Adding a way to tell if someone is examining you

[Adnihilo]

I was thnking rather then having a way to get information about a character without any risk I think it might be a good idea to add a message like "insert name is staring at you" when you are being examined and your character is aware of their pressence. Which would give people a chance to react to that kind of scrutiny. Because as it stands right now someone could just spam the examin tool off cool-down without worry.

[Errdil]

I don't like the idea of this being an automatic thing, because I like the idea that my character can be a bit more subtle about watching people, not necessarily staring at them openly. And I don't like going into stealth as the only way of not being obvious.
Perhaps, as compromise, the examined character could get a spot roll in return, to see if they notice someone paying particular attention to them? I'm not sure what this "counter-spot" would be rolled against, however.

[zDark Shadowz]

If you can do the math to check if someone looking at you is within your field of vision of 120* up to a certain distance based on your position and directional facing alongside any line of sight obstacles into script format, go for it.

How do you tell if they are looking or "looking" on top of that though? Their spot checks are realizations and deductions they make in their own mind. Is there a mind-reading feat? Or it would it be a counter skill to Spot the spotter to realize they have spotted you, and would they get the ability to know they have been spotted spotting you, and do you get a check to see if you spotted that they spotted you spotting them as they spotted you?

[Dardonas]

Realistically, it can be sometimes be pretty obvious when people are eyeballing you.  I think it'd create RP if there was a system in place for the examine tool that was something like... CHA (examiner) vs. WIS (the examined) each time someone did the examine tool on you, or maybe something else of that nature.  And if that check failed, you'd get a message in your combat log.

[Mona]

Realistically, it can be sometimes be pretty obvious when people are eyeballing you.  I think it'd create RP if there was a system in place for the examine tool that was something like... CHA (examiner) vs. WIS (the examined) each time someone did the examine tool on you, or maybe something else of that nature.  And if that check failed, you'd get a message in your combat log.

Hmm, I don’t know about CHA for the examiner; it should be WIS vs. WIS since awareness checks are usually so — or is the CHA check there to try and conceal one’s stare? That might then be difficult to implement because it would depend on whether the examiner actually IS trying to be subtle or not. I dunno, I just woke up.

[ObsidianOrb]

I'm not really convinced that someone staring at you is something you would be aware of, they could be behind you.

[Shoes]

Think this could be a neat thing to have, even if the base of it was "You feel like you're being watched" When someone examines you, or like Dardonas' said, it could create some interesting RP if there was a system in place, having some sort of DC check of some type to see if there was more to "You feel like you're being watched" or nothing if you fail.

[Vissy]

The only problem is it might genuinely clutter your inbox way too much.

[zDark Shadowz]

[Talking to someone]
"You feel like you're being watched. You feel like you're being watched. You feel like you're being watched."

[Tell to other person]// could you stop trying to Spot my disguise you metagamer?
[Other person] //Its not me whatre you on about//[begins actually using spot]
[Sneak in the corner spying on them both]//I'll figure out his identity eventually
[Invisible person also spying on them both]//I know this is X & X but I need the combat log proof before I can kill

[You feel like you are being watched intensifies]
[Disguised person begins casting Spot spells & equipping gear due to meta info]

The calculations to decide that you can see who you can reasonably see looking back at you AND notice they are looking at you more than normal AND their ability to notice you noticing them and that chain reaction all have equal necessity.

Or its not worth doing the math cause it really is OOC info.

If it was P&P you really would have the exchange in D&D with the DM if you tried to pull the stunt of "Do I notice him noticing me?" "Roll spot. You do." [Rolls dice] "He notices that you noticed him noticing you."

[APorg]

Perhaps a better solution would be: if character A isn't facing character B (in other words, B isn't in A's front arc), then A suffers a Spot debuff on Examine Object attempts.

This would incentivise people to turn their front arcs towards the people they're examining, which is a clue as to whom they're Examining.

I don't know if it's technically feasible, though. Just an idea.

[Anarcoplayba]

Also, why is it assumed that examining one person is actively trying to pierce a disguise? I'm looking for a wizard to party, I look for someone who speaks very clearly, etc.

And sometimes the perception that something is wrong is not deliberate and poignant, but a tiny slip that made you realize. E.g. Inglorious Basterds.

[KovosDatch]

To be honest, this entire idea AND ways to implement it sound way too close to metagaming for me. If you -know- that someone is watching you (and it doesn't matter who), you are going to behave a whole lot differently.

[Swan]

On a server where metagaming is already a common issue, I don't think this would be a healthy addition to the server.

[Lion El'Jonson]

On a server where metagaming is already a common issue, I don't think this would be a healthy addition to the server.

+1. This would be an unnecessary change and not necessarily a positive one.

[Adnihilo]

I don't see how being able to react to someone observing you is metagaming. It seems far more metagamy to for example use examin on someone when youre not even close and still being able to tell someone is disguised or not.

[APorg]

You have to think in terms of game mechanics.

The Spot check are effectively the active resistance to the Disguise skill. https://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/disguise.htm

There's no risk defined in the above system, because that sort of question in practice would really be adjudicated by a DM (and in PnP, a perfect place for the use of Sense Motive). Indeed trying to define a system to Spot the Spotter sounds like an overcomplication for what would really be a situational call anyway. In other words, blowing up a subsystem instead of addressing the root system is risking making the tail wag the dog.

As someone who plays both Spotters and Disguisers, I do think there's room to tweak the Disguise system in favour of Disguisers (e.g. lengthen the Examine cooldown, give a Spot debuff to Examine outside of the Spotter's front arc), though. Recognize Imposter at the moment feels more like a RP/overkill choice than a strategic one. Though the last time the question of cooldown time, the Dev team said they were happy with things as they were.

[Day Old Bread]

If you're in disguise, wouldn't you assume everyone is trying to spot you?

I play a character that assumes she is being watched all the time even though she is never disguised.  I would think that someone hiding via disguise would be even more aware of this.  I don't think there needs to be any check to notice whether or not someone is looking at you.

[Anarcoplayba]

Loose thought:

By this logic, someone sneaking should have a way to know they were perceived.

[Kaninchen]

If you're in disguise, wouldn't you assume everyone is trying to spot you?

I play a character that assumes she is being watched all the time even though she is never disguised.  I would think that someone hiding via disguise would be even more aware of this.  I don't think there needs to be any check to notice whether or not someone is looking at you.

Spirits watching you rob their tomb "There goes that pesky smol person stealing mah stuff again!

Imo, it's up to the spotter to react if they wish to give it away. Similar to if they can clearly witness a sneak, but choose not to react. A good spotter/RPer will do something, with either emotes, or their dialogue to make it clear they know the gig is up, if that's how they wish to RP at the time.

[Novius]

I do not see how it makes sense to actively be informed about being examined by someone.

And even if it did, there should not be any difference between being observed and being examined by the examine tool.
In conclusion, if there were a message to appear whenever someone is looking at you (Be that with the intention of spotting a disguise, guessing your skills, keeping an eye on the surrounding people in general or just looking in the direction of another character) this message should appear in every single one of those cases.

Assuming there is a way to implement this mechanically, it would mean a lot of messages.
Most of my characters are either curious or paranoid, which means that if you are standing in my characters sight, you will get this message from me ... every few seconds!

Standing in a busy place like the outskirts or mist camp would therefore lead to several "you are being observed messages" per second...
It would not make sense to only get this message when the examine tool is used and not in those other cases where someone is observing a character.

[Cyber Viking]

Loose thought:

By this logic, someone sneaking should have a way to know they were perceived.

Makes a good point.
I both agree and disagree with this thread.
As a player i would love to know if im being examined.
But yeah i would act differently ICly if my PC knew he was being eyeballed which is fair, but again trying to get the mechanic to rule out stealth, invis and position of players is going to be tough.
Cant rightly say that "you are being examined by persons unknown", But in the same turn you will know that if you can see someone eyeballing you its obvious.
This idea may be too difficult to implement, it will be abused im sure and the logs will flood, not to mention it brings cause for how stealth PCs should know when they get spotted.
   

[MAB77]

Though an interesting suggestion, it is best not to overcomplicate things. Practical use for this is limited and it's therefore not worth the server resources cost.

In my experience, players intently starring at another in a way that would be obvious usually make it known to the other players around by emoting, and/or will engage you in roleplay after examining you if they so desire.

One should always expect that she or he will be examined whenever in a crowd anyway, and it's already kind of obvious whenever another player is facing your character.

[ZanathKariashi]

usually you'd make a spot check to notice if someone appears to be watching you, and then a sense motive to tell if it was a coincidence or they seem to actually be observing you intently with purpose.

i.e. you'd make an automatic hidden spot check when examined but it only informs of someone intently observing if you make a Sense Motive check (DC 20) (or a raw wisdom check since we don't currently have any skills tied into/serving the purpose of Sense motive).

the Spot check would probably about ~25 realistically. (15 base, 5 for distraction/unaware, +1 per 10ft for to about 50ft away)