Replacing Port RVT with the Bellegarde Trading Consortium

[EO]

For various reasons competing antagonistic factions don't work well on POTM. Firstly we don't quite have the playerbase to populate two extremely similar factions in terms of role, scope. Secondly, and more importantly, whenever we've had prolonged conflict between groups or factions, it has led to very ugly OOC problems. That's why we've had to shut down overtly antagonistic factions multiple times in the past.

Also, replacing or renaming won't really change much since the scope and nature of the faction would be very similar development-wise (though Bellegarde has more black magic, weird supernatural stuff). And in the end it's the players that make or break a faction.

[RedMoney]

Suppose we will see if I can fix all these problems you guys created in Port.  Thanks for setting the stage for me to have what's been nothing but interesting roleplay opportunities with the Port RVT~

[JustMonika]

One thing I think is worth noting that Bellegrade seems a much more inclusive faction concept than the RVT, who seem to appeal to a much narrower range of concepts.

[immasturgeon]

One thing I think is worth noting that Bellegrade seems a much more inclusive faction concept than the RVT, who seem to appeal to a much narrower range of concepts.

I think that is more a result of player self selection than actual exclusivity.

RVT has been home to wizards, monks, barbarians, weapon masters, fighters, sorcerers in addition to the standard looty mclooterson type classes. All of whom have been moderately to majorly successful, involved, and influential.

[slash]

I can't speak as to the experience of player RVT in Port as I have little experience with it. However, as a whole, the RVT really is not toothless in Port. However, Port is not Vallaki. The RVT adapts their methods to better serve their interests in a new environment. You might not often see assassinations and the roughing up of naysayers by the RVT in Port, but they flex their power in their own way. Throughout my entire tenure as a Gendarme the Port RVT has remained consistently a force to reckon with. They have a law firm in their pocket and it is laughably easy for any given RVT member to get a "get out of jail free" card because the organizations legal counsel shows up and makes it go away - and conversely, it requires Gendarmes to be extremely careful in how they actually deal with RVT members who have run counter to the law. There is a lot of "spy-vs-spy" going on in Port between the RVT and the other shady organizations that results in a lot of "if they do this because we did that, then we will do x y and z using the assets we've acquired previously." At least, that's my experience with the RVT: intense planning and playing the long con.

Now, whether any of this is reflected in Port RVT player experiences, I couldn't say. But it is there, in some capacity.

[JustMonika]

One thing I think is worth noting that Bellegrade seems a much more inclusive faction concept than the RVT, who seem to appeal to a much narrower range of concepts.

I think that is more a result of player self selection than actual exclusivity.

RVT has been home to wizards, monks, barbarians, weapon masters, fighters, sorcerers in addition to the standard looty mclooterson type classes. All of whom have been moderately to majorly successful, involved, and influential.

I wasn't refering to classes, but concepts.

My understanding the RVT is pretty exclusively tied to Barovian natives. Bellegrade would emply Dementliuse nobles, commoners, outlander sellswords, and foreign agents - Basically everyone.

[immasturgeon]

I wasn't refering to classes, but concepts.

My understanding the RVT is pretty exclusively tied to Barovian natives. Bellegrade would emply Dementliuse nobles, commoners, outlander sellswords, and foreign agents - Basically everyone.

Gotcha, perhaps it is meant to be, but in practice it is most certainly not been the case. Them rascals come from far and wide to do legitimate business.

[FinalHeaven]

One thing I think is worth noting that Bellegrade seems a much more inclusive faction concept than the RVT, who seem to appeal to a much narrower range of concepts.

I think that is more a result of player self selection than actual exclusivity.

RVT has been home to wizards, monks, barbarians, weapon masters, fighters, sorcerers in addition to the standard looty mclooterson type classes. All of whom have been moderately to majorly successful, involved, and influential.

I wasn't refering to classes, but concepts.

My understanding the RVT is pretty exclusively tied to Barovian natives. Bellegrade would emply Dementliuse nobles, commoners, outlander sellswords, and foreign agents - Basically everyone.

The Port-a-Lucine RVT has historically employed many different races including Tieflings and other caliban, to vary levels of public exposure.  The RVT's nature as a Barovian organization is rooted in a different kind of lore than simply being a Barovian native, even in Barovia itself.  In fact when you get into the deeper concepts of the RVT, their link to Barovia is solely tied to the ultimate personal goal of their highest leader.  The merchanting and criminal enterprises are just a secondary wing to aid in that goal, and can span broad regions because of it.

I can't speak as to the experience of player RVT in Port as I have little experience with it. However, as a whole, the RVT really is not toothless in Port. However, Port is not Vallaki. The RVT adapts their methods to better serve their interests in a new environment. You might not often see assassinations and the roughing up of naysayers by the RVT in Port, but they flex their power in their own way. Throughout my entire tenure as a Gendarme the Port RVT has remained consistently a force to reckon with. They have a law firm in their pocket and it is laughably easy for any given RVT member to get a "get out of jail free" card because the organizations legal counsel shows up and makes it go away - and conversely, it requires Gendarmes to be extremely careful in how they actually deal with RVT members who have run counter to the law. There is a lot of "spy-vs-spy" going on in Port between the RVT and the other shady organizations that results in a lot of "if they do this because we did that, then we will do x y and z using the assets we've acquired previously." At least, that's my experience with the RVT: intense planning and playing the long con.

Now, whether any of this is reflected in Port RVT player experiences, I couldn't say. But it is there, in some capacity.

This has certainly been my experience and I think this is a good fit for Port-a-Lucine groups overall.

[Willy]

My understanding the RVT is pretty exclusively tied to Barovian natives. Bellegrade would emply Dementliuse nobles, commoners, outlander sellswords, and foreign agents - Basically everyone.

Strong disagreement on this. Current RVT roster has people from all kinds of places. Outlanders, Caliban, people from other nations of the core... The organization in itself might be Barovian, but there is no exclusion of certain people going on.

[Cyber Viking]

My understanding the RVT is pretty exclusively tied to Barovian natives. Bellegrade would emply Dementliuse nobles, commoners, outlander sellswords, and foreign agents - Basically everyone.

Strong disagreement on this. Current RVT roster has people from all kinds of places. Outlanders, Caliban, people from other nations of the core... The organization in itself might be Barovian, but there is no exclusion of certain people going on.

From previous experience within the RVT I can say for certain that the race of a character plays a part when choosing faction leadership / representation roles. Depending on how well you play the character this can be over looked but the organization is Barovian at its core and will act upon their cannon views.

[Willy]

From previous experience within the RVT I can say for certain that the race of a character plays a part when choosing faction leadership / representation roles. Depending on how well you play the character this can be over looked but the organization is Barovian at its core and will act upon their cannon views.

Not really true. As I said, Barovian in its core - yes. But not allowing certain races or outlanders or Caliban to take part? No. And regarding high positions: I can take a look in the old posts and logs in the RVT forum right now and see that there have been plenty of non-Barovians and even non-Humans in leadership positions even years ago already, and I could say more about the current leadership positions to strengthen that point. But considering that you are working against the RVT and/or antagonize it on multiple characters, I just see another metagaming issue looming on the horizon, so I will abstain from further commenting on that.

There is also not really a point to try and get this discussion heated up again, as it was made clear that the Bellegarde is not supposed to be a supported faction. Kinda odd of you to dig it up again in the first place. See:

The Bellegarde Trading Consortium was never meant to be a supported faction, just a tool for DM plot that was created long ago during the server's early days, much like the guard faction in Krezk during the war 6-7 years ago. We really do not have plans to make it a supported faction at the moment.

That's dissapointing to hear, and I think highlights one of the server weaknesses in the awkward split of storytelling responsibilities between the DM Team and the Devolopers.

The Dev and DM actually works closely together to make things happen, like the Bellegarde for example, but nor the DM nor the Dev team never intended this faction to remain as a supported faction in the end.

For various reasons competing antagonistic factions don't work well on POTM. Firstly we don't quite have the playerbase to populate two extremely similar factions in terms of role, scope. Secondly, and more importantly, whenever we've had prolonged conflict between groups or factions, it has led to very ugly OOC problems. That's why we've had to shut down overtly antagonistic factions multiple times in the past.

Also, replacing or renaming won't really change much since the scope and nature of the faction would be very similar development-wise (though Bellegarde has more black magic, weird supernatural stuff). And in the end it's the players that make or break a faction.

[Cyber Viking]

Not really true. As I said, Barovian in its core - yes. But not allowing certain races or outlanders or Caliban to take part? No. And regarding high positions: I can take a look in the old posts and logs in the RVT forum right now and see that there have been plenty of non-Barovians and even non-Humans in leadership positions even years ago already, and I could say more about the current leadership positions to strengthen that point. But considering that you are working against the RVT and/or antagonize it on multiple characters, I just see another metagaming issue looming on the horizon, so I will abstain from further commenting on that.

I can not talk about a currently open character and the situations that this particular character experienced in a supported faction. I do stand by my earlier post.

I CAN however address the issue you are accusing me of.
I do not have any PC's at current that are working against the RVT.
I do not actively antagonise RVT members nor the faction as a whole, In fact the reality is the exact opposite.
I do have one PC that had one instance of PvP with an RVT member, This however was not due to meta-gaming nor OOC reasons. This was a pure IC interaction that was justified by IC actions and consequences.

Please refrain from throwing out accusations such as this without speaking to me as a player first.

[DM Brimstone]

Let’s not make any posts that call each other out and let’s keep everything respectful please. Thank you!

[Willy]

These are not accusations - but Brim has a point. If you wish to clarify something, you can shoot me a message.

[dutchy]

port branch was created by players when the rvt was simply a huge in potm terms faction.

removing it would discredit the work done by those players back then.

rvt has been weak for years, both branches, mainly due to what EO pointed out they where antagonistic and had a hand in every dirty little secret and deal, a lot of players cried moaned and so on when they got "hit" by the rvt, and this started the decline.


with the current era of potm i am very unsure rvt play is even still possible, but you never know!
who knows a player pops up with the right attitude the right set of brains to tackle the issue an finds a way to make it work. (i certainly hope so)

[Day Old Bread]

port branch was created by players when the rvt was simply a huge in potm terms faction.

removing it would discredit the work done by those players back then.

rvt has been weak for years, both branches, mainly due to what EO pointed out they where antagonistic and had a hand in every dirty little secret and deal, a lot of players cried moaned and so on when they got "hit" by the rvt, and this started the decline.


with the current era of potm i am very unsure rvt play is even still possible, but you never know!
who knows a player pops up with the right attitude the right set of brains to tackle the issue an finds a way to make it work. (i certainly hope so)

I think a big problem is that it is widely known that the RVT is not just a trading company and they are the dirty dealers of the setting (from a supported faction standpoint) I imagine it'd take a hard reset to go back to them being just "simple traders" who deal in clandestine activities, good bad or otherwise.

[RedMoney]

Could a mod shut this topic down please? Nothing constructive is happening here.

[dutchy]

port branch was created by players when the rvt was simply a huge in potm terms faction.

removing it would discredit the work done by those players back then.

rvt has been weak for years, both branches, mainly due to what EO pointed out they where antagonistic and had a hand in every dirty little secret and deal, a lot of players cried moaned and so on when they got "hit" by the rvt, and this started the decline.


with the current era of potm i am very unsure rvt play is even still possible, but you never know!
who knows a player pops up with the right attitude the right set of brains to tackle the issue an finds a way to make it work. (i certainly hope so)

I think a big problem is that it is widely known that the RVT is not just a trading company and they are the dirty dealers of the setting (from a supported faction standpoint) I imagine it'd take a hard reset to go back to them being just "simple traders" who deal in clandestine activities, good bad or otherwise.

has been known since the rvt was active tbh, i cannot remember an instance since i started playing here that it was unknown what the rvt did or does.

it's kinda like a tell sell commercial, we collectivly know we get a bad product, yet ppl still buy it.