Author Topic: It's Tinkering Time  (Read 1310 times)

Kaninchen

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Re: It's Tinkering Time
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2021, 10:58:46 AM »
The problem comes in characters who have a negative Tumble score, which would be most heavily armored characters.

I would call this a build choice, and not a dungeon balance issue. 

Dardonas

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Re: It's Tinkering Time
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2021, 02:08:17 PM »
Ah yes... I remember now.  The biggest issue with the Wasp Tower is that the Wasp Drones in the tower have touch attacks that easily hit lower level PCs.  These attacks do 10-18 acid damage, not to say on a crit, and they attack immediately as you load in.  This means you can walk into the tower and take 30-60 or so acid damage instantly and a guaranteed death if you're too low level or have no acid DR.

I changed that a while go, the drones are now on a trigger and won't be there the moment you load the area.

I still was blasted on my PC for close to 30 acid damage within a few moments of going inside on my PC last night.  The touch attacks are really brutal and lower level PCs struggle to have the AC to avoid those, as well as a stark lack of concealment.  The ones at range also continue to spam those attacks.  Is it possible to give the touch attacks maybe a set number of charges?

CosmicRay

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Re: It's Tinkering Time
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2021, 03:47:32 PM »
Ah yes... I remember now.  The biggest issue with the Wasp Tower is that the Wasp Drones in the tower have touch attacks that easily hit lower level PCs.  These attacks do 10-18 acid damage, not to say on a crit, and they attack immediately as you load in.  This means you can walk into the tower and take 30-60 or so acid damage instantly and a guaranteed death if you're too low level or have no acid DR.

I changed that a while go, the drones are now on a trigger and won't be there the moment you load the area.

I still was blasted on my PC for close to 30 acid damage within a few moments of going inside on my PC last night.  The touch attacks are really brutal and lower level PCs struggle to have the AC to avoid those, as well as a stark lack of concealment.  The ones at range also continue to spam those attacks.  Is it possible to give the touch attacks maybe a set number of charges?

I'll double check, but I'm pretty sure they're only at 1/per. Again, I'll put a pin in this as I just took the poison off 2/3 of the drones. If the dungeon overall remains too challenging, I can do a similar thing for the acid attacks.

Vissy

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Re: It's Tinkering Time
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2022, 06:29:59 PM »
Minor necro to add to the feedback on Blightwood:

On the whole, the Blightwood as far as I know is mostly ninjalooted and very rarely visited as an actual group (when it's not a bunch of high levels doing RP). The dungeon could use some revamping in the variety of challenges it offers, as well, and in general in its interactivity and immersiveness. Mechanically speaking first, right now, one needs to have:

- Poison immunity
- Lesser mind blanks for the entire party
- Negative energy protection for everyone
- And all the other regular wards on top of that

In order to complete the dungeon reliably. I feel like the dungeon could either do with removing the mind-affecting traps or tweaking its themes in another way that lessens the need for such a well-balanced and large party to venture into it, at its intended level range (which is presumably somewhere between 6 and 13).

Alternatively, and this I feel is a better choice, one could add more stops into the dungeon, with perhaps elven NPCs from Degannwy offering key supplies at 'safe zones' inbetween the different hostile areas, such as negative energy protection, restorations to deal with accumulated ability drain and so on, including perhaps some dialogue choices to talk about the dungeon itself and to warn about dangers if need be. This extends to Degannwy itself: I feel like there is a very noticeable and immersion-breaking lack of dialogue and flavour on the Blightwood from Degannwy NPCs currently. The dungeon in general could use more interactivity with Degannwy, as the Blightwood is an existential threat to the grove the elves would be very familiar with. This would necessitate some development work on Degannwy itself to facilitate that, I know.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 06:33:15 PM by Vissy »
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SardineTheAncestor

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Re: It's Tinkering Time
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2022, 06:39:55 PM »
Both here and the ghoul dungeon people want excess of clarity or mind blank, which is unrealistic, it has to be worked around or you have to go out of your way. That's what I mean when I say, in the ghoul dungeon, I would rather be using perhaps one to three cure light wounds and/or regen light wounds per melee party member, over spamming clarities, which most herbalists at this level probably can't make, though I guess buying them in bulk is probably viable.

I haven't had a chance to try the Blightwood yet, but just for some perspective in terms of consumable use in level 7-9 dungeons (unless that dungeon is higher level than my guess), most level 8s are not buying dreamcatchers in bulk to do dungeons that are regarded as especially challenging, when many dungeons at this level can be completed just by autoattacking with a more basic buff suite. The loot and XP are probably better in these dungeons but that's just my guess. Cosmic's dungeons are noticeably more difficult and require players to pay a bit more attention but I would say 4/5 times I came out of them, the reward was more than worth it and the dungeons themselves weren't overly long like some others. I dunno if I would want to see that change. I feel it makes those dungeons feel extra special.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 06:41:40 PM by SardineTheAncestor »
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SoggyBiscuit

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Re: It's Tinkering Time
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2022, 01:40:40 AM »
I feel that in the case of Blightwood the rewards for clearing dungeons if you find the secret rooms (which the search seems a tad to high for its intended level) is just not really worth it. I just don't see a party of level 8-10s making any profit if there having to use dream catchers and other consumable like remove poison and disease potions.
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Eruheran

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Re: It's Tinkering Time
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2022, 03:27:34 AM »
Please for the love of all that is unholy, lower the tumble DC checks required on the last two logs in the Blightwood dungeon.

If you don't have a min-maxed character (maybe you're not a min-maxer) with tumble, even cross classed, the last two logs are just more of an annoyance than anything else. You're flipping a coin each time you try to cross them, and you have to take this 50/50 chance twice in order to reach the 'end point'.

Your only hope of a slightly easier time is to get polymorphed, since even if you remove your armor, and put on gear that provides tumble skill (like lesser boots of tumbling), it won't show up in the check unless you have at least 1 base rank in tumble already.

I recently had an experience where for the purpose of an rp scene, I had to attempt getting across these logs 10 times to be able to just get over them to the end. In reality, I could have had such bad luck that I might have just never gotten across.

One log would have been better, but since that'd require changing the dungeon assets around, I'd appreciate (and I'm sure others would as well) the lowering the DC just for those two end logs.

Edit: Either that or change the fail-result of the second log to being knocked down on the other side, like in the temple of thoth dungeon.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 05:42:45 AM by Eruheran »

Last Exit to Barovia

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Re: It's Tinkering Time
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2022, 04:04:41 AM »
I would like too see farmhouse appear at high spawn more often, but with perhaps it's loot table on that spawn decreased. I have made a habit of checking out this dungeon frequently out trying to encourage others to visit it at the appropriate level range, but I often find it missing the nuanced encounters, like either mini boss. I'm sure it gets over farmed, which is why I think lowering the loot of max spawn ( less flat gold maybe) and increasing the rate might allow more people to enjoy these challenges before quickly leaving the level range.

I would also second adding some npc who gives more insoght into blightwood. At the moment the npc who does talk about it doesn't give enough of a picture of how dangerous it is. When I first discovered it upon it's release (and being a newer player at the time) I walked right in and got corpsed by a trap before realizing where I really was. Based on its proximity to a low level zone, I'd be surprised this didn't happen more often if it weren't for the hub near it being nearly unused.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 04:08:15 AM by Last Exit to Barovia »
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Maffa

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Re: It's Tinkering Time
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2022, 04:35:07 AM »
on the topic of the flavour NPC, it would be useful also having someone in the fishermen lodge to refer to the wolf den next door... It can be either the innkeeper or a patron

EarlofEtheria

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Re: It's Tinkering Time
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2022, 09:16:14 PM »
On the topic of Blightwood, I like the area. It's dangerous, and unlike anything else you can explore (from how traps are designed, to the fey swamp aesthetic). I wish it wasn't in "Newbie Barovia" and could shine as the mid-high range challenge it is, or reward as well as what's under Dvergeheim for experience.

The tumble check to cross logs are inconsistent, perhaps instead they ought to be dexterity or strength checks like the jumps/cliffs in the Temple of Thoth with a danger immediately on the other side?

CosmicRay

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Re: It's Tinkering Time
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2022, 02:43:37 AM »
I will alter the Tumble DC slightly to give a better than evens chance of passing with zero investment. I'll also make a change to Feybells and update some Degannwy dialogue.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2022, 02:48:09 AM by CosmicRay »