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Author Topic: Maison d’Abbatage - Feedback Thread  (Read 547 times)

CosmicRay

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Maison d’Abbatage - Feedback Thread
« on: May 13, 2022, 07:49:35 AM »
Please use this thread for the new PaL dungeon feedback. Bugs, typos, glitches, balance, loot - the lot.

RedMoney

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Re: Maison d’Abbatage - Feedback Thread
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2022, 05:59:24 PM »
Spoiler: show
Ran this dungeon with 20 people, was good fun.  Cramped spaces made it hard to maneuver a large group, which I thought was a good touch.  Good source of a thing that's been causing grief for the entire server population so A++ for that.  Lots of secret doors and environmental obstacles were a plus.  A nice loop dungeon to discourage dungeon logging with good monster variety highlighting a more rarely seen monster template.  Would love to see the thieving harlots in other areas upgraded to some slightly weaker versions of the daughters.  Overall great dungeon, well thought out and well crafted with the toolkit.


*Hard to talk about balance in that situation

Madame Trousers Son

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Re: Maison d’Abbatage - Feedback Thread
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2022, 06:02:21 PM »
Some of the lock DCs were incredibly high. Are keys supposed to drop? It could have been lost in the chaos but we didn't find any.
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apeppertoo

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Re: Maison d’Abbatage - Feedback Thread
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2022, 06:07:43 PM »
Spoiler: show
If you try to backtrack, the door leading downstairs is not possible to access - and that's on a slightly smaller than default female human.

The will saves to avoid fear ignore mind blank, which is pretty punishing for ASF that lasts a few minutes.
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Zyemeth

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Re: Maison d’Abbatage - Feedback Thread
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2022, 10:07:39 PM »
Spoiler: show
New dungeon is pretty interesting story and theme wise. Maybe suggest that not every spider drops lootable silk bags? It makes navigation tricky when clicking. Could do like five silk glands dropping from the stronger spiders or something. (Like the Black Shiny Spider) instead of every translucent spider. Also I got shoved through the wall by the last door when someone opened the final gate for the safes at the end (which ported me to the entryway to the dungeon) and no one could open the door so I could not cast knock for people to unlock. Search DCs may be a bit too high also. 22 Search had me staring at walls for multiple minutes to reveal doors. The final lock DC was quite high for pretty low tier drops as well.

As stated above, the way back downstairs is too small for models to fit into to reach the transition and since I cannot find the door forward it forced me to escape via DLogging. Elf model here.

Final comment being that the "fear" effect will DC is a bit high. For any non Will primary char, it's still pretty high with fully enchanted saves to make. As previously stated, giving ASF from it is really rough for a DC that high.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2022, 11:31:01 PM by Zyemeth »

InMyDarkestHours

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Re: Maison d’Abbatage - Feedback Thread
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2022, 11:06:41 PM »
Great dungeon, had fun working it out. Couple of things, though bear in mind I was informed it wasn't considered "max spawn":

Spoiler: show
  • Indeed remove the translucent (or other small) spiders from dropping bags (glands/poison), perhaps add more of it to the Ettercaps or have cocoons
  • Lock DC for final safe is very high, for loot that appeared to be average like other cabinets. May wish to lower it a tad.

apeppertoo

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Re: Maison d’Abbatage - Feedback Thread
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2022, 11:34:53 PM »
Spoiler: show
Final comment being that the "fear" effect will DC is a bit high. For any non Will primary char, it's still pretty high with fully enchanted saves to make. As previously stated, giving ASF from it is really rough for a DC that high.


Spoiler: show
To add onto this. My character is a level 19 primary will save class with 10 wis. I failed every will save for this effect. I would agree that the DC is pretty high.
Mariah Parsons

CosmicRay

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Re: Maison d’Abbatage - Feedback Thread
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2022, 03:03:37 AM »
I will:

- Shave a couple numbers off Lock and Search DCs across the board. The safe in the office does have a key, but you'll have to look for that elsewhere. That's why it's OL is so high. I might also drop a hint somewhere in the dungeon that a safe combination exists.

- Move the transition down to the top of the stairs, that'll make it easier to use.

- Either rebalance the effects or lower the DC of the horror checks, maybe both. 20% ASF might be a bit high, maybe 15% would be better. I'll pobably bump the AB penalty up as well.

- Have a think about the spider silk situation. There's no easy way to make the components occasionally drop. I did consider filling the place with spider silk resource nodes instead of having the spiders drop it. That would result in a net reduction of silk resource, but would make the running of the dungeon smoother (if poison was removed as a drop too). A combination of placeable nodes and more silk on the ettercaps may be ideal.

- Have a think about making the closing of the dungeon loop clearer, probably by dropping the DC of the final secret door (to exit) trivial.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2022, 03:06:41 AM by CosmicRay »

apeppertoo

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Re: Maison d’Abbatage - Feedback Thread
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2022, 10:55:55 AM »
- Have a think about the spider silk situation. There's no easy way to make the components occasionally drop. I did consider filling the place with spider silk resource nodes instead of having the spiders drop it. That would result in a net reduction of silk resource, but would make the running of the dungeon smoother (if poison was removed as a drop too). A combination of placeable nodes and more silk on the ettercaps may be ideal.

As someone who needs the resources, I'd prefer the situation be left as-is than anything that would result in a reduction of gains. In my experience the thing hurting navigation was other players, not spider corpses.
Mariah Parsons

ZSRunner

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Re: Maison d’Abbatage - Feedback Thread
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2022, 01:11:52 PM »
- Have a think about the spider silk situation. There's no easy way to make the components occasionally drop. I did consider filling the place with spider silk resource nodes instead of having the spiders drop it. That would result in a net reduction of silk resource, but would make the running of the dungeon smoother (if poison was removed as a drop too). A combination of placeable nodes and more silk on the ettercaps may be ideal.

As someone who needs the resources, I'd prefer the situation be left as-is than anything that would result in a reduction of gains. In my experience the thing hurting navigation was other players, not spider corpses.

+1

Resources for tailoring are already a bit more difficult to come by.

Ryujin

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Re: Maison d’Abbatage - Feedback Thread
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2022, 09:19:58 AM »
After running the dungeon I can say it's a great dungeon. Only a few things.

1. Some of the locks are -really- hard. Especially the safe one. (Though I hear there's a key or combination around somewhere)
2. The loot in the cabinets and dungeon itself felt... Meh. It seemed a bit disproportionate to the challenge.

Overall the dungeon was great, and it was fun to run however!
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Evendur

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Re: Maison d’Abbatage - Feedback Thread
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2022, 09:22:46 AM »
Very interesting and atmospheric dungeon, well done.

A few things to note:
Spoiler: show

We made it through with a rather large group of mid-high to high lvl characters and Im still not sure for what lvl range the place is designed (which can be a good thing)

The large number of small spiders makes things quite difficult at times, it's almost impossible to click on them to attack when a (single) group member is already in melee with them.
At the same time they add to the atmosphere, therefore they are good to have there.
Perhaps a solution would be to add a few larger ones as well. As mentioned I don't know the intended lvl range for the dungeon but I was thinking void spiders would add to the horror quite a bit (after all, we are here to make our characters suffer :))
Void Spiders would also fit perfectly into the place in my opinion. I was half expecting to have some jump me while going through those shadowy places.

The xp seemed to say that everyone up to lvl 20 was welcome there. Depending on the intended lvl, this should probably be adapted as well, either by making it more difficult or by capping xp for lvl >15

The crafting drops will mean that this place will soon be farmed to oblivion. If the place should provide those drops, perhaps it would be better to have a special kind of spider (possible a large one) that drops it instead of the small ones, as it did not help to have literally hundreds of bags on the ground when navigating.

The traps there do not require a (professional) tapper, which means this place will soon be soloed by single wizards, while nobody will want to take a trapper to this place, as its already cramped. The traps also did not seem to pose enough danger to make everyone wait for their removal. I think for the port area, most characters will be able to just take them on with high saves and wards.

The enemy casters did not get too much action as they were usually appearing right in front of the group. Perhaps those could be spawned further away, possibly with additional spiders in between them and the group/spawn trigger point. Maybe have a void spider protect a caster, so that one would have to choose between who to fight first. 
« Last Edit: May 15, 2022, 09:42:27 AM by Evendur »

Dardonas

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Re: Maison d’Abbatage - Feedback Thread
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2022, 07:20:02 PM »
Very interesting and atmospheric dungeon, well done.

A few things to note:
Spoiler: show

We made it through with a rather large group of mid-high to high lvl characters and Im still not sure for what lvl range the place is designed (which can be a good thing)

The large number of small spiders makes things quite difficult at times, it's almost impossible to click on them to attack when a (single) group member is already in melee with them.
At the same time they add to the atmosphere, therefore they are good to have there.
Perhaps a solution would be to add a few larger ones as well. As mentioned I don't know the intended lvl range for the dungeon but I was thinking void spiders would add to the horror quite a bit (after all, we are here to make our characters suffer :))
Void Spiders would also fit perfectly into the place in my opinion. I was half expecting to have some jump me while going through those shadowy places.

The xp seemed to say that everyone up to lvl 20 was welcome there. Depending on the intended lvl, this should probably be adapted as well, either by making it more difficult or by capping xp for lvl >15

The crafting drops will mean that this place will soon be farmed to oblivion. If the place should provide those drops, perhaps it would be better to have a special kind of spider (possible a large one) that drops it instead of the small ones, as it did not help to have literally hundreds of bags on the ground when navigating.

The traps there do not require a (professional) tapper, which means this place will soon be soloed by single wizards, while nobody will want to take a trapper to this place, as its already cramped. The traps also did not seem to pose enough danger to make everyone wait for their removal. I think for the port area, most characters will be able to just take them on with high saves and wards.

The enemy casters did not get too much action as they were usually appearing right in front of the group. Perhaps those could be spawned further away, possibly with additional spiders in between them and the group/spawn trigger point. Maybe have a void spider protect a caster, so that one would have to choose between who to fight first. 


The traps when I went there were pretty brutal.  I do not see a Wizard/Sorc soloing this place with ease.  Constant slow traps and places where there are fire traps.  As someone who tested it on the test server and also tested it live when it came out, a trapper is 100% required.

Evendur

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Re: Maison d’Abbatage - Feedback Thread
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2022, 07:39:46 PM »
The traps when I went there were pretty brutal.  I do not see a Wizard/Sorc soloing this place with ease.  Constant slow traps and places where there are fire traps.  As someone who tested it on the test server and also tested it live when it came out, a trapper is 100% required.

I will take another look at the effects when I get a chance. With the large group we had, the traps were often triggered without much consequence from what I could see.
Regarding the trapper requirement, I was referring to the traps DC which is never over 35, therefore anyone with disable traps can deal with those, including wizards.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2022, 07:42:33 PM by Evendur »

Bwpsycho

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Re: Maison d’Abbatage - Feedback Thread
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2022, 03:05:49 AM »
Spoiler: show
 


This door is near impossible to transition from upper floor to lower.
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CosmicRay

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Re: Maison d’Abbatage - Feedback Thread
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2022, 06:34:40 AM »
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This door is near impossible to transition from upper floor to lower.

Fix for that is waiting to be rolled-in.

Knight of Rhodes

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Re: Maison d’Abbatage - Feedback Thread
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2022, 07:28:44 AM »
Cosmic, this is one of the most aesthetically pleasing dungeons. Love it. 

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