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Author Topic: XP Penalties.  (Read 1881 times)

Anarcoplayba

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XP Penalties.
« on: September 05, 2021, 07:25:22 PM »
I'd like to suggest a quick look into the system to maybe tweak a little.

I avoid at all costs to enter in XP penalty. Whenever I receive "mentally exhausted" I step down a little in activities that give XP and focus on crafting or even leave the PC completeley without playing.

I have 3 PC's I play: level 17, 15 and 13.

All of them are now "Mentally exhausted" and have been for more or less 15 days (two weeks). It seems that is VERY easy to get into penalty XP and very HARD to get out. One of the PC's touched blind drive and in 15 days without being played didn't get out of mentally exhausted. And I'm not one of the grinding players.

It seems that above level 10, if you are doing something that rewards your PC with XP, you will get into XP penalty.
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Abear

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Re: XP Penalties.
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2021, 07:48:14 PM »
I dunno, I think the system is in pretty good shape. I've played two characters to fairly high levels, one who did frequent dungeoning and one who did little to none until recently. Both of them levelled at about the same pace, and I think that's a good thing.
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MatticusCaesar

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Re: XP Penalties.
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2021, 08:34:01 PM »
I'd like to suggest a quick look into the system to maybe tweak a little.

I avoid at all costs to enter in XP penalty. Whenever I receive "mentally exhausted" I step down a little in activities that give XP and focus on crafting or even leave the PC completeley without playing.

I have 3 PC's I play: level 17, 15 and 13.

All of them are now "Mentally exhausted" and have been for more or less 15 days (two weeks). It seems that is VERY easy to get into penalty XP and very HARD to get out. One of the PC's touched blind drive and in 15 days without being played didn't get out of mentally exhausted. And I'm not one of the grinding players.

It seems that above level 10, if you are doing something that rewards your PC with XP, you will get into XP penalty.

I've experienced something similar in the past month.

I've got a character I had been struggling to get out of Blind Brive for ~2 weeks now as well.  He made level 12 roughly 2 weeks ago and immediately fell deep into Blind Drive status and had more of less been stuck there.  All he's been doing for the most part since then is RP and run around picking plants.  He has, admittedly, had a few incidental combat-related XP gains due to some necessary self-defense, but no grand adventures I can think of during this time.  He finally popped out of Blind Drive about 3 days ago and he is in that first "might benefit from taking it slow for a while" penalty mode, but the light of day remains elusive.  I've never had a character stuck for quite that long so I get where you are coming from.

I've got no evidence as to why or why not this should be the case, and I obviously can't prove anything, but this just somehow feels off based on my time here and previous growth & XP penalty experiences over the course of multiple higher-level characters.
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Re: XP Penalties.
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2021, 08:38:37 PM »
I had a character shelved for more than a month, level 7 with ECL 2, and when I rested on them once I was in blind drive.  Granted I had a banked level and experience, but I don't believe that should have mattered.  It does seem like something's going on here, I agree with what Matticus said.

Bouquet of Lotuses

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Re: XP Penalties.
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2021, 08:40:15 PM »
I'd like to add to the pile of stories, I have a friend who only did dungeons with me but I was perpetually in Fresh or w/e while they were constantly stuck in Blind Drive.
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Anarcoplayba

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Re: XP Penalties.
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2021, 08:45:55 PM »
I'd like to add to the pile of stories, I have a friend who only did dungeons with me but I was perpetually in Fresh or w/e while they were constantly stuck in Blind Drive.

The mais question, as for my experience, is what you pointed: it seems to exist an uneven weight of time to calculate how easy it is to get in XP penalty and how much time you need to get out of XP penalty.
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EO

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Re: XP Penalties.
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2021, 08:48:35 PM »
There haven't been any changes to the XP system in a long time; the only change we made a year or two ago was to count "banked" levels when calculating the cap and XP gains since people abused that to level up faster by not levelling up and just soaking XP.

InMyDarkestHours

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Re: XP Penalties.
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2021, 10:06:44 PM »
I don't have any data or real evidence but I'd also chime to say that it feels like the dissolution in the XP cap is taking a fair bit longer than it used to, even if EO says no changes have been made.

I play roughly the same quantity of time as of a couple of years ago (in progressing a character) and I don't remember having being stuck in blind drive/mental exhaustion back then as I am now, despite dungeoning more back then and much less presently.

PrimetheGrime

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Re: XP Penalties.
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2021, 10:49:01 PM »
I've only ever felt the sting of Blind Drive when I've been doing nothing but dungeon. I would heavily suggest sitting down and  having conversations or try out some crafts, avoid any combat during because you're not going to get out of blind drive by fighting other things. This has always worked for me in the past. Just dungeoning will always get you pushing blind drive early, just as going to a really xp rich dungeon will also push you towards it. Dont be afraid to take a break

MatticusCaesar

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Re: XP Penalties.
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2021, 11:20:25 PM »
Heya Prime... I don't think that's what we're getting at.  Maybe I'm not articulating it well.

Must of us "Action-RPers" are familiar with the ups and downs of heavy dungeoning/questing activity.
What we're suggesting is that lately, the dive into the deeper XP penalty modes seems to be coming a LOT quicker after a lot less activity, and climbing out seems to be taking a lot longer during periods of crafting, roleplaying, and general idleness.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 11:26:22 PM by MatticusCaesar »
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Anarcoplayba

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Re: XP Penalties.
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2021, 11:25:41 PM »
I've only ever felt the sting of Blind Drive when I've been doing nothing but dungeon. I would heavily suggest sitting down and  having conversations or try out some crafts, avoid any combat during because you're not going to get out of blind drive by fighting other things. This has always worked for me in the past. Just dungeoning will always get you pushing blind drive early, just as going to a really xp rich dungeon will also push you towards it. Dont be afraid to take a break

This is EXACTLY the problem: I gave a break. I let my PC on the shelf for more than 15 daya and didn't get off the penalty.

My plead is not to remove the penalty: is to take a look, because it seems that more than 15 days I left my pc on the shelf, not accounting to the crafting I gave priority seems a little too much time to too low recovery.

The way it is it seems what many players already said: blind drive is normal.
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Bouquet of Lotuses

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Re: XP Penalties.
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2021, 11:29:31 PM »
Maybe some behind-the-scenes change to NWN itself in some update affected things?
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Derek Jeter

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Re: XP Penalties.
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2021, 02:55:23 AM »
Isnt it based on server xp gains?
Wouldn't that mean it would constantly fluctuate?

Bouquet of Lotuses

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Re: XP Penalties.
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2021, 03:36:01 AM »
From the sounds of it it's been stuck in blind drive for some people over long periods of time, but not as harsh on others. My personal experience was that it didn't make sense why one of us was in blind drive constantly and the other was fresh--we were barely a level apart and only dungeoned together.
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bloodless

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Re: XP Penalties.
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2021, 03:42:21 AM »
From the sounds of it it's been stuck in blind drive for some people over long periods of time, but not as harsh on others. My personal experience was that it didn't make sense why one of us was in blind drive constantly and the other was fresh--we were barely a level apart and only dungeoned together.
If your friend is playing an ECL race, that would explain it.

Bouquet of Lotuses

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Re: XP Penalties.
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2021, 04:00:40 AM »
From the sounds of it it's been stuck in blind drive for some people over long periods of time, but not as harsh on others. My personal experience was that it didn't make sense why one of us was in blind drive constantly and the other was fresh--we were barely a level apart and only dungeoned together.
If your friend is playing an ECL race, that would explain it.

They were not, though I agree that would explain it.
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Purist

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Re: XP Penalties.
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2021, 06:35:13 AM »
In my experience, the way the system works is by tracking your character online. So being online and doing nothing that will give you a great XP boost, such as dungeoning, will make the clock tick and your penalties decrease. If you simply logged out for 5 days or 5 months changes nothing, as the XP gain/count doesn't fade away with offline time -- I need a Dev to confirm this.

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Re: XP Penalties.
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2021, 06:54:27 AM »
In my experience, the way the system works is by tracking your character online. So being online and doing nothing that will give you a great XP boost, such as dungeoning, will make the clock tick and your penalties decrease. If you simply logged out for 5 days or 5 months changes nothing, as the XP gain/count doesn't fade away with offline time -- I need a Dev to confirm this.
It 100% ticks down while logged out, though the rate may be different, I don't know.

Vissy

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Re: XP Penalties.
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2021, 11:38:17 AM »
I do feel like it works a bit randomly. I have had moments (for instance during NCEs) when I dungeon with a specific group and only with them, and still some of us go into blind drive faster than others without any extra combat xp gains than others, and stay there longer too. Whereas others are more or less perpetually at Fresh. My level 10 ranger once went from an XP buff to blind drive in just one run of the Vestibule and stayed there for two weeks.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 11:40:14 AM by Vissy »
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Anarcoplayba

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Re: XP Penalties.
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2021, 08:05:25 PM »
Putting more experience in the XP penalty experience.

I have a high level PC (now) in the level 18, which I "had" to put in blind drive to level. Ok.

I took a few days playing slow, crafting, or even simply leaving the PC on the shelf. After more or less one week, TODAY, I got the message "mentally exhausted", one below blind drive.

I went to Perfidus to rescue a party with other people. We killed some demons, I rested. when I rested, I gained the message "you could have performed better if you faced the right challenges" AND got back to blind drive.

Now, here comes, again, the point: I can understand getting or staying in penalty XP due to proud and quite satisfied, however, going up one level of penalty XP on the "you could have performed better" message doesn't make any sense unless the server WANTS the high levels to level at a fraction of the pace.
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Re: XP Penalties.
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2021, 08:27:09 PM »
The server wants high levels to level up at a fraction of the pace.

You can get to 11-12 in a month or two. It is generally agreed upon that the reasonable time to 20, for someone actively pursuing it and excluding any weird strategies, is about a year. It would follow that each level is taking exponentially longer.
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Re: XP Penalties.
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2021, 11:08:04 PM »
The server wants high levels to level up at a fraction of the pace.

You can get to 11-12 in a month or two. It is generally agreed upon that the reasonable time to 20, for someone actively pursuing it and excluding any weird strategies, is about a year. It would follow that each level is taking exponentially longer.

Bingo. It takes about 3-4 months to go from 19-20.

transcend

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Re: XP Penalties.
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2021, 03:59:17 AM »
Heya Prime... I don't think that's what we're getting at.  Maybe I'm not articulating it well.

Must of us "Action-RPers" are familiar with the ups and downs of heavy dungeoning/questing activity.
What we're suggesting is that lately, the dive into the deeper XP penalty modes seems to be coming a LOT quicker after a lot less activity, and climbing out seems to be taking a lot longer during periods of crafting, roleplaying, and general idleness.

I can relate to this, and to Anarcoplayba's story. I'm not sure if the XP limiter is counting the percentage of XP sources a given character has or if it's doing some weird census thing where the server average is compared to the gain of the character itself, but it feels like blind drive is both more punishing and harder to get out of.

I've been putting a character on cooldown for a little bit and it didn't take too long for a couple of dungeons to get him from fresh to 'lol slow down' and onto blind drive again.

DaloLorn

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Re: XP Penalties.
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2021, 08:58:12 AM »
Heya Prime... I don't think that's what we're getting at.  Maybe I'm not articulating it well.

Must of us "Action-RPers" are familiar with the ups and downs of heavy dungeoning/questing activity.
What we're suggesting is that lately, the dive into the deeper XP penalty modes seems to be coming a LOT quicker after a lot less activity, and climbing out seems to be taking a lot longer during periods of crafting, roleplaying, and general idleness.

I can relate to this, and to Anarcoplayba's story. I'm not sure if the XP limiter is counting the percentage of XP sources a given character has or if it's doing some weird census thing where the server average is compared to the gain of the character itself, but it feels like blind drive is both more punishing and harder to get out of.

I've been putting a character on cooldown for a little bit and it didn't take too long for a couple of dungeons to get him from fresh to 'lol slow down' and onto blind drive again.

According to the official posts describing PotM's XP system, it does in fact do a census, essentially trying to keep your level close to the average level for your age.

If there's a lot of level 2-3 characters who were created at the same time as you, then they would continue to skew the metrics (and consequently your XP gains) for months or even years to come, depending on how many such characters existed. (I actually have a number of characters created from December through July that would have such an effect, though it should be marginal unless a lot of people created and discarded characters throughout that period.)
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Anarcoplayba

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Re: XP Penalties.
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2021, 09:47:48 AM »
Heya Prime... I don't think that's what we're getting at.  Maybe I'm not articulating it well.

Must of us "Action-RPers" are familiar with the ups and downs of heavy dungeoning/questing activity.
What we're suggesting is that lately, the dive into the deeper XP penalty modes seems to be coming a LOT quicker after a lot less activity, and climbing out seems to be taking a lot longer during periods of crafting, roleplaying, and general idleness.

I can relate to this, and to Anarcoplayba's story. I'm not sure if the XP limiter is counting the percentage of XP sources a given character has or if it's doing some weird census thing where the server average is compared to the gain of the character itself, but it feels like blind drive is both more punishing and harder to get out of.

I've been putting a character on cooldown for a little bit and it didn't take too long for a couple of dungeons to get him from fresh to 'lol slow down' and onto blind drive again.

According to the official posts describing PotM's XP system, it does in fact do a census, essentially trying to keep your level close to the average level for your age.

If there's a lot of level 2-3 characters who were created at the same time as you, then they would continue to skew the metrics (and consequently your XP gains) for months or even years to come, depending on how many such characters existed. (I actually have a number of characters created from December through July that would have such an effect, though it should be marginal unless a lot of people created and discarded characters throughout that period.)

Then I hope the census doen't take in consideration characteres who aren't played because this character was created back in 2008.

If I'm packed with every character created and shelved... That is really a problem.
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