You have been taken by the Mists

Author Topic: Can We Make Gothic Earth Application Only?  (Read 1904 times)

eddymakaveli

  • New to the Mists
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Can We Make Gothic Earth Application Only?
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2021, 12:57:09 PM »
I, for one, love being a black person and logging in to see Portuguese Slavers going around and asking darker skinned folks if they’re slaves- along with Russian characters smoking and talking about communism. It makes for a great immersive experience and really motivates me to roleplay here, and advocate it as a place for others to come and storyteller. 10/10, very cool and awesome.

Famous Seamus

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 617
Re: Can We Make Gothic Earth Application Only?
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2021, 01:01:01 PM »
Hi, everyone. Current/most recent head of the Christian faction here (not a Gothic Earth character, but plays adjacent to them).

I have mixed feelings about this proposal. As you might imagine, I've had the chance to interact with a pretty broad palette of GE characters--and not all of them Christians. (Some people just see the tabard and assume you're from GE too.) I've seen the great, the good, the unpleasant, and the very bad.

EXPERIENCE

If I can, I'd like to start by sharing my experience in hopes that it might illuminate my position. First, I will say that I very much disliked the idea of GE characters when I joined the server. When I discovered there was actually a Christian faction, I determined I would keep my interactions with them to a minimum. Only when Vandryn had no good RP path forward besides joining the Christians (it was one of the only sensible options for IC reasons I won't get into) did I have him join the faction. Even then, I planned for it to be closure by way of membership--I was going to end him after just a few weeks. But then I saw how fascinating some of the GE characters' RP and flavor was, so I decided to hang around for a bit . . . and a bit . . . and a bit . . . and now I somehow lead the group I joined with every intention of quitting right away.

All that's to say, in my time with the group--overall, with some notable exceptions--the characters have tried to be somewhat delicate with the concerns mentioned in the OP's post. (The real-world religions aspect is kind of impossible to get around, obviously, but even then, most [not all, but most] of the characters I've interacted with have tried to be delicate and keep the public proselytizing to a minimum--mainly when it comes up in the RP.) We have a zero-tolerance OOC policy against racism, sexism, homophobia, and the like. At least since I've had anything remotely resembling a leadership role, players in our group who choose to engage with these subjects IC know that they can receive coaching and reminders on how to handle them in a way that's not disruptive. We obviously don't encourage those themes, but if they're going to come up because of a character's background, it's best that they do without harm.

Even so, there are several players who've indicated to me that they're uncomfortable playing around the group. I can respect that. There are some players who hate the group or view it as an unwelcome presence or think that our RP is less valid or what-have-you. I can understand that too.

And yet, there are also players who critique that our characters aren't more racist or sexist or homophobic or xenophobic because it's not "historically accurate" or "true" enough. I've gotten or seen comments to the flavor of "Your half-elf should never have been able to become leader," "You shouldn't be ecumenical," "You shouldn't have women knights," "You shouldn't admit demi-humans," "Your demi-humans are a joke," "You can't have a woman in a leadership role," "Your RP is a joke," "You're half-a**ing everything," and "Have you even read the Bible?" All of this is extremely discouraging and can make playing very unfun. It baffles me that people want such negative themes to be so integral to the group for the sake of "total historical accuracy" (possibly forgetting completely that characters and people grow and change with their circumstances and may learn to set such entrenched viewpoints aside the longer they're in the mists).

That's a long-winded way of saying that Gothic Earth RP feels like a bit of a catch-22 situation. There are critics on both sides. I've met them.

POSITION

There have been some great GE characters across my time on the server--both inside and outside the faction. There have been some poor ones too. Owing to Vandryn's position, I have often been one of the first people they meet, and in some cases, I have to do quite a bit of coaching to remind them of the GE restrictions. Many times, the poorly executed, highly offensive, or caricaturish GE characters quit or disappear after a few days or weeks. That's for the best, in my opinion.

Having said that, it seems like the NCE offers an opportunity to make such characters because everyone knows that they're probably going to be throwaways that get closured or shelved at the end of the event. Maybe they feel like there's no point in doing a ton of research or backgrounding for someone who's not going to last for more than 10 days. I don't know, but it's unfortunate.

I would be in favor of increasing or improving expectations for GE characters, but I'm not sure an application is the best way to do that. As others have pointed out, it's already "hard mode"; I sense that adding an app would kill the character concept entirely for most players (especially given the number of GE characters who get shelved because their players underestimated the challenge).

What about adding an RP manifesto that explicitly lays out the expectations and responsibilities of a GE character? All players of GE characters would be required to read and agree to this upon character creation. I don't know if it's possible, but maybe even require a passcode á la the password mechanism that GE players must enter before their characters can move--and bury the passcode somewhere in the manifesto so they actually have to read that.

What about adding a forum section for GE characters and those who play adjacent to them? It could be a place to post resources, discuss RP aspects and subjects, and get help when uncertain. We have something like that in the Christian faction Discord, which has been handy from time to time. Not sure if there would be an easy way to require said GE players to join such a subforum, but if there is, it might be useful.

EDIT: And, of course, I want to clarify that I in no way support or endorse bigotry or themes that make others feel attacked or unwelcome. We're all here to have fun. While I don't fully agree with the OP's proposal, I do see and recognize the validity in the concerns that led to it.

Sorry for the book. Forgive any typos--typed on my phone, as usual.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2021, 01:21:33 PM by Famous Seamus »


bloodless

  • The Underworld
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1926
  • ?
Re: Can We Make Gothic Earth Application Only?
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2021, 01:05:31 PM »
However, I do agree the setting should be app-locked.  Too many people don't really understand how the language barrier for gothic earthers, either what it is or how bad of a thing they just got themselves into.  I think an application would actually really help keep people from falling into this trap.  It doesn't even have to be a 'real' application.  More of a "Are you REALLY sure?"
+1

Ghost Love Score

  • Outlander
  • **
  • Posts: 77
Re: Can We Make Gothic Earth Application Only?
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2021, 01:12:46 PM »
Personally I'd like to see this. There's enough problematic, racist, toxic, troll Gothic Earth characters as is on the server. Most of which do a poor job of portraying anything remotely accurate to their period, or contribute anything meaningful when it comes to the general RP and setting of the server. Don't need anymore of that. I just find it in very poor taste and the whole thing rather jarring.

Just during this NCE alone I've noticed some really (excuse my wording) 'shitty' Gothic Earth characters. Without going into details, I feel bad for the people having to suffer in the presence of these individuals.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2021, 01:27:59 PM by Ghost Love Score »
Evil watches, evil waits, goodness stumbles, evil takes.

Cassius

  • Developers
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 4432
Re: Can We Make Gothic Earth Application Only?
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2021, 01:33:49 PM »
A lot of what's being brought to light here sounds more like trolling and player irresponsibility (plus these should be brought to the attention of the DM team if they are problematic) rather than a setting issue, nor are these problems described above exclusive to Gothic Earth in particular. If anything most of these problems from Gothic Earth concepts are some people RPing ahistorical caricatures that tend to also be very anachronistic (if they are not trolling).

We've had throughout my time being here issues with players RPing from the FR, GE, Witcher, Warhammer, Warcraft, etc. but especially the Ravenloft settings. The latter is far more common with tropes, stereotypes and borderline "memey" behaviour that happens both within NCE and outside of it, but it is often far more exaggerated when NCE is taking place since people have the tendency of making more throwaway characters, therefore giving the room for less nuanced concepts in favor of more outlandish ones (that often tend to get out of hand).

We've had issues with Barovians acting like far-right nationalists, Falkovnians acting like Nazis, Dementlieu characters being played as silly French stereotypes, etc. most of which are not really lore appropriate nor make any sense. Some might argue it is a result of the setting being problematic in its portrayal (like Gothic Earth), but to be blunt it's more of a flop that comes from the player more than anything else. Would we put apps behind these concepts as well? They can potentially be played offensively/inaccurately by the wrong person.

Bottom line, if the character's portrayal is appropriate to the environment they are from, then it's fine. If not and they are being problematic, then it will be corrected. We have done so in the past and will continue to do so.

Maffa

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1110
Re: Can We Make Gothic Earth Application Only?
« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2021, 01:36:40 PM »
I was about to write that if one has problems with a character RPing thats not something that can be blocked by an application and that requires a DM intervention, and what has arrived? A DM :)


Character List:

Marph - Closured
Marius Rucescu - Closured
Romeo Lascaris - Closured

Laur

  • The Underworld
  • Outlander
  • **
  • Posts: 59
Re: Can We Make Gothic Earth Application Only?
« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2021, 01:56:57 PM »
I find it exhausting that there are characters on the server that are completely reduced to an obvious stereotype, it is damaging and has no place on the server.

But Gothic Earth characters aren't the only ones prone to being reductive stereotypes. I think DM moderation might have to do the uncomfortable thing and just be very proactive about certain player surges like NCEs, no matter if you make Gothic Earth app only or not. Someone can easily (and people have) play offensive stereotypes 'from' native settings, like Falkovnia or Souragne.

Cyber Viking

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 468
  • Discord: Cyber Viking#6572
Re: Can We Make Gothic Earth Application Only?
« Reply #32 on: December 31, 2021, 01:57:52 PM »
Before players start throwing around the words toxic. I personally dislike with a passion characters bringing IRL issues in to a fantasy setting. But I am much more open minded to what those would consider rasist, bigoted or homophobic and really consider their character and if it fits.

The year is now 777 in game that's 8th century IRL, as a reference 780's to 800's was where the TV show vikings season 1 started. So keep in mind character view points of that time period. Or if we take from the official ruling on the ravenloft wiki Gothic earth is in the 1650's, this was filled with many political and social views which would be considered racist, homophobic and bigoted.

Bottom line if some one is trolling report it to a DM (because you can tell when someone is trolling). Otherwise these were vastly different time periods in history with vastly different views and going back to my previous statement of not liking IRL issues in a fantasy setting. The thing that happens more often than these trolls are modern century views and ideals making their way into the medieval - Renaissance setting.

Reminder that some of these views you can flip to have some fun in a positive way with for example my PC Colin has a "Taboo" fetish for tieflings.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2021, 02:49:02 PM by Cyber Viking »


herkles

  • Society of the Erudite
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 7311
Re: Can We Make Gothic Earth Application Only?
« Reply #33 on: December 31, 2021, 02:03:35 PM »
It should be noted that there are several Real World Religions that are part of canon Ravenloft: Kemeticism/Egyptian Polytheism in the Akiri pantheon, like wise there are the various Indian Deities worshiped in Sri Raji, The various Celtic deities are worshiped by the Tepestani and Forfarians. Just to name a few examples.


Forte

  • The Underworld
  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
  • He is a king whom emperors have served.
Re: Can We Make Gothic Earth Application Only?
« Reply #34 on: December 31, 2021, 02:06:14 PM »
Just because certain... 'ideologies' are historically accurate, doesn't mean that they need to be brought into the game- and neither do distasteful stereotypes that people have a habit of projecting when playing certain GE characters.

Stuff like this is just about right.

I have openly seen more than two Gothic concepts in this NCE alone clearly orientated to not be immersive at all and intentionally be offensive to anyone that is clearly non-white. I don’t play Ravenloft to see a bunch of blatantly racist stuff— It’s the same reason I hesitate to play a character who goes by different pronouns in even Port a Lucine, because I really, really have no desire to deal with IC and OOC bigotry in my goddamn fantasy game.

Get it apped. If people want to play it, as a group, they’ll play it. Or just play homebrew.
Dzenifér Uralkodó - HATEFUL

Laur

  • The Underworld
  • Outlander
  • **
  • Posts: 59
Re: Can We Make Gothic Earth Application Only?
« Reply #35 on: December 31, 2021, 02:08:49 PM »
Before players start throwing around the words toxic. I personally dislike with a passion characters bringing IRL issues in to a fantasy setting. But I am much more open minded to what those would consider rasist, bigoted or homophobic and really consider their character and if it fits.

The year is now 777 in game that's 8th century IRL, as a reference 780's to 800's was where the TV show vikings season 1 started. So keep in mind character view points of that time period. Or if we take from the official ruling on the ravenloft wiki Gothic earth is in the 1890's, this was filled with many political and social views which would be considered racist, homophobic and bigoted.

Bottom line if some one is trolling report it to a DM (because you can tell when someone is trolling). Otherwise these were vastly different time periods in history with vastly different views and going back to my previous statement of not liking IRL issues in a fantasy setting. The thing that happens more often than these trolls are modern century views and ideals making their way into the medieval - Renaissance setting.

Just because people in the past were racist/sexist/homophobic and things like slavery or regular domestic violence against women were considered appropriate at one time, doesn't mean it's something people want to be consistently subjected to on their play pretend game when they are just trying to portray a character with a similar identity to their own.

Allowing a certain level of that sort of behavior is going to alienate people from playing anything on the server altogether.

Neuwwwo

  • Society of the Erudite
  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 189
  • (aphanisis)
Re: Can We Make Gothic Earth Application Only?
« Reply #36 on: December 31, 2021, 02:23:51 PM »
I, for one, love being a black person and logging in to see Portuguese Slavers going around and asking darker skinned folks if they’re slaves- along with Russian characters smoking and talking about communism. It makes for a great immersive experience and really motivates me to roleplay here, and advocate it as a place for others to come and storyteller. 10/10, very cool and awesome.

God, a thousand times this. They've given me a mild headache or two. However...

I would like to suggest another approach as a community. While I do not know what it should or even would entirely look like, I want to suggest that instead of locking a setting behind an application we discuss how we can use dialogue and communication to create the change we would like to see.

I have certainly encountered players in game and let them know via PMs when I find certain dialogue, rhetoric, or characterizations to be ill fitting of the RP that we intend to portray, or when something is immersion breaking or even harmful. I attempt to do so in the most respectful way possible because I believe that communication is what solves and improves such things, not necessarily always app locking or creating more red tape.

[...] Culture is created through action, and most times this action has the most benefit when it comes through healthy dialogue that is inclusive to all, especially those that we want to share such a change in perspective with. How do we include players who some feel might be breaking the rules or pushing the spirit of the RP that is intended in this conversation?

[...] What about adding an RP manifesto that explicitly lays out the expectations and responsibilities of a GE character? All players of GE characters would be required to read and agree to this upon character creation. I don't know if it's possible, but maybe even require a passcode á la the password mechanism that GE players must enter before their characters can move--and bury the passcode somewhere in the manifesto so they actually have to read that.

A combination of these things is likely the better solution, if we don't want to give the DMs more applications to deal with. There's always the chance that they won't work, but the DMs already do the work of policing disruptive RP once it's reported.
Inactive unless through PMs: Clementine Morisway

Cyber Viking

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 468
  • Discord: Cyber Viking#6572
Re: Can We Make Gothic Earth Application Only?
« Reply #37 on: December 31, 2021, 02:25:19 PM »
Just because people in the past were racist/sexist/homophobic and things like slavery or regular domestic violence against women were considered appropriate at one time, doesn't mean it's something people want to be consistently subjected to on their play pretend game when they are just trying to portray a character with a similar identity to their own.

Allowing a certain level of that sort of behavior is going to alienate people from playing anything on the server altogether.

But you are now saying that players who play a character who fit the setting, lore and environment of this pretend play world should not play that character because your Real world self has and issue with these ideals and views and its going to cause in game tension purely because you put alot of yourself into your PC?

I would say that that is more immersion breaking than anything.

And besides if your PC doesnt like that character then dont RP with them, or engage in hostile RP. Its your character and in the server where there are 100's pc PC's you are bound to not like a few. Some PC's are just plain Evil.


JustMonika

  • Society of the Erudite
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1886
Re: Can We Make Gothic Earth Application Only?
« Reply #38 on: December 31, 2021, 02:29:34 PM »
I should note if you have seen offensive conduct in game, or have issues with another player, the correct avenues of approch are either to report it to the DM Team, or to seek medation through the CC.

I'm not judging the content of Gothic Earth Roleplay this NCE, just strongly affirming a forum topic is not the place to critique it.


Ghost Love Score

  • Outlander
  • **
  • Posts: 77
Re: Can We Make Gothic Earth Application Only?
« Reply #39 on: December 31, 2021, 02:29:52 PM »
The thing is, the Ravenloft setting as a whole is basically built entirely upon stereotypes, cultures and history pulled from the IRL world. It is also a setting that in my own personal opinion hasn't aged very well over the years. In the end however, we all have to remember that this is a videogame, a role-playing server based on the Ravenloft setting.

People and fans of the setting; D&D nerds or otherwise, (should) come here to explore horrific dungeons, immerse themselves in a grim world filled with gloom, and develop amazing stories with other players. I can only hope that people come on here in hopes of wanting to contribute in some meaningful fashion. If you want to play a xenophobic Barovian, then by all means do that! But I plead you to do your research; consult the rules, and all the information that is available to you here on the forums, prior to making the character. The same goes for any other setting, within or outside of the Ravenloft universe.

It's a grim world -- but we should also remember that behind each character is a real person, and we should all be respectful of one another. We're all just here to write nerdy stories and have fun after all! I repeat: there are smart and educated ways of portraying accurate and believable characters, despite them perhaps having "strong" opinions, upbringings, faiths, or certain views when it comes to sensitive topics, without coming across as tacky or offensive.

Alas, I've said my peace for the sake of not derailing the topic any further. I do apologize if I said something wrong or managed to offend anyone, I'm not great with words sometimes.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2021, 02:37:36 PM by Ghost Love Score »
Evil watches, evil waits, goodness stumbles, evil takes.

Forte

  • The Underworld
  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
  • He is a king whom emperors have served.
Re: Can We Make Gothic Earth Application Only?
« Reply #40 on: December 31, 2021, 02:30:51 PM »
Just because people in the past were racist/sexist/homophobic and things like slavery or regular domestic violence against women were considered appropriate at one time, doesn't mean it's something people want to be consistently subjected to on their play pretend game when they are just trying to portray a character with a similar identity to their own.

Allowing a certain level of that sort of behavior is going to alienate people from playing anything on the server altogether.

But you are now saying that players who play a character who fit the setting, lore and environment of this pretend play world should not play that character because your Real world self has and issue with these ideals and views and its going to cause in game tension purely because you put alot of yourself into your PC?

I would say that that is more immersion breaking than anything.

And besides if your PC doesnt like that character then dont RP with them, or engage in hostile RP. Its your character and in the server where there are 100's pc PC's you are bound to not like a few. Some PC's are just plain Evil.

No, instead it should be a common courtesy not to bring real life bigotry to our fantasy roleplay game. No matter of supposed “dark elements” of its roleplay, I didn’t come here to hear slavers demand people of dark skin be enslaved. That’s terrible.

End of story.
Dzenifér Uralkodó - HATEFUL

Swan

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 218
  • 𝑱𝒖𝒔𝒕 𝒂𝒏𝒐𝒕𝒉𝒆𝒓 𝒔𝒕𝒓𝒂𝒏𝒈𝒆𝒓.
Re: Can We Make Gothic Earth Application Only?
« Reply #41 on: December 31, 2021, 02:33:38 PM »
Just because people in the past were racist/sexist/homophobic and things like slavery or regular domestic violence against women were considered appropriate at one time, doesn't mean it's something people want to be consistently subjected to on their play pretend game when they are just trying to portray a character with a similar identity to their own.

Allowing a certain level of that sort of behavior is going to alienate people from playing anything on the server altogether.

But you are now saying that players who play a character who fit the setting, lore and environment of this pretend play world should not play that character because your Real world self has and issue with these ideals and views and its going to cause in game tension purely because you put alot of yourself into your PC?

I would say that that is more immersion breaking than anything.

And besides if your PC doesnt like that character then dont RP with them, or engage in hostile RP. Its your character and in the server where there are 100's pc PC's you are bound to not like a few. Some PC's are just plain Evil.

No, instead it should be a common courtesy not to bring real life bigotry to our fantasy roleplay game. No matter of supposed “dark elements” of its roleplay, I didn’t come here to hear slavers demand people of dark skin be enslaved. That’s terrible.

End of story.
This. The more and more I read the responses in this thread, the more it seems like people are simply trying to cling to a thinly veiled excuse to roleplay legitimate real-world bigotry. It's worrying.

Neuwwwo

  • Society of the Erudite
  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 189
  • (aphanisis)
Re: Can We Make Gothic Earth Application Only?
« Reply #42 on: December 31, 2021, 02:34:30 PM »
But you are now saying that players who play a character who fit the setting, lore and environment of this pretend play world should not play that character because your Real world self has and issue with these ideals and views and its going to cause in game tension purely because you put alot of yourself into your PC?

You're not going to get very far with this line of thought. Bottom line is that the OOC, real life enjoyment of a videogame goes above made-up IC considerations. To have fun, people have to feel safe and comfortable.

No, instead it should be a common courtesy not to bring real life bigotry to our fantasy roleplay game. No matter of supposed “dark elements” of its roleplay, I didn’t come here to hear slavers demand people of dark skin be enslaved. That’s terrible.

It's a grim world -- but we should also remember that behind each character is a real person. I repeat: there are smart and educated ways of portraying accurate and believable characters, despite them perhaps having "strong" opinions, upbringings, faiths, or certain views when it comes to sensitive topics.

+1.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2021, 02:36:05 PM by Neuwwwo »
Inactive unless through PMs: Clementine Morisway

Phantomswake

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 155
Re: Can We Make Gothic Earth Application Only?
« Reply #43 on: December 31, 2021, 02:41:30 PM »
Absolutely not for applications for GE characters or any characters apps period.

I would say respectfully, it's just in my opinion gating and work that is not needed, and second It's not productive criticizing my art or anyone else for that matter (we all have to start somewhere). 

Roleplay is a type of artform, if you like it good, if you don't well that's good too, find another art form that is more to your taste, and vote with your participation. Your not forced to roleplay with anyone. (Obviously, caveat being that the setting allows and it's within the confines of the canvas)

Roleplay will also develop over time and it is constantly changing because the characters develop and change over time as well. Maybe a character starts out with a flaw and later that flaw goes away etc.

I have personally been told before in OOC that a particular didn't want to roleplay with my character (because of RL feelings), and well I have obliged them out of respect. No hard feelings you just walk away and find fun elsewhere.

The problem is only a problem when you make it personal, and if it's personal then take it to a DM.

JustMonika

  • Society of the Erudite
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1886
Re: Can We Make Gothic Earth Application Only?
« Reply #44 on: December 31, 2021, 02:44:35 PM »
It is worth noting that racism here on earth is about humans prejudging other humans because of their country of orgin or appearence.

Racism in Ravenloft, and FR is based around entirely different species prejudging entirely different species because of traits those races posses. Eg, 'Drow are typically 'Evil'.'

[I feel compelled to note here that while Drow have quite literally black skin, this has nothing what so ever do with ther predisposition to evil, nor is there some sort of FR association that darker skin colours make you more evil-like. No more than, for example that Drow have white hair means there's some sort of grudge against white haired people. Drow are disliked because they are drow, not because of their skin colour.]

This is based in facts, in the real world no skin colour or point of orgin makes you more predisposed to be 'Evil'. Indeed, you could make a compelling case 'Evil' as it exists in FR doesn't exist in the real world. FR Evil, is a real tangible thing, that can be detected, warded against, personified, and is embodied by 100% real deities.

The two things, while similar at a glance, are fundementally different.


Also while racism is a regrettable part of not only our history, but also our present day, I feel it would be a saddening state of affairs if that was what you felt needed to be a major part of your characters story to draw upon it. There's so much /more/ to our history than that.

Lastly, it is important to stress this;

- Characters may come from the Gothic Earth setting presented in the Ravenloft spin-off Masque of the Red Death, but no later than 1650 AD.


Not 1890, as noted earlier in this thread.

Cyber Viking

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 468
  • Discord: Cyber Viking#6572
Re: Can We Make Gothic Earth Application Only?
« Reply #45 on: December 31, 2021, 02:46:14 PM »
No, instead it should be a common courtesy not to bring real life bigotry to our fantasy roleplay game. No matter of supposed “dark elements” of its roleplay, I didn’t come here to hear slavers demand people of dark skin be enslaved. That’s terrible.

End of story.

I would counter that and it would be setting, lore and common courtesy to not bring modern real life anti bigotry into the fantasy game.
I came here to be on edge, scared and horrified in this horror setting where if I play an Evil slaver i expect to see push back from other characters who do not like that, or creates more roleplay with other like minded characters from say Hazlan or Harakir this creates roleplay and also creates a story where example bad guy pc gets a fitting end to their story and good guy liberator gets a great story to tell of how they defeated a known menace.

The counter argument to this is that if you have an issue with slavery you really arent going to like Hazlan, or racisim you really arent going to like Barovia. Bear in mind that is not just PC's that are bigoted. DM played NPC's have chosen Humans over Elves or Dwarves to lead factions because its in the setting.

Blatant racism and continued abuse of PC's for nothing more than shear "oh its what my PC would do" Yea sure thats terrible. But if your using your PC's faults to create a story and generate roleplay around their Evil ideals. Thats just good roleplay and creates stories for you to invest in and be passionate about.


Cyber Viking

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 468
  • Discord: Cyber Viking#6572
Re: Can We Make Gothic Earth Application Only?
« Reply #46 on: December 31, 2021, 02:48:33 PM »


- Characters may come from the Gothic Earth setting presented in the Ravenloft spin-off Masque of the Red Death, but no later than 1650 AD.


Thanks Monika thats my bad for not fully researching into gothic earth (havent really played a gothic earth PC so didnt know exactly just saw it on the wiki page) Have updated my post with correct date time
« Last Edit: December 31, 2021, 02:50:19 PM by Cyber Viking »


EO

  • Assistant Head DM/Developer
  • Head DMs
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 22404
  • The one and only, the one everyone wants to be!
Re: Can We Make Gothic Earth Application Only?
« Reply #47 on: December 31, 2021, 02:53:12 PM »
Alright, going to lock this since it's veered into personal attacks and discussing specific cases, against the moderators' warnings. Remember that someone disagreeing with you does not make them a bad person.

Our stance has been made clear already that we don't plan to lock Gothic Earth characters behind applications and if you think some are playing characters purposely to enact their own real world prejudices and to be offensive, you should report them with screenshots to the DM team so they can look into it.