Author Topic: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change  (Read 4251 times)

ZSRunner

  • Vallaki Guards
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1084
Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #225 on: November 23, 2022, 12:17:51 AM »
I don't know if this is intentional, and apoligies if this should instead be a bug report, but the current post patch way of getting to the mist wall with a potion feels far less intuitive than the previous. very good way of doing it

Now, you have to bring a potion there, because, as it seems to be, the potion lasts for only a short time before going through (Or you have to just bring it there and do the prompt like old?) needs to somehow be messaged through what the Vistani says to you, because as of now it still says drink it next to him, which I did, then I had an unpleasant surprise of (even though I got to Barovia at 4pm) getting to the mist wall on time and realizing that I had not used the potion as I was supposed to, of which nowhere says it.

I haven't minded it up to this point, but I suppose it's good to mention that obnoxious OOC stuff like this needs to be explcitly said OOC (But, as I'll say again, I don't mind it overall, just now I get the anger it can produce when you miss the cutoff after making a good faith effort to get there), and not making people guess and then be fairly pissed when they lose out on a night of rping because no one is in the Mist Camp as of now post NCE.

Edit: Apparently it hasn't changed besides being able to be poppable later. Maybe I'm just having a chicanary moment, but I swear I never missed the mist wall under the pre patch system. (1 after Magna Carta. As if I could ever make such a mistake). But, it might be good to not mention dusk, since I think there's some confusion that I see on it on the discord. Or, as someone told me, changing it to 6 would also be a welcome change to make sense.

Well, there's a benefit to the consumable potion vs. the "purchased drinking" in that characters who might not be on good terms with the vistani can now get through the mist wall where they wouldn't have been able to prior. The new iterations means their friend, or patsy, can buy them a potion and trade it far away from the tser pool. That's a good thing.

I think the issue you had is related to time of day. They still function the same way as they did prior, the only difference is that now you can carry it with you can consume it. It'll still become inert at the prescribed time. The buff will still go away at that time too. If it's not working like that, you should screen and report the buggy.

Evendur

  • The Wayfarer Kinship
  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 154
Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #226 on: November 24, 2022, 07:47:40 AM »
While it has been said before, I would like to add to the point of blocking the mist path to Barovia.

We do have a very active community of players that spend a significant time of the day ingame and those are the once most visible when it comes to feedback.

As someone who currently does not have much time to spare for gaming due to work, I would like to point out once more how devastating the mist blockage is to anyone who only has an hour a day to play.
Logging in to find the wrong time of the day to go through the mist for an event or meet up with others for some scheduled RP will just break the game for you. And frankly it will make me think twice about even trying to play on Potm when I dont have the luxury of plenty spare time.

This does not really become apparent when you have the time to spare and I hardly noticed the change myself when I did, which is why I wanted to point out once more how this change destroys RP opportunities, especially for those who are not the most visible part of the server community.   

Anarcoplayba

  • Red Academy
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1217
Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #227 on: November 24, 2022, 08:41:50 AM »
I'll risk being flaied alive for saying this, but I'll risk anyway.

I usually like to play around the level 7~15. I believe is is easier to do game content, prepare parties and stuff. Recently a friend joined the server and me and another friend decided to "greet" him and start new lvl 2 pcs and climb the whole ladder.

My surprise was the population of high levels in Vallaki farming the low level content (the REALLY low level content). Now, I feel bad for making this as a critic because I know that those players are high levels because I do like them a lot, but I would like to bring this issue to the radar so the CC and the developers evaluate or re-evaluate this question, even to point out that I am wrong and that this is just my biased opinion, but I do believe that the population of higher levels in Vallaki increased and I felt extremely hard to put on a group and find level 2~7 content.
Noignar Huillen: Ilmater Cleric.
Hedien Gine: Arrow and Bow Artist.
Dolin Schneim: Dwarven Soldier

myrddraal

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 132
Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #228 on: November 24, 2022, 01:29:27 PM »
I'll risk being flaied alive for saying this, but I'll risk anyway.

I usually like to play around the level 7~15. I believe is is easier to do game content, prepare parties and stuff. Recently a friend joined the server and me and another friend decided to "greet" him and start new lvl 2 pcs and climb the whole ladder.

My surprise was the population of high levels in Vallaki farming the low level content (the REALLY low level content). Now, I feel bad for making this as a critic because I know that those players are high levels because I do like them a lot, but I would like to bring this issue to the radar so the CC and the developers evaluate or re-evaluate this question, even to point out that I am wrong and that this is just my biased opinion, but I do believe that the population of higher levels in Vallaki increased and I felt extremely hard to put on a group and find level 2~7 content.

One of the biggest reasons for this is the mindset I hear a lot of people having of "wait to do crafting until 10+ because its easier."  Which typically means they're going to be farming those dungeons over and over and over again for things like fire beetle mandibles, chitins, spider silks, shadow essences, etc for the "introductory" level of crafting.  Since it takes longer to get out of blind drive later, it means they are forced into more "down time" either RPing (which is good dont get me wrong) or crafting if nobody is around.  Which leads to people farming aforementioned low level content.  Or people will do something like the burned Gremishka filled house for "a quick 1k+" if theyre low on cash.  The obvious solution is for disruptive high level players to fork over gold to people just starting but theres no mechanical way to force that to happen without also punishing low levels.

Anarcoplayba

  • Red Academy
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1217
Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #229 on: November 24, 2022, 01:37:11 PM »
I'll risk being flaied alive for saying this, but I'll risk anyway.

I usually like to play around the level 7~15. I believe is is easier to do game content, prepare parties and stuff. Recently a friend joined the server and me and another friend decided to "greet" him and start new lvl 2 pcs and climb the whole ladder.

My surprise was the population of high levels in Vallaki farming the low level content (the REALLY low level content). Now, I feel bad for making this as a critic because I know that those players are high levels because I do like them a lot, but I would like to bring this issue to the radar so the CC and the developers evaluate or re-evaluate this question, even to point out that I am wrong and that this is just my biased opinion, but I do believe that the population of higher levels in Vallaki increased and I felt extremely hard to put on a group and find level 2~7 content.

One of the biggest reasons for this is the mindset I hear a lot of people having of "wait to do crafting until 10+ because its easier."  Which typically means they're going to be farming those dungeons over and over and over again for things like fire beetle mandibles, chitins, spider silks, shadow essences, etc for the "introductory" level of crafting.  Since it takes longer to get out of blind drive later, it means they are forced into more "down time" either RPing (which is good dont get me wrong) or crafting if nobody is around.  Which leads to people farming aforementioned low level content.  Or people will do something like the burned Gremishka filled house for "a quick 1k+" if theyre low on cash.  The obvious solution is for disruptive high level players to fork over gold to people just starting but theres no mechanical way to force that to happen without also punishing low levels.

A friend gave a polemic suggestion that I'll repeat here:

Create a script that makes killing enemies too weak for your level in certain areas to push the cap up, making harder to get of the xp cap or even putting you in sd.

This seemed extreme to me, but would help to avoid a level 12 destroying low level content casually while claiming to be in vallaki "for the rp".
Noignar Huillen: Ilmater Cleric.
Hedien Gine: Arrow and Bow Artist.
Dolin Schneim: Dwarven Soldier

myrddraal

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 132
Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #230 on: November 24, 2022, 01:46:56 PM »
I'll risk being flaied alive for saying this, but I'll risk anyway.

I usually like to play around the level 7~15. I believe is is easier to do game content, prepare parties and stuff. Recently a friend joined the server and me and another friend decided to "greet" him and start new lvl 2 pcs and climb the whole ladder.

My surprise was the population of high levels in Vallaki farming the low level content (the REALLY low level content). Now, I feel bad for making this as a critic because I know that those players are high levels because I do like them a lot, but I would like to bring this issue to the radar so the CC and the developers evaluate or re-evaluate this question, even to point out that I am wrong and that this is just my biased opinion, but I do believe that the population of higher levels in Vallaki increased and I felt extremely hard to put on a group and find level 2~7 content.

One of the biggest reasons for this is the mindset I hear a lot of people having of "wait to do crafting until 10+ because its easier."  Which typically means they're going to be farming those dungeons over and over and over again for things like fire beetle mandibles, chitins, spider silks, shadow essences, etc for the "introductory" level of crafting.  Since it takes longer to get out of blind drive later, it means they are forced into more "down time" either RPing (which is good dont get me wrong) or crafting if nobody is around.  Which leads to people farming aforementioned low level content.  Or people will do something like the burned Gremishka filled house for "a quick 1k+" if theyre low on cash.  The obvious solution is for disruptive high level players to fork over gold to people just starting but theres no mechanical way to force that to happen without also punishing low levels.

A friend gave a polemic suggestion that I'll repeat here:

Create a script that makes killing enemies too weak for your level in certain areas to push the cap up, making harder to get of the xp cap or even putting you in sd.

This seemed extreme to me, but would help to avoid a level 12 destroying low level content casually while claiming to be in vallaki "for the rp".

Wouldnt another script be hard on server resources?  I mean there is still tons of content around Vallaki for a level 12.  You can get XP from the werebat lords and the alhoon lair until like 15, maybe 16.  Ice Palace is probably similar on a high spawn.  The problem is entirely people wanting to save their gold instead of giving it to low levels to buy gear for the introductory crafts they felt they didnt have the gold to keep up on at low levels which is total BS and it can be done relatively easily.

zDark Shadowz

  • Outlander
  • **
  • Posts: 88
Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #231 on: November 24, 2022, 02:42:05 PM »
Some may not be high levels, just good at what they do, and some may be level 14+ wizards buffing a dual-kama wielding monk to hunt shadows. (Yes I saw you both, ruined my shadow xp grind DX)

Each person will have their own reasons, like "I cant do brothel so I do spider cave instead of roaming fields for a single grass spider nest that maybe sometimes appears" or "I'll kill sixty constructs I know are there rather than one of the four hags that may already be farmed out" or "why kill myself on firestorming ghosts when I can kill child vampires under Raduta, or go to tergs and get both teeth and bone golem skulls."

The only reason to pick the harder options are "loot and XP" which doesn't fly well with roleplayers, who will pick the easier option because it makes sense, and for those with too much loot, combat capped XP, or already hit the dungeon recently so cant get good loot for another couple weeks if they open the chest (ninjalooting or flagging scripts or otherwise), the incentive to "stay" away is lost.

It's not necessarily their fault. If it's quicker to do it themselves than hire people who could get themselves killed and never return with the resources while one waits for them why would one wait? And if they hunt for them as well as buy what was collected when they were offline, that's even quicker still.

There are some natural behaviours that result in both the low and high level populace that sets people on their own paths and preference, and there is a unique dynamic to it. Some may hate it, and are vocal, most ignore it and play anyway, the rest take every advantage that makes sense IC and OOC.

In my own opinion, the roleplay change promotes high end merchants with their high end stock to want to stick around in Vallaki. They get rewarded for sticking around and they're closer to players that can grind for it, since they don't enjoy MC RP and its rare they can offsell their goods in high player times there unless they have really expensive things for MC goers.

~~

Personally I feel bad with my lv 10 when I go back to (west) Barovia to look for herbs or roleplay with friends because there is content I can do east of it with people. I have my own issues with people not buying potions when I do market them, so I dont get the funds to buy herbs, so I have to go look for them myself and offload the potion weight off to members of my player faction.

Maybe level 10 is too high or too low for west Barovia, I don't know. There's still content I *can* do there but whether I should is a question that is debated between people that think I'm too high to be there and people that think I'm too low to travel with them and I'm just caught in the precarious middle just doing what I can do.

Anarcoplayba

  • Red Academy
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1217
Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #232 on: November 24, 2022, 03:00:08 PM »
Wouldnt another script be hard on server resources?  I mean there is still tons of content around Vallaki for a level 12.  You can get XP from the werebat lords and the alhoon lair until like 15, maybe 16.  Ice Palace is probably similar on a high spawn.  The problem is entirely people wanting to save their gold instead of giving it to low levels to buy gear for the introductory crafts they felt they didnt have the gold to keep up on at low levels which is total BS and it can be done relatively easily.

Technically speaking: I have no idea if this would hurt the server in processing power.

Mechanichally speaking: The problem is not the level 12, or even 15, running the alhoon. The problem is the level 8 running gremishkas for boredom or beetles for resources.

"My" suggestion in this would be tackling the "No XP kill". Did you kill a creature whose CR is too low compared to you, you gain cap or lose it less slow. This would not hurt the players who earn combat XP, just the ones TOO ABOVE the challenge they are facing. Let's imagine my lvl 15 goes to the Gremishka Cave just for the lulz. I can imagine a rest message like "the senseless killing clouds your mind, you have been lacking purpose or meaning and feel that in this way you may end losing your grasp on reality".

Quote
It's not necessarily their fault. If it's quicker to do it themselves than hire people who could get themselves killed and never return with the resources while one waits for them why would one wait? And if they hunt for them as well as buy what was collected when they were offline, that's even quicker still.

Well, here we get back to the server design and the message players receive. I do agree that it is faster to run low level content than waiting for low level to gather the resources and sell to you (including because low levels need parties to do content high levels don't). IF the server wants to send the message that low level content should not be done by high levels there is no problem in punishing their XP. If you are doing thatfor the RP, the RP is it own prize (or the resources).

My point is very specific: I would like to see a system that punishes high levels that farm content too below their power, for they suck the possibility of lower levels to have fun.
Noignar Huillen: Ilmater Cleric.
Hedien Gine: Arrow and Bow Artist.
Dolin Schneim: Dwarven Soldier

zDark Shadowz

  • Outlander
  • **
  • Posts: 88
Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #233 on: November 24, 2022, 03:10:51 PM »
It's only a minor inconvenience with the respawn timers, though it can become consecutive inconveniences from sheer volume of players, sure. Not just from repeat content runners but also equal competition and other people cycling in after they had waited out of courtesy themselves.

If there was an XP punishment, they dont get XP or cant be punished if they're already capped, they'd just get RP XP until it goes away, and any "punishments" would be split across many people.

When is it okay for someones "turn" if they arent capable of other content, even if they were perceived as too high for the area, but don't have a meta-build to do higher content? Then multiply that across 20 other people that want to do that crafting or collection for resale in their own time and not someone elses schedule, regardless of their level.

The conflict becomes not between levels but the server design to "not have too many master crafters." This kind of thing is, by deliberate server design, meant to bottleneck other players against each other, and exists outside the RP change debate. Resource dungeons will always be contested over but the fingers aren't to be pointed at other players, its the intent they are contested, and its more about who gets there first than level range of who is there specifically.

If anything, higher levels are done with it quicker so it can respawn quicker.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2022, 03:20:36 PM by zDark Shadowz »

ZSRunner

  • Vallaki Guards
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1084
Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #234 on: November 24, 2022, 11:16:26 PM »
I've got characters based in Vallaki and I do not typically find the higher level characters that hang there to be disruptive. It happens on occasion, but not frequently.  That said, if you notice someone who is grossly higher level farming an area repeatedly, just report it to a DM. Those characters could probably be supporting lower level characters by encouraging them to go and farm materials to be purchased.

While it has been said before, I would like to add to the point of blocking the mist path to Barovia.

We do have a very active community of players that spend a significant time of the day ingame and those are the once most visible when it comes to feedback.

As someone who currently does not have much time to spare for gaming due to work, I would like to point out once more how devastating the mist blockage is to anyone who only has an hour a day to play.
Logging in to find the wrong time of the day to go through the mist for an event or meet up with others for some scheduled RP will just break the game for you. And frankly it will make me think twice about even trying to play on Potm when I dont have the luxury of plenty spare time.

This does not really become apparent when you have the time to spare and I hardly noticed the change myself when I did, which is why I wanted to point out once more how this change destroys RP opportunities, especially for those who are not the most visible part of the server community.   

I believe this speaks to the intent of the change which is to encourage players to commit to an area. I could be wrong in this interpretation, but it seems very much the case. If you're a Port based character, you shouldn't be hopping back and forth to western barovia and back every day. If you're a vallaki based character, you shouldn't be leaving travelling beyond the mist wall and back on a daily basis.

If you're an MC based character, you've got tons of other places you can hang out and probably don't need to be jogging back into western barovia.

It does suck getting stuck beyond the wall after dark, but if you know you're not going to have much time to play, then I would suggest finding an area that is particularly interesting to you and stick to it. Also, consider that if there are RP events going on, often times there are DM's around to support that and if you've only a limited amount of time to play, you can always ask for a port to somewhere more suitable for yourself.  Won't always work, but it's an option on occasion.