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Author Topic: The New 2021 Fight of the Millenium Ravenloft review - opinions? Hyper Turbo+exe  (Read 5255 times)

Alan Hunter

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 :roll: Don't judge me for the title. I felt I had to flavor it up a little given some responses in the old thread which is located here -> https://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=29774.50

Now I know the original poster of the prior had a set opinion, most did not agree with, but soem valid points were made in the Thread in reading that Thread you can get a lot of history of the servers responses and the people then and I like to say to some extent POTM has gone a long way in the good mind you. I don't agree with the Carebear approach nor do I agree with the Grumpy Bear approach either. You need an equal amount of sugar and salt as well as bit of honesty. Take some one's opinion with a fine grain and try not to attack them for just having an opinion. Everyones approach and experiences to POTM is unique but you have to wiegh the good and the bad. So I'm going to to give my honest opinion on a Review of Potm in my view and I encourage others to share their views to hopefully in a cordial and relatively fair manner let out their voice. Though we as human beings don't often tend to listen to each other very well and are set in our beliefs and opinions even though tis amazing when we can set diffrences aside and achieve quite a bit we often don't do this. We don't always have to agree with another but we are living on this same world with the same crap together I just don't see why we outta make it worst for each other when we can do better. So if my words inspire you to write something awesome! If not well put out your own review and give your opinion its an open forum lol.

Right that aside lets say starting in POTM is with out a doubt confusing, hard, and frankly not all for everyone. Though Swet Sweet Soren is Awesomesauce and may put up that hyperlink from IGN POTM is literally one of the few surviving games from a genre and era long past and was lucky to be a survivor. Staff can boast as well as Soren they made it. But, there were a lot of games before them that were also very awesome for their time such as Wanderers of the Western Heartlands, Gate Keepers, Paradise Island,  The many Nordocks, KOTR for the Star Wars fans, Middle Earth, DragonLance - Rise of Tiamat, and many other old forgotten servers that had equally just as much to offer as POTM. Being the last coconut to have fallen from the palm tree doesn't make it a great exception that when this game was about it average 11-45 players at a time before the rise of the Great Beamdog Ressurection. Needles to say in those early childhoods POTM ranked up there with Aerlith and some of these other titles before the revival and it wasn't to bad.

I'll never forget my first time in POTM as a young Meliekki Ranger who randomly walked into Vallaki during a werewolf attack and called out for any god to grant him something to fight back the evil that befell the outskirts. A cool dm put a +4 bow in my hand and I tried for the life of me to shoot down as many werewolves as possible to help people and lay the image of Ezra before him. This would inspire a long an rewarding immersion I could not thank this DM enough for a good first impression of how entertaining the server could possibly be. But, now having been in POTM for several years now I admit that spark is missing these days especially given a lot of experiences though I can't deny things now are better run than its early inceptions where things weren't so grey or white. One of my biggest concerns then, though people hate cliques, is when I inadvertantly got in IC confrontation with a group and things went a bit ooc. This changed my view of POTM as I was a bit pushed out of events and ongoings due to not agreeing or getting along with the popular kids so to say. Ironically it got me to be a bit of an underdog and I got to roleplay with a lot of talented and not so known folks which was awesome cause they were the most uncanny folks to roleplay with. This also got me to experience my first DM reprimand which was extremely harsh and to this day I feel Staff lacks the quality in sitting with a fellow player and talking with them instead of consensus descisions done behind the player's back outside of their opinion or defense.

Would that make me bias? As some have used this word it seems many are bias of thier opinions and that's only natural we only reacted to our experiences and hope others will listen. This is just my experience but the collective experience of others is what does make this server good. I know you are all saying "Crazy Alan. What yah talking about again?" And you are right I am crazy as I reread the old Thread and listen to the new responses you just can't sit back as an old player and not give the pluses and minuses of Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist. Now this review is just my opinion you don't have to agree with me but I encourage you to write your own broader view which helps not just us but newer players to the community to get a good idea of our little game even though it belongs to Soren and the Staff with out players there be no game to play and if there were no game there honestly be no players lol.

Honestly I have to give credit to the diverse design in using this old tileset game editor to make the enviroment of Ravenloft come alive especially the mechanics of the contribution of the players who make the enviroment immersive. As a roleplaying game few who play Roleplaying Games understand the term often considering MMO (Massive Multi- Player) titles to be the approach. POTM brings back the warmth of a LARP (Live Action Role Playing) and Table Top on somewhat easily accessible platformall thanks to Beam Dog and Bioware. The attention to detail graphically to the enviroment gives you that foreboding horror especially when night falls. Overall your experience is what you make with it as a hack and slash with friends with acting or an immersive play with other actors. Sadly the negativity of this enviroment of POTM is its longevity in character development for a player as many factors outside of mechanical can also effect their progression. The addition to Factions, Communities, Cliques, or Discord groups can make or break a character wiling or unwilling and it makes the months of grinding worrisome as reworking a character from a failure is time consuming. So this is not a rewarding game if you expect a good long haul as its fret with peril on a mechanical, role play, and community level.

This said POTM is not a quick Hack and Slash and is not friendly to short term character development. It is engrossing with a lot of mechanical details from your class, loot, equipment, fianances, faction participation if opt in, lore, and crafts which offers a wide variation of possibilities but all very time consuming. So don't expect to sit an hour a day and expect results hours with devotion are needed to get involved and roleplaying interaction is neccisary for progress. In which the Community can make or break you depending on your outlook or experiences with involvement to the game itself. Aside from the common OOC Dramas any game of this caliber possesses dramatic change since its early days of toxicity and hostility and if a player or staff tells you otherwise you can find some juicy stuff on the forums if your into that thing. But, on the bright side the Community/Staff and the fact it has a Community Council is a plus given the semi-friendliness of people and with a Discord if that's your thing you can talk with folks and chat it up giving you multiple facets to communicate and experience diffirently a much changed POTM from then. What I do find difficult of this game and a put off is the Rules some of it is not always clear and some of it is very contradictive to other posts and statements on the plus though the Staff are working in clarifying and expanding information so its easier for folks to find the answers needed even allowing players to speak with Staff, Community Council members, and fellow players.

Bias is a big thing here, not in a bad way, as some folks are set in their opinion same as staff as everyones time is precious. You either love or hate POTM and few in the middle I went from loving it to hating it to just "Meh". Overall if you want a game to roleplay and hang out with friends its not so bad. I highly recommend just doing that than trying to get involved with things as I have tried for years and either I fail at achieving as others or simply I'm not qualified so don't waste your time trying or expecting a DM to help you in achieving anything that won't happen here less you put in effort or come off interesting to them or others. Which reminds me I forgot about talking of Prestige Classes recent changes some of them you can fiddle around with others are set behind Applications to get them. Which when it comes to Applications in my experience is the worst concept for classes as how can any one try a prestige class if they never have acces to it or get an application through. For some its a bit easier than others but most can admit its a rough processes which pushes that grind and longevity of play to get anywhere making this game a time killer to the grave and not get to experience all it has to offer. Oh and another plus there are Monstrous Races you can play! But, that's behind an Application system as well which thankfully isn't a $4.99 DLC fee so bonus on that.

Immersion is great on POTM as I mentioned you get to act and interact with players delving into the mindset of your character, enviroment, and setting. The progressive nature and behavior of your character is solely up to you and your involvment with others on your concept. However some concepts are not as easily played out and being Villianous isn't as easy as one may think. In this again a long grind to understanding the game and its lore is challenging and often overwhelming and intimidating as some interactions with fellow players can make or break you, especially when it comes to ooc involvements or misunderstandings, so try to take things with a grain of salt and focus on having fun or find solutions to settle disputes we are all human after all. Which is a key features to the Community Council I mention which I got to admit as big as this game got since its old days was a great idea. Though the players are offered to elect Community Councils it is concerning that when changes occur there is not much to do on playerside when our electees are no longer there. As told to me by a staff memeber once. "This isn't a democracy" and most things are done via consensus by Staff which is a bit hard to understand player side so you have to hope Staff has the best interest for the Community and tis Players though overall the Game is the most important.

And when they do occur New Character Events are a great way for everyone to experience humble beginings, make allies/friends, make enemies/haters, and maybe meet a DM (experiences may vary). I'm a bit bias but don't expect to get involved in too many DM Events as given my experience. "I spend time with those I'm interested in. So why would I spend time with those not? My time is limited and precious to me." if and when you can enjoy them I recommend it they can be fun and don't concern to much about DM events or requests there's an Application for that as well and a long wait time if you are lucky. Think I'm still going a year for one or two of my requests but that's just me. Though you can hold Player Events read the rules carefully on that though you may also aquire a random "DM Appears" on those possibly there's no worry because you did something interesting to garner attention (Experience may Vary). Maybe? Happens some times which isn't to badly often or not (experiences may vary from player to player). Expect to be ignored on some requests though and leave room to put effort on your own. Helps if you are in a faction or involved with popular folks if you crave the DM Attention otherwise do your own thing with your own crew and try to be welcoming and low-key if you don't want the attention.

In Hindsight between the Community, Council, and Staff there is a solid foundation for players to get involved with things and multiple facets of mediums to communicate questions or concerns including their Discord. Genuienly if you can't find a DM or Community Council memeber most players can answer questions or gear you to the right part of the section on the forum even though I think the Journal in game is a bit out of date and finding all the cool emotes and stuff like writing and in game custom stuff is a hassle till some one points it out. There's so much to POTM I simply just can't cover int in a review and almost wish there was like a Player's Handbook for the game itself or at least a Strategy Guide in how to get through everything. Thankfully most of the information is in the forum if you can find and sort it out, mostly, so no worries and best case ask a lot of questions when you can most folks are friendly and will take the time to answer you if they are available. There's so much that can be reviewed but this is just my opinion I like to see others view and Ravenloft: Prisoner's of the Mist is a good game for the most part so I recommend in giving it a try.

Overall my Meta-Bias score of Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist is a 3/5

Graphics: For an Old Game far more stable than Godfall (4)

Child Friendly: :3 *heee (2)

Online: Experiences May Vary (3)

Fame: 4 (5 out of 5 Fortniters did not know what Ravenloft was) (4 out of 5 MMO players recalled NWN)

Stature: 3.7

Volume: ?

Staff: 3.5

CC: 4

Community: 3

Customs: 5 (A lot of Stuff to Customize Characters)

Aggregation: 4
"For Evil to win is for good men to do nothing."

Forte

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This thread was a surreal, spiritual experience. Good post.
Dzenifér Uralkodó - HATEFUL

Stormy

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I quite literally logged on today to start this thread, but here we are.

I can not stress this enough, most of what I am writing here is from my own personal experience, if I see the phrase rumor Mill again on a complaint post, go ahead and ban me because I will lose my mind.

The PoTM Staff is immune to criticism. It does not matter how much you raise against them, you are brought behind closed doors and quietly have your concerns addressed. As basically everyone who reads my rant threads know, I detest the fact that the DMs and CC operate behind closed doors. We do not see the arguments or decisions being made, we do not know the conversations that are had about rule breaks, or even if some of our reports have been posted to their forums. We do not know what is going on, we do not know anything about the team. The team is a group of enigmatic people that we are supposed to believe are fair and balanced in all their doings. The problem with this is, of course, that they are human. Humans make mistakes, humans change their minds, humans have personal biases. The DMs are not infallible, they are not the perfect all knowing beings they are treated as.

Getting a response from the team is worse than pulling a 4 foot spike out of 3 feet of concrete. Half the time all I need to hear from them is a no. It takes like 5 minutes, you can do it on your phone while you're getting a snack. It isn't hard. You get an email when I PM you, just say no. You don't even need to give me a reason, but I just want to know that you didn't just ignore me. How many players have lost PCs because they've gotten themselves into a situation where they need a DM and the DMs don't respond? How many players have had a really cool idea for their PC, tried to get a DM in on it, and then heard nothing back? Or, now hear me out, how many players have tried to get something from a DM, not gotten it, and then seen another player get what you wanted two weeks later? What is going on behind the screen? Because I'll be honest, and this is like 90% based on my own feelings, though I've had a few friends I've talked to about this, it really, really feels like the DMs pick favorites. It really feels like the DMs favor their friends and leave the rest of probably a good 400 players high and dry. I'm not saying the team does this, but I am saying it feels like it. It certainly feels like the team makes decisions that actually hurt players and RP, and then throw a bandaid explanation on top. It certainly feels like the DMs are trying their hardest to make us all play the same way. For example, outcast RP sucks. And iirc a dev once said "well being an outcast isn't supposed to be pleasant, you signed up for this", but the problem with that logic is, and I can't stress this enough, what's the point of playing something if it isn't fun? Why do you even allow outcasts to exist if you don't want them to be fun to play?

Do you want your players to have fun or is this a sick game?

zDark Shadowz

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My review:

I like this game. I wish I had more time to play.

Alan Hunter

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My review:

I like this game. I wish I had more time to play.

You and me both lol
"For Evil to win is for good men to do nothing."

Raven Credale

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Review:

I enjoy this server and community much more than the community I had previously been apart of for three years. Been coming up to being here for a year now come February, and I have to say there is still a lot of things I want to try. A lot of idea that are still running though my head and a lot of character concepts I want to try out and have fun with while still having some fun interactions with other players to help shape the PC's I do decide to keep out after level 5.

All in all, 8.5 outta 10.
Would be 10 outta 10, but life of a responsible adult prevents me from goofing off for extreme periods of time.

Alan Hunter

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Review:

I enjoy this server and community much more than the community I had previously been apart of for three years. Been coming up to being here for a year now come February, and I have to say there is still a lot of things I want to try. A lot of idea that are still running though my head and a lot of character concepts I want to try out and have fun with while still having some fun interactions with other players to help shape the PC's I do decide to keep out after level 5.

All in all, 8.5 outta 10.
Would be 10 outta 10, but life of a responsible adult prevents me from goofing off for extreme periods of time.

What was your previous game like? How does it compare to POTM? I'm curious to know if your willing.
"For Evil to win is for good men to do nothing."

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Bavenboft

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The server takes a game that I was nostalgic for and loved and made it into something that is fun, interactive, dynamic, and sustainable. The approach to the game that has had the most success for me has been to develop and drive avenues of RP that attract and interact with a larger part of the player base as well as help reinforce the setting and creating narrative & tension. The player base is what makes the game successful, including our DM and CC team, and is what maintains the immersive environment and upholds the challenging yet inspiring and evocative themes of gothic horror.

Recommendation for new players: maintain an open mind, learn from others in character as often as possible (and when that does not suffice, out of character (through forums, discord, private messages in game), and enjoy the experience.
Gianna Valentina, Curate of the Refuge of the Fifth Light

Merry Munchkin

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it really, really feels like the DMs pick favorites. It really feels like the DMs favor their friends and leave the rest of probably a good 400 players high and dry. I'm not saying the team does this, but I am saying it feels like it. . . .  It certainly feels like the DMs are trying their hardest to make us all play the same way. For example, outcast RP sucks. And iirc a dev once said "well being an outcast isn't supposed to be pleasant, you signed up for this", but the problem with that logic is, and I can't stress this enough, what's the point of playing something if it isn't fun? Why do you even allow outcasts to exist if you don't want them to be fun to play?

Do you want your players to have fun or is this a sick game?

I have experienced similar frustrations in the past, but after giving myself a day or two to decompress, I usually conclude that the DMs and Developers are probably right.  Not necessarily perfect all the time, but one of the nice things is that everyone is usually pretty open to revisiting old topics with a new eye, if someone raises a new perspective.  They might not adopt the solution you are advocating for, but they will usually come up with some sort of solution to address the concern being raised.

As far as playing favorites, as an old timer recently returned to the server, I can't recall any of my suggestions ever being adopted but that doesn't stop me from making them -- I don't think that anyone disliked me personally, but given that you probably have several hundred suggestions on tap at any given moment, 99.99% of them are likely to never see the light of day just because nobody has the bandwidth to deal with them all.  Even if they look at a suggestion, they have to balance (1) time and resources, (2) feasibility from a scripting or coding perspective, (3) and overall value to the server (i.e. bang for the buck).  You might have a great little idea, but it does not become a priority because of any one of the above three criteria (or any combination thereof).

As to the last point, I suppose this becomes a matter of perspective:  some people choose to play characters on the margins of "civilized" society precisely because of the marginalization and persecution they face, since they want to RP that type of flavor.  Others might want to play a half-orc or tiefling because it is fun, but don't want to deal with all of the social baggage that comes with that choice -- unfortunately, the negatives come hand-in-hand with the positives, because all the other players and DMs alike are RPing the marginalization and persecution aspects whether you want to or not.  Just like there is a lot of social baggage that comes with playing a wizard or sorcerer in Barovia.  It should not be viewed as a "bug" but a "feature" of these types of characters.

Personally, my playstyle has evolved considerably over the years.  I started out in my misspent youth as a dungeon-grinder, and things that got in the way of speedy leveling and dungeon runs were a powerful annoyance to me.  As the years have rolled by, I found myself not caring much for dungeon running unless there was a story behind it, and gravitating more and more to more detailed RP with other players. Thus, for my playstyle, rolling up a caliban and dealing with societal abuse would not be disconcerting to me (in fact, it would be fodder for some great RP opportunities, although I would also have to accept the fact that I may level up more slowly than others do).  I recognize, however, that players who may not be as devoted to the RP aspect of these types of characters might like to be able to interact normally with the humans of the world, but unfortunately the rest of the world (with some exceptions) are not likely to break-character that way.


Burleigh Burrowell - RIP

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 I've been very critical of the staff over the years myself and have largely only interacted with them when I've committed some infraction or another. I've even been wronged, mocked, or otherwise antagonized in the past, though make no claim to complete innocence. However... while the DM team does not actively engage the community, they -do- open invitations to more controlled events all the time. And whatever generation of DMs that are currently active seem to be friendly and helpful, though I've never accepted any broad-faced invitation for whatever reason. I feel like a dog whose been kicked too much and just prefers to avoid 'the masters' and focus on what fun can be generated between myself and others in my social strata. Toward that end I love the community, but have grown weary of much of the PvE content. I'm almost purely RP focused these days. If the PvE was more... thematically dynamic dungeon spawns, rather than the static 1 (or 2) variation style that exists, I'd likely lace my boots up again and incorporate those acquisitions.

 Its hard to rate Ravenloft due to the varying facets you can engage and focus on.

 PvE... 3/5   (dungeons get old when you've ran through them a few times- but there are a lot to discover.)
 PvP... 2/5   (due to the nature of corpse hiding, and no holds barred entry- its intense, but often dissatisfying to the losing party. There's no method of meaningful escalation and squirmishes. Its eat or be eaten unless you thoroughly vet your 'dance partners'. In the case of AMPCs.. I'll give a 4/5. The culture tends toward proper escalation. i.e. no immediate corpse hiding.)
 RP... 4/5   (the mechanics support and enhance RP through the roof. Its just a shame that many systems and rules stifle creativity and antagonization at the gate. And without meaningful conflict, RP suffers)
 Learning Curve...  2/5  (staggering amounts of info, and no effective 'intro' or 'tutorial' area for new players. They are dumped in the outskirts and happenstance.)
 Staff/Public Relations...  ?/5  (I've actively avoided them for years due to past experiences. So I don't feel its fair of me to rate. That said- 2/5. Would love to see more 'behind the doors' instead of being treated like untermensch.)
 Community...  4/5   (no other collective of artistic minds exist in a gaming community to my knowledge. Only hindered by certain cultures of misgiving or the illusion of exclusion.)

 Overall 10/10    would spend another decade here. I'm also bad at maffs.

DaloLorn

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I didn't want to respond to Munchkin's post alone, but now that there's two posts drawing my attention... :lol:

(Spoilered out the parts I'm not replying to!)

it really, really feels like the DMs pick favorites. It really feels like the DMs favor their friends and leave the rest of probably a good 400 players high and dry. I'm not saying the team does this, but I am saying it feels like it. . . .  It certainly feels like the DMs are trying their hardest to make us all play the same way. For example, outcast RP sucks. And iirc a dev once said "well being an outcast isn't supposed to be pleasant, you signed up for this", but the problem with that logic is, and I can't stress this enough, what's the point of playing something if it isn't fun? Why do you even allow outcasts to exist if you don't want them to be fun to play?

Do you want your players to have fun or is this a sick game?

Spoiler: show
I have experienced similar frustrations in the past, but after giving myself a day or two to decompress, I usually conclude that the DMs and Developers are probably right.  Not necessarily perfect all the time, but one of the nice things is that everyone is usually pretty open to revisiting old topics with a new eye, if someone raises a new perspective.  They might not adopt the solution you are advocating for, but they will usually come up with some sort of solution to address the concern being raised.

As far as playing favorites, as an old timer recently returned to the server, I can't recall any of my suggestions ever being adopted but that doesn't stop me from making them -- I don't think that anyone disliked me personally, but given that you probably have several hundred suggestions on tap at any given moment, 99.99% of them are likely to never see the light of day just because nobody has the bandwidth to deal with them all.  Even if they look at a suggestion, they have to balance (1) time and resources, (2) feasibility from a scripting or coding perspective, (3) and overall value to the server (i.e. bang for the buck).  You might have a great little idea, but it does not become a priority because of any one of the above three criteria (or any combination thereof).


As to the last point, I suppose this becomes a matter of perspective:  some people choose to play characters on the margins of "civilized" society precisely because of the marginalization and persecution they face, since they want to RP that type of flavor.  Others might want to play a half-orc or tiefling because it is fun, but don't want to deal with all of the social baggage that comes with that choice -- unfortunately, the negatives come hand-in-hand with the positives, because all the other players and DMs alike are RPing the marginalization and persecution aspects whether you want to or not.  Just like there is a lot of social baggage that comes with playing a wizard or sorcerer in Barovia.  It should not be viewed as a "bug" but a "feature" of these types of characters.

Personally, my playstyle has evolved considerably over the years.  I started out in my misspent youth as a dungeon-grinder, and things that got in the way of speedy leveling and dungeon runs were a powerful annoyance to me.  As the years have rolled by, I found myself not caring much for dungeon running unless there was a story behind it, and gravitating more and more to more detailed RP with other players. Thus, for my playstyle, rolling up a caliban and dealing with societal abuse would not be disconcerting to me (in fact, it would be fodder for some great RP opportunities, although I would also have to accept the fact that I may level up more slowly than others do).  I recognize, however, that players who may not be as devoted to the RP aspect of these types of characters might like to be able to interact normally with the humans of the world, but unfortunately the rest of the world (with some exceptions) are not likely to break-character that way.

To me, it's never been about the social baggage. The social baggage is okay, it's expected, and I sometimes even find myself disappointed by how little of it some of my characters have had to deal with. But it's an undeniable fact that the mechanics are also extremely punitive, in ways that really could be avoided with little to no negative impact. (Heck, it might even be a positive impact if they do it right!)

Take Aeryn, for instance. As a half-drow, she is permanently barred from the only non-OCR tailoring station she's expected to see until level 10 (longer in her case, since she's giving Port a wide berth until she starts to get over her issues). Worse, the alternative isn't even non-OCR, it's just that her base OCR in Dementlieu is a lot more manageable. A tiefling or dragon disciple might literally have no way to get into tailoring, anywhere on the server. Do all the outcasts just steal new clothes whenever they need them? How do many of them survive the Core's harsh winters like that?

Similarly, enchanting has no underground alternative to the University and Red Academy. Enchanting. There's all sorts of mad mages running about, building sophisticated laboratories throughout the Core, but not one magical outcast in the history of the Core has ever thought to even half-ass an enchanting station, even for their own uses?

I've been very critical of the staff over the years myself and have largely only interacted with them when I've committed some infraction or another. I've even been wronged, mocked, or otherwise antagonized in the past, though make no claim to complete innocence. However... while the DM team does not actively engage the community, they -do- open invitations to more controlled events all the time. And whatever generation of DMs that are currently active seem to be friendly and helpful, though I've never accepted any broad-faced invitation for whatever reason. I feel like a dog whose been kicked too much and just prefers to avoid 'the masters' and focus on what fun can be generated between myself and others in my social strata. Toward that end I love the community, but have grown weary of much of the PvE content. I'm almost purely RP focused these days. If the PvE was more... thematically dynamic dungeon spawns, rather than the static 1 (or 2) variation style that exists, I'd likely lace my boots up again and incorporate those acquisitions.

 Its hard to rate Ravenloft due to the varying facets you can engage and focus on.

 PvE... 3/5   (dungeons get old when you've ran through them a few times- but there are a lot to discover.)
 PvP... 2/5   (due to the nature of corpse hiding, and no holds barred entry- its intense, but often dissatisfying to the losing party. There's no method of meaningful escalation and squirmishes. Its eat or be eaten unless you thoroughly vet your 'dance partners'. In the case of AMPCs.. I'll give a 4/5. The culture tends toward proper escalation. i.e. no immediate corpse hiding.)
 RP... 4/5   (the mechanics support and enhance RP through the roof. Its just a shame that many systems and rules stifle creativity and antagonization at the gate. And without meaningful conflict, RP suffers)
 Learning Curve...  2/5  (staggering amounts of info, and no effective 'intro' or 'tutorial' area for new players. They are dumped in the outskirts and happenstance.)
 Staff/Public Relations...  ?/5  (I've actively avoided them for years due to past experiences. So I don't feel its fair of me to rate. That said- 2/5. Would love to see more 'behind the doors' instead of being treated like untermensch.)
 Community...  4/5   (no other collective of artistic minds exist in a gaming community to my knowledge. Only hindered by certain cultures of misgiving or the illusion of exclusion.)

 Overall 10/10    would spend another decade here. I'm also bad at maffs.

I basically agree with everything you've said, except I'm not yet sick of the PvE content yet. (There are entire domains out there that I've never explored in my year on the server. :lol:)
European RPer, never available past 22:00 CET. Available on Discord, as Dalo Lorn#0171. Has too many characters to list.

Cast of Characters

Merry Munchkin

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A tiefling or dragon disciple might literally have no way to get into tailoring, anywhere on the server. Do all the outcasts just steal new clothes whenever they need them? How do many of them survive the Core's harsh winters like that?

Similarly, enchanting has no underground alternative to the University and Red Academy. Enchanting. There's all sorts of mad mages running about, building sophisticated laboratories throughout the Core, but not one magical outcast in the history of the Core has ever thought to even half-ass an enchanting station, even for their own uses?


Valid points.  Something equivalent to the Mad Dok for other crafts might be a worthwhile change, although per the theme of being an outcast, the range of options available would probably be more limited, right?  (Because they have to beg, borrow, or steal a lot of raw materials, since they can't simply go buy them like "normal" characters).  For example, a tailoring station might have only the "plain" weaving tablet available, or maybe even no tablets available, because outcasts can't get access to tablets easily.  I have, in the past, RP'd my surface character as a go-between for outcasts in the Drain (i.e. I go out and get crafting stuff for them, in exchange for goodies they have collected).  So some limits on crafting are not necessarily a bad thing since it could (and should) lead to more great RP, although it does rely on the RP skills of other surfacers to work right.  However, the one thing you can't beg, borrow, or steal is the crafting station itself, so I would agree that having accessible stations is a worthwhile change, even if there are no crafting materials available for purchase at those stations.

As far as the game ratings go, I think:
PvE - 4/5 (I haven't explored all the new content that was added since I was last a regular)
PvP - no rating (I generally don't engage in PvP, although the last time I did it long long ago it was a blast, but that was entirely dependent on the quality of the other players)
RP - 4/5 (it would be 5/5 for the other excellent players that RP well, but there are a few running around that spoil immersion from time to time)
Learning Curve - 3/5 (the wiki and forums are very helpful, and you can glean a LOT of the mechanics by doing some diligent searches, but this requires patience, and for players that are eager to level up quickly, sometimes their ambitions may outpace their learning curve.  However, I view this as a self-inflicted hardship.  Go slow, and you can figure out how builds and mechanics work without too much trouble).
Staff/Public Relations - 4/5 (I have never had a bad issue with any DMs or Developers.  There are disputes/arguments, but I have found that mature and patient dialog is reciprocated.  If you go off on a rant, you will get shut down, and some may take this personally, but that is true of most any other forum you might be in).
Community - 5/5 (there will always be a few bad eggs, and everybody else will have their bad days, but overall I am most impressed by the quality and maturity of player on this server).

Overall - 4.5/5 (there is always room for improvement, but overall an excellent experience returning from a lengthy hiatus)


Burleigh Burrowell - RIP

tylernwn

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My Review:
I think the server is well made, and I have enjoyed it for years. There are certainly some things that could be improved, but they are very specific points and I won't make a laundry list of them here.

Alan Hunter

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Honestly surprises me some used this post thread. Frankly as I was skimming to do some things and prepare for an apology thread and possibly my closure of a character, I admit moments like these where I see such honest to heart thoughts on a pos that I could help on make this a bit more worth wild to me. I'm kind of happy someone found some use out of this and that in some way I was at least a bit constructive to the community. I hope to hear more of your thoughts I wish you all the best and keep an open mind.
"For Evil to win is for good men to do nothing."

GiganticHowlslime

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Server's got incredible potential. Players are mostly great, easily approached, and friendly OOC. Even in Port, surprisingly. Dungeon and world design is top notch, and my most fun was gradually exploring and mapping out as much of this world as I could.
Have had little to no interaction with DMs, and when I finally did, I ended up hitting burnout point due to circumstances mostly outside the DMs control.

Would love to see more GMT-time DMs, and effort to engage and support players outside the bubbles of Port and closed faction spaces. Alongside my own struggles to get any DM response to player-run events, I was aware of so many excellent RPers with great Gothic Horror concepts and deep, vivid RP skills that never get so much as a mote of DM interaction, whilst the event boards and shout channels overflow with information about events supporting what usually appear to be the same small groups of French aristocrats in Port. I can't understate how appreciated it would be if maybe one in four of these fancy ceremonies, dances, galas, theatre shows, etc, instead went into supporting the little guys still trying to do Gothic Horror.

Spoiler: show
Would also be really cool if high level characters would stop sitting in the Outskirts with buffed up summons and all their combat stuff ready. C'mon. Stop it. Don't make DMs not want to run low-level events because the Edgelord Justice League is hanging around there at full power.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2022, 05:03:25 AM by GiganticHowlslime »
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Kleomenes

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whilst the event boards and shout channels overflow with information about events supporting what usually appear to be the same small groups of French aristocrats in Port. I can't understate how appreciated it would be if maybe one in four of these fancy ceremonies, dances, galas, theatre shows, etc, instead went into supporting the little guys still trying to do Gothic Horror.

Not to deny your experience, as I've been in the GMT barovian wasteland myself, but many of those port events are entirely player run, and the DM support is literally a shout, and thats it. Or some brief set up help. Other times an NPC or two might come (and its highly appreciated!) but they are at their heart player run events and player driven events.

I just wouldn't want you to think that all the player driven activity in port is in fact born of dms. They are (kindly) supporting what is there.  There are less Barovian based player events I find.

Maffa

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whilst the event boards and shout channels overflow with information about events supporting what usually appear to be the same small groups of French aristocrats in Port. I can't understate how appreciated it would be if maybe one in four of these fancy ceremonies, dances, galas, theatre shows, etc, instead went into supporting the little guys still trying to do Gothic Horror.

Not to deny your experience, as I've been in the GMT barovian wasteland myself, but many of those port events are entirely player run, and the DM support is literally a shout, and thats it. Or some brief set up help. Other times an NPC or two might come (and its highly appreciated!) but they are at their heart player run events and player driven events.

I just wouldn't want you to think that all the player driven activity in port is in fact born of dms. They are (kindly) supporting what is there.  There are less Barovian based player events I find.

I honestly thought every shouted event had a DM interest in them. We as a faction hold events, and many other factions and singles also have, but never had the benefit of a shout so i honestly thought they were DM sponsored... it might have to do with the fact that the default place to be is vallaki and if something happens somewhere else Dm prefer to facilitate movement away from vallaki than the reverse i guess. Thanks for the information!


Character List:

Marph - Closured
Marius Rucescu - Closured
Romeo Lascaris - Closured

Day Old Bread

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whilst the event boards and shout channels overflow with information about events supporting what usually appear to be the same small groups of French aristocrats in Port. I can't understate how appreciated it would be if maybe one in four of these fancy ceremonies, dances, galas, theatre shows, etc, instead went into supporting the little guys still trying to do Gothic Horror.

Not to deny your experience, as I've been in the GMT barovian wasteland myself, but many of those port events are entirely player run, and the DM support is literally a shout, and thats it. Or some brief set up help. Other times an NPC or two might come (and its highly appreciated!) but they are at their heart player run events and player driven events.

I just wouldn't want you to think that all the player driven activity in port is in fact born of dms. They are (kindly) supporting what is there.  There are less Barovian based player events I find.

And this should be taken as a lesson to those who continuously bemoan the fact that Port gets more DM attention than Vallaki.  It simply isn't true, but the way to make it appear as such is to create more player driven events.  Unfortunately, I've rarely seen people take the initiative to do things out that way.

You will also notice a stark contrast in the types of shops and warehouse rentals you'll find in Vallaki vs. Port.  Port shops are regularly used to host events. Warehouses are converted to bars and businesses. Storefronts are converted to theaters or spas or country clubs (these are all very recent developments but I've seen a wide variety of different storefronts in Port over the years they've been available)

Basically, the port scene is using rentals to create player driven events whereas the Vallaki rentals are being used as very low key, intimate style RP that doesn't generate a lot of buzz.

Just observations here take them for what they're worth. One isn't better than the other, it just helps lend to the perception or misconception that one area is getting more love than another.

Cassius

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I honestly thought every shouted event had a DM interest in them. We as a faction hold events, and many other factions and singles also have, but never had the benefit of a shout so i honestly thought they were DM sponsored... it might have to do with the fact that the default place to be is vallaki and if something happens somewhere else Dm prefer to facilitate movement away from vallaki than the reverse i guess. Thanks for the information!
It's usually because players request a shout for an event that we do them. Fat majority of the time that's all we do for these and we don't interfere any further.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2022, 09:29:09 AM by DM Tenebris »

Maffa

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I honestly thought every shouted event had a DM interest in them. We as a faction hold events, and many other factions and singles also have, but never had the benefit of a shout so i honestly thought they were DM sponsored... it might have to do with the fact that the default place to be is vallaki and if something happens somewhere else Dm prefer to facilitate movement away from vallaki than the reverse i guess. Thanks for the information!
It's usually because players request a shout for an event that we do them. Fat majority of the time that's all we do for these and we don't interfere any further.

Again, didnt know it was a thing...


Character List:

Marph - Closured
Marius Rucescu - Closured
Romeo Lascaris - Closured

Alan Hunter

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I honestly thought every shouted event had a DM interest in them. We as a faction hold events, and many other factions and singles also have, but never had the benefit of a shout so i honestly thought they were DM sponsored... it might have to do with the fact that the default place to be is vallaki and if something happens somewhere else Dm prefer to facilitate movement away from vallaki than the reverse i guess. Thanks for the information!
It's usually because players request a shout for an event that we do them. Fat majority of the time that's all we do for these and we don't interfere any further.

Apologies but I'm curious. What of the requests of those non-popular? How often can one expect a prompt response? What does one do when a  DM does not assist with a shout and sets them to do so with out aid? As my fellow community member mentions facts are people bemoan Port. Having been a member of the Dloo region before and somewhat ushered out. I can't  completely agree with my fellow player as there are right concerns that you more often see and witness DM interference to such events. Many see this in concern for equitability so how do we dispell this misconception? I don't think it's entirely any one's fault but if this is the conception of several views is it not a concern for others to take responsibility for their rileplay in Dloo?
"For Evil to win is for good men to do nothing."

Cassius

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Apologies but I'm curious. What of the requests of those non-popular? How often can one expect a prompt response? What does one do when a  DM does not assist with a shout and sets them to do so with out aid? As my fellow community member mentions facts are people bemoan Port. Having been a member of the Dloo region before and somewhat ushered out. I can't  completely agree with my fellow player as there are right concerns that you more often see and witness DM interference to such events. Many see this in concern for equitability so how do we dispell this misconception? I don't think it's entirely any one's fault but if this is the conception of several views is it not a concern for others to take responsibility for their rileplay in Dloo?

If no DM is available to assist with the request to help advertise your event, then that's that and you have to make do accordingly and advertise ICly on your own rather than rely on a DM to do it for you. There have been other events in Port that have been left without a shout before. If your event is meant to generate roleplay to a broad audience, you are likely to have a DM do a shout for you (if they're available), whether or not it's located in Port-a-Lucine or Vallaki. Remember that this is done out of courtesy and not out of obligation.

To add to another point; the reason NPCs do not often attend Vallaki events in the same way as in Port is that they're seldom Vallaki-centric, more Outlander initiative, and Barovians are xenophobic so it's more respect to the setting that one doesn't often see an important NPC in attendance.

As a side note there is also a total of 2 active DMs that do Port-centric roleplay, while the rest of the team hardly, if ever, dabbles in it directly.

GiganticHowlslime

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And this should be taken as a lesson to those who continuously bemoan the fact that Port gets more DM attention than Vallaki.  It simply isn't true, but the way to make it appear as such is to create more player driven events.  Unfortunately, I've rarely seen people take the initiative to do things out that way.

I'm one of those people you say you 'rarely see'. I tried to do a player-driven event. Advertised it on any channel I knew about for two weeks. Got about a dozen people to turn up, and was hoping to tie it to faction RP for the Erudites, as several players I'd spoken to felt they couldn't find any IC 'in' to that group, which had been a catalyst for this event. If a vampire hadn't cut out my tongue two days into the organisation, I'd be been screaming about it from the rooftops, rather than just throwing posters at things. Damned vampires! They were a blight upon my ability to advertise!

My experience was that when the day came, a DM was apparently supporting an impromptu event in Port for some important PCs, and then dropped a 30m reset as soon as they finished there. This really badly disrupted our schedule, meaning we needed to desperately run up a mountain, rather than atmospherically climb it, and meant that several people couldn't attend it as they'd hoped to due to the disruption in time. No DM attended the event.

Afterwards, I left a request for a DM to contact if they could provide any context or information we may have found in our investigations. The request timed out and was deleted without any response.

This experience led to me cancelling my plans to do other events, as it was emotionally draining to face that utter radio silence and apparent indifference to the effort I was putting in, but I regret now judging my success more on whether any DM would respond to or support us, as the real quest reward should have been the friends we made along the way.

But it did set a tone for me, mentally, that whilst a culmination of two weeks of planning involving dozens of PCs could not get a response or acknowledgement, events were being spontaneously thrown for established Port characters. I don't pretend that I have the full picture behind this, and I know full well that DMs probably simply find it impossible to juggle a hundred players and their individual wants and needs, but please don't assume that the difference between haves and have-nots is the lack of trying to do everything right. Sometimes it's just bad luck, a blight of bad timezones, or maybe the DMs (how dare they) just have friends they prefer to hang around with rather than a bunch of noobs they've never met.

None of this is unforgiveable or wrong, and none of this is something the DMs should feel attacked for the discussion of, so I hope that's not the impression I'm giving. My suggestion is simply to put thought into covering an uncovered timezone, and maybe attempt to push more interaction onto players that might feel left outside in the cold.

I'm still looking forward to coming on back in the future with lowered aspirations and goals, because the atmosphere and relationships between characters is more than worth the frustration of slamming into that brick wall of being an unimportant PC, and no other NWN server provides the good times as well as Ravenloft does.
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EO

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Quote
None of this is unforgiveable or wrong, and none of this is something the DMs should feel attacked for the discussion of, so I hope that's not the impression I'm giving. My suggestion is simply to put thought into covering an uncovered timezone, and maybe attempt to push more interaction onto players that might feel left outside in the cold.

So, how do you propose DMs cover an uncovered timezone?

Quote
My experience was that when the day came, a DM was apparently supporting an impromptu event in Port for some important PCs, and then dropped a 30m reset as soon as they finished there. This really badly disrupted our schedule, meaning we needed to desperately run up a mountain, rather than atmospherically climb it, and meant that several people couldn't attend it as they'd hoped to due to the disruption in time. No DM attended the event.

Had you asked DMs to announce your event? DMs don't read minds, nor do they have time to scour the forums and every Discord looking for players who might need assistance. You have to be proactive and reach out, and perhaps a DM will have the time/interest to pick it up; if not, you make do without.

There's also a major difference between providing basic scenery support + a shout for a player-ran event and running an event or a plot for a group of players or a faction. DMs also usually aren't interested in telling others' stories, so while they might possess a NPC here and there, they won't tell your story; they'd rather tell their own.