Author Topic: The New 2021 Fight of the Millenium Ravenloft review - opinions? Hyper Turbo+exe  (Read 3235 times)

DM Agony

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DMs don't seek out events to do shouts about. If someone would like one, they can try the /dm channel. I'm personally even willing to give them even if I am not logged in, at least discord side. But the player needs to request it (in game or via discord PM), and write it up themselves. If I am not in game, then I will say as much and at least post it in the PotM shouts channel if at all possible. It should not be assumed that a DM is involved if they shout, however. My own experience is something like 75% of the ones I have fired off were things I had no other involvement in.

As for resets, if someone has an event going on when it is started, they can try to ask the DM on to delay it. We can't always do so, as sometimes there are urgent reasons for it, but we do try to accommodate.

Kleomenes

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On the whole thing of "how do non popular players get shouts", which implies popular players do, I imagine I might fit in that category to some as I've been an active port player for a while.

I can vouch for the fact that its simply whether you ask or not. My events recently haven't had shouts, I've just relied on the calendar. All port events, player driven. Didn't have NPC input at all. Didn't feel like bothering DMs as I didn't mind if I had a lower turnout and they were pretty niche.

The shouts don't just happen because DMs are hanging on port player's every whim, nor do they happen because DMs are pushing events. Plenty happens in Port that doesn't have DM support, outside of the amount that happens which only gets a shout. All these Port events are basically PCs entertaining each other, and while DMs sometimes come to mess with us or will throw in support, its no where near as dominant as some people who havent been there seem to think.

I think if you saw player events in Barovia as much as port, you'd see as many shouts. You might not see as many NPCs depending on the event, for the reasons Tenebris said - there are some pretty "outlander" events set up sometimes. But I think you'd get the same support in terms of logistics and have seen it in the past. I am intending to put this to the test on my Barovian based character  at some point and when I do, I'm confident I'll be proven right on this.

I do notice player support for player events in Barovia is lower. 

Dhelindria

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Server's got incredible potential. Players are mostly great, easily approached, and friendly OOC. Even in Port, surprisingly. Dungeon and world design is top notch, and my most fun was gradually exploring and mapping out as much of this world as I could.
Have had little to no interaction with DMs, and when I finally did, I ended up hitting burnout point due to circumstances mostly outside the DMs control.

Would love to see more GMT-time DMs, and effort to engage and support players outside the bubbles of Port and closed faction spaces. Alongside my own struggles to get any DM response to player-run events, I was aware of so many excellent RPers with great Gothic Horror concepts and deep, vivid RP skills that never get so much as a mote of DM interaction, whilst the event boards and shout channels overflow with information about events supporting what usually appear to be the same small groups of French aristocrats in Port. I can't understate how appreciated it would be if maybe one in four of these fancy ceremonies, dances, galas, theatre shows, etc, instead went into supporting the little guys still trying to do Gothic Horror.

Spoiler: show
Would also be really cool if high level characters would stop sitting in the Outskirts with buffed up summons and all their combat stuff ready. C'mon. Stop it. Don't make DMs not want to run low-level events because the Edgelord Justice League is hanging around there at full power.

There's a lot that bothers me about this post, and it's probably because I'm someone whose character often hosts events in Dementlieu. I've put a lot of time and energy into creating things for other players to enjoy while also pursuing my own IC goals. But let address a couple of things: for one, my PC isn't an aristocrat. She's an Outlander - or was, because she just obtained citizenship. I've been playing her in Dementlieu for about eight months, and that's been a goal of hers since her arrival there. It didn't happen overnight.

The shouts done for my events were done because I asked the Port-based DMs (typically Agony) if they'd oblige. And as Agony posted, even if she's not IG to do a shout, she's usually more than willing to do one in the Discord. But she doesn't write those shouts - I do. I try to make things as easy for her as possible. And if she can't accommodate a request, then that's fine - I still announce my events on the forums, in the #dementlieu channel, and in the various other game-based Discords of which I'm a part. Parchments are placed in the game world. I am proactive. I am the squeaky wheel. And then there are still people who say that they have no idea that X event is taking or has taken place.

Lastly, the emphasis on "the little guys still trying to do Gothic Horror" is flat-out wrong as well as insulting, because it implies that we who play in Dementlieu somehow aren't part of the genre. Dementlieu may not (always) be vampires and werewolves, but vampires and werewolves aren't the end-all-be-all of Gothic Horror. A quick Internet search of the term ought to shed some light on the topic.

I understand that there are players who don't like Dementlieu as a setting, and that's fine - it's niche, and everyone has preferences. But please stop with the assumptions and the underhanded insults towards those of us who do prefer that setting. Our RP is just as viable and valuable, and to imply otherwise is not being excellent towards us as fellow players.

William Roberts

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In my opinion Shouts are a very small thing to get bothered about.

On the one hand, it's not realistic that everyone everywhere in the dread realms would be cognizant of an event as it happens. Players are more likely to participate if they have an IC reason to do so (I would hope), and advertising events on the calendar, for example, would better justify this than trying to tear to an event at the last moment because of a Shout.

As a reminder that *something* is going on and that the community is vibrant with stories, they are positive. But making them more than that (such as feeling a DM is "blessing" one's event)...I think is counter-productive.


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Merry Munchkin

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I do notice player support for player events in Barovia is lower.

I think that may be because of a couple of factors regarding characters in Barovia:  grinding dungeons for xp and coin, and grinding resources to sell for coin or for their own crafting.  I don't think some players fully appreciate the power of RP XP.  This is one of the reasons I do appreciate Port -- not because it has any dungeons, but because there is a vibrant enough playerbase to run a lot of events that generate a TON of RP opportunties (none of which involve dungeoneering).  Weddings, talent shows, fashion shows, lectures, etc.  All are awesome RP XP generators (and to top it off, you get to practice all your pitiful keyboarding skills and get faster at typing).


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TherapyCat

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The shouts are called courtesy shouts for a reason. The Dm's don't owe you anything.

This isn't a paid position. They are clocking in to serve us. It's a volunteer position.

I have been doing theatre director rp for nearly a year now.  Before I noticed that this RP has relied on DMS heavily in the past to create sets, lighting, special items, etc.

When I sit down to plan events I ask myself and those involved constantly-- How can we do this without DM involvement?

Not because we think the DMS won't help us, but because we know that ultimately it isn't their job to cater to our event. Do we like it if they are involved? Yes, and we can invite them to be a part of that, but inviting and depending are two different things.

So we put up posters on the forums and IG, we share information by word of mouth on our characters and we take advantage of the discords.

People are more willing to help people who help themselves, anyways.


Also, if you feel like Barovia isn't getting the attention it deserves, or you feel like Barovia RP is dead, what are you doing to change that? Because I've played purely barovia based characters for years and there was always something to actively get involved in.

remnar

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Better get a post in this thread before it gets locked because the tension is definitely rising in here.

as the famous, absurdly handsome, and amazing high level in western barovia, there isn't a lot happening in vallaki that can be smashed into a calender event
I opened the famous and very well built clinic, but I just post an announcement post and in the vallaki chat on the discord - usually only 1 or 2 people show up.  They are all improptu openings when I decide I want to open.
I know Elisabeta's tailor shop would do a similar thing, and the christians and the hospice also do the same.  it was part of my inspiration, actually

meanwhile in port, everything is an event that is on the calender - play happening in X time, a chess event every other week, or a show here and a show there
its much easier to have the DM's blast the server and discord with a shout if it's a one-off thing, but I might piss people off if they see two shouts a day about my very beautifully made and amazingly roleplay filled clinic and I imagine this is why the other impromptu opening places in barovia don't get shouts either

Merrymunchkin also had a good point: there's nothing to do in port OTHER than events.  there's few low level crafting material aquisition points, there's no low level dungeons, the mist camp is right there so all the high level dungeons are basically around you but once you complete a couple of those you're in slowdown and might as well go back to roleplay, there's also no MPCs or so few and so different from the barovia method to be effectively just another 'event'
There's nothing wrong with that, but it's probably part of why there's not much that visibly, noticeably, happens in barovia - everyone is pretty busy doing things because they're trying to level their new PC or to get money or to X or Y so going to an event or holding an event (especially when many people that might show up wont get any rpxp out of it) might just not be what someone wants to do

come to my clinic
best server guide: https://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=62555.0

come to my clinic in warehouse 3 in vallaki!

Alan Hunter

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Server's got incredible potential. Players are mostly great, easily approached, and friendly OOC. Even in Port, surprisingly. Dungeon and world design is top notch, and my most fun was gradually exploring and mapping out as much of this world as I could.
Have had little to no interaction with DMs, and when I finally did, I ended up hitting burnout point due to circumstances mostly outside the DMs control.

Would love to see more GMT-time DMs, and effort to engage and support players outside the bubbles of Port and closed faction spaces. Alongside my own struggles to get any DM response to player-run events, I was aware of so many excellent RPers with great Gothic Horror concepts and deep, vivid RP skills that never get so much as a mote of DM interaction, whilst the event boards and shout channels overflow with information about events supporting what usually appear to be the same small groups of French aristocrats in Port. I can't understate how appreciated it would be if maybe one in four of these fancy ceremonies, dances, galas, theatre shows, etc, instead went into supporting the little guys still trying to do Gothic Horror.

Spoiler: show
Would also be really cool if high level characters would stop sitting in the Outskirts with buffed up summons and all their combat stuff ready. C'mon. Stop it. Don't make DMs not want to run low-level events because the Edgelord Justice League is hanging around there at full power.

There's a lot that bothers me about this post, and it's probably because I'm someone whose character often hosts events in Dementlieu. I've put a lot of time and energy into creating things for other players to enjoy while also pursuing my own IC goals. But let address a couple of things: for one, my PC isn't an aristocrat. She's an Outlander - or was, because she just obtained citizenship. I've been playing her in Dementlieu for about eight months, and that's been a goal of hers since her arrival there. It didn't happen overnight.

The shouts done for my events were done because I asked the Port-based DMs (typically Agony) if they'd oblige. And as Agony posted, even if she's not IG to do a shout, she's usually more than willing to do one in the Discord. But she doesn't write those shouts - I do. I try to make things as easy for her as possible. And if she can't accommodate a request, then that's fine - I still announce my events on the forums, in the #dementlieu channel, and in the various other game-based Discords of which I'm a part. Parchments are placed in the game world. I am proactive. I am the squeaky wheel. And then there are still people who say that they have no idea that X event is taking or has taken place.

Lastly, the emphasis on "the little guys still trying to do Gothic Horror" is flat-out wrong as well as insulting, because it implies that we who play in Dementlieu somehow aren't part of the genre. Dementlieu may not (always) be vampires and werewolves, but vampires and werewolves aren't the end-all-be-all of Gothic Horror. A quick Internet search of the term ought to shed some light on the topic.

I understand that there are players who don't like Dementlieu as a setting, and that's fine - it's niche, and everyone has preferences. But please stop with the assumptions and the underhanded insults towards those of us who do prefer that setting. Our RP is just as viable and valuable, and to imply otherwise is not being excellent towards us as fellow players.

There's quite a bit of this post that bothers me as well. Its not to say the same people did not try  put effort and did not garner the same results as you.

 There are several Former Port folk including myself who did not gain the same outcome as you have which also gave cause to this opinion.  For example I have played a outlander trying to gain citizenship for three years no response to in game letters, notices, and when I did  get a response still no feed back. Yet you got it in eight months. It's insulting  those who have been before you haven't acquired what you have with the same effort. It's like saying those that come before you didn't try or denying their experience. You can't ask for others to be excellent you yourself are not being so. Try placing yourself in their shoes. I'm not much of a loved player and having left the Dloo group for certain reasons for the betterment of others narrative and roleplay I understand its a rather Niche group of friends. I for one can sympathize for those who have tried and have an honest opinion of the matter. It's not that your opinion doesn't matter but you can't act as if theirs isn't either. That in itself is a bit unfair. Let's remember the OG post that we have responsibility to roleplay and to be fair of all roleplay and narratives.  Communication is key between us to avoid such circumstances. So please stop assuming that people are assuming to do Dloo and it's player base harm. That should be a topic on its own accord and one that may need a mediator for.
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DM Vetala

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This is a reminder that while you're welcome to share your experiences constructively, it is unacceptable to insult your fellow players. This thread will be locked if it goes down the path of disrespecting one another.

Kleomenes

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TherapyCat

There's a lot of sense in TherapyCat's post above. I think its good someone pointed out the DMs are not obliged to support anything and everything. Even if that was sensible, or they wanted to, it would simply be an impossible work load. And this is not a job its a volunteer position.

Thus when doing events always plan you will have no DM support, and act accordingly. You're very likely to get a shout if you ask but the bulk of the planning, advertising and work is going to come from your own effort. It makes running events hard work - I've seen how hard Dhelindria has worked on multiple occasions on events we've collaborated on, where she has had to do the placeables because she has the rental.

I do think Barovia's very able to support player events. It is harder to think of appropriate things - I've been doing much like Remnar with the  hospice but these are just sort of enhanced "LFRP" situations. And its harder to think of things that would be amenable to native NPCs. I also think there seems to be a less rich cast of Native chars as NPCs in Barovia. In that most of them are super important or faction linked, and there's less of the "Alanik Ray" level. The night is not without its challenge for events either. But I do believe it can be done, and "be the change you want to see" is very valid in this situation.

Dread

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You can go to the Broken Bell theater right now and rent it out for a three-day period. You donít even need one of the shops or warehouses to host an event in, if thatís something you really want to do. Itís just far easier to free-ride and either wait or hope for roleplay to come to you. You often get out what you put in, though.

As has been pointed out by numerous others, DMs donít do much more than the courtesy shout to announce an event thatís happening in Port. The legwork is overwhelmingly the work of the players involved in hosting said event. If an NPC shows up, itís not because it was planned but because a DM liked the initiative and thought to spice things up. It was neither expected nor required.

When youíre in the helicopter, your focus is always on maximizing the limited time you have. Given that, are you going to chase after this generic request where this one PC wants a ďfive minuteĒ interaction with Lorelei, or are you going to do something at the event where there are guaranteed to be 15+ people?

Merry Munchkin

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You can make it easier on yourself as well by making it a team effort -- if two or three players agree to coordinate an event, it is likely to be an easier lift and you will have more voices to market the event to others.

I note only one major impediment to hosting events inside the city of Vallaki -- I think other players often hesitate to get trapped behind the gates come nightfall, and are worried about leaving the event and getting back out to where the dungeons are (without running a gauntlet of monsters, either in the streets or in the sewers).  Not that this should stop a brave, foolhardy level 2 from giving it a go.  :lol:


Burleigh Burrowell - RIP

GiganticHowlslime

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Wow, this blew up.

Just a broad sheet, sincere thing - Please don't draw too much offence at things I've said. I'm doing my best to keep my language as non-accusatory and non-condemning as possible. I don't intend to insult anyone or yell and rant. I'm expressing a very common, negative experience and perception with an active effort to trim bile and spite out of my words, as those wouldn't be helpful to anyone.

Take my tone as soft and contemplative, not accusatory or directed at you personally. I truly don't intend to make anyone feel Set To Hostile. Olive branch. Pitchforks down. Not here for that. Just trying to do my best. I'm going to double my effort to soften anything I say going forward, as I really don't want this to turn combatative.

If ninety-nine percent of my post is trying my best to be as respectful to everyone as possible, and a shred of negativity can be found in one place, then I sincerely ask people to ignore the negative place and focus on the respectful parts. If something sounds spiteful or vitriolic or causes offense, delete it from your perception entirely, it's not worth your time or energy to address, and I have clearly miswritten it if it's had that effect.

We good?

Quote
None of this is unforgiveable or wrong, and none of this is something the DMs should feel attacked for the discussion of, so I hope that's not the impression I'm giving. My suggestion is simply to put thought into covering an uncovered timezone, and maybe attempt to push more interaction onto players that might feel left outside in the cold.

So, how do you propose DMs cover an uncovered timezone?
As suggested, bring on more DMs!
Obviously, I'm unaware if the problem is a barrier to DMing, or an absence of applicants. It's entirely probably that the latter is the case.

If there is a lack of sufficient staff, I'd suggest broadly avertising that lack of sufficient staff, to maybe give some potential future DMs a push to register their interest?
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My experience was that when the day came, a DM was apparently supporting an impromptu event in Port for some important PCs, and then dropped a 30m reset as soon as they finished there. This really badly disrupted our schedule, meaning we needed to desperately run up a mountain, rather than atmospherically climb it, and meant that several people couldn't attend it as they'd hoped to due to the disruption in time. No DM attended the event.

Had you asked DMs to announce your event? DMs don't read minds, nor do they have time to scour the forums and every Discord looking for players who might need assistance. You have to be proactive and reach out, and perhaps a DM will have the time/interest to pick it up; if not, you make do without.

Yes. I'd messaged on the DM channel, provided as much warning as possible, and advertised actively in-game and on the forums. I don't have personal contacts with any DMs that would make it feel appropriate to jump into their PMs and request their personal attention, so I used every non-personal option I could find. It might be that I missed the most important one, but I'd be surprised if that was the case.

Again, I'm trying to not put this on the DMs, I'm mainly trying to discourage the common chant of "It's your fault if you're not getting traction, run more player events and the DMs will come running! It worked for me!". As echoed by Alan -. And as you quite firmly put it, the answer might not be "You should have tried harder". You might do absolutely everything right, and find out that there is an absence of time, availability, or interest in what you did. I don't regret trying to run events - I regret making the mistake of expecting results.

Pretending that DMs don't have friends, and don't feel more inclined to run events and stories for those friends, is absurd. As echoed by many - they're not robots, they're not paid to provide a public service - I'm no more entitled to have a DM attend my event than I am to barge into a gaming store, slap my character sheet on the nearest table, and declare myself the new party leader of whatever game they're playing.

My frustration came from following all the advice I was given when I asked, and not seeing the result described, and fishing for a reason why. I'm not known well enough for any DM to have any personal objection to me or my behaviour, as far as I know (this has obviously changed since, and I have no expectation at all that I'd attract interest after rocking the boat like this, but that's entirely on me.)

When fishing for this reason, being told to do things I already did, is very frustrating and unhelpful, and I wanted to make it clear that people can follow every piece of advice commonly given and end up in radio silence. To sum up what Alan described well - Everyone who gets results did the work, but not everyone who did the work gets results.

And that should be clearly communicated to people, as the message I got was "Just try to make a player-focused event, and I'm sure it'll get DM support!", and the reality of it is "Plan for a story that requires no DM support, and only that of your fellow players." And those stories are more than worth pursuing.

And there's nothing wrong about giving people that message. That's the crux of everything I'm trying to say. I was given a false expectation that actions would have results - I want to avoid other people making the mistake that I did and experiencing the same frustrations, because they're the seed of toxicity that can lead to ruining your own mindset about what should be a great place to be.

tl;dr:
Telling people who feel 'on the outside' that they're just doing it wrong is not healthy or productive when factors entirely outside of their control may be the entire reason for this.
Whilst your advice might increase their chances of takeup, the prevailing advice should be to plan for a character whose story never requires DM oversight or responses, and focus mainly on interpersonal things with other characters.
I mean no offense to anyone in communicating this.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2022, 12:28:01 PM by GiganticHowlslime »
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Madame Trousers Son

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I think part of the issue is that Port has more of an events culture in the first place. There are dozens of players who create events there, and if you come to Port on a new PC to run events, many event veterans will gladly help. But yes, 95 - 99% of the work is PC driven. When we worked on the Celebration, we literally had a Discord server with 6 players on it to coordinate everything, and some of us spend a day or more setting things up. Just on setup. We did receive some DM support, mostly when they kindly helped us save our setup so it would be crash resistant; but we would have continued anyway without it and taken our chances.

I sympathise with how frustrating it can be to create an event and not have many people show up. I've had disappointing events like that too. I ran an Etiquette event where only one PC showed up outside of my character's friends and allies; and there's been many an auction flop in Port.

Certainly it's also harder to run certain themed events in Barovia because of the lack of focus. Maybe an untested idea is to ask around if people are willing to make new low level PCs to come in and support the event, even if their mains wouldn't usually go.

At the end of the day, it's about convincing your fellow players to come join in. I know that if I wanted to do theatre RP in Barovia, it'd be a tougher ask; PCs there aren't typically falling over themselves to try to show off their cultural sophistication.
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GiganticHowlslime

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(To avoid repeating myself, everything from the previous post about calm vibes is repeated here.)

Just to clarify, in my case, around a dozen PCs were involved, and a great deal of others in preparation and 'attached' to the story, be it because they had interest but couldn't make availability, or because their contribution was intentionally more in the setup and discussion. Player engagement wasn't anywhere close to a problem, and though it takes energy and effort, the response was brilliant, and the event itself came about directly in response to several characters with a mutual interest all finding that they couldn't get DM responses to their independent efforts and requests.

I mean, I literally stopped dungeoning for two weeks and was run off my feet for hours a day chatting and preparing with people. My dear friends were screaming "Slime, you're at the opposite of blind drive, come kill some werebats", and I responded, eyes distant with lingering obsession, "No, I must buy more S E X T A N T S". Was a grand old time. If I'd been told "That's the fun part" I could've happily believed it. As I say, my major malfunction was listening to advice I'd been given, and using that as a metric. My eyes were on the destination, not the journey, and one has to understand that without a DM, -you- have to provide the destination too.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2022, 01:15:03 PM by GiganticHowlslime »
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Alan Hunter

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Quote

"To sum up what Alan described well - Everyone who gets results did the work, but not everyone who did the work gets results."

If what little I provided help inspired to speak up or reflect then I'm happy what I provided help someone even if it's one person. That there is the reason I strive to continue playing because I've walked in such shoes and understand. You're not alone I hope the experience helps you in a better experience here in POTM and if not enjoy the game for what it's worth with others. Making friends and gaming with friends is at its Core because we are nostalgic playing video games and sharing a passion with others. Culture this day is often toxic, and we forget the innocence of why we partook in this enjoyment in the first place. Continue chasing and sharing your review so others may learn from you as well.
"For Evil to win is for good men to do nothing."

GiganticHowlslime

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I'm pretty awful at brevity, as my text walls show, but I think that does it.

Everyone who gets results did the work, not everyone who does the work gets results.
8/10 IGN - Would Unintentionally Instigate A TPK To Oozes Again

I hope that allows the people on both sides of the divide to know how the other side feels. When advising people how to get from one to the other - Assuming that they're not putting in the work is probably unhelpful.
I don't know if anyone has the belief that those whose stories benefit from regular DM oversight don't do the work, but that's important for them to know too.
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CorruptiveAries

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Before I go further, I want to say that I am saying this from the perspective of this has been my own experiences, and what's been gathered from the friends I have made here. I could be entirely wrong, or not seeing the full story so I do want to preface that, if that is the case, I am happy to change my view and opinions, but I offer this in a constructive matter.

I have been on the server for a little over 4 years now, I don't see myself as a "well-known" person, or a popular player where if you heard my characters name, half the server-base would know who I am, and the people that do know my character and have interacted with him regularly, is rather small compared to others. I do, however, see myself as a regular player who has been able to get a small "taste" of some things.

The perception I have noticed is that some of the deep, major events and plotlines, the sort where characters get involved in some scary, closure-risking events and/or fight some truly awful creatures and villains...that those seem to be only available to a VERY small, select group of people, often, consistently the same ones. And it's often impossible to get involved with those types of stories and scenes. While some plots are currently running and starting, if the recommended way to join an ongoing one is to ask and meet with PCs involved, if they refuse to allow you to participate, or you have no idea which PC's are even involved in it, how does one get "in" to it unless you know them personally to ask OOC?

And it doesn't necessarily mean in the sense of flat out asking, "Hey can I join in?" - "No." it's more of a subtle refusal that happens IC. Where you are either brushed off, given minor bits of info to tide you over but not really enough to truly get you involved at best, or left by the wayside only to hear about the resulting fight later, or made to feel as if your potential RP contribution won't mean anything or be useful at all at worst. As an example, the couple AMPC related events I've been lucky to get involved with, were sporadic, but it felt as if I had to literally barge my way into it to take part, even when I had IC reasons to do so and be involved and got the feeling of, "Why are you here? Well since you're here I guess, let's give you a minor role in this". However, consequently when I have had some personal, random encounters with an MPC/AMPC, they have been extremely fun and entertaining and I enjoyed them intensely and the AMPC players were wonderful when they happened through the scene and afterwards, and I applaud them for being flexible for handling a scene, and also doing OOC check-ins for scenes afterwards. But they were extremely memorable because it felt like, "Finally! I got to do something!"

Now, I'm not saying that the people who are regularly involved with these should just stop doing plots, but more just a case of...perhaps share the spotlight? Let others in? Why is there a (perceived) hesitancy to allow others to participate and join in from both an IC and OOC standpoint?

It just comes across as a perception of gatekeeping when only those few can do so, or when a DM is required for things, it feels as if some get these very easily and get a response quickly, whereas others who may want to do a small scene or two, have to wait weeks, perhaps even months before it happens, if it does.

Of course, every player is different for what they want out of the server, and that is perfectly fine. One character may be content to get a high level of herbalism, sell their potions and that's it. Another may be perfectly happy being in a theatre troupe and being an actor, another may enjoy dungeoning and not wish to be involved in those things at all, another may be content to do casual RP and avoid danger entirely, etc.. These are all perfectly fine and valid because that's what the player and characters want and what they enjoy out of the server, but there are also players that would jump at the chance to participate if it was offered to them and players who also want to have a chance at being the hero too.

It just seems disproportionate when you have some that may have 10+ world-saving, earth shattering fights, and dark lord encounters under their belt and get to add their status to the overall server storylines and lore, but then you have others who have also spent some time on the server and have never even been able to be involved with a single one unless they got extremely lucky to be in the right place, at the right time. Or have tried to get involved and were denied, or couldn't because of scheduling factors outside of their control. Player tenure status aside, it still adds to my mentioning of, help share the spotlight for the ones that can, and are able.

Now, to also add to my point. I do understand the DM team is a limited group of people and being able to do scenes and help facilitate things for a player-base of hundreds, is extremely difficult and time consuming to do. I also understand player events should try to be orchestrated as best as possible, but some things ultimately would and will require a DM present, either to ensure it's treated as "legit" or so that there's no question as to the result that took part.

However, I try not to directly involve a DM because I am sure they get hundreds of messages a day from people asking about things. The times I personally have directly reached out to a DM have been for either mediation purposes, a rule clarification, or reaching out in response to either an app or request made through appropriate channels on the forums (Mostly for very small requests, nothing major or requiring scenes however). The ones I have worked with, have been very pleasant and cordial and showed an eagerness to help and didn't make me feel as if I was bothering them or being a nuisance.

I also do understand, for me, it could be very much a scheduling issue. I work full-time, and can't hop in immediately and spend 8+ hours a day playing except for some days where I am completely free and have nothing in my real life going on that requires me to be away, and it could also very much be a time-zone issue on my end as well. Because most events (or at least the ones I have seen) would require me to either not work that day, or be up extremely late/early to participate. So I definitely take that into account for that part of it.

Again, these are just formed from my own experiences and perceptions in my time here, but I do know that I am not alone in feeling this way as well.
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We're learning.

Maffa

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Quote from: CorruptiveAries
(yaddayadda)


I dont have an answer myself for how to get included in the world shaking plots... but if i had, this would be the one.

on one hand, it is understandable that not everybody can join, i mean who can possibly manage a 30+ ppl plot? I am in such a plot now, and i wish i had a magic wand to crop off a few because managing large numbers is like herding cats and nothing gets done, "meetings to to set the schedule for a future meeting" sort of mess, stuff that drains any fun from online roleplay.

Then I would say that the groundwork is what makes you let in when something happens, because you have become useful and known to be useful. I dont mean dungeoneering. Anyone can go dungeoneering. I mean chatting with people, making meaningful connections, talk about everything and nothing, so that at some point people will naturally come to you and gossip, or confide, and you will find yourself in many situations you didnt even ask for. More organically part of the overall dance, less "mom said i also get to play some or youre grounded".

edit: oh, and timezones. those are merciless.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2022, 04:48:54 AM by Maffa »
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Mailbox-2100

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I'd opt for smaller, more atmospheric touches fo DMing rather than primarily larger events with a smaller scale.
So rather: more events with smaller scale, relating to blossoming the world and its theatre.

We need more cosmic, light giving entities!

Merry Munchkin

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We need more cosmic, light giving entities!

But calling on DMs is like saying Beetlejuice three times
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I could put my hat in ...   :)

I used to run my own server back in gamespy days. It was phenomenal. A low level zombie survival experience, where food mattered, and exploration was rewarded...
Naturally, alone, I fell on hard times. And over a decade later here I am.

I thank God for that. Though I understand the light can burn. So I promise not to hurt anyone more than they can take.

We're all here for a reason. Right? Why can't we love each other and open a new chapter, into a NEON DAWN.



And set this land ablaze!

Spoiler: show
Would you believe in a night like this?
A night like this
When visions come true
Would you believe in a tale like this?
A lay of bliss
We're praising the old lore
Come to the blazing fire and
See me in the Shadows
See me in the Shadows
Songs I will sing
Of runes and rings
Just hand me my harp
And this night turns into myth
Nothing seems real
You soon will feel
The World we live in
Is another skald's
Dream in the Shadows
Dream in the Shadows
Do you believe there is sense in it
Is it truth or myth?
They're one in my rhymes
Nobody knows the meaning behind
The weaver's line
Well nobody else but the Norns can
See through the blazing fires of time and
All things will proceed as the
Child of the hallowed
Will speak to you now
See me in the Shadows
See me in the Shadows
Songs I will sing
Of tribes and kings
The carrion bird and the hall of the slain
Nothing seems real
You soon will feel
The World we live in
Is another skald's
Dream in the Shadows
Dream in the Shadows

Do not fear for my reason
There's nothing to hide
How bitter your treason
How bitter the lie
Remember the runes
And remember the light
All I ever want is to be at you side
We gladden the raven
Now I will run through the blazing fires
That's my choice
Cause things shall proceed as foreseen
« Last Edit: May 23, 2022, 01:38:42 PM by Mailbox-2100 »

GiganticHowlslime

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I'd opt for smaller, more atmospheric touches fo DMing rather than primarily larger events with a smaller scale.

As a returning 2014-era player, it strongly feels like there's been a shift away from that stuff, at least in GMT. I remember frequent minor interactions, from DMs dropping in to make a dungeon more engaging for small groups, to little encounters on the roads, or possessing random NPCs, even for total nobodies like me. This is from times with comparable player-counts.

Simply haven't felt that on return, but I'm also aware that way more complex stories are being told behind the wall. And focusing more on Story-DMing over Atmospheric-DMing is totally a decision that can be made. We'd not have the great stories coming out from the focused players without it.

Sure, I'd prefer more Atmospheric DMing, but of course I would. If I was in a group wrapped up in a huge, long-term plot, I'd not want the DM to tell me they'd abandoned it to run disjointed, won't-go-anywhere, meaningless stuff for unimportant rando level 5's.

And as a RL DM, I know I'd far rather stick with my group of five friends running a long-term campaign, than run endless one-shots for absolute strangers. The atmosphere-heavy, spread-it-out DMing of the past was excellent, though. But it might well be that it's simply not satisfying for the DMs to do that, and at the end of the day, they deserve to be having fun here, and a DM that's exclusively running plots for their existing cast is better than a DM that's burnt out on DMing.

But basically, everything Aries said.
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CorruptiveAries

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Then I would say that the groundwork is what makes you let in when something happens, because you have become useful and known to be useful. I dont mean dungeoneering. Anyone can go dungeoneering. I mean chatting with people, making meaningful connections, talk about everything and nothing, so that at some point people will naturally come to you and gossip, or confide, and you will find yourself in many situations you didnt even ask for. More organically part of the overall dance, less "mom said i also get to play some or youre grounded".

True, but the issue can be when people do actually work and try and lay the groundwork for that, making those connections, etc. And it still doesn't happen because of the same things, being rebuffed, or just subtly excluded from it, that's what I mean is essentially there are attempts but unless you are part of that select (Seemingly always consistent) few, then you just aren't getting "in". Period.

A person could IC do all the necessary groundwork, needed and work themselves to the bone to try and do it, but if there's still a perceived OOC refusal to let people in because- "My character is qualified for this plot because of the laundry list of things they have done, and you haven't done one so you aren't gonna be able to handle this" how is one going to get "in" to those things.

It's like trying to apply for your first job but all the jobs out there require experience. But you can't get experience until you get hired, but you can't get hired until you get experience until you either get lucky, or someone you know helps you.

I remember frequent minor interactions, from DMs dropping in to make a dungeon more engaging for small groups, to little encounters on the roads, or possessing random NPCs, even for total nobodies like me. This is from times with comparable player-counts.


^ This. I personally love this and I think things like this would be great. Just subtle things here and there that make things seem more alive, more scary, odd. Doesn't have to even be world-shaking or even that threatening, that could lead to nowhere. Or even randomly dropping in and say a character pretending to be a fortune teller, is suddenly struck with an actual vision of something that happens (or given a plot seed for something else) later, maybe a few hours later, maybe days or weeks later.

Things that can help lowbies feel like they're part of something and get some sort of event for themselves too, instead of feeling like that the only way they get to do anything is by being high level. Plus it's always nice and surprising when you are just sitting there chatting away or doing something like say practicing a spell and suddenly a DM who happened to be around and watching the scene takes part and makes something happen. Just little touches like that go a long way I feel.
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