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Author Topic: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change  (Read 7375 times)

Death

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2022, 06:09:57 AM »
I don't mind this change. There seems to be some worry of timing and having to wait out the night, but frankly I'm not certain that is as big of an issue. If there are places you want your character to be, or hubs you want to hang around and rp in for a while, I don't see why you couldn't find a time to move them ahead of time to that location and try to keep them there as long as you want them to be there. I certainly wouldn't call this the greatest solution ever, but it is indeed a compromise, and a step in the right direction towards a better implementation potentially.

I don't think we should make things more expensive on a mechanical level. We should /not/ make things take longer for anyone. It's just not enjoyable on a gameplay level, when the focus of this server is both gameplay and RP. This would hurt the quality of life. I do /not/ want to have to sit longer, or grind longer, when I could be having a better time RPing and actually contributing to the game world and people's stories, or potentially participating in far more enjoyable gameplay content. Gold already takes a lot of time to make depending on the class and style of play you're running, contradictory to the concerns of people who are worried about timing for things OOC.


An idea I would offer over making things more expensive or longer, is to provide a potential alternative to a Vistani Elixir that could be used to cross the wall, or an alternative NPC that could sell one that only appears during night hours and might be a bit more difficult or hidden to find, perhaps aimed towards OCR players who are reliant on night travel to get around safely. For example, perhaps there is a shady Darkling somewhere that somehow managed to acquire some elixir and wants to sell them for a certain price (as an example of a random idea I had). Just something that is a work-around and makes things a bit more slightly accessible but also can also comprimise for people with potential gameplay and timing concerns about such things, that doesn't really hurt the quality of life in the server in general.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2022, 06:14:59 AM by Death »

myrddraal

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2022, 06:11:53 AM »
I feel like this will have the opposite of the intended effect.  The people who already use Western Barovia as a casual hang out after 14 when it originally stopped giving even minor progression are only going to keep doing so.  Imo if you want to push higher levels to “push themselves” give minor role play regression ticks while in WB.  Barovia natives / factions could easily justify having a chapter in VoB which is a ghost town unless you’re running the vestibule, and isn’t THAT far from Vallaki if they’re ACTUALLY needed to give guidance / solve a problem lower levels can’t.  Giving more high level pcs rpxp will just castrate MPCs that want to provide to the horror of western Barovia further because they now have an influx of new level 15+s hanging out.

Death

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2022, 06:21:29 AM »
I feel like this will have the opposite of the intended effect.  The people who already use Western Barovia as a casual hang out after 14 when it originally stopped giving even minor progression are only going to keep doing so.  Imo if you want to push higher levels to “push themselves” give minor role play regression ticks while in WB.  Barovia natives / factions could easily justify having a chapter in VoB which is a ghost town unless you’re running the vestibule, and isn’t THAT far from Vallaki if they’re ACTUALLY needed to give guidance / solve a problem lower levels can’t.  Giving more high level pcs rpxp will just castrate MPCs that want to provide to the horror of western Barovia further because they now have an influx of new level 15+s hanging out.

I think I am misunderstanding the writing of this post, or you might have misread Soren's statement. The change is, in fact, to give higher levels past 12 going onwards to 20, minor xp ticks, with the addition of extra difficulty being able to cross past the fog wall and into Western Barovia from Eastern Barovia. As far as I can tell, RP XP progression in Eastern Barovia is about the same as it is for the higher level areas of the server compared to Western Barovia (meaning it is uncapped there), but I could be mistaken.

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2022, 06:25:38 AM »
I feel like this will have the opposite of the intended effect.  The people who already use Western Barovia as a casual hang out after 14 when it originally stopped giving even minor progression are only going to keep doing so.  Imo if you want to push higher levels to “push themselves” give minor role play regression ticks while in WB.  Barovia natives / factions could easily justify having a chapter in VoB which is a ghost town unless you’re running the vestibule, and isn’t THAT far from Vallaki if they’re ACTUALLY needed to give guidance / solve a problem lower levels can’t.  Giving more high level pcs rpxp will just castrate MPCs that want to provide to the horror of western Barovia further because they now have an influx of new level 15+s hanging out.

I think I am misunderstanding the writing of this post, or you might have misread Soren's statement. The change is, in fact, to give higher levels past 12 going onwards to 20, minor xp ticks, with the addition of extra difficulty being able to cross past the fog wall and into Western Barovia from Eastern Barovia. As far as I can tell, RP XP progression in Eastern Barovia is about the same as it is for the higher level areas of the server compared to Western Barovia (meaning it is uncapped there), but I could be mistaken.

Only making it available during the day is hardly making it harder.  It just applies a waiting period.  For the most part you’ll just see more high levels hanging out until they’re at an xp buff / out of diminished and maybe go run dungeons more.  I didn’t miss the point.

I've suggested the same minor RP regression thing before because it does make sense.  If nothing there is a threat to you anymore, your skills would either stagnate at best or diminish at worst from "resting on your laurels" so to speak.  Since there are a handful of mobs you can still get xp on at 14-15, you could reasonably sustain level 14-15 even with minor regression so it really wouldnt be a huge detriment to people who really want to only be in Vallaki for the RP.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2022, 06:38:59 AM by myrddraal »

MAB77

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2022, 07:04:09 AM »
I feel like this will have the opposite of the intended effect.  The people who already use Western Barovia as a casual hang out after 14 when it originally stopped giving even minor progression are only going to keep doing so.  Imo if you want to push higher levels to “push themselves” give minor role play regression ticks while in WB.  Barovia natives / factions could easily justify having a chapter in VoB which is a ghost town unless you’re running the vestibule, and isn’t THAT far from Vallaki if they’re ACTUALLY needed to give guidance / solve a problem lower levels can’t.  Giving more high level pcs rpxp will just castrate MPCs that want to provide to the horror of western Barovia further because they now have an influx of new level 15+s hanging out.

We'll see. A significant amount of players requested this change on the premise that the culture changed within the player base and that we would no longer face the issues that forced us to implement the no RPXP for high levels to begin with. We chose to trust in our player base in this matter, but that can be reverted still if indeed it doesn't have the intended effect.

High levels in Barovia isn't the issue. High levels in Barovia acting disruptively is. With this change, those that wish to continue progress in western Barovia can now do so without need to go abroad to gain XP. Some will continue to do so of course, though that will require them a bit more timing, but we are giving them an option that allows them not to have to do so. I hope they will take it.

As ever my advises to play a high level character responsibly in western Barovia.

- Take it slow and roleplay. We are still first and foremost a roleplay server. Levels, loot, XP, these things are not a requirement to a good story. At 14+ you are already strong enough to survive most of the content of the server when in a balanced party and you really don't need to grind up to level 20. If truly you feel your character belongs to western Barovia, the return of the RPXP ticks should convince you that you do not need to go dungeonning abroad.

- Stay indoors to roleplay at night. Set the example. Tell people loitering in the outskirt at night to get inside. There is no game mechanic we can implant in a satisfactory way that will instill the fear of the night without being overly punishing to lower levels, so it has to be a conscious choice to support the setting lore. This is valid to all levels. Do your part. Stay indoors and roleplay at night. Merchants, use the inn's basement.

- Do not hunt MPCs in western Barovia. This ruins MPC stories. Train people, advise them, equip them, ward them, but let lower levels do the dirty job.

- Leave all dungeons to lower level characters, except for rescue missions. This one should be obvious, but bears repeating.

- Do not collect crafting resources from lower level Barovia yourself. Buy them from players. Lower levels cannot compete fairly with you. Use your fortune to buy them, it's truly the most significant thing to do with your gold at that level, so don,t be a miser and do offer 5k a box of flowers even if its not the sort you need. You can always set yourself up as a patron of apprentice crafters and pass what you don't need to them. Lots of good roleplay was born this way.

In a nutshell, don't be disruptive. If high levels stick to these principles, then its a given we won't have to revert back to the previous no RPXP in low-level areas.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2022, 07:08:20 AM by MAB77 »
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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2022, 07:09:08 AM »
I understand the desire for your players to experience the road, and I agree- I remember my times as a new player making the journey to Mist Camp very fondly. That doesn't change the fact that I personally don't see any benefit to closing off night time travel to western Barovia.

I am thankful for the change even though I don't have any characters that can benefit from it, regardless.

dutchy

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2022, 07:20:26 AM »
it never been the issue that higher lvls didn't get rp xp in barovia.
it never been the issue that it was about reward.

the issue was fairness.
if i tell you, you get 1 currancy of something for an hour you didn't swear or wern't acting nice towards another human beeing in life.
but told you yea but it doesn't count when you enter the workplace.
then you'd feel swindled.
and that's how it felt.

we have several faction bases in barovia that cannot be moved elsewhere.
guards
vardo
drain
elves
dwarves.

these are all stuck there, doesn't mean they cannot travel, but they will always come back to the faction bases, so i am glad we are getting the same deal as the rest of the server now. (reduced but still something)



as for mab or the staff in general sticking to this.

- Do not collect crafting resources from lower level Barovia yourself. Buy them from players.

honestly why would i buy a carrot if i can grow it myself or get it with ease?
why would i get said carrot in a dangerous place that takes a lot more time and has a lot more danger?
it makes no sense irl it makes no sense ic.
humans take the easy path, it's what we somehow do.

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Forte

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2022, 07:43:12 AM »
I understand the desire for your players to experience the road, and I agree- I remember my times as a new player making the journey to Mist Camp very fondly. That doesn't change the fact that I personally don't see any benefit to closing off night time travel to western Barovia.

I am thankful for the change even though I don't have any characters that can benefit from it, regardless.

Punishing players for simply wanting to travel, if they're lower levels, is a frankly hilarious continued example of PoTM continuing to deign timewasting as a gating mechanic to refuse people from doing... Whatever they actually want to do.

I understand that this is a hot button topic and there are several devs/DMs that fought with spear and tooth to actually even get THIS change alone, which is depressing as it is, but the truth of the matter is that roleplay experience, minor or not, should've been available regardless of zone with no time-wasting mechanics behind it. Imagine, me, as a full time worker, simply wanting to go dungeon with my friends, but I had logged out in the Mist Camp. It's night-time? What's that, I am limited on time and just actually want to dungeon with my friends in my free-time?

No, go to Hell, as a nicer, more PG-13 explicative phrase would state.

I already got exhausted from PoTM with the resting mechanics alone over the wear of a year and a half playing, waiting continual irl half hours for people's timers if one mistake was made to ensure a vital member was not left dead in the water. I've seen that three hour rest timer change to as early as level 8, or wherever it was last at, where buffs don't even last nearly as long as the time before rest.

There must be a better solution than this, simply put. I am not encouraged to return and come online knowing at any point if I come online at the wrong time, I'm simply screwed for possibly an IRL hour plus because of my bad timing with the ingame day and night cycle. Yes, it is a step in the right direction, but that step is still taken into wet cement. Receiving minor experience simply for adding to the setting and trusting players to either report or have DMs handle disruptive player behaviors while working alongside AMPC/MPC's players would be the better alternative (it should be obvious case closed to tell a player to knock off chasing a goddamn Werewolf with ethereal visage and full enchanted gear while screaming goofy phrases, versus a paladin protecting his immediate surroundings, for example), but that's a pipe dream.

Overall, what I expect to end up happening is people criticizing this change not for the right reasons, and for the benefit to go away of FINALLY, people being given what they deserve for adding to the setting, especially in Western Barovia, simply because we do not like the mishandled time-gate mechanic. It should change.

God willing, I hope you are not some poor sod who's like, level 5, and just wanted to travel to the camp and beyond to see what lies otherwise in the module, or did so for IC reasons.
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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2022, 08:03:23 AM »
There's absolutely no element of punishment in this, lmao.

Upping the cost of elixirs will have marginal impact on high levels, but hurt the lower levels and those that rarely dungeon the most. Generally, for the same reason, gold cost is rarely a very good way of shaping gameplay.

And in the end, as long as you roleplay along the way, you rarely need to hurry. It's the road, not just the destination. Experiencing the road matters too.

If I, a lone player, wanted to roleplay at myself, I would simply load a singleplayer instance.

Sometimes people want to meet up with their friends and play the game, just as much as they want to meet up and also enjoy eachother's company in roleplay. There must be a better solution than timegating people. Experienced players have played and seen the same road hundreds of times, and just like Newly Misted roleplay, it becomes obnoxious. Yes, obviously, appeal to whoever you travel with if you aren't alone, and react ICly to things, engage newer players, but sometimes, people are simply focused on getting to a locale to roleplay, which is the purpose of the server, or just play with friends.

Again, it's something that must be considered. Player enjoyment.
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Savras

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2022, 08:09:57 AM »
Not sure how i feel about it, high levels are already frequently around outskirts and the atmosphere of the horror aspect will readily die down when they're suddenly getting rp again.

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2022, 08:23:58 AM »
There's absolutely no element of punishment in this
12 hours a day, travel between eastern and western Barovia will now be closed. This affects more than just high levels; many, many times I have found myself going to the Mist Camp to get xp at levels 4-8 because of difficulties finding groups to travel with in the Vallaki area.

This also negatively affects anyone who resides in Barovia regularly but is a craftsman, as many elements of the crafting system require travel to other domains for materials. I.E. Smithing/Smelting, herbalism, alchemy, enchanting, woodworking, leatherworking.

I do appreciate the addition of RP XP, even minor RP XP for levels 12 and up, but this price seems far too steep for me and my characters rarely get that far above 12 without just leaving Barovia anyways. I also feel concerns about trying to attend player events that may be going on at night, or even just trying to engage in roleplay/dungeons with fellow players and being forced to wait anywhere between 10 - 60 minutes because of the time of day. I just feel like this is added and unnecessary downtime that won't really stop high levels from disrupting the area, it will just inconvenience them (and everyone else) if it happens to be the later hours of night.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2022, 09:58:41 AM by Dale »

Soren / Zarathustra217

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2022, 08:30:14 AM »
...

Punishing players for simply wanting to travel, if they're lower levels, is a frankly hilarious continued example of PoTM continuing to deign timewasting as a gating mechanic to refuse people from doing... Whatever they actually want to do.

I understand that this is a hot button topic and there are several devs/DMs that fought with spear and tooth to actually even get THIS change alone, which is depressing as it is, but the truth of the matter is that roleplay experience, minor or not, should've been available regardless of zone with no time-wasting mechanics behind it. Imagine, me, as a full time worker, simply wanting to go dungeon with my friends, but I had logged out in the Mist Camp. It's night-time? What's that, I am limited on time and just actually want to dungeon with my friends in my free-time?

No, go to Hell, as a nicer, more PG-13 explicative phrase would state.

I already got exhausted from PoTM with the resting mechanics alone over the wear of a year and a half playing, waiting continual irl half hours for people's timers if one mistake was made to ensure a vital member was not left dead in the water. I've seen that three hour rest timer change to as early as level 8, or wherever it was last at, where buffs don't even last nearly as long as the time before rest.

There must be a better solution than this, simply put. I am not encouraged to return and come online knowing at any point if I come online at the wrong time, I'm simply screwed for possibly an IRL hour plus because of my bad timing with the ingame day and night cycle. Yes, it is a step in the right direction, but that step is still taken into wet cement. Receiving minor experience simply for adding to the setting and trusting players to either report or have DMs handle disruptive player behaviors while working alongside AMPC/MPC's players would be the better alternative (it should be obvious case closed to tell a player to knock off chasing a goddamn Werewolf with ethereal visage and full enchanted gear while screaming goofy phrases, versus a paladin protecting his immediate surroundings, for example), but that's a pipe dream.

Overall, what I expect to end up happening is people criticizing this change not for the right reasons, and for the benefit to go away of FINALLY, people being given what they deserve for adding to the setting, especially in Western Barovia, simply because we do not like the mishandled time-gate mechanic. It should change.

God willing, I hope you are not some poor sod who's like, level 5, and just wanted to travel to the camp and beyond to see what lies otherwise in the module, or did so for IC reasons.

...
If I, a lone player, wanted to roleplay at myself, I would simply load a singleplayer instance.

Sometimes people want to meet up with their friends and play the game, just as much as they want to meet up and also enjoy eachother's company in roleplay. There must be a better solution than timegating people. Experienced players have played and seen the same road hundreds of times, and just like Newly Misted roleplay, it becomes obnoxious. Yes, obviously, appeal to whoever you travel with if you aren't alone, and react ICly to things, engage newer players, but sometimes, people are simply focused on getting to a locale to roleplay, which is the purpose of the server, or just play with friends.

Again, it's something that must be considered. Player enjoyment.

Well, go to Hell too!

But more seriously, it sounds like you are very interested in convenience, which is far from what Ravenloft (or gothic horror) is about. Indeed, you have to constantly accept things not going your way and the entertainment not being lined up whenever you ask for it. But that is not a punishment, and frankly, to use your own phraseology, it's hilarious that you consider it as such.

Now to you and anyone else that find it tedious walking through those same mountains, valleys and open roads and feel that you've seen it all before, well - my friends - that's where the miracle of your own creative roleplay manages to still make it interesting. And to that, everything around here is secondary.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2022, 08:34:48 AM by Soren / Zarathustra217 »

ladylena

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2022, 08:37:46 AM »
I think this is perfect. But with the new elixir does the effect persist if you rest? It also encourages people to not travel at night
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Soren / Zarathustra217

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2022, 08:40:45 AM »
I think this is perfect. But with the new elixir does the effect persist if you rest? It also encourages people to not travel at night

Yes, well, at least it should - so if it doesn't, please file it as a bug report.

Also, as a general service message, these changes aren't loaded yet, but should be very soon . just look for the next server update message.

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2022, 08:40:53 AM »
...

Punishing players for simply wanting to travel, if they're lower levels, is a frankly hilarious continued example of PoTM continuing to deign timewasting as a gating mechanic to refuse people from doing... Whatever they actually want to do.

I understand that this is a hot button topic and there are several devs/DMs that fought with spear and tooth to actually even get THIS change alone, which is depressing as it is, but the truth of the matter is that roleplay experience, minor or not, should've been available regardless of zone with no time-wasting mechanics behind it. Imagine, me, as a full time worker, simply wanting to go dungeon with my friends, but I had logged out in the Mist Camp. It's night-time? What's that, I am limited on time and just actually want to dungeon with my friends in my free-time?

No, go to Hell, as a nicer, more PG-13 explicative phrase would state.

I already got exhausted from PoTM with the resting mechanics alone over the wear of a year and a half playing, waiting continual irl half hours for people's timers if one mistake was made to ensure a vital member was not left dead in the water. I've seen that three hour rest timer change to as early as level 8, or wherever it was last at, where buffs don't even last nearly as long as the time before rest.

There must be a better solution than this, simply put. I am not encouraged to return and come online knowing at any point if I come online at the wrong time, I'm simply screwed for possibly an IRL hour plus because of my bad timing with the ingame day and night cycle. Yes, it is a step in the right direction, but that step is still taken into wet cement. Receiving minor experience simply for adding to the setting and trusting players to either report or have DMs handle disruptive player behaviors while working alongside AMPC/MPC's players would be the better alternative (it should be obvious case closed to tell a player to knock off chasing a goddamn Werewolf with ethereal visage and full enchanted gear while screaming goofy phrases, versus a paladin protecting his immediate surroundings, for example), but that's a pipe dream.

Overall, what I expect to end up happening is people criticizing this change not for the right reasons, and for the benefit to go away of FINALLY, people being given what they deserve for adding to the setting, especially in Western Barovia, simply because we do not like the mishandled time-gate mechanic. It should change.

God willing, I hope you are not some poor sod who's like, level 5, and just wanted to travel to the camp and beyond to see what lies otherwise in the module, or did so for IC reasons.

...
If I, a lone player, wanted to roleplay at myself, I would simply load a singleplayer instance.

Sometimes people want to meet up with their friends and play the game, just as much as they want to meet up and also enjoy eachother's company in roleplay. There must be a better solution than timegating people. Experienced players have played and seen the same road hundreds of times, and just like Newly Misted roleplay, it becomes obnoxious. Yes, obviously, appeal to whoever you travel with if you aren't alone, and react ICly to things, engage newer players, but sometimes, people are simply focused on getting to a locale to roleplay, which is the purpose of the server, or just play with friends.

Again, it's something that must be considered. Player enjoyment.

Well, go to Hell too!

But more seriously, it sounds like you are very interested in convenience, which is far from what Ravenloft (or gothic horror) is about. Indeed, you have to constantly accept things not going your way and the entertainment not being lined up whenever you ask for it. But that is not a punishment, and frankly, to use your own phraseology, it's hilarious that you consider it as such.

Now to you and anyone else that find it tedious walking through those same mountains, valleys and open roads and feel that you've seen it all before, well - my friends - that's where the miracle of your own creative roleplay manages to still make it interesting. And to that, everything around here is secondary.

Based Soren.

Gothic horror is about trials, yes; But is there a trial about awaiting in the Tser hub waiting for daytime when you've a group of people waiting on you for a roleplay? Not particularly. It's the only reason I raise this concern is the odd times it would happen (and perhaps not even odd, considering some people's logout habits). In the end, PoTM is a roleplay orientated server, yes, but it also facilitates a fascinating gameplay loop that several people obsess and enjoy. It's a hobby, and some people come on to play a video game, even if that video game acts as a collab narrative, I just advise that it's thought of that it could easily become people waiting around at this Tser night-time, idle, AFK, jut as many would engage and roleplay with those around them; Simply because they'd only intended to get to a destination and are now forced to wait for up to 30~ish minutes, depending.

The honesty in this reply is way more appreciated than anything else, though, I can tell you that. Good on you.
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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2022, 08:55:30 AM »
An inventive proposal to address a long-standing player complaint (whether justified or not): Will it work? Maybe not, but I can't see any great harm it will cause, even with the caveats raised.



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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #41 on: September 20, 2022, 08:58:06 AM »
...

Based Soren.

Gothic horror is about trials, yes; But is there a trial about awaiting in the Tser hub waiting for daytime when you've a group of people waiting on you for a roleplay? Not particularly. It's the only reason I raise this concern is the odd times it would happen (and perhaps not even odd, considering some people's logout habits). In the end, PoTM is a roleplay orientated server, yes, but it also facilitates a fascinating gameplay loop that several people obsess and enjoy. It's a hobby, and some people come on to play a video game, even if that video game acts as a collab narrative, I just advise that it's thought of that it could easily become people waiting around at this Tser night-time, idle, AFK, jut as many would engage and roleplay with those around them; Simply because they'd only intended to get to a destination and are now forced to wait for up to 30~ish minutes, depending.

The honesty in this reply is way more appreciated than anything else, though, I can tell you that. Good on you.

Well it's not that I don't see where you are coming from, but as with so much else, it is also a matter of compromise. Sitting on your own staring blindly into the wall is of course rather pointless, but on the other hand, it is often the limits and inconveniences that set you in motion into exploring new paths, coming up with new ideas and discovering things you didn't know was there to discover. As a simple example, if you can't always just get to your friends, it compels you to interact more with those immediately around you. Perhaps you can find someone to share the road with?

Anyway, I think it may be a good idea to get some practical experience with the changes. As noted, it is experimental, meaning it is a work in progress and not final. We are not interested in just frustrating players and if it turns out that that is all it does, there's no point in keeping it. But it deserves - imo - to be experimented with.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2022, 09:04:13 AM by Soren / Zarathustra217 »

myrddraal

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #42 on: September 20, 2022, 09:21:25 AM »
it never been the issue that higher lvls didn't get rp xp in barovia.
it never been the issue that it was about reward.

the issue was fairness.
if i tell you, you get 1 currancy of something for an hour you didn't swear or wern't acting nice towards another human beeing in life.
but told you yea but it doesn't count when you enter the workplace.
then you'd feel swindled.
and that's how it felt.

we have several faction bases in barovia that cannot be moved elsewhere.
guards
vardo
drain
elves
dwarves.

these are all stuck there, doesn't mean they cannot travel, but they will always come back to the faction bases, so i am glad we are getting the same deal as the rest of the server now. (reduced but still something)



as for mab or the staff in general sticking to this.

- Do not collect crafting resources from lower level Barovia yourself. Buy them from players.

honestly why would i buy a carrot if i can grow it myself or get it with ease?
why would i get said carrot in a dangerous place that takes a lot more time and has a lot more danger?
it makes no sense irl it makes no sense ic.
humans take the easy path, it's what we somehow do.

The only groups that are really shafted out of those are dwarves and drain folks.  If elves want to be with elves, there is Sithicus.  Garda could transfer to VoB- when Krezk is open I usually see Vallaki guards there, Vardo..I don’t see why they couldn’t have a branch in vob made?  Granted I have never played RVT so I don’t know their lore intimately.  But if they have a port, krezk, Vallaki branch, idk why VoB is far fetched.  Even Drain folks could go to Ghastria or Blaustein though so really I think it’s more just dwarves who don’t have a different place to go.

Imo all this change will do is further isolate Rp to Vallaki.

ladylena

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #43 on: September 20, 2022, 09:28:39 AM »
I think this is perfect. But with the new elixir does the effect persist if you rest? It also encourages people to not travel at night

Yes, well, at least it should - so if it doesn't, please file it as a bug report.

Also, as a general service message, these changes aren't loaded yet, but should be very soon . just look for the next server update message.
Will do. Hopefully this will work and we wont and up with the mess from before the change was made in the first place.
I think those who are worried about the travelling from tser pool back are forgetting that there is the village near by which you can enter at night, and a slew of  dungeons that people from west barovia can travel east to meet you and a mew dungeon can be picked
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Myrza

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #44 on: September 20, 2022, 09:39:05 AM »
The only groups that are really shafted out of those are dwarves and drain folks.  If elves want to be with elves, there is Sithicus.  Garda could transfer to VoB- when Krezk is open I usually see Vallaki guards there, Vardo..I don’t see why they couldn’t have a branch in vob made?  Granted I have never played RVT so I don’t know their lore intimately.  But if they have a port, krezk, Vallaki branch, idk why VoB is far fetched.  Even Drain folks could go to Ghastria or Blaustein though so really I think it’s more just dwarves who don’t have a different place to go.

Imo all this change will do is further isolate Rp to Vallaki.

At this time there is no VoB garda and Krezk was open only for a week, likely won't be open until a DM has such a plot in the future and will be open only for a similar period of time.

Voclain

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #45 on: September 20, 2022, 10:18:32 AM »
My main problem with this, is that if you're someone who can play in bursts of time, who works and leads a busy scheduled life, a significant portion of your time could be spent waiting for a 45-minute night cycle to pass. The idea of limiting things to day/night cycles is always bad for people with real lives and schedules to keep, because it eats heavily into an already limited timeframe.

On the flip side, this wouldn't actually stop people from coming into Barovia for casual RP and then exiting to a Dungeon. It just means that they'd have to time their return just like anything else in Barovia's Day/Night cycle.

Absolutely. Travelling between Vallaki/Mist Camp is already an extraordinarily tedious endeavour. People already made a 5m+ trip to the mist wall only to realize they forgot to buy an elixir in the first place, for many, causing them to just log off until they mustered the will to spend another 5m+ trip all the way back to Tser, to then run 5m+ back to the mist wall for their eventual ~20m trip to Vallaki. All of which happens on a frequent basis for some characters, amplified if people don't have their save locations set in the right place when the server resets. I specifically made it a point to drop Vistani elixirs by the mist wall with many of my characters because I sympathized with those people so much.

I said in a previous thread of mine that this server was already time-gated to an almost painful extent. While I very much appreciate the RPXP changes, further increasing the time-gating of any part of the server is a very, very bad change. And to quote a previous user, 'punishing'.
Too many regrets. Lost chances – and with each one passing the less human we all became, and the deeper into the nightmare of power we all sank.

Dhelindria

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #46 on: September 20, 2022, 10:19:15 AM »
I am a Port player so this change doesn't really impact me. That said, I feel that what this new Vistani nighttime shut-down addition needs is some sort of a work-around to keep it from impacting players with limited playtime. Having things close down at night is nothing new, but there are work-arounds. Vallaki has ways to get into the city after the gates close if one knows where to look. Taking the ferry at Midway Haven is convenient, but people manage during the nights and the winter. VoB's gate close and lock, but there are guards who will open them - et cetera and so forth.

The previous posters who suggested a Mist Way point on the Vallaki-side of the barrier have the right idea. It doesn't have to be an easy method, but players should not be kept trapped anywhere as part of normal game play.

Chabxxu

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2022, 10:28:42 AM »
I think the RP change is great. Allowing people to continue leveling, even if at a lower rate, is very rewarding.

However the changes to the Mist Gate are a completly different topic/problem. It will only make it less convenient to come back to Vallaki, and means people who want to attend events in Vallaki will need to leave MC/Port earlier than planned, meaning these areas will lose even more RP. As someone who does RP in Vallaki, you'll be punished for leaving the area to go do a dungeon or get RP elsewhere and feel forced to wrap up some scenes to be able to come back to Vallaki during one of the allocated times.

Someone who logs off for the night in MC and comes back the next day at 4 PM IG and wants to go back to Vallaki will be forced to wait over 1h12 IRL to get back to that RP, because of that new mechanic. Is this really something the Dev team wants? I feel like this will kill some RP more than it's going to create any. It is likely going to mean people will not want to leave Vallaki because they will have trouble coming back in the time they have to play POTM.

Famous Seamus

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2022, 10:31:48 AM »
I think those who are worried about the travelling from tser pool back are forgetting that there is the village near by which you can enter at night, and a slew of  dungeons that people from west barovia can travel east to meet you and a mew dungeon can be picked

To begin, I want to highlight and offer a different side to this point of view, but I want to make it clear I'm not aiming all of this at you or trying to tear you (or what you say) down.

Reading through the comments on this thread, this doesn't seem to be the concern at all. The concern isn't, "What if I get stuck on this or that side of the Mist Wall and can't dungeon or get to a shelter?" It's, "Will I be stuck on the side of the Mist Wall where I don't want to be?"

Speaking as a player of a low-end high-level character who's basically permanently stationed in Vallaki and hasn't leveled up in a real-life year and a half, I'm not necessarily in favor of the change, and I would readily give up any RP XP in Western Barovia in exchange for not having to further try to flex my RL schedule around a hobby for the simple sake of making sure my character can make it through the Mist Wall at the appropriate time.

As BSR and others have pointed out above, for those with IRL obligations and limited play times, getting things done can already be a huge logistical challenge. It isn't that we don't want to RP along the road (as Soren recommends); I'm sure we would, because travel RP can be really, really fun. It's that some of us are already limited in what times we can log in or how long we can be logged in for and that trying to log in apart from those times can involve some really arduous RL logistical backflips. It would be really nice not to have to add yet another backflip for a hobby.

Furthermore, I appreciate the spirit intended behind the change, but I'm not sure it's going to mitigate the issue it's seeking to address. It's a short-term means to address a termless situation: if, for instance, a high-level character wants to go from Vallaki to the Mist Camp to dungeon, then return, they're going to do it if they're dedicated enough. Putting a time limit on the Mist Wall doesn't prevent them from returning; it only delays their return. If the idea is to prevent travel for XP grinding and, by extension, the influx of the higher-level characters who've just finished grinding, changing the hours at which they can return doesn't actually stop them from returning.

A high level is going to be in Western Barovia after dungeoning if they want to be. In terms of limiting their presence, what's it matter whether they arrive at 3 p.m. on Tuesday instead of 5 p.m.? On the off chance they miss a scene they could have influenced, sure, it matters. But in the larger picture, I'm not sure it does. They'll be there either way.

And to the point that other things on the server are gatekept by time, sure, they are, but not in the same way as this. If you need to craft, there are locations apart from Vallaki's crafting hall (which closes at night) if you know where to look for them. For nighttime merchants, there's the Night Market (or just a blatant disregard for curfew if that's your style). For nighttime travelers, there's the option to go as a group or get an escort to mitigate the risk of danger. Et cetera, et cetera. There are mechanical obstacles, yes, but there's almost always an option for a workaround.

In any case, I do appreciate the Team's willingness to listen to feedback and give the option for more XP gain. I'm just not confident that this is the best or most effective way to balance it.


Evendur

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Re: Comments and discussion revolving the roleplay XP change
« Reply #49 on: September 20, 2022, 10:37:13 AM »
I think the RP change is great. Allowing people to continue leveling, even if at a lower rate, is very rewarding.

However the changes to the Mist Gate are a completly different topic/problem. It will only make it less convenient to come back to Vallaki, and means people who want to attend events in Vallaki will need to leave MC/Port earlier than planned, meaning these areas will lose even more RP. As someone who does RP in Vallaki, you'll be punished for leaving the area to go do a dungeon or get RP elsewhere and feel forced to wrap up some scenes to be able to come back to Vallaki during one of the allocated times.

Someone who logs off for the night in MC and comes back the next day at 4 PM IG and wants to go back to Vallaki will be forced to wait over 1h12 IRL to get back to that RP, because of that new mechanic. Is this really something the Dev team wants? I feel like this will kill some RP more than it's going to create any. It is likely going to mean people will not want to leave Vallaki because they will have trouble coming back in the time they have to play POTM.

This sums it up perfectly.

Due to the ferry, people were already trying to travel there during the day, but anyone who had to run to Vallaki for an event or to meet up with their IC friends for RP could still so even after dark. Now, this wont be possible anymore and there will certainly be RP that wont be happening with this mechanic in place.

I know the stance from the team is often that things need to be inconvenient for both character and player and perhaps there is some truth to that, but this is a ooc inconvenience most of all and we dont need even more of those.