a little with AMPCs that use Corpse + Mist Orb as a pseudo-subdual & carry-off.

[Phantomswake]

It would conflict a little with AMPCs that use Corpse + Mist Orb as a pseudo-subdual & carry-off.

Do you mean a player hauls your corpse to West Barovia to raise you and then kill you again? I could see how that would be a problem that would need adjustment. Perhaps bodies / corpses are hard coded not to pass through the Fog wall maybe?

If you mean an AMPC? Why would they do that? Even so, with the restriction I just said this would be moot. (if it could be done).

[Day Old Bread]

I find the entire idea thoroughly uninteresting.

Personally, I have no qualms with the many high level characters that hang out in the Western part of Barovia. Additionally, I have no issue with a lvl 2 character running to the MC. I'm all for allowing players to play where they like to play.

With the recent change to the mechanics of the mist wall and RPXP, I think its nice that they're encouraging players to pick a zone, and stick to it.

Less frequent bouncing between zones is, for me, the best method. I'd like to see more effort put into that than to hamstring PC's for playing where they enjoy the most.

[Phantomswake]

The idea doesn't bar you from "playing where they like to play". It only adds consequence and weight to your choices. It forces players to put "skin in the game" if they want to be "the hero" (or "the villain) they can be. Only the truly brave (or fool-hardy) / good & evil alike will hang out. I can guarantee 95% of the high-level power creep will be gone from West Barovia. 

While I don't mind the changes to make things harder for travel, I don't think it has enough impact. We wouldn't even be having this conversation still if there wasn't still a lingering problem.

[Nemesis 24]

The idea doesn't bar you from "playing where they like to play". It only adds consequence and weight to your choices. It forces players to put "skin in the game" if they want to be "the hero" (or "the villain) they can be. Only the truly brave (or fool-hardy) / good & evil alike will hang out. I can guarantee 95% of the high-level power creep will be gone from West Barovia. 

While I don't mind the changes to make things harder for travel, I don't think it has enough impact. We wouldn't even be having this conversation still if there wasn't still a lingering problem.

The votes are massively weighted against, not for.   So, the problem is for the minority, not the majority.  Basically, the problem is one the minority needs to either get over or adjust to, but this endless debate to accommodate the overwhelming minority shows that this minority is the one that needs to adjust.  Not everyone else.

[Phantomswake]

I just brought up the idea, as an alternative. So I don't get your meaning.  You can't look at the polling up top and apply it to how the discussion is developing now. Technically this is starting to be it's own thing entirely, however trying to fix the same problem.

If you think there isn't a problem then that is one thing, I can respect that. But if there is a problem (and I think there is and so do a few others) trying to shut down the debate doesn't serve any fruition to that end.

minority is the one that needs to adjust.

That is the intent. (also how bills work in the U.S. senate, they get shot down, re-organized, re-presented, re-debated, etc. etc.)

{FYI} I voted against soft level cap, but I am obviously for my own idea or I wouldn't bring it up.

Back on topic:

There could be an alternative to perma-death. (if that seems to harsh) We could instead have player shelving upon death for "X" amount of months. That way the character in question would be taken from the play, and then that player could still play that character eventually. Just another idea. I think it's messier but it could work.

[SardineTheAncestor]

The idea doesn't bar you from "playing where they like to play". It only adds consequence and weight to your choices. It forces players to put "skin in the game" if they want to be "the hero" (or "the villain) they can be. Only the truly brave (or fool-hardy) / good & evil alike will hang out. I can guarantee 95% of the high-level power creep will be gone from West Barovia. 

While I don't mind the changes to make things harder for travel, I don't think it has enough impact. We wouldn't even be having this conversation still if there wasn't still a lingering problem.

The votes are massively weighted against, not for.   So, the problem is for the minority, not the majority.  Basically, the problem is one the minority needs to either get over or adjust to, but this endless debate to accommodate the overwhelming minority shows that this minority is the one that needs to adjust.  Not everyone else.

Just trying to meet the devs in the middle. They do consider this a problem that needs solving or otherwise mitigating, just the community doesn't think this is the solution. That's fine and will probably lead to this thread being abandoned as the community thinks up something else.

Most of the people who voted yes will probably remain anonymous because of replies like these. I don't see the point in calling them an overwhelming minority and telling them they need to get over it. Does just talking about an intriguing hypothetical need to be considered an endless debate?

[Phantomswake]

I liked your ideas Sardine, and I appreciate you asked these questions. In the end I didn't agree with that particular solution personally, but I think your on the right track and thanks for caring about our community.

And like you pointed out, hopefully we can come up with something that most of us can agree to eventually.

[Rocket]

I ain't been playing so idk, but I could assume higher level characters might be more prevalent in Vallaki region since the XP changes so I could understand if there is a "problem" going on with high level characters disrupting the status quo of healthy rp and play.

A level cap would introduce a meta for what build to hold before the mistwall and after as dark said.
It would be gimmicky and just making an issue of itself in a way. If a player had enchanted items, would they remain with the enchanted bonuses?

Good to acknowledge a problem that needs adressing.

[SardineTheAncestor]

I agree, there would definitely be "Vallaki" builds and a whole meta discussion about that in no time. The enchanted gear we have is already so good on a 20 cap server that the curse would either have to nerf or entirely disable enchanted gear.

I liked your ideas Sardine, and I appreciate you asked these questions. In the end I didn't agree with that particular solution personally, but I think your on the right track and thanks for caring about our community.

And like you pointed out, hopefully we can come up with something that most of us can agree to eventually.

Thanks. I don't want this thread to devolve and get locked, it was my hope it could at least end on a positive note. It's moving pretty fast now so I will encourage others to be ready to take any more refined ideas to new threads where they can get the notice they need. This one is probably going to reach its limit, but I hope it inspired some useful ideas that are a little more popular, not to mention something that's able to be implemented.

[Merry Munchkin]

I don't think this is really a problem that needs solving, but if folks are heck-bent on a "solution" to high levels in West Barovia, then I think a relatively easy option would be to create a custom Enervation spell to function as a curse when transiting the Mist back into Barovia.

A maximized Enervation drops you 4 levels.  Customize it with no save, and folks will get level drained going back in to Barovia.  You can have the Mist script check for character level, and impose the Enervation if the character is over level 14. 

Unlike Energy Drain, Enervation is not permanent, and it can be restored, so it is more of an inconvenience than anything else, but it is a signal to high levels.  You could justify it as a automatic curse from Strahd on any characters that would be theoretically powerful enough to make trouble for his realm, and you could have players RP it for full flavor while they are in Western Barovia.

Of course, some folks will just pop restoration and be done with it.

[BraveSirRobin]

Hypothetically speaking, even if you did this solution, and a level 20 came from Port to Barovia and was truncated down to level 14 mechanically, they'd still have all of their enchanted equipment and gear a level 20 would have access to. While it's also possible for a level 14 to have the same gear, it's statistically less likely to see a level 14 with full kit.

[Maffa]

lads... if it aint broken, dont fix it...