It's Tinkering Time

[DM Erebus]

Hello Prisoners. Its Christmas.
Please let me know any bugs, tweaks or balance changes you think any of the following dungeons need:

Wasp Tower
Berez Ghouls
Blaustein Shipwreck
Blightwood
Burned Farmhouse
Temple of Thoth

I might have time this festive season to make some tweaks and fixes.

Things Done:
Berez Wasps
- Adjusted spawn rate upwards. Removed poison sting from Irate and Enraged Wasp Drones. This should make poison less spammy.

Ghoul Cabin:
- Adjusted spawn rate upwards. Adjusted loot upwards. Adjusted CR for all enemy types upwards. Ghoul Bloaters will now hit less hard.

Shipwreck:
- Added Waterbreathing as a Feat to all enemy types, hopefully this will stop them drowning. Adjusted loot downwards.

Blightwood:
- Adjusted spawn rates upwards. Adjusted loot upwards. Adjusted CR types for the 'Forest Guardians' subpopulation. Reduced the total number of possible trap spawns and the frequency with which they appear. Made it clearer that projectile trap sources can be destroyed. Reduced the HP of projectile trap sources. Lowered CL of projectile trap Confusion considerably. Swapped Confusion for Poison from Poisoned Veela to reduce Confusion spam. Choking Cinder Fungus no longer use Yellow Mold Properties and therefore should not be indestructable anymore.

Burned Farmouse:
- Adjusted loot downwards. Adjusted spawn rates upwards.

Temple of Thoth:
- Reduced size of the stair traps to make disarming easier. Changed VFX in the final chamber to be less strobe-like.

Variable Mists Spawn
- Possible temporary fix for the empty mists problem whilst further debugging is ongoing.

[Drekavac]

Hey Cosmic!

Aside from Thoth (which has a good rate), they could do with a higher rate of spawn than what they are initially set so that they can be more frequently dungeoned. The cap changes make it so that low spawn only really affects people who play off-peak hours. In the Temple of Thoth in the penultimate room with the giant thunderstorm mob the first-floor trap on the stairs is very finicky to disable without stepping on it beforehand and if that could be adjusted it would be baller.

I do not know if this is the case, but I believe the Berez Ghouls do not give that much experience, but overall is a well designed and fun little dungeon, but I could be off point on the experience, too. I haven't tried the Blightwood or Farmhouse enough to really comment. The Wasp dungeon is pretty tough for the level the encounter is unless one has a druid in the party or a source of poison protection, but I am less certain what to do for balance there other than to make their EXP worth more or to lower the challenge slightly on the wasps.

Thoth is perhaps my favourite dungeon in the module and I know we appreciate the work you've put into all of these!

[Dardonas]

I think the thing about Berez ghouls is that it doesn’t give much experience while also having challenging enemies that hit extremely hard (those bloated ghouls or whatever they’re called).  Loot might also could use a touchup.

I believe the last NCEs have had tons of people hitting wasps after they were toned down a bit, but the poison immunity ward is still crucial unless you’re high fortitude.  Loot is fine I believe, I wanna say I saw some okay stuff coming out of there last time I was around doing it. XP gains seemed on point, I remember doing it a few times after NCE ended last Halloween.

[Vissy]

The Blightwood could probably do without the traps. It already takes a druid or two to get through the entire dungeon (and it's a long one). In general, it could use more incentives to go in there. I think something that would make the dungeon a lot more appealing would be simply removing the traps, however (including the plants that cast Acid Fog if triggered).

[zDark Shadowz]

Its not on the list but the first trap when doing the temple of sobek thats tended to by hotep is a square that is slightly too large to comfortably walk past after the trap has been detected, resulting in many people still triggering the trap even though they can see it is there, and despite making attempts to grind against the wall to go around it.

Considering when the trap is triggered it creates an object that is unwalkable, and forces people back to where they were... if the trap trigger could just be trimmed down a few pixels on the walkways on either side so that a characters' hitbox can more easily fit past given the curves of the walls it would be immensely appreciated.

Or, a secret door passage that goes around it with a slightly higher DC for detection than the trap would work too.

[Favee]

The light beams in Thoth obscure any character PC, or NPC models.  This is such a tiny thing that doesnt really matter, but I wanted to bring it up.

In the new Port underbelly there are some sunbeams / godrays that do not obscure models.  I'm not sure how difficult it would be to adapt them.

[cooachlyfe]

Shipwreck loot is fine, if anything maybe tone down hag loot.

[JayJay]

Shipwreck loot is fine, leave hags alone, tone down the light effects on Thoth for our fellows who are not so inclined with rapidly flashing lights.

[Dardonas]

I don't think Shipwreck should be dropping Black Rose Cloaks or, in abundance, Greater Amulets of Mask on top of tons of other loot of the same tier in the same run.  Hags need their loot tables turned down from what it was, but I think they're in an okay spot now that they aren't really seeming to drop really rare things consistently like canes and the rare materials as of late.

If anything, places like Sithicus need their tables updated to be dropping stuff like Black Rose Cloaks/Iron Martyrs and less Rods of Frost.  As it stands now Shipwreck has better Sithicus drop rates than Sithicus does.  If the other dungeons are hit—and Shipwreck loot definitely needs to be slapped down a tad, let's be real, it is made trivial with an archer's belt—then something needs to drop some better loot.  Aboleth could use a nice loot table upgrade.

[Death]

As someone who played a pc who was able to go after hags fairly consistently, I think they're in a fine place right now.

[SardineTheAncestor]

The burnt farmhouse is still a great boost to new characters but maybe spawn rates could be increased and loot toned down so people don't go solo it when they're well out of the intended level range. It's far more rewarding to do that than go headhunting for bandits, for example, since it's so close to the outskirts where so many people cling.

I can't remember the last time I did the ghoul dungeon but it was a pretty memorable experience. It could do with a real end boss or maybe a nastier final encounter. But that's just my personal preference. Other than that, I think the bleeding damage should be changed to magical so ghostly visage doesn't block it. That goes for that mechanic in general wherever it is found.

A while ago I suggested some kind of humanoid enemy in the wasp tower, some kind of mummified/zombified victim that is the same type of enemy as the fungal humanoids in Har'Akir. Could be cool to see.

The dungeons you made are some of my favourites and I hope they won't have to sacrifice anything about their cool themes & good but not overwhelming challenge if they do receive changes.

[Revenant]

Thankfully I'm pretty sure changing the damage of bleeding to magical would require scripting in a custom DoT, which would probably both not be lightweight and be out of the scope of the dungeon. I say thankfully because it would render that dungeon so difficult for its intended level range that nobody would do it. Saveless stacking magic damage ticks is lethal incredibly quickly and you'd burn a cleric's spellbook worth of slots on the first pack alone.

Last I was informed, Blightwood still has a problem with borderline unkillable fungi. I've stopped going there since, so I haven't had a chance to test it personally recently.

Most of the other stuff is fine. Maybe some touchups to the Farmhouse's spawn rate, I've never once seen the contraption.

[SardineTheAncestor]

Thankfully I'm pretty sure changing the damage of bleeding to magical would require scripting in a custom DoT, which would probably both not be lightweight and be out of the scope of the dungeon. I say thankfully because it would render that dungeon so difficult for its intended level range that nobody would do it. Saveless stacking magic damage ticks is lethal incredibly quickly and you'd burn a cleric's spellbook worth of slots on the first pack alone.

Maybe just a matter of personal taste, but if it's already so much trouble that most people don't bother, adjusting the bleeding damage to be more of a big deal and tuning the other threats down so it's overall a bit more manageable doesn't sound so bad to me. That or seeing the dungeon reward a bit more experience might help it see more traffic. As of now it's just an NCE MPC lair.

I have never seen a party level 5 and under attempt this so any sacred healing cleric or paladin would be invaluable here even if not entirely necessary. Potions are a thing too. Based on the AB and AC of the enemies there, I'm guessing this dungeon was made for levels 7 to 9 on average, and it's not impossible to get a decent amount of cure light wounds potions just to stop bleeding.

I dunno, I like when the threats in dungeons are varied, right now most dungeons are just a matter of becoming crit immune or there about, then autopiloting through. Sometimes you see the rare area denial spell or death spell but people have found more or less common ways to become immune to those. Damage over time is different and cool but too easy to become immune to.

But if it is impossible to change the damage type then oh well.

[Vissy]

Yes, the fungi in Blightwood are still borderline immortal. They're resistant to every damage type, including radiant and magical. The only way to reliably kill them is to spam extremely powerful fire evocations at them, which for the intended level-range, is somewhat impractical. It's already hard enough finding a balanced group, and Blightwood requires a very well-balanced group at the intended level range, without also needing a warmage along.

[Revenant]

Thankfully I'm pretty sure changing the damage of bleeding to magical would require scripting in a custom DoT, which would probably both not be lightweight and be out of the scope of the dungeon. I say thankfully because it would render that dungeon so difficult for its intended level range that nobody would do it. Saveless stacking magic damage ticks is lethal incredibly quickly and you'd burn a cleric's spellbook worth of slots on the first pack alone.

Maybe just a matter of personal taste, but if it's already so much trouble that most people don't bother, adjusting the bleeding damage to be more of a big deal and tuning the other threats down so it's overall a bit more manageable doesn't sound so bad to me. That or seeing the dungeon reward a bit more experience might help it see more traffic. As of now it's just an NCE MPC lair.

I have never seen a party level 5 and under attempt this so any sacred healing cleric or paladin would be invaluable here even if not entirely necessary. Potions are a thing too. Based on the AB and AC of the enemies there, I'm guessing this dungeon was made for levels 7 to 9 on average, and it's not impossible to get a decent amount of cure light wounds potions just to stop bleeding.

I dunno, I like when the threats in dungeons are varied, right now most dungeons are just a matter of becoming crit immune or there about, then autopiloting through. Sometimes you see the rare area denial spell or death spell but people have found more or less common ways to become immune to those. Damage over time is different and cool but too easy to become immune to.

But if it is impossible to change the damage type then oh well.

Yeah I won't harp on about this much longer, don't want to clutter the thread - but last NCE I actually did the Ghoul dungeon a fair few times, even with good spawn. The party was in the 5+ range, for sure. Not easy, but doable and seemingly rewarding enough.

As to bleeding in general: I'd like it more as a threat if talking and evaluating healing/incoming damage were a free action and enemies didn't come in packs of MMO size. Basically, if we were dealing with a PnP table instead of NWN with all its foibles. The ghoul dungeon comes with many more status debuffs beyond wounding, if I recall that was one of his primary goals with the warrens.

[Nezmith]

I will come out and say Dardonas's feedback is probably a bit outdated on the ghoul cabin if he did it last halloween NCE (over a year ago). I believe the dungeon was already made easier after that event. I've frequently gone to this dungeon and I believe the loot is more than sufficient as we are able to occasionally find up to level 8 scrolls, damage resistance belts, class spell slot items, and other high-priced items that range from 5000-20000 when player-vendored. The challenge I believe is actually a little weak (it's hovering around 'good') presently and could be increased with higher spawns as was done. The experience given for this dungeon is *perfect* as is.

The wasp tower, in my opinion, was fine as-is with one exemption. A lot of the more problematic things (walking into the tower and being 1-shot by acid spit) were already dealt with and that turned this into a swift and rather enjoyable dungeon. My biggest complaint was finding spawns where it seemed (literally) only one wasp spawned in the entire dungeon. From your current change notes, it seems that was adjusted so I will look forward to that change. I think the poison is something that, just like the spider caves, makes this a situational dungeon where you're forced to either have a druid, a wizard, or a cleric with the right domains (stoneskin/neutralize poison), and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. If we take away those aspects I'm thinking it'll trivialize the dungeon a bit too much.

As for the shipwreck, the few times I've gone I've never gotten great loot as it is. It's a high level dungeon with a great deal of risk without the right party, and I believe the potential for loot that it had is actually ideal for that type of dungeon. I don't believe it needs adjustment.

The Thoth temple is perfect challenge and loot-wise. I've had problems in the past where we couldn't find the keys for the doors (someone took them and ran off) and I believe if you could change the key nodes to a pile of rubble on the ground that gives a key per person (similar to the wererat den keys), that would be ideal. I will echo the problem that the rays seem to obscure vision at times and that can be a bit of difficulty. There are also issues where mobs will spawn or get stuck in walls which could be looked at. Otherwise, perfect dungeon.

The Blighted Woods I've been trying for a long while to get a group together for but it's one of those dungeons that seems *too* dependent on a multitude of classes. I'll try my hardest to get people to run through after the changes so we can see for ourselves.

The burned farmhouse wasn't good for 'loot' as it was, I thought it was fine. The only thing is the gold piles which tempted even higher levels up to 8 or so to run down and claim it for themselves.

Anyway, thanks for the fun dungeons and tinkering, I look forward to what does change going ahead.

[SardineTheAncestor]

As to bleeding in general: I'd like it more as a threat if talking and evaluating healing/incoming damage were a free action and enemies didn't come in packs of MMO size. Basically, if we were dealing with a PnP table instead of NWN with all its foibles. The ghoul dungeon comes with many more status debuffs beyond wounding, if I recall that was one of his primary goals with the warrens.

Regeneration is the secret sauce! No but I agree, it's not a big deal and not worth spamming the thread up, and there's enough uses for other consumables like clarity down there too.

[Vissy]

I should also add to the Blightwood feedback (something which I'd somehow completely forgotten about), but the Tumble DCs on the various crossing points could stand to be lowered a bit. They're a very frequent stumbling block that add a lot of unnecessary running to the experience.

[Dardonas]

The Ghoul Cabin's largest issue currently—from what I can see—is the fact that the ghouls have two attacks as well as each of those attacks having an on-hit stun which lasts for a considerable number of rounds with a high DC (considering it is a will save).

[Nezmith]

I visited the wasp tower for the first time this NCE and it seemed to still be having spawn problems. We ran through the entire zone up until the queen's room and no wasps had spawned at all, but there was loot to be found. With 140 people running around this NCE, a lot of low spawns like this seem especially punishing to everyone else that comes along half an hour or even an hour later.

[Dardonas]

Ah yes... I remember now.  The biggest issue with the Wasp Tower is that the Wasp Drones in the tower have touch attacks that easily hit lower level PCs.  These attacks do 10-18 acid damage, not to say on a crit, and they attack immediately as you load in.  This means you can walk into the tower and take 30-60 or so acid damage instantly and a guaranteed death if you're too low level or have no acid DR.

[DM Erebus]

Ah yes... I remember now.  The biggest issue with the Wasp Tower is that the Wasp Drones in the tower have touch attacks that easily hit lower level PCs.  These attacks do 10-18 acid damage, not to say on a crit, and they attack immediately as you load in.  This means you can walk into the tower and take 30-60 or so acid damage instantly and a guaranteed death if you're too low level or have no acid DR.

I changed that a while go, the drones are now on a trigger and won't be there the moment you load the area.

[DM Erebus]

The Ghoul Cabin's largest issue currently—from what I can see—is the fact that the ghouls have two attacks as well as each of those attacks having an on-hit stun which lasts for a considerable number of rounds with a high DC (considering it is a will save).

I checked, the ghoul claws don't have OnHit Stun, only the Special Attack does. I'm not sure how the AI decides which monster attack to use, but Stun shouldn't proc any more than every 1/3 attacks, if not less.

[DM Erebus]

I should also add to the Blightwood feedback (something which I'd somehow completely forgotten about), but the Tumble DCs on the various crossing points could stand to be lowered a bit. They're a very frequent stumbling block that add a lot of unnecessary running to the experience.

I've checked, the DC is still 10. I don't think that's too high. Even with zero Tumble that's 50/50. I'll put a pin in this for now as I've made other Blightwood user experience changes recently, maybe come back to it when I next submit an update.

[Vissy]

The problem comes in characters who have a negative Tumble score, which would be most heavily armored characters.