Author Topic: MC - Not Neutral Ground Signage  (Read 1256 times)

Miuo

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MC - Not Neutral Ground Signage
« on: September 19, 2021, 08:27:25 PM »
Inspired from here: https://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=60312.msg706018#msg706018

Would it be possible to just add a sign to the MC, erected by the vistani or some other nameless individual, reminding people the area around the fort is not neutral ground. The vistani will not help you, no lands laws or influence holds power here in the mists. Those who dwell here have only themselves to rely on.

This could be done by players but it would be something that would have to be built after every crash/reset. And since its a constant cropping up issue oocly that its believed the area is a neutral ground controlled by the vistani and that pvp and the like cant occur here. Seems like it would just be easier to have a constant reminder in game for both ic and ooc purpose for everyone to remove any current or future confusion regarding such. A small thing to save alot of misunderstanding and ooc frustrations.

Edit: This post is refering to the actual arrival area/dryad keep map, not the map the vistani craft tent or merchant are on. Sorry about lack of specifity.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2021, 09:24:30 PM by Miuo »

tylernwn

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Re: MC - Not Neutral Ground Signage
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2021, 08:41:48 PM »
Inspired from here: https://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=60312.msg706018#msg706018

Would it be possible to just add a sign to the MC, erected by the vistani or some other nameless individual, reminding people the area around the fort is not neutral ground. The vistani will not help you, no lands laws or influence holds power here in the mists. Those who dwell here have only themselves to rely on.

This could be done by players but it would be something that would have to be built after every crash/reset. And since its a constant cropping up issue oocly that its believed the area is a neutral ground controlled by the vistani and that pvp and the like cant occur here. Seems like it would just be easier to have a constant reminder in game for both ic and ooc purpose for everyone to remove any current or future confusion regarding such. A small thing to save alot of misunderstanding and ooc frustrations.

I feel like this will just encourage people to engage in more pvp in the area, which is the opposite of the rules; no pvp in front of the vistani without dm permission.

Dardonas

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Re: MC - Not Neutral Ground Signage
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2021, 08:43:21 PM »
Inspired from here: https://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=60312.msg706018#msg706018

Would it be possible to just add a sign to the MC, erected by the vistani or some other nameless individual, reminding people the area around the fort is not neutral ground. The vistani will not help you, no lands laws or influence holds power here in the mists. Those who dwell here have only themselves to rely on.

This could be done by players but it would be something that would have to be built after every crash/reset. And since its a constant cropping up issue oocly that its believed the area is a neutral ground controlled by the vistani and that pvp and the like cant occur here. Seems like it would just be easier to have a constant reminder in game for both ic and ooc purpose for everyone to remove any current or future confusion regarding such. A small thing to save alot of misunderstanding and ooc frustrations.

I feel like this will just encourage people to engage in more pvp in the area, which is the opposite of the rules; no pvp in front of the vistani without dm permission.

This is incorrect.  No fighting in the Vistani Camp proper is the rule posted there, so don't fight there without a DM to oversee the NPCs.  Outside of the camp and by the keep?  In front of the caravan masters?  Fair game.

Edit: To clarify, it's been ruled by DMs that the Caravan Masters do not care about people fighting in that section of the "Camp."  As long as you don't harm the Vistani or their caravans, they don't care.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2021, 08:49:35 PM by Dardonas »

tylernwn

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Re: MC - Not Neutral Ground Signage
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2021, 08:50:42 PM »
Inspired from here: https://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=60312.msg706018#msg706018

Would it be possible to just add a sign to the MC, erected by the vistani or some other nameless individual, reminding people the area around the fort is not neutral ground. The vistani will not help you, no lands laws or influence holds power here in the mists. Those who dwell here have only themselves to rely on.

This could be done by players but it would be something that would have to be built after every crash/reset. And since its a constant cropping up issue oocly that its believed the area is a neutral ground controlled by the vistani and that pvp and the like cant occur here. Seems like it would just be easier to have a constant reminder in game for both ic and ooc purpose for everyone to remove any current or future confusion regarding such. A small thing to save alot of misunderstanding and ooc frustrations.

I feel like this will just encourage people to engage in more pvp in the area, which is the opposite of the rules; no pvp in front of the vistani without dm permission.

This is incorrect.  No fighting in the Vistani Camp proper is the rule posted there, so don't fight there without a DM to oversee the NPCs.  Outside of the camp and by the keep?  In front of the caravan masters?  Fair game.

Edit: To clarify, it's been ruled by DMs that the Caravan Masters do not care about people fighting in that section of the "Camp."  As long as you don't harm the Vistani or their caravans, they don't care.

Are you sure about in front of the caravan masters? I feel like this is wrong.

Miuo

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Re: MC - Not Neutral Ground Signage
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2021, 08:52:30 PM »
Thats what im talking about, the caravan dryad area map. Its why there is confusion. One map is completely fair game, while the other is strictly a no no and requires dm oversight. Leading many to assume both maps fall under the same no pvp rule. Something on the caravan map to clarify removes such confusion and makes it pretty clear. That the area/map is fair game and that if anything does happen it isnt a ooc issue of rules being broken.

tylernwn

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Re: MC - Not Neutral Ground Signage
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2021, 08:57:34 PM »
Thats what im talking about, the caravan dryad area map. Its why there is confusion. One map is completely fair game, while the other is strictly a no no and requires dm oversight. Leading many to assume both maps fall under the same no pvp rule. Something on the caravan map to clarify removes such confusion and makes it pretty clear. That the area/map is fair game and that if anything does happen it isnt a ooc issue of rules being broken.

Well in that case, yeah it needs clarification. In my mind the “mist camp - arrival” is still part of the mist camp and subject to the same rules (no pvp). If this changed with the replacement of that area by the keep of the dyad (or because of a specific dm ruling), then that is probably news to a lot of players and worthy of an announcement/notification. I thought the point of that rule was to make the mist camp safe, and stop player battles from accidentally killing the caravan masters.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2021, 09:06:31 PM by tylernwn »

Dardonas

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Re: MC - Not Neutral Ground Signage
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2021, 09:03:12 PM »
Inspired from here: https://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=60312.msg706018#msg706018

Would it be possible to just add a sign to the MC, erected by the vistani or some other nameless individual, reminding people the area around the fort is not neutral ground. The vistani will not help you, no lands laws or influence holds power here in the mists. Those who dwell here have only themselves to rely on.

This could be done by players but it would be something that would have to be built after every crash/reset. And since its a constant cropping up issue oocly that its believed the area is a neutral ground controlled by the vistani and that pvp and the like cant occur here. Seems like it would just be easier to have a constant reminder in game for both ic and ooc purpose for everyone to remove any current or future confusion regarding such. A small thing to save alot of misunderstanding and ooc frustrations.

I feel like this will just encourage people to engage in more pvp in the area, which is the opposite of the rules; no pvp in front of the vistani without dm permission.

This is incorrect.  No fighting in the Vistani Camp proper is the rule posted there, so don't fight there without a DM to oversee the NPCs.  Outside of the camp and by the keep?  In front of the caravan masters?  Fair game.

Edit: To clarify, it's been ruled by DMs that the Caravan Masters do not care about people fighting in that section of the "Camp."  As long as you don't harm the Vistani or their caravans, they don't care.

Are you sure about in front of the caravan masters? I feel like this is wrong.

I am certain that as long as you are not directly affecting those NPCs with your attack you can PvP people in front of them.  This has happened many times in the past and many people who though they were safe in camp in front of those NPCs were caught by surprise.

FinalHeaven

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Re: MC - Not Neutral Ground Signage
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2021, 09:53:58 PM »
Inspired from here: https://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=60312.msg706018#msg706018

Would it be possible to just add a sign to the MC, erected by the vistani or some other nameless individual, reminding people the area around the fort is not neutral ground. The vistani will not help you, no lands laws or influence holds power here in the mists. Those who dwell here have only themselves to rely on.

This could be done by players but it would be something that would have to be built after every crash/reset. And since its a constant cropping up issue oocly that its believed the area is a neutral ground controlled by the vistani and that pvp and the like cant occur here. Seems like it would just be easier to have a constant reminder in game for both ic and ooc purpose for everyone to remove any current or future confusion regarding such. A small thing to save alot of misunderstanding and ooc frustrations.

I feel like this will just encourage people to engage in more pvp in the area, which is the opposite of the rules; no pvp in front of the vistani without dm permission.

This is incorrect.  No fighting in the Vistani Camp proper is the rule posted there, so don't fight there without a DM to oversee the NPCs.  Outside of the camp and by the keep?  In front of the caravan masters?  Fair game.

Edit: To clarify, it's been ruled by DMs that the Caravan Masters do not care about people fighting in that section of the "Camp."  As long as you don't harm the Vistani or their caravans, they don't care.

Are you sure about in front of the caravan masters? I feel like this is wrong.

I am certain that as long as you are not directly affecting those NPCs with your attack you can PvP people in front of them.  This has happened many times in the past and many people who though they were safe in camp in front of those NPCs were caught by surprise.

This is mostly true.  To be more specific though, it absolutely depends on how the PvP goes down.  If that attacker does anything that is too close to the Caravan Master that could conceivably cause them harm, you may find yourself in trouble (ICly) even if the NPC wasn't literally caused damage. 

It depends on the subsequent RP from any witnesses and if any DMs get involved, but it happens.



Freydaelyn

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Re: MC - Not Neutral Ground Signage
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2021, 10:36:55 PM »
Inspired from here: https://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=60312.msg706018#msg706018

Would it be possible to just add a sign to the MC, erected by the vistani or some other nameless individual, reminding people the area around the fort is not neutral ground. The vistani will not help you, no lands laws or influence holds power here in the mists. Those who dwell here have only themselves to rely on.

This could be done by players but it would be something that would have to be built after every crash/reset. And since its a constant cropping up issue oocly that its believed the area is a neutral ground controlled by the vistani and that pvp and the like cant occur here. Seems like it would just be easier to have a constant reminder in game for both ic and ooc purpose for everyone to remove any current or future confusion regarding such. A small thing to save alot of misunderstanding and ooc frustrations.

I feel like this will just encourage people to engage in more pvp in the area, which is the opposite of the rules; no pvp in front of the vistani without dm permission.

This is incorrect.  No fighting in the Vistani Camp proper is the rule posted there, so don't fight there without a DM to oversee the NPCs.  Outside of the camp and by the keep?  In front of the caravan masters?  Fair game.

Edit: To clarify, it's been ruled by DMs that the Caravan Masters do not care about people fighting in that section of the "Camp."  As long as you don't harm the Vistani or their caravans, they don't care.

Are you sure about in front of the caravan masters? I feel like this is wrong.

I am certain that as long as you are not directly affecting those NPCs with your attack you can PvP people in front of them.  This has happened many times in the past and many people who though they were safe in camp in front of those NPCs were caught by surprise.

This is mostly true.  To be more specific though, it absolutely depends on how the PvP goes down.  If that attacker does anything that is too close to the Caravan Master that could conceivably cause them harm, you may find yourself in trouble (ICly) even if the NPC wasn't literally caused damage. 

It depends on the subsequent RP from any witnesses and if any DMs get involved, but it happens.

I would also advise being careful around the ox as well.
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Lightweaver

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Re: MC - Not Neutral Ground Signage
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2021, 11:01:01 PM »
The Vistani are not interested in becoming involved in disputes involving outsiders. When one enters the camp proper, there is a sign that details their stance:

"Do not bring your giorgio business, quarrels and conflict here. This is not a safe ground for outsiders - if someone has a quarrel with you, hide or seek refuge elsewhere."

This is not a statement that they will protect victims or enforce common laws, but one that they will not involve themselves. They will look unkindly on any encounters that trouble them or threaten their families, business, or holdings. It is a complex scenario that is not defined as PvP or not PvP, but one considering the variables of the conflict. The Vistani Captain would not take offense to a slit throat fifteen feet away, but if that same death comes by a fireball, that might threaten him because if the fire spread it could endanger his livelihood. Djordji does not want death in his residence and place of business at all, for example, but the Vistani meandering the camp might only glance if someone is killed outside of their ring of vardos.

The same consideration goes for matters outside of PvP. If your character has an animal companion, summon, or shifted form that is alarming - the Vistani might find objection. If it is a creature that is encountered hostile in the wild or something unnatural, it would illicit a reaction and a DM should be present to support a believable encounter.

The curators of the Keep of the Dyad hold a similar stance to the Vistani. If their people are harmed or threatened, then there is concern, otherwise the sum of conflict in their eyes is merely a mess requiring tending. Fortunately, most assailants have the consideration to clean up the bodies from the scene.

ObsidianOrb

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Re: MC - Not Neutral Ground Signage
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2021, 12:38:43 PM »
We don't need more signs, this is Ravenloft, a harsh unforgiving setting where the weak get eaten by wolves, and strangers who don't know any better to keep to themselves get into trouble and wind up dead.

PlatointheCave

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Re: MC - Not Neutral Ground Signage
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2021, 03:36:05 PM »
I would also advise being careful around the ox as well.

Beware the vengeance for ox slaying.

Miuo

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Re: MC - Not Neutral Ground Signage
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2021, 10:27:06 PM »
We don't need more signs, this is Ravenloft, a harsh unforgiving setting where the weak get eaten by wolves, and strangers who don't know any better to keep to themselves get into trouble and wind up dead.

Except there are OOC rules and systems in place. If a player is under the impression there are rules preventing them from doing something with OOC consequences for violating such it shapes their rp. Given that even now people were under the impression pvp was not oocly allowed there it seems obvious there needs to be something in place to ensure that doesn't keep happening. 1 additional furniture item to the Dayad area ensures everyone is on the same page regarding such. And saves ooc headaches.