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Author Topic: Suggestions - Monks, Feign Death, and other out there ideas  (Read 808 times)

SardineTheAncestor

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Suggestions - Monks, Feign Death, and other out there ideas
« on: October 07, 2022, 08:29:25 AM »
This is less a continuation of the recent thread and more a separate branch entirely. It is not about buffing monks so much as granting them more choice and variety in feats and potentially class features. I'm not gonna go soapboxing about what monks are good at. This thread is for people who play monk or like the class's flavour as it is now, and what it could be with some brainstorming. If you can think of some cool abilities, either sourced from PnP materials or not, please post them here (or in another thread, for the sake of organisation). Again, this is not a thread to call for outright buffs, but changes to the bigger picture, and to generate some more interest in the thinktank. Think of synergy between abilities and the monk's unique role as its own class.





Monk Class Features
I consider the class's built in features to be one of its biggest obstacles in terms of additions. Some of its innate abilities are so strong that adding more on top could easily imbalance it. I think we should not be against the possibility of some of its innate class features being removed, or made into feats that you must choose, in exchange for other abilities. To close this section of the post I would like to ask people to think of characterisation over the raw power of the end result of the build. Even some less than optimal feats that you may personally consider worthless could have real uses ingame that aren't just for RP. Finally, let the devs consider balance and what is possible, let's just get some brainstorming going on and avoid arguing over balance.

Here are a few ideas to start off with. Weapon monks, tattooed monks, ascetic monks, monks who follow "paths" and want some flavour feats that grant you bonuses not necessarily useful in combat but in other situations, and anyone else who has some ideas, come post yours if you feel inspired.

Meditation - New Class Feature
A new class feature that allows monks who are out of combat to enter a meditative state. Think of it like a "short rest" only they can do. While in this state, they will gain fast healing equal to their wisdom modifier until they stop meditating. Perhaps a small bonus to skills and saves while they are meditating, representing their strength of conviction while their mind is empty and they are at peace. To counter abuse and frustrating gameplay, a delay could be implemented, lasting a few rounds before the meditation begins to confer its benefits, all of which should immediately fade after they stop meditating. Limiting factors if needed could include a cooldown, maybe 2 hours?

Rebalanced Monk Speed
I have often thought of monk's speed as one of its greatest strengths, but this could also be one of its greatest hindrances. Perhaps it is time we reassess their innate speed and consider granting only some of it. What if monks only got two increments of their 10% speed increases for free⁠—for example, at levels 3 and 8⁠—but could buy more with feats, potentially becoming faster sooner than before, and received some more bonus feats while leveling up, giving them a choice of improving their speed or their other ki abilities? A monk's speed maxes out currently at level 18 with a 60% bonus, and some would say they should be able to achieve that were this new system implemented, which I won't disagree with, their speed is a big part of what makes them unique.

This could spark an entire argument, but if somehow monk speed could be unlocked from the class features besides some of it, and just chosen during levelups as class feats, with extra feats granted to compensate, so that speedy monks are speedy monks and other monks have other specialties, I think they would start to feel much more diverse in gameplay, but I could be wrong about this.





Monk Feats
Monk has little choice in class feats. Stunning Fist doesn't have anywhere near as many options as the Turning feats. Perhaps more feats which spend Stunning Fist uses could be suggested?

Reflect Arrows - Feat
Prerequisite: Dexterity 13+, improved unarmed strike, deflect arrows
Specifics: Once per round, the character may launch an incoming projectile back at an attacker after successfully deflecting it.
Use: Automatic if not caught flat-footed.

Comments: Just for fun. I know Deflect Arrows can be inconsistent and that most people might avoid this for similar reasons to Circle Kick, but if we could have it available as a feat, it would still be cool to see it do its thing once in a while.

Improved Wholeness of Body - Feat
Prerequisite: Monk level 11
Specifics: Wholeness of Body now grants the effect of the Lesser Restoration spell and reduces the character's exhaustion by 4 when used.
Use: Selected. Replaces Wholeness of Body.

Comments: Monks already get a bonus to their endurance, but this could come in handy for those longer fights that might not be going your way, or if you get hit by a called shot at the wrong time. One of those cards you can play when you're running on empty. I kinda wish Second Wind could be improved to be the same way, but maybe I'll bark up that tree in another thread...

Deadly Calm - Feat
Prerequisite: Monk level 7, Discipline 10 ranks, Concentration 8 ranks
Specifics: In the dire moment before defeat, the monk empties his mind and focuses his ki to survive. After suffering a critical strike, the character gains fast healing 2 which will last until the first of three conditions are met: the monk falls unconscious, exits combat, or 3 minutes pass. At level 11, this ability automatically upgrades, granting fast healing 3 instead.
Use: Automatic, cancelled upon exiting combat.

Comments: Not a huge amount of healing for a soloer on a server where you can eat crits of 40 or more by level 7, but in a party context, with others to take some of the hits, this could make the difference between surviving and not, so I'm sure someone out there would enjoy gambling with it. Hopefully this would stack with Sacred Healing and Regenerate XYZ Wounds spells/potions in case you have a fellow regen enjoyer in your party.

Feign Death - Feat
Prerequisite: Monk level 3, Discipline 6 ranks, Perform 6 ranks
Specifics: The character's intense training allows him to halt his breathing for an extended period of time and slow his body's functions, causing him to enter a pseudo-comatose state which closely imitates death. While in this state, he cannot be drowned; all such effects still take hold and their checks will be resolved but only trigger once the monk has left this state. Creatures who can perceive the monk when this ability is used must pass a Concentration check (DC 10 + Monk level + Perform) or they will be tricked into believing he is dead. A creature who encounters the monk already in this motionless state, however, will have the difficulty check increased by 4. He may remain in this state for a number of turns equal to 3 + his monk level in turns, and may stop feigning death at any time, but after exiting this state, he may not enter it again until he has rested. Combat modes may not be used while in this state and are disabled upon entering it. The character is unable to speak and will also be considered flat-footed and prone, lying perfectly still and therefore automatically failing any reflex saves.
Use: Selected.
Special: The difficulty of the Concentration check is reduced by 4 for undead and incorporeal creatures.

Comments: I'm not aware of any PnP appearances for this ability. Obviously very useful for leading enemies into ambushes or if the monk is the last one standing in a party with no way out. If I'm right, undead/ghosts/etc. sense life differently than living creatures, so it should be harder to fool them, but maybe not impossible. A yellow text/bordered atmospheric text warning should appear every minute for the last 5 minutes you have on the timer before it expires on its own and you are forced to wake up.

Note about the underlined part: Allowing a monk to feign death multiple times in one rest (say once every 2 or 3 hours) could probably be fine, but I think fooling any enemy twice would be totally incompatible with PotM's gameplay, they should see through the ruse automatically.

Improved Feign Death - Feat
Prerequisite: Monk level 5, Discipline 8 ranks, Perform 6 ranks
Specifics: The character has harnessed greater control over his own life energy, allowing him to focus on meditation even while suspending his body's functions, increasing the difficulty check of Feign Death by 4 and gaining fast healing 1 while in this state.
Use: Selected. Replaces Feign Death.
Special: The difficulty of the Concentration check is reduced by 4 for undead and incorporeal creatures.

Comments: Like the meditation class feature, but a limited lesser form that can nevertheless be used in dangerous situations more readily.





In retrospect, maybe each section, or even each feat suggestion, could be complex enough to deserve its own thread, but I'm not a cop so I can't stop you from starting your own thread to make sure your ideas aren't lost in this one, especially if this one lights on fire. This is just me signalling that I want to talk about potential for new monk abilities on the forums with hope it may lead to increased interest in the class. :mrgreen:

Some of these ideas may seem a bit out there and therefore not be a fit for the server, but maybe the thought is entertaining to others like me who are into these more unusual abilities and playstyles.

I thought it would be cool to have some healing abilities, especially ones that the monk could share with others; Wholeness of Body getting multiple charges, perhaps, or just Stunning Fist spenders for monks who find they have too much in some situations, say in fights where the enemies are immune to both fire and mind-affecting. I will post some ideas later if no one has anything too soon.

Anyone have any other ideas to share?

edit: grammar
« Last Edit: October 07, 2022, 09:14:23 AM by SardineTheAncestor »
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Murd

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Re: Suggestions - Monks, Feign Death, and other out there ideas
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2022, 08:10:37 PM »
I think stunning fist in general sucks, along with the abilities that use the charges. Fiery fist is the only decent one, but it quickly loses value as it doesn't scale.
Why fiery fists? Why not other elements. I think the way to make monk more fun and engaging is to keep the class the same as a core, but change the stunning fist features and adding more 'uniqueness' or 'flavour' to the class.

Here's some random ideas thrown out:

Patient Defense:
Uses one stunning fist charge, the monk gains "epic dodge" and dodges the next attack thrown in the next round/turn/duration.

Step of the Wind:
Uses one stunning fist charge, the monk gains an X bonus to tumble for x duration.

Tongue of the Moon.
Starting at x level, you learn to touch the ki of other minds so that you understand all spoken languages (I actually think this one taken from 5e is really cool.)

Focused Fist
Spend one stunning fist strike to make the next attack at a +2 attack bonus (can scale with level to like 2/3/4)

I think fiery fist could scale to 1d6 and 1d8 respectively as well.



Phantasia

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Re: Suggestions - Monks, Feign Death, and other out there ideas
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2022, 11:59:42 PM »
I know I'm a dev, but I wanted to throw one out for fun and to see if anyone might have any improvements to make to a passing idea I had to give Monks some more team-play potential at the cost of their stunning attacks.

Ki Burst (Working Title)
Prerequisite: WIS 13+, Heal 8

Specifics: The Monk has mastered the means to expel positive energy from their body at the center through the manipulation of Ki. The monk heals anyone in a 10 meter radius immediately for twice their Monk levels. This ability consumes four uses of Stunning Fist when activated.
Use: Selected, instant.
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Duupir

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Re: Suggestions - Monks, Feign Death, and other out there ideas
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2022, 12:11:21 AM »
I know I'm a dev, but I wanted to throw one out for fun and to see if anyone might have any improvements to make to a passing idea I had to give Monks some more team-play potential at the cost of their stunning attacks.

Ki Burst (Working Title)
Prerequisite: WIS 13+, Heal 8

Specifics: The Monk has mastered the means to expel positive energy from their body at the center through the manipulation of Ki. The monk heals allies in a 10 meter radius immediately for twice their Monk levels. This ability consumes four uses of Stunning Fist when activated.
Use: Selected, instant.
I would like this change.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2022, 12:18:46 AM by Phantasia »

SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Suggestions - Monks, Feign Death, and other out there ideas
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2022, 12:55:31 AM »
All good ideas. I would also like some ways to heal others with ki powers, be that with regen or with a moderate but respectable burst of health. Or change the element of the Ki fists. I do find it useful as is, but it would be nice to swap from time to time, or simply choose which element my monk is attuned to. Burning Stunning Fist charges to gain skill bonuses is something I never thought about but I like that idea too.

I have to admit gaining charges for Wholeness of Body and using them on others from time to time would feel fantastic even if it wasn't as powerful as the Sacred feats. Big potential for good-aligned monks there.
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Re: Suggestions - Monks, Feign Death, and other out there ideas
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2022, 12:57:53 AM »
I know I'm a dev, but I wanted to throw one out for fun and to see if anyone might have any improvements to make to a passing idea I had to give Monks some more team-play potential at the cost of their stunning attacks.

Ki Burst (Working Title)
Prerequisite: WIS 13+, Heal 8

Specifics: The Monk has mastered the means to expel positive energy from their body at the center through the manipulation of Ki. The monk heals anyone in a 10 meter radius immediately for twice their Monk levels. This ability consumes four uses of Stunning Fist when activated.
Use: Selected, instant.

I absolute love the Way of Mercy/Monk of the Healing Hand though those archetypes fall under 5e and Pathfinder, respectively. Four stunning fist charges feels a little steep - perhaps reducing it to three charges? Would not the positive energy burst also harm undead in the immediate vicinity as well?

cheese tornado

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Re: Suggestions - Monks, Feign Death, and other out there ideas
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2022, 07:30:13 AM »
Alternatively, one could reduce it from a burst, to a Heal Other ability, like lay on hands. Sort of like doing Reiki on your party members.

MatticusCaesar

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Re: Suggestions - Monks, Feign Death, and other out there ideas
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2022, 07:57:47 AM »
Alternatively, one could reduce it from a burst, to a Heal Other ability, like lay on hands. Sort of like doing Reiki on your party members.

My issue with these kinds of abilities that are directed outwardly is that the monk's core interest is the pursuit of improvement to and perfection of the Self (3.5e style). 

A good or neutral monk might devote time to learning heal skill or herbalism to assist others with a kit or potions, but the focus of their Ki is for the perfection of self.

While it isn't going to happen, I'd rather see a monk be able to multiclass into cleric or favored soul to gain healing spells like that than to see ki start being used in spell-like ways to affect others. 

Ki Blast, for example, is really strange missile weapon ability that seems to violate all that and I would just as soon have that go away. I'd argue Ryu Hyabusa is no monk. :lol:

Fiery Fists or even Fiery Defense, by contrast, are Ki abilities that are only directly "cast" on the monk him/herself. 

As far as the "uselessness" of Stunning Fists, I will say this:
Without giving away the IC details of a certain historical event, my high-level monk used it, admittedly much to my surprise, to defeat a very stalwart opponent during a public IC event.  Those who were there know of what I speak.
It is an ability I'd rather not see vanish.  Given that you only get a limited quantity of uses of Stunning Fists between rests, I would advocate for a DC modifier on it - either in absolute terms, via a feat that could be taken, or maybe as a function of wisdom or charisma modifier and/or monk level.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2022, 10:42:55 AM by MatticusCaesar »
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SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Suggestions - Monks, Feign Death, and other out there ideas
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2022, 10:12:40 AM »
There are 3.5 sources though and the class description here which talks about how the monk can affect change in their environment, not just themselves. I agree that the monk's main focus should be that of combat, trailblazing, and survivability, thus some of the moves I suggested in the OP, but I like the idea of them having some auxiliary support moves to cure some status ailments and heal others if they invest in it. We may have to look outside of standard 3.5 sources though because you are right, in 3.5 there's not much for monks to do stuff like that, inspiration will generally come from other places for better or worse, but I know for a fact some are out there if we look hard enough.

I see nothing wrong with the standard role of monk being one of the more selfish classes, who excels in melee combat and has a few "patch up" abilities that augment what other classes can give them to do their thing, but otherwise few ways to directly help the party besides scouting, distracting, and fighting. Still, I think some masters of ki would feel really blessed to be able to impart some of that spiritual power on others even if it is costly to do so.

Stunning Fist is definitely useful in the right context too, as can the fire moves that consume it, but more strategic use of those charges would IMO only make this class feel even more satisfying to succeed with. Expanding it to be a sort of pool of abilities so a monk can think about how to crack open his toolbox at a lower level than when he has empty body and such would be great.

edit: I would also like to support the suggestion that they might be able to multiclass with select base classes. Perhaps a good way to limit it would be giving monks orders to belong to or heritages to come from. A draconic monk heritage, you would imagine, could be a sorcerer or a bard. There are also several canon examples of monks who take clerical levels as far as I know but I would need to go and confirm that. I think that on this server the actual power level of these multiclass builds would be limited and no one would choose them just for the sake of meta strength, but they would still have potential to be worthwhile and obviously fun to RP.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2022, 10:23:55 AM by SardineTheAncestor »
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MatticusCaesar

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Re: Suggestions - Monks, Feign Death, and other out there ideas
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2022, 10:46:54 AM »
Given that you only get a limited quantity of uses of Stunning Fists between rests, I would advocate for a DC modifier on it - either in absolute terms, via a feat that could be taken, or maybe as a function of wisdom or charisma modifier and/or monk level.

Silly me. It's been a while so I went and looked it up and it appears the DC is already modified by both the character level and wisdom.
https://nwn.fandom.com/wiki/Stunning_fist

Suddenly those Voodoo Bones or whatever they are look extra spicy! :lol:
« Last Edit: October 08, 2022, 10:49:20 AM by MatticusCaesar »
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SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Suggestions - Monks, Feign Death, and other out there ideas
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2022, 10:52:45 AM »
Yeah, the DC can feel really low but against vulnerable enemies it's not half bad. The main inhibiting factor is really how many enemies are just immune to mind-affecting stuff, as well as your fire. Still useful like you said, feels great when it comes in clutch. But once blade weave comes around, especially with a caster who has taken the greater spell focus, all bets are off on what you really want to use, but this follows the trend of most monk abilities sort of being there to shore up weaknesses if the party lacks these things to give to them.

The +2 DC feat is actually epic in the base game but maybe we could use it here: https://nwn.fandom.com/wiki/Improved_stunning_fist
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MatticusCaesar

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Re: Suggestions - Monks, Feign Death, and other out there ideas
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2022, 11:43:32 AM »
There's an item that grants it.
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Murd

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Re: Suggestions - Monks, Feign Death, and other out there ideas
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2022, 12:32:18 PM »
I think one important thing to keep in mind with stunning fist is that it’s not exclusive to monks.

The old pre-EE “best” stunning fist builds weren’t actually monks.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2022, 12:35:13 PM by Murd »

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Re: Suggestions - Monks, Feign Death, and other out there ideas
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2022, 03:29:39 PM »
While Monks do focus internally, they can and absolutely will exert their Ki to affect the environment around them. My feat example is how I would try to differentiate them from say, Paladins, to not make another single target lay on hands-like ability but something more thematic and appropriate.

I mean, Monks are supposed to get reality wrinkles in Ravenloft that goes for miles. Lol. Not that we are going to add that probably ever. Or there being any real way to actually make that work.

As for the stunning fist "tax," uses cap out at 20 at 20th, so I figured 5 uses to be fair at the top, but that may make it less appealing at lower levels.
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SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Suggestions - Monks, Feign Death, and other out there ideas
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2022, 03:56:54 PM »
Yeah, I would say lay on hands needs to stay lay on hands. The crit they can do against undead needs to stay unique to them. Monks already have their "one shot kill" move and if it needs to be enhanced in some way then I am sure something could be figured out.

Dragon #336 has this to say about monks: https://i.imgur.com/KvKj1BR.jpg

Text version under this spoiler, probably has some mild proofreading errors:


Spoiler: show
PRESSURE POINT ATTACKS

A monk with the Stunning Fist feat learns
to press her ki into her opponents. With
the Pressure Point Strike feat, she fine-
tunes this ability, sharpening her ki into a
scalpel that can puncture the lines and nodes
of ki energy inside a target's body.

PRESSURE POINT STRIKE (GENERAL)

You know how to strike opponents in super-
naturally vulnerable locations.

Prerequisites: Dex 13, Wis 13, Knowledge
(arcana) 5 ranks, Improved Unarmed Strike,
Stunning Fist, base attack bonus +8, ki
strike (magic).

Benefit: You must declare that you are
using this feat, as well as which pressure
point you wish to strike, before you make
your attack roll (thus, a failed attack roll ruins
the attempt). You can use Pressure Point
Strike as an attack against an enemy or to
remove a detrimental condition from an ally.
As an attack, Pressure Point Strike forces a
foe damaged by your unarmed strike to make
a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 your character
level + your Wis modifier), in addition to
dealing damage normally. A defender who
fails this saving throw suffers the effect of
the targeted pressure point. This ability only
works on giants, humanoids, and monstrous
humanoids. Other creature types either lack
pressure points or have very different ones.

You can aid an ally by bolstering him in
some way or by attempting to remove a detri-
mental condition. Make a level check against
the DC of the effect that caused your ally’s
condition to remove the condition.

The different uses of this feat count against
the number of times per day you can use the
Stunning Fist feat in specific amounts.

PRESSURE POINT ATTACKS

‘The more important a pressure point is, the
greater the monk's investment of ki to affect it.

White Tiger Array (1 use); A collection of
points targeted by the standard use of Stunning
Fist, when used on an ally they remove the
stunned, sickened, or fatigued conditions.

Red Monkey Point (2 uses): A creature’s
motor functions depend on this point. Striking
here paralyzes your opponent for 1d4 rounds.
Used on an ally, it removes paralysis.

Water Turtle Point (2 uses): This point con-
trols a creature's perceptions. Striking here
blinds or deafens your foe (your choice) for 1d4
rounds. Utilizing this point removes blindness
or deafness from an ally.

Dragon Soul Point (3 uses): A creature's
innate resistance to magic channels through
this pressure point. Striking here lowers an
opponent's spell resistance by 1d6 + your Wis-
dom modifier for 1 round (but not less than o).
When used on an ally, you can increase his spell
resistance (whether natural or granted by a spell
or item) by the same amount for 1 round.

Emerald Snake Point (3 uses): This point
helps protect a creature from toxins and poi-
sons, By striking this pressure point you can
flood your foe's body with internal toxins, poi-
soning him (injury, Fortitude DC 10 + 1/2 your
character level + your Constitution modifier,
initial damage 1d4 Con primary, no secondary
darnage), For an ally, you can delay the effects of
poison for 1d4 hours.

Royal Viper Point (4 uses): This point con-
trols a creature's ability to fight toxins and
poisons, Striking here imposes a penalty on the
target's saves against poison by 1 + your Wis-
dom modifier for 1d4 rounds. Touching this
point allows you to neutralize poison in an ally.

Celestial Dragon Point (5 uses): This point
regulates the flow of spell power. Striking here
prevents.an enemy from casting spells or using
spell-like abilities for 1d4 rounds, When used
on an ally, you may attempt to remove a condi-
tion caused by a spell or spell-like ability as if
using greater dispel magic.



These would be great when you don't have a bottomless magic bag full of potions and a lot of effects are being thrown around.

I read about another move called "Wholeness of Others" that actually makes Wholeness of Body only usable on others and will try and track it down later.
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SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Suggestions - Monks, Feign Death, and other out there ideas
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2022, 09:33:28 PM »
Does anyone know if there are monk features from Ravenloft source/Gaz/splash books/mags which are specific to Rokushima Taiyoo, Sri Raji, Hazlan, maybe Paridon? Or do we just have the few sentences of monk backgrounds from these domains?

Perhaps it would get more attention from the devs if we could find some choosable feats that come right out of those books, since the ideas in this thread are pretty much their own thing.
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Re: Suggestions - Monks, Feign Death, and other out there ideas
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2022, 04:24:35 AM »
I do think the change to Monk Speed would be good. Mainly because the speed is one of the monk's most overpowered features. I imagine most monk characters would still pick all the speed feats anyway, it's that strong.
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Re: Suggestions - Monks, Feign Death, and other out there ideas
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2022, 07:47:10 AM »
I do think the change to Monk Speed would be good. Mainly because the speed is one of the monk's most overpowered features. I imagine most monk characters would still pick all the speed feats anyway, it's that strong.

The whole proposition of nerfing its most powerful feature and giving crumbs in exchange sounds more like a petition of nerfing to appease non monks than of strengthen to appease monks.
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Re: Suggestions - Monks, Feign Death, and other out there ideas
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2022, 08:06:10 AM »
So, here's the point. I dont have much to offer in terms of mechanical advice. Never played a monk. But the thread this has stemmed from concluded on a strange note, which is "out of all the options this class has, there is only one right, all others are useless", which sounds much like the old saying about Henry Ford and the Model T.

So I guess much has to be shed in order to balance things out. It would be nice, for example, if that speed could be toggleable, and if you werent forced to microdose your keypresses in order not to faceplant on trees, mobs or traps, or if you just want to have a stroll while speaking with someone.

This was an uniformed opinion/vox pop kind of post. Feel free to ignore.


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SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Suggestions - Monks, Feign Death, and other out there ideas
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2022, 08:35:33 AM »
I do think the change to Monk Speed would be good. Mainly because the speed is one of the monk's most overpowered features. I imagine most monk characters would still pick all the speed feats anyway, it's that strong.

I also think the monk's speed and the ability to go over the maximum is one of its greatest strengths and quality of life features. I hoped I was clear in the OP that I don't want to see it go away for the sake of "balance" or something.

The whole proposition of nerfing its most powerful feature and giving crumbs in exchange sounds more like a petition of nerfing to appease non monks than of strengthen to appease monks.

I didn't call for a nerf, and this thread is not about removing their speed so they can be given "crumbs." This thread is not about the monk's absolute power level.

In the OP, I have suggested the possibility of letting monks gain more feats and have the option to buy their speed with these feats or choose other abilities instead. Suppose we were allow them to maybe even become faster a few levels earlier, or pick up some other feats to go for a different build instead, something they may feel is more character defining.

I would not call this the crux of my suggestion. In big picture terms I already believe monk is very capable, I just think its feat list is very short compared to other classes so I posted a few wishlist items which could perhaps give the monk some new party play tools. Maybe monk speed does not have to change for new class feats to become available.

So, here's the point. I dont have much to offer in terms of mechanical advice. Never played a monk. But the thread this has stemmed from concluded on a strange note, which is "out of all the options this class has, there is only one right, all others are useless", which sounds much like the old saying about Henry Ford and the Model T.

So I guess much has to be shed in order to balance things out. It would be nice, for example, if that speed could be toggleable, and if you werent forced to microdose your keypresses in order not to faceplant on trees, mobs or traps, or if you just want to have a stroll while speaking with someone.

This was an uniformed opinion/vox pop kind of post. Feel free to ignore.

I recall a suggestion about this before. I can't remember if it was ever working or not. Monk speed seems to work in a strange way. I recall on another server that used vanilla monk speed, I would have to relog every time I gained that next level of speed, otherwise the speed would not update. This strange bug may be present on PotM, I would have to confirm on the test server though. But if that's the case, I wonder if it's even possible to dynamically change the monk's speed in that way. It might be another case of "that's hardcoded." I don't even know if my suggestion of letting a player take those speed feats can even be made functional.

One workaround most monks are probably aware of is just activating both hide and detect mode to move more slowly. It's not perfect, but you eventually could have both on and walk at the same speed as others.
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HM01

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Re: Suggestions - Monks, Feign Death, and other out there ideas
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2022, 08:48:26 AM »
You can just use @walk normal to not move fast, it is the simple and most effective solution.

SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Suggestions - Monks, Feign Death, and other out there ideas
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2022, 08:51:10 AM »
Ah, so it does work. Thanks, that should have been easier to remember lol.
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