Author Topic: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change  (Read 1987 times)

MAB77

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #150 on: September 22, 2022, 03:41:49 PM »
Is it? You are literally suggesting a tool so we can know when it's day or night time, so that one may know if it's the right time to log or not. I don't think Maffa's assessment was that far off the mark.

It's mistaking cause-and-effect. It's blaming this hypothetical tool providing information to players, rather than the actual cause, which is the restrictions that apply at night. If I want to go out and buy ice cream, but I look at the clock and find out it's 3am, so no stores are open, it's not my clock's fault that I can't buy ice cream and so don't bother to go out.

On average, a random player logging on at the Tser Camp will face an 18 minute wait if they want to go to Western Barovia (50% of a 0 to 72 minute wait => 50% chance of ~avg 36 minute wait => mean average of 18 minute wait).

Helping players mitigate this waiting time by providing them with more information is a good thing and a good way to make this change more manageable. Arguing that they should accept the lucky dip of Mist Camp RP is going to be a far more hit-and-miss strategy. Being an European time zone player, I know that if I log into the Mist Camp and find out I have to wait 18 minutes before going to Western Barovia, chances are good that I won't find any RP to distract me and will probably log off.

So in the spirit of being constructive: I'm fairly sure a tool could be written in Javascript to give some rough guesstimates as to when day/night times will be, given an input OOC time and IC time by a player. If I write such a tool, is there a way it could be hosted?

I'm sure a script could be done, there are a number of issues here. Most importantly, for security reasons we will not let any third-party software tap on the server. I'm sure you can understand why. As such, your tool would not directly be tied with the server. It would not know when the server resets. In-game time isn't always constant, nor fully consistent from a reset to the next. The tool would have to be re-synchronized manually regularly. That's for the more obvious points, there are other technical considerations, but at the end of the day you need but to log in to know what time it is, or you can just ask on Discord, though that's meta-gaming and should be avoided.

Again, you see a problem where to us it is a solution. We want to slow down the return of high level characters in western Barovia. There is no turning back to what it was before there were RPXP and no counterbalance. This is actually a very mild and good way to go about it. It even makes sense from an in-game perspective as canonically the Vistani do feast at night time. It is proper that they take a break and resume "work" in the morning.

I stick to my guns in that it is something you can easily plan for. You know when you cross in Eastern Barovia that you face the risk of being caught after dark (and the occasional noob will just learn) so whatever follows is a result of your own choices. You decide where you last log off and therefore are perfectly able to place your character in a location where it will not be an issue to log back at night. There is still plenty of meaningful things to do around VoB even being alone at lower levels. Night and day are both to be experienced on this server.
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MAB

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Dardonas

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #151 on: September 22, 2022, 03:50:02 PM »
After some thought, I'm actually not against the time gated aspect.  I do agree with what MAB said above, which is that you know where you log out at.  It will inconvenience some people, but I think it is good to pick one area to be an influence in rather than roaming across the Core at the drop of a pen.  This should encourage people to be more interactive with the setting and roleplay because they invest themselves in the area they want to be in.

I think, if anything, the wall will prevent people from rushing over to Barovia from Mist Camp when DMs are doing events, or when MPCs log in.

My only request is that the current formula for MPCs crossing the mist wall stay the same, where they can cross the wall without an elixir.  And, subsequently, I think they should be immune to the time gate.  A notable issue that might crop up for them otherwise is that vampires who hide their coffins east of the Mist Wall will have trouble making their way back because they already exist in a sort of "time gated" situation with their sunlight vulnerability.  It, of course, shouldn't be exploited but we should not worry about MPCs exploiting by the virtue of the privilege they have being able to be taken away.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2022, 03:57:53 PM by Dardonas »

APorg

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #152 on: September 22, 2022, 03:51:29 PM »
If I start posting the output of my tool to the forums so that people can actually try to plan their days around the IC day/night cycle, is that metagaming too?
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zDark Shadowz

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #153 on: September 22, 2022, 03:56:11 PM »
Though I must say the Blood o' the Vine can be an excellent spot for RP. While it's true VoB isn't intended as a hub, it already has all the required amenities (except a bank) and we are making VoB more interesting with ongoing changes. A hub is really just that place players are willing to stay at.

I think this is a good takeaway, that VoB can be a hub after all, just one that's unintended and not *currently* supported by the overhead. Similar to unsupported player factions, doesn't stop people from subscribing.

AMPCs follow where the people are, and there's been a few ghouls and vampires that've laired out there in the past.

Waiting out in Eastern Barovia at the tavern or doing one of many low and mid-high dungeons while one waits out the night are always options. Even high levels need to collect chitin from the ants there, and ancient dire bear fur, to do easy leatherworking xp, lurid mildew is in the caves. A couple hidden iron and rarely silver mines. An iron seam out there if you're lucky with a particular place.

Maybe its a little small compared to Vallaki, but many people confine themselves to the even smaller section of just the outskirts.

If you get cut off from the west, it's not like there's nothing productive to do while one waits. If its a DM event in west you're going for, ask for a teleport.

Nothing is stopping the specific people you intend to meet from heading to VoB as a middle ground, either.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2022, 03:57:52 PM by zDark Shadowz »

MAB77

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #154 on: September 22, 2022, 04:01:42 PM »
If I start posting the output of my tool to the forums so that people can actually try to plan their days around the IC day/night cycle, is that metagaming too?

People already ask on Discord. It's not that much of a deal or find out straight from the OOC room. Knock yourself out.
Best Regards!
MAB

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APorg

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #155 on: September 22, 2022, 04:02:24 PM »
Ok, good!
“Moral wounds have this peculiarity - they may be hidden, but they never close; always painful, always ready to bleed when touched, they remain fresh and open in the heart.”
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EarlofEtheria

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #156 on: September 22, 2022, 06:46:30 PM »
After some thought, I'm actually not against the time gated aspect.  I do agree with what MAB said above, which is that you know where you log out at.  It will inconvenience some people, but I think it is good to pick one area to be an influence in rather than roaming across the Core at the drop of a pen.  This should encourage people to be more interactive with the setting and roleplay because they invest themselves in the area they want to be in.

I think, if anything, the wall will prevent people from rushing over to Barovia from Mist Camp when DMs are doing events, or when MPCs log in.

My only request is that the current formula for MPCs crossing the mist wall stay the same, where they can cross the wall without an elixir.  And, subsequently, I think they should be immune to the time gate.  A notable issue that might crop up for them otherwise is that vampires who hide their coffins east of the Mist Wall will have trouble making their way back because they already exist in a sort of "time gated" situation with their sunlight vulnerability.  It, of course, shouldn't be exploited but we should not worry about MPCs exploiting by the virtue of the privilege they have being able to be taken away.

Great comments, I agree with each point. The RPXP part of these changes hardly holds my interest compared to the boons and cons of stricter travel.

EO

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #157 on: September 22, 2022, 08:44:09 PM »
Quote
My only request is that the current formula for MPCs crossing the mist wall stay the same, where they can cross the wall without an elixir.  And, subsequently, I think they should be immune to the time gate.  A notable issue that might crop up for them otherwise is that vampires who hide their coffins east of the Mist Wall will have trouble making their way back because they already exist in a sort of "time gated" situation with their sunlight vulnerability.  It, of course, shouldn't be exploited but we should not worry about MPCs exploiting by the virtue of the privilege they have being able to be taken away.

Undead and constructs are already immune to the choking fog since it only affects living creatures. We'll look into the possibility of having other MPCs (lycanthropes primarily) be exempt as well.

PrimetheGrime

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #158 on: September 22, 2022, 10:31:59 PM »
Alright so there's been a lot of opinions on both sides on how this change will effect how we all as players play the game. I think considering the patch is live now that we leave this thread be for now and start gathering data on how this change goes. If it really does look to be a detriment to the playerbase it's possible it'll be rescinded but time will tell. I would suggest for the time being, play out the new change and see how it goes. If need be there's always time to post up your feedback.

Rocket

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #159 on: September 23, 2022, 02:56:59 AM »
I would like to make a reminder, I understand the reasoning behind the mist wall locking.

To make the BEST of this change, guys please make an effort to seek others when you are locked on the East side instead of simply logging out.
Since it will be night time, you are likely to choose destinations such as Mist Camp, Tser Pool Vistani Camp, The "Bus Stop" benches very close to the crossroads, an interior location of VOB: Church, Blood of the Vine.
(I wish Blood of the Vine was a high traffic tavern and you could expect to find other players there consistently)

The new update revamps some dungeons for VOB. It would be nice if players at least in the VOB level range would err on travel to Mist Camp, and instead choose any option in West Barovia given the area has increased value. However, players always need to fill their gold so dungeon trips bring players back to MC. So the natural tendency of players is still, to fill up in MC.

I encourage you, regardless of this tendency, to travel back to Barovia for other activities not limited to dungeons.

This change is to deter players who RP in West Barovia and then Dungeon in higher level zones. So perhaps accept what it is, and begin RP in higher level zones.
Decrease the frequency you stay in West Barovia. Thankfully, any trips back to Barovia still reward RP with xp!

My point being, high level RP tends to stunt unless you really press to seek it out. It would be nice if it didn't feel so hard to do so.
And I'm not telling players who stay or enjoy West Barovia to leave, even I am one of the players who enjoys returning to connect the lower levels to RP growth and guidance.
I am saying what we all could hope to change - better and more RP in high level areas!
« Last Edit: September 23, 2022, 02:58:53 AM by Rocket »

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #160 on: September 23, 2022, 03:53:03 AM »
Quote
My only request is that the current formula for MPCs crossing the mist wall stay the same, where they can cross the wall without an elixir.  And, subsequently, I think they should be immune to the time gate.  A notable issue that might crop up for them otherwise is that vampires who hide their coffins east of the Mist Wall will have trouble making their way back because they already exist in a sort of "time gated" situation with their sunlight vulnerability.  It, of course, shouldn't be exploited but we should not worry about MPCs exploiting by the virtue of the privilege they have being able to be taken away.

Undead and constructs are already immune to the choking fog since it only affects living creatures. We'll look into the possibility of having other MPCs (lycanthropes primarily) be exempt as well.

What about lvl 20 monks? They're in their own time/space bauble and generally do not follow the laws of the domain they're in, being outsiders

MAB77

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #161 on: September 23, 2022, 05:33:36 AM »
"Generally" but not always. In this particular case, 20th level monks will not be given a free pass. That would be entirely the opposite of what we are trying to achieve.
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MAB

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #162 on: September 23, 2022, 10:03:22 AM »
"Generally" but not always. In this particular case, 20th level monks will not be given a free pass. That would be entirely the opposite of what we are trying to achieve.

Fair enough, makes sense. Asked only because that for area is perhaps the only one where Reality wrinkle ability can be played without DM involvment, should it be scripted in a different way. Thanks.