Faction RP XP (Level 14+)

[dutchy]

*throws all sorts of cents around mainly 2 cents*

Barovia-
Has the rp xp cap worked
yes
should we be happy it worked?
unsure

Mist camp-
Glad it got the overhaul but it is still nowhere near a functional hub.

The Port-
most that know ol dutchy knows ol dutchy has always been vocal about not liking the place.
Doesn't mean it is usefull and good for those that do like an appreciate the place.

suggestion and remarks:
let me start with a remark, yes it is a ongoing joke that after lvl 14 you need to learn HM (high mordentish) cause else you got little to nothing to do in the port, as ooc they try to be as inclusive as possible, but let's face it ic shows a whole different story.
why are people shoved towards other places?

my suggestion would be, vallaki,outskirts, keep them under the rp xp cap, maybe even lower it more.
surrounding regions remove the cap.

that way you divert the high lvls from the gathering place of the lowbies and the hunting grounds of the mpcs and ampcs.
but you also open up or reopen barovia for those that fell in love with the server for what their first experiences where. (which was/is barovia)

by diverting the stream of high lvls that way, they won't mix more then they do now with the lowbies, and it would stop these topics from popping up every so often.

don't forget there are several faction within barovia that are based there.
so you will always get and gain high lvl traffic, i always felt that the playerbase on this issue isn't heard, and that the staff is being very rigid in it's approach to this issue.
no need for it, am sure we can come to a common consensus which pleases both parties.

[Day Old Bread]

*throws all sorts of cents around mainly 2 cents*

Barovia-
Has the rp xp cap worked
yes
should we be happy it worked?
unsure

Mist camp-
Glad it got the overhaul but it is still nowhere near a functional hub.

The Port-
most that know ol dutchy knows ol dutchy has always been vocal about not liking the place.
Doesn't mean it is usefull and good for those that do like an appreciate the place.

suggestion and remarks:
let me start with a remark, yes it is a ongoing joke that after lvl 14 you need to learn HM (high mordentish) cause else you got little to nothing to do in the port, as ooc they try to be as inclusive as possible, but let's face it ic shows a whole different story.
why are people shoved towards other places?

my suggestion would be, vallaki,outskirts, keep them under the rp xp cap, maybe even lower it more.
surrounding regions remove the cap.

that way you divert the high lvls from the gathering place of the lowbies and the hunting grounds of the mpcs and ampcs.
but you also open up or reopen barovia for those that fell in love with the server for what their first experiences where. (which was/is barovia)

by diverting the stream of high lvls that way, they won't mix more then they do now with the lowbies, and it would stop these topics from popping up every so often.

don't forget there are several faction within barovia that are based there.
so you will always get and gain high lvl traffic, i always felt that the playerbase on this issue isn't heard, and that the staff is being very rigid in it's approach to this issue.
no need for it, am sure we can come to a common consensus which pleases both parties.

I like the idea of making that no RP XP bubble smaller.  Maybe have it extend to all of those areas surrounding vallaki and the outskirts 2-3 tiles out in any direction maybe? Remove places like Krezk outpost, Kroftburg, Midway Haven and even Berez from the RP XP cap?  Could, in theory, remove the option to take the ferry back to Vallaki from any of those places while still allowing it to go out to them for those who wanted to travel quickly in that direction.

As I understand it, everything beyond the mist bank near Castle Ravenloft are already excluded from the RP XP cap.  Maybe this would satisfy people?

[SardineTheAncestor]

I agree most with Rocket even if it seems off topic.

XP is nothing, hubs are the bane of RP, levels do not equal fun nor do they amount to much of anything.

Overthinking character progression by appealing to the caveman brain that level 20 or even level 15 is required to have fun was a serious oversight. I hope one day it will be reverted. The reality is people are just farming PvP safety but they'll never be satisfied. This is what they are incentivised to do, when they could be RPing about anything else, besides talking every 15 minutes briefly to discuss what buffs they want. If they aren't on VOIP, completely ignoring their environment and players outside their chattersphere...

The server doesn't need a 5 year plan, it doesn't need all these bells and whistles. It needs a lower level cap. Vallaki isn't the only place where 15+ is unnecessary and is complicating matters more than it should. Those who want to have more fun in dungeons too will find that balance will be tighter too.

Ignore the post for being off topic if you want. I'm reposting this precisely because faction RP XP is nothing short of a compromise, and XP itself is not and should never be the main motivator of RP. The reward factor only exists because XP has no place in RP and people overthink it. RP is for RP's sake. RP for XP's sake is not RP, it's playing an MMO with RP sprinkled in where convenient.

None of the areas mentioned will be revived if RP XP comes back, certainly not by a snap of the fingers. They are dead and have to start anew, you can't shock paddle them with RP XP. They died when plots died and players quit out of frustration, either over XP addiction or over feelings of abandonment. Vallaki only holds on by an (RP XP) thread (every few months going nowhere) because it's the conveyor belt all new players fall off of. Some do stay and invest long term. Some come back periodically to stoke the fire. But the full package I was talking about is not there and it'll always be stained by the "high levels get out" mentality until high levels are removed. Not the players of high levels, they've never been the problem. It's the levels themselves, and that is to say nothing of the players who can ruin the atmosphere no matter what level they are, by mistake or on purpose. Take away the high levels who can always rescue them unopposed and you eliminate one of their vectors of infection. All this you may disagree with - you are entitled to your opinion, don't get me wrong - but RP XP wouldn't even be a bandaid against the wound to atmosphere that is having to walk on eggshells or accidentally blow up the monster of the week.

[SwordChucks]

*throws all sorts of cents around mainly 2 cents*

Barovia-
Has the rp xp cap worked
yes
should we be happy it worked?
unsure

Mist camp-
Glad it got the overhaul but it is still nowhere near a functional hub.

The Port-
most that know ol dutchy knows ol dutchy has always been vocal about not liking the place.
Doesn't mean it is usefull and good for those that do like an appreciate the place.

suggestion and remarks:
let me start with a remark, yes it is a ongoing joke that after lvl 14 you need to learn HM (high mordentish) cause else you got little to nothing to do in the port, as ooc they try to be as inclusive as possible, but let's face it ic shows a whole different story.
why are people shoved towards other places?

my suggestion would be, vallaki,outskirts, keep them under the rp xp cap, maybe even lower it more.
surrounding regions remove the cap.

that way you divert the high lvls from the gathering place of the lowbies and the hunting grounds of the mpcs and ampcs.
but you also open up or reopen barovia for those that fell in love with the server for what their first experiences where. (which was/is barovia)

by diverting the stream of high lvls that way, they won't mix more then they do now with the lowbies, and it would stop these topics from popping up every so often.

don't forget there are several faction within barovia that are based there.
so you will always get and gain high lvl traffic, i always felt that the playerbase on this issue isn't heard, and that the staff is being very rigid in it's approach to this issue.
no need for it, am sure we can come to a common consensus which pleases both parties.

I like the idea of making that no RP XP bubble smaller.  Maybe have it extend to all of those areas surrounding vallaki and the outskirts 2-3 tiles out in any direction maybe? Remove places like Krezk outpost, Kroftburg, Midway Haven and even Berez from the RP XP cap?  Could, in theory, remove the option to take the ferry back to Vallaki from any of those places while still allowing it to go out to them for those who wanted to travel quickly in that direction.

As I understand it, everything beyond the mist bank near Castle Ravenloft are already excluded from the RP XP cap.  Maybe this would satisfy people?

I like this idea, but I think what more then a few folks would like to see if VoB turned into the Barovian "Regular" RP Hub.. and yes, I get this doesn't quite fit in with the lore.. but neither does Perfidus, and frankly foot traffic in VoB is so limited (outside of dungeons) I don't see it hurting to much. Frankly, the RP behavior in VoB if it were a hub should be a bit more controlled, and if it wasn't a DM could easily slap that down with some real threats.

But.. you would need to move some faction bases over there, or at least create some new faction hubs .. ie. Garda, WFK, RV.. throw in a bank..

Again, how about conceding that some people like to RP in Barovia, so why not just cater to that group, the same way Port, or Hazlan are catered to, and provide folks equal oppurtunity to RP and be RPXP rewarded for it, if they dont want their PCs to leave Barovia..

[Iolantir]

XP is nothing, hubs are the bane of RP, levels do not equal fun nor do they amount to much of anything.

This is objectively false, or the change to RP XP in Vallaki would have never been made in the first place.

Overthinking character progression by appealing to the caveman brain that level 20 or even level 15 is required to have fun was a serious oversight.

I don't know where it was ever said that level 15-20 is required to have fun. This thread has a lot of offtopic in it, so let's not add strawman arguments to it.


Overall, I'm of the belief that RPXP should be rewarded uniformly. If that's RPXP is given everywhere at 14+, awesome. If it's that there's no RPXP anywhere at 14+, also awesome. The Faction RPXP suggestion was somewhat of a middleground, but it's clear the only real solution would be an all-or-nothing for 14+, and not haves-and-havenots.

[SwordChucks]

XP is nothing, hubs are the bane of RP, levels do not equal fun nor do they amount to much of anything.

This is objectively false, or the change to RP XP in Vallaki would have never been made in the first place.

Overthinking character progression by appealing to the caveman brain that level 20 or even level 15 is required to have fun was a serious oversight.

I don't know where it was ever said that level 15-20 is required to have fun. This thread has a lot of offtopic in it, so let's not add strawman arguments to it.


Overall, I'm of the belief that RPXP should be rewarded uniformly. If that's RPXP is given everywhere at 14+, awesome. If it's that there's no RPXP anywhere at 14+, also awesome. The Faction RPXP suggestion was somewhat of a middleground, but it's clear the only real solution would be an all-or-nothing for 14+, and not haves-and-havenots.

I appreciate the intent of the faction hub suggestion, I know it came from a place trying to find a middle ground, but I think your conclusion is right, it should be fair for all regardless of where you decide to call home.

[SardineTheAncestor]

XP is nothing, hubs are the bane of RP, levels do not equal fun nor do they amount to much of anything.

This is objectively false, or the change to RP XP in Vallaki would have never been made in the first place.

Levels amount to combat strength, which is not much of anything when it comes to RP. The numbers getting bigger does not make RP more satisfying and do not make your character more like themselves.

Overthinking character progression by appealing to the caveman brain that level 20 or even level 15 is required to have fun was a serious oversight.

I don't know where it was ever said that level 15-20 is required to have fun. This thread has a lot of offtopic in it, so let's not add strawman arguments to it.


Overall, I'm of the belief that RPXP should be rewarded uniformly. If that's RPXP is given everywhere at 14+, awesome. If it's that there's no RPXP anywhere at 14+, also awesome. The Faction RPXP suggestion was somewhat of a middleground, but it's clear the only real solution would be an all-or-nothing for 14+, and not haves-and-havenots.

That is not a strawman, it's been said before in other threads.

I agree with uniform RP XP but a lower level cap. We shouldn't be asking why Vallaki has no RP XP for 14+, but why 14+ exists at all. It doesn't add anything to Port either, they have nothing to lose by supporting that change.

[dutchy]

I agree most with Rocket even if it seems off topic.

XP is nothing, hubs are the bane of RP, levels do not equal fun nor do they amount to much of anything.

Overthinking character progression by appealing to the caveman brain that level 20 or even level 15 is required to have fun was a serious oversight. I hope one day it will be reverted. The reality is people are just farming PvP safety but they'll never be satisfied. This is what they are incentivised to do, when they could be RPing about anything else, besides talking every 15 minutes briefly to discuss what buffs they want. If they aren't on VOIP, completely ignoring their environment and players outside their chattersphere...

The server doesn't need a 5 year plan, it doesn't need all these bells and whistles. It needs a lower level cap. Vallaki isn't the only place where 15+ is unnecessary and is complicating matters more than it should. Those who want to have more fun in dungeons too will find that balance will be tighter too.

Ignore the post for being off topic if you want. I'm reposting this precisely because faction RP XP is nothing short of a compromise, and XP itself is not and should never be the main motivator of RP. The reward factor only exists because XP has no place in RP and people overthink it. RP is for RP's sake. RP for XP's sake is not RP, it's playing an MMO with RP sprinkled in where convenient.

None of the areas mentioned will be revived if RP XP comes back, certainly not by a snap of the fingers. They are dead and have to start anew, you can't shock paddle them with RP XP. They died when plots died and players quit out of frustration, either over XP addiction or over feelings of abandonment. Vallaki only holds on by an (RP XP) thread (every few months going nowhere) because it's the conveyor belt all new players fall off of. Some do stay and invest long term. Some come back periodically to stoke the fire. But the full package I was talking about is not there and it'll always be stained by the "high levels get out" mentality until high levels are removed. Not the players of high levels, they've never been the problem. It's the levels themselves, and that is to say nothing of the players who can ruin the atmosphere no matter what level they are, by mistake or on purpose. Take away the high levels who can always rescue them unopposed and you eliminate one of their vectors of infection. All this you may disagree with - you are entitled to your opinion, don't get me wrong - but RP XP wouldn't even be a bandaid against the wound to atmosphere that is having to walk on eggshells or accidentally blow up the monster of the week.

cause  you and  myself aswell actually do not see rp xp or xp in general as the motivator, many do, for many it is an angle of the game they wish to have.

cause you and i do not view it as such does not mean the others are wrong for wanting it, or to see or feel it as a motivator.

ps: those that like the post i made thnx for seeing potential in this  long ongoing issue

[Iolantir]

XP is nothing, hubs are the bane of RP, levels do not equal fun nor do they amount to much of anything.

This is objectively false, or the change to RP XP in Vallaki would have never been made in the first place.

Levels amount to combat strength, which is not much of anything when it comes to RP. The numbers getting bigger does not make RP more satisfying and do not make your character more like themselves.

Levels DO matter in a lot of RP aspects. Roleplaying isn't just sitting somewhere and chatting. Roleplaying could involve going on an investigation where your hide and stealth matters, DM events where you're going to be rolling spot/search, RP that progresses into unlocking a PrC where leveling up represents acquiring your new class that has been a major part of your RP and experiences.

To say levels mean nothing is a gross oversimplification, unless you're just sitting around and chatting.

[Day Old Bread]

I don't think limiting RP XP in certain areas is a bad thing or unfair to players in that area.

I think it gives us as players a reason to think differently.  If we desire the RP XP we can choose to groan and complain about why we're not getting it, or we can invent a reason to go elsewhere and get it.  Additionally we can think to ourselves, "Why" and go and explore other avenues of RP that we might not have thought to get if everything was business as usual back at home.

The cap on RP XP only seems unfair, but I think the devs and the DM's are on the mark with it.  It's helped us players step outside the box a little to go and experience something other than what we might have if we had stayed in the main introductory hub.

This certainly isn't to detract or belittle anyone else's arguments here. It's simply a different perspective.  I see RP XP as a bonus, an add on.  It's a nice little reward for doing something that I would prefer to do anyways.  I've always been of a mind that rewards are exactly that, rewards.  They aren't punishments when they're removed. 

A question I have for the devs/DM's.  Would it be possible to increase, even if only slightly, RP XP gains in areas outside of the currently RP XP Capped area and also remove the cap and reward significantly less RP XP in that same area?  This might also satisfy people especially with the recent changes to Blind Drive and RP XP helping to remove that blind drive?

Finally, what if the message telling you your RP XP was reduced was removed and you simply got a message saying that you got RP XP? Ignorance is bliss after all.  I don't actually know how much XP it contributes when I get that message, I just feel a little better inside when I see it.

[JustMonika]

XP is nothing, hubs are the bane of RP, levels do not equal fun nor do they amount to much of anything.

This is objectively false, or the change to RP XP in Vallaki would have never been made in the first place.

Levels amount to combat strength, which is not much of anything when it comes to RP. The numbers getting bigger does not make RP more satisfying and do not make your character more like themselves.

Overthinking character progression by appealing to the caveman brain that level 20 or even level 15 is required to have fun was a serious oversight.

I don't know where it was ever said that level 15-20 is required to have fun. This thread has a lot of offtopic in it, so let's not add strawman arguments to it.


Overall, I'm of the belief that RPXP should be rewarded uniformly. If that's RPXP is given everywhere at 14+, awesome. If it's that there's no RPXP anywhere at 14+, also awesome. The Faction RPXP suggestion was somewhat of a middleground, but it's clear the only real solution would be an all-or-nothing for 14+, and not haves-and-havenots.

That is not a strawman, it's been said before in other threads.

I agree with uniform RP XP but a lower level cap. We shouldn't be asking why Vallaki has no RP XP for 14+, but why 14+ exists at all. It doesn't add anything to Port either, they have nothing to lose by supporting that change.

At the risk of making myself even more unpopular, it's no particularly huge secret I would be happy with a substantially lower level cap [Something between 10-16, I think.]

However, I don't think there's much call for that, nor any possibility of the team implimenting it.

[Iolantir]

I don't think limiting RP XP in certain areas is a bad thing or unfair to players in that area.

I struggle to see how this isn't unfair, personally.

I think it gives us as players a reason to think differently.  If we desire the RP XP we can choose to groan and complain about why we're not getting it, or we can invent a reason to go elsewhere and get it.

This sounds like metagaming in a sense, which isn't something we should be doing.

This certainly isn't to detract or belittle anyone else's arguments here. It's simply a different perspective.  I see RP XP as a bonus, an add on.  It's a nice little reward for doing something that I would prefer to do anyways.  I've always been of a mind that rewards are exactly that, rewards.  They aren't punishments when they're removed. 

Removing something is punitive, though. If RP XP was never rewarded there to begin with, you would have an argument here.

Really, RPXP should be removed from 14+ server-wide, or given server-wide.

As others have posted, I'm also in favor of a lower level cap (12 would be my pick). But that's likely not going to happen.

[SardineTheAncestor]

Levels amount to combat strength, which is not much of anything when it comes to RP. The numbers getting bigger does not make RP more satisfying and do not make your character more like themselves.

Levels DO matter in a lot of RP aspects. Roleplaying isn't just sitting somewhere and chatting. Roleplaying could involve going on an investigation where your hide and stealth matters, DM events where you're going to be rolling spot/search, RP that progresses into unlocking a PrC where leveling up represents acquiring your new class that has been a major part of your RP and experiences.

To say levels mean nothing is a gross oversimplification, unless you're just sitting around and chatting.

"Roleplaying isn't just sitting somewhere and chatting" is a gross oversimplification of the point I'm trying to make - an actual strawman argument.

14 is more than high enough to progress a character and specialise in whatever role desired.

I'm not asking for a level, symmetrical playing field where no characters are different.

Classes alone provide role differences out of the gates, given their starting kits. Even in a D20 system, starting with 5 in a skill + attribute modifier is a big deal in terms of who can make what rolls.

I like this idea, but I think what more then a few folks would like to see if VoB turned into the Barovian "Regular" RP Hub.. and yes, I get this doesn't quite fit in with the lore.. but neither does Perfidus, and frankly foot traffic in VoB is so limited (outside of dungeons) I don't see it hurting to much. Frankly, the RP behavior in VoB if it were a hub should be a bit more controlled, and if it wasn't a DM could easily slap that down with some real threats.

But.. you would need to move some faction bases over there, or at least create some new faction hubs .. ie. Garda, WFK, RV.. throw in a bank..

Again, how about conceding that some people like to RP in Barovia, so why not just cater to that group, the same way Port, or Hazlan are catered to, and provide folks equal oppurtunity to RP and be RPXP rewarded for it, if they dont want their PCs to leave Barovia..

We are going nowhere if we do not acknowledge:

1) The devs don't want VoB to be a hub (even though it already has all the amenities it needs to be one, including the RP XP).

2) Catering is more apparent in the amount of DM attention and events found in Port. Just look at the event calendar...

3) Dungeons like Perfidus are not hubs; Krofburg, Midway Haven, Berez, etc. have something in common beyond the lack of RP XP - lack of DM attention.

If people were interested, they'd go there despite the lack of RP XP. RP isn't forever, it doesn't exist in a vacuum, it will come and go with player and DM interest.

I see RP XP as a bonus, an add on.

It is just a bonus, it's something that doesn't need to be there for RP to happen. Many players have testified as such.

It is a punishment to take rewards away however. This change was done as a punishment to the whole playerbase for the actions of a few. It now serves as a reminder that high levels can negatively affect RP completely by accident, and should move out of the area. The issue I take with this is that low levels can do the same, but usually through different means. A lower level cap is not a cure-all, but it would enable them less if there were fewer overleveled players to rescue them for every mistake they make.

[Iolantir]

To basically sum up my argument on the matter since I don't think we'll agree on the minute details:

1) RP XP should be uniform for levels 14+ (whether it is granted or not)
2) Ideally we'd have a lower-level cap but that's not going to happen
3) VoB being a hub is also not going to happen

I've been level 14+ for a good while now and it hasn't stopped me from RPing, but it does feel like I'm missing out on something by not getting RP XP for the time I'm putting in. It's obviously not make or break, or I just would have stopped playing. But some uniformity would be appreciated.

[JustMonika]

2) Catering is more apparent in the amount of DM attention and events found in Port. Just look at the event calendar...

I'm sorry Sardine, but this just isn't true.

The vast, vast majority of events in Port-A-Lucine are hosted by players, for players. They rarely require anything in the way of DM attention and support, and the vast majority of server DMs actively do /not/ get involved in Port-A-Lucine. In my time here, only DM Awarn [Inactive] DM Dread [Inactive] DM Soulbourne [Currently on break] and DM Agony and Indolence have been involved in port at all.

I have tried to run events of a similar nature in Barovia, and the take up and interest in them is /much/ smaller, despite the larger player base. It has nothing to do with DM attention at all, and this sort of statement only contributes to unfounded ooc resentment that port is somehow special or different, and not simply another server map like the rest of the module. If you want more events in Barovia, host them! You don't need permission to post anything in the Calender. The only reason events are not being held is players don't want to do so.

[SardineTheAncestor]

It's not untrue to say that Port has more events. Whether they're hosted by players or not doesn't matter - the calendar says it all. It also has more DMs interested.

You can refer to my earlier post about how the native Barovian scene is not as well represented compared to the native Dementlieuse scene.

Port doesn't have to be "special" for that to be true, but it is different. Different types of players go to each location for different types of RP. There may be some perceptions built on bias, even resentment, but the themes of Barovia and Dementlieu are very different, and not just because of what players choose to explore ingame.

To basically sum up my argument on the matter since I don't think we'll agree on the minute details:

1) RP XP should be uniform for levels 14+ (whether it is granted or not)
2) Ideally we'd have a lower-level cap but that's not going to happen
3) VoB being a hub is also not going to happen

I've been level 14+ for a good while now and it hasn't stopped me from RPing, but it does feel like I'm missing out on something by not getting RP XP for the time I'm putting in. It's obviously not make or break, or I just would have stopped playing. But some uniformity would be appreciated.

I do agree with the stance you present there, word for word.

The only nitpick I have is with VoB - it's actually a great place to be. It's gotten better lately. I don't know how much more you can improve it. Despite being a ghost town, it provides a lot of useful services. RP could flourish there, but people tend to just go back to Vallaki.

[SwordChucks]

2) Catering is more apparent in the amount of DM attention and events found in Port. Just look at the event calendar...

I'm sorry Sardine, but this just isn't true.

The vast, vast majority of events in Port-A-Lucine are hosted by players, for players. They rarely require anything in the way of DM attention and support, and the vast majority of server DMs actively do /not/ get involved in Port-A-Lucine. In my time here, only DM Awarn [Inactive] DM Dread [Inactive] DM Soulbourne [Currently on break] and DM Agony and Indolence have been involved in port at all.

I have tried to run events of a similar nature in Barovia, and the take up and interest in them is /much/ smaller, despite the larger player base. It has nothing to do with DM attention at all, and this sort of statement only contributes to unfounded ooc resentment that port is somehow special or different, and not simply another server map like the rest of the module. If you want more events in Barovia, host them! You don't need permission to post anything in the Calendar. The only reason events are not being held is players don't want to do so.

Other then the fact that a player in port can call that his or her home, RP and receive RPXP for it..  is the major issue here. Players in Hazlan and Demen both have that opportunity, but the Marquis domain of the server, is considered a low level playground and therefore players above 14 are forced out if they want to progress.

Forget any arguments about the "purity" of roleplay, and how you don't need XP to have a good time, or just stay 14 forever..

Lets just look at fairness.. it is not fair to that a concept that fits into BV somehow stops at level 14, meanwhile a non combat PC in Demen or Hazlan continues to progress.
If the issue is Vallaki, then create a second Hub for higher levels in Barovia.. I get they don't want VOB (although it was clearly built in such a fashion that it could be) but offering something to these players only seems fair.. 

I am in a Barovia faction, but my main PC also enjoys exploring so I don't have the issues some do..  I just things is silly and misguided that what is good for the goose is not also good for the gander, and if you play in an area where you get RPXP you should be in favor of this for players who dont get that reward.

[Phantasia]

There is no matter of resentment building, it's just a truth, and we're free to explore that here on the forums. It is a truth as a consequence of player interest and also DM interest as things are currently and there's nothing wrong with that.

The long and short of it is, if the server is to see more life in its various corners, it will need more DMs, especially to even remotely attempt to support the sheer wealth of playstyles and players we have today than in the past where peak hours was 30-40 players.

It's said that it's an "unpopular opinion" that having a lower level cap would be welcome but I disagree. It would be my preference as well, but as a developer I have to realize that would be "scrapping" years of work, even if the cap can be reduced suddenly. Higher end feats and spells are the only thing we'd be missing out on, as well as having to revise the multiclass rules to compliment new class spreads. Beyond that point is also a lot of work in making those PrCs and base classes functionable/feel complete if necessary, which is a lot of .2da work. Let's not also forget having to rebalance XP values and rates.

Indeed, this would maybe remedy a lot of the server's "high level" issues of current, and make end game content such as Sithicus or Perfidus much more challenging, but honestly, still very feasible. I would not hold your breath on any of that though, that's just my unbiased look at things as they are.

[SardineTheAncestor]

My proposed solution for the sudden cap would be to consider if any 15+ class features or feats need to remain in for the sake of balance or fun. Some of them exist to create equity at the highest character levels and don't need to stay. Others can actually change the playstyle of the class when you get them. So those should be choices, not automatically gained.

With the power ceiling lowered, I think more PrCs would become better or at least more popular choices. Some of the best and most popular PrCs right now are only the best and most popular because you can reach level 20 eventually.

I don't see much of a need to make it take longer to level or even tweak dungeon balance to compensate. If it matters to them, players will find ways to complete dungeons with the tools they are given. Level 10 in a month or two isn't that bad, it's the 6+ month grind from 14-20 and the perception that they need those levels to "complete" their character, or be safer in PvP, or solo some dungeon in particular; whatever it is, the motivations change from 14-20. My argument has never been that a character growing into power is bad for RP, but growing out of the setting has been acknowledged by the developers already as a problem - see the RP XP cap.

[cheese tornado]

Other then the fact that a player in port can call that his or her home, RP and receive RPXP for it..  is the major issue here. Players in Hazlan and Demen both have that opportunity, but the Marquis domain of the server, is considered a low level playground and therefore players above 14 are forced out if they want to progress.

+1

[Maffa]

I dont know the specifics of how RPXP works, but however it might pile up over time, isnt it a negligible amount for people that count their XP pool by the millions? Is that all the difference there is between a 14lvl char in vallaki and a 20lvl in port? Isnt it because the 20lvl in port has munched on aboleths and caliban gang leaders next door while there's nothing of the sort in vallaki?

I understand the principle that most players wouldnt ever leave the nest if the DMs didnt put some kind of system in place to let the players go, not until there is a hard system at char creation to either pick or randomize the landing place out of the Mists, but I fail to understand why the point is so controversial to earn a thread every few months. What am i missing?

[SardineTheAncestor]

What I think a lot of people are missing is that Dementlieu doesn't need characters at level 14 or higher, same with Hazlan or any other domain.

So people ask Barovia to be given the same "maximum level" as the other domains, but if you ask me, it's the other domains that must be brought down, we've seen before that power comes down like acid rain from the other domains no matter how infrequent.

[dutchy]

What I think a lot of people are missing is that Dementlieu doesn't need characters at level 14 or higher, same with Hazlan or any other domain.

So people ask Barovia to be given the same "maximum level" as the other domains, but if you ask me, it's the other domains that must be brought down, we've seen before that power comes down like acid rain from the other domains no matter how infrequent.

no what people want is a place like barovia, the rp and stories and vibe are different in barovia then in the port.

if they had such you wouldnt see this topic raising his head every few months.

the other route would be to tinker with the rp xp caps.

as someone else pointed out, it is an issue cause people find it unfair.

[SardineTheAncestor]

Well in terms of fairness, I think if everyone's equal playing field was to expect that 14 is where the numbers stop piling on, my wish would be satisfied.

I dunno if a place like Barovia would work. I think this fantasy of ours is gonna collapse if we ask the devs to make another domain for us for a year so that we can run around like rodents and gobble all the content up in a few weeks.

The more squished down the levels are, the more what's already in the server remains relevant, immune to the manipulation of overleveled characters and players dissatisfied with having to pull their punches instead of throw themselves at the RP in all their creative glory like everyone else gets to.

The more spread out the levels are, the more noticeable the "MMO" mindset, endless grinds, and so on.

[dutchy]

Well in terms of fairness, I think if everyone's equal playing field was to expect that 14 is where the numbers stop piling on, my wish would be satisfied.

I dunno if a place like Barovia would work. I think this fantasy of ours is gonna collapse if we ask the devs to make another domain for us for a year so that we can run around like rodents and gobble all the content up in a few weeks.

The more squished down the levels are, the more what's already in the server remains relevant, immune to the manipulation of overleveled characters and players dissatisfied with having to pull their punches instead of throw themselves at the RP in all their creative glory like everyone else gets to.

The more spread out the levels are, the more noticeable the "MMO" mindset, endless grinds, and so on.

barovia is flawed.
it has been said so by the team but it is not something that can be reversed, cause it was the first thing on potm, and they build around it, so they cant mess with the core, and i get that,  we all should get that.

i won't deny i have a horse in this race, i run with others the archondum and we got plenty of high lvls in the faction,  the elves are also based in barovia, the  wayferers same story,  racial wise we got nowhere else to go, that's the major flaw in all this.

i always said make darkon, and make that the hub they wanted barovia to be in hindsight, cause experience does matter, and barovia was a succes an a mistake at the same time.
a damn good mistake/succes i might add.

but just viewing it from just what i want does not aid the community, hence why i say let's look for a compremise, there must be something  that pleases the majority on both sides.