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Author Topic: System Wishlist v3  (Read 26189 times)

Grendel

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Re: System Wishlist v3
« Reply #275 on: January 07, 2023, 08:08:52 PM »
Thinking about this, it may be best to remove the hostile message altogether, at least for the one being hostiled.
Since its purpose it so provide feedback to the attacker that the engine is now set as intended, there isn't actually any need for the one being hostiled to know and keeps the suspense.

Also it would remove a lot of spam messages from AMPCs setting the server hostile

Removing the message also disables any way to verify people are actually following the server rule regarding hostiling. The only purpose I think it serves is so you can screenshot it if you believe someone's exploiting the hostiling system, IE attacking you without toggling hostile so you can't respond properly.

Evendur

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Re: System Wishlist v3
« Reply #276 on: January 07, 2023, 08:20:14 PM »
Thinking about this, it may be best to remove the hostile message altogether, at least for the one being hostiled.
Since its purpose it so provide feedback to the attacker that the engine is now set as intended, there isn't actually any need for the one being hostiled to know and keeps the suspense.

Also it would remove a lot of spam messages from AMPCs setting the server hostile

Removing the message also disables any way to verify people are actually following the server rule regarding hostiling. The only purpose I think it serves is so you can screenshot it if you believe someone's exploiting the hostiling system, IE attacking you without toggling hostile so you can't respond properly.

If they set you hostile, even if you did not receive a message about it, they will still appear as hostile (red) during the attack which indicated if the rules have been followed. The hostile message itself isnt really needed for that

Madame Trousers Son

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Re: System Wishlist v3
« Reply #277 on: January 07, 2023, 08:37:05 PM »
Grendel's basically right. Yes, the message is there for OOC information purposes, sort of, but it's more a courtesy. Even the 10 second countdown after someone toggles hostile is a courtesy.

If someone toggles you hostile and attacks you the next microsecond before you could possibly have time to read the log, that is legitimate. Implicitly discourteous, but legitimate.

On the other hand, the problem of people metagaming getting hostiled and starting to defensively cast is pretty prevalent, and changing the colour of the warning to red to make it stand out more might reinforce this behaviour by validating the importance and exclusivity of the message. So this change could have a negative effect overall, especially since the more people metagame this, the more people are encouraged to ignore courtesy and toggle hostile microseconds before they attack.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2023, 08:41:07 PM by Madame Trousers Son »
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Grendel

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Re: System Wishlist v3
« Reply #278 on: January 07, 2023, 08:59:53 PM »
Grendel's basically right. Yes, the message is there for OOC information purposes, sort of, but it's more a courtesy. Even the 10 second countdown after someone toggles hostile is a courtesy.

If someone toggles you hostile and attacks you the next microsecond before you could possibly have time to read the log, that is legitimate. Implicitly discourteous, but legitimate.

On the other hand, the problem of people metagaming getting hostiled and starting to defensively cast is pretty prevalent, and changing the colour of the warning to red to make it stand out more might reinforce this behaviour by validating the importance and exclusivity of the message. So this change could have a negative effect overall, especially since the more people metagame this, the more people are encouraged to ignore courtesy and toggle hostile microseconds before they attack.

More or less I agree with the above, with exception to the view that it's discourteous to hostile and immediately attack; I simply view that as fair play for those wanting to limit metagaming as much as possible. If your character would have only a split second of reaction time before being run through by a sword, the same surprise holds true to the player. It's why when I bother to PvP, I hostile people, at minimum, hours before. Sometimes I'll make a regular routine of hostiling them every time I log in. But that's simply my viewpoint; everyone has their own.

MistJumper

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Re: System Wishlist v3
« Reply #279 on: January 09, 2023, 11:09:05 AM »
I will point out that not everyone enjoys PVP. I certainly am not a fan of it happening without RP, or even the consent of all those potentially involved. One thing I have found that the OOC message and timer do is to aid in a rather limited time to remove oneself from the potential of PVP. As for example in the case of AMPC in the Vallaki region heading indoors at night. The PVP question overall is it required? I've seen stated that PVP should be the last resort several times in posts on the forums, yet my suggestion seems to have inspired replies of "it's an OOC not IC message" I get that it is just that. I also say that the OOC messages about game mechanics are part of play and in fact help you as the player determine what your PC does, and how they/it would react. If I as a player can't see said message due to it's color in a sea of same colored nearly spammed messages about ac mechanics then it takes a bigger shift of gameplay on my end to have my PC react to it appropriately and I found I didn't enjoy the resulting dive to ensure I wasn't apart of a server rule break.

Overall I'd say the events that led to this probably wouldn't pass anyone's definition of great RP that lead to conflict. From my point of view there was no RP that led to it at all. However it did happen and future RP has resulted from it. PC life continues. I was asking for the change of message color because I believed it to be both low developer impact and fundamentally easier for every player to see said potential PVP, and adjust accordingly. If the color is changed, the 10 second run-off is unaffected.

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Re: System Wishlist v3
« Reply #280 on: January 09, 2023, 12:08:23 PM »
Is it possible to get confirmation dialog for the ferries? That way when we're zooming around barovia so that we don't accidentally go to the wrong place.
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Grendel

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Re: System Wishlist v3
« Reply #281 on: January 09, 2023, 07:18:15 PM »
I will point out that not everyone enjoys PVP. I certainly am not a fan of it happening without RP, or even the consent of all those potentially involved. One thing I have found that the OOC message and timer do is to aid in a rather limited time to remove oneself from the potential of PVP. As for example in the case of AMPC in the Vallaki region heading indoors at night. The PVP question overall is it required? I've seen stated that PVP should be the last resort several times in posts on the forums, yet my suggestion seems to have inspired replies of "it's an OOC not IC message" I get that it is just that. I also say that the OOC messages about game mechanics are part of play and in fact help you as the player determine what your PC does, and how they/it would react. If I as a player can't see said message due to it's color in a sea of same colored nearly spammed messages about ac mechanics then it takes a bigger shift of gameplay on my end to have my PC react to it appropriately and I found I didn't enjoy the resulting dive to ensure I wasn't apart of a server rule break.

Overall I'd say the events that led to this probably wouldn't pass anyone's definition of great RP that lead to conflict. From my point of view there was no RP that led to it at all. However it did happen and future RP has resulted from it. PC life continues. I was asking for the change of message color because I believed it to be both low developer impact and fundamentally easier for every player to see said potential PVP, and adjust accordingly. If the color is changed, the 10 second run-off is unaffected.

You shouldn't be responding to the hostile message at all, either IC or OOC. Your character has no way to know that they might be about to get attacked, unless it's a scenario such as having a heated argument with a thug threatening you, or running into a bandit, etc. Without delving into the particulars of your example, your malefactor requires a valid IC justification to attack you. A/MPCs are always considered as having valid cause, for this rule. If you believe your malefactor hasn't had valid IC justifications in attacking you, you should screenshot everything and report it.

Generally speaking if you are PvP averse and not facing off against an A/MPC, you should usually be offered recourse to defuse the situation. If a bandit is robbing you, that is handing over gold. If that is someone threatening to punch your teeth out for being insulting, that is apologising. Etc. Such recourse is not always in your own best interests.

Madame Trousers Son

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Re: System Wishlist v3
« Reply #282 on: January 09, 2023, 07:27:20 PM »
And the recourse against most A/MPCs is to scream and run away; they will usually allow that. :P
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Vonskurk

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Re: System Wishlist v3
« Reply #283 on: January 11, 2023, 07:10:50 AM »
Great work on the crafting system! And also the new notice system big props.

I don't know what's in future, but if I could make  request it would be something near Gemcutting/Jewlcraft?

Really enjopying crafting on the server.

MAB77

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Re: System Wishlist v3
« Reply #284 on: January 11, 2023, 10:51:09 AM »
Great work on the crafting system! And also the new notice system big props.

I don't know what's in future, but if I could make  request it would be something near Gemcutting/Jewlcraft?

Really enjopying crafting on the server.

As it happens, I do have the full plan ready for both gemcutting and jewelcrafting, but we're not going ahead with that at this time.
There are so much bonuses that can already be gained through crafted items, we'd have to nerf the rest of crafting system and of enchanting first to mitigate the power creep this would induce.
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MistJumper

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Re: System Wishlist v3
« Reply #285 on: January 12, 2023, 11:44:40 AM »
A paint item that would spawn in the graffiti placeables in the CEP to place on walls. This item would function like the carpenters box, yet would only put writing or pictures on a wall like surface.

InMyDarkestHours

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Re: System Wishlist v3
« Reply #286 on: January 12, 2023, 10:04:23 PM »
The ability to toggle on/off the triggering of emote animations through text. e.g. [falls], [prays] via the rest menu.

A little annoying having my character flop down like a fish just because my emote included "fall" which had nothing to do with the character falling over.

DM Spectre

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Re: System Wishlist v3
« Reply #287 on: January 12, 2023, 10:17:59 PM »
The ability to toggle on/off the triggering of emote animations through text. e.g. [falls], [prays] via the rest menu.

A little annoying having my character flop down like a fish just because my emote included "fall" which had nothing to do with the character falling over.

I've removed "fall" from my NwN vocabulary. But "sleep" has gotten me a few times lately... so embarassing.

+1

Also, I know many people have converted to using "quotes" around spoken text and leave their emotes unadorned like you would read in a novel. That also solves the problem.

Grendel

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Re: System Wishlist v3
« Reply #288 on: January 12, 2023, 10:20:23 PM »
The ability to toggle on/off the triggering of emote animations through text. e.g. [falls], [prays] via the rest menu.

A little annoying having my character flop down like a fish just because my emote included "fall" which had nothing to do with the character falling over.

Consider using other characters than square brackets for emoting. They're the only character that determines whether automatic emotes are played; asterisks, lesser than/greater than signs, and rounded brackets are all viable alternatives.

InMyDarkestHours

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Re: System Wishlist v3
« Reply #289 on: January 13, 2023, 12:24:34 AM »
This is the System Wishlist thread. The idea of "just do something else" has already been considered.

Ask a hundred people to change their roleplay style or terminology to avoid an annoyance,

Or,

One person to develop a technical, flexible solution so that users don't have to skirt around it.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2023, 12:26:28 AM by InMyDarkestHours »

MAB77

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Re: System Wishlist v3
« Reply #290 on: January 13, 2023, 01:29:39 AM »
No one is asking anyone to change their RP, but you have to understand that using square brackets is in itself the toggle to tell the system that you purposefully wish to activate a command. We're not adding a toggle to the toggle just so that a single text character may be used for a different purpose. Adapting to use a different character is the right solution.
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MAB

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InMyDarkestHours

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Re: System Wishlist v3
« Reply #291 on: January 13, 2023, 02:20:53 AM »
No one is asking anyone to change their RP, but you have to understand that using square brackets is in itself the toggle to tell the system that you purposefully wish to activate a command. We're not adding a toggle to the toggle just so that a single text character may be used for a different purpose. Adapting to use a different character is the right solution.

This is incorrect and it does appear you have somewhat contradicted yourself: You claim no one is asking to change their RP, yet the suggestions presented against what I considered an issue (that could be easily resolved with a variable set and a check for it on chat), are to change what words/language/RP style used in order to avoid activating an emote, including your suggestion to use a non-standard emote character.

Surely you're not going to debate that most people don't use [square brackets] to emote their character. It's not solely a toggle for emotes; this has been the standard on this server for over a decade and this is the reason I am asking for additional QoL that really shouldn't receive pushback.

cheese tornado

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Re: System Wishlist v3
« Reply #292 on: January 13, 2023, 02:23:40 AM »
Would like a system that gave some feedback to when placing rental placeables, for example: "You have raised placeable #420 along axis y by 1.0, axis x by 0.0 and axis z by 0.0"

I understand this would be a bit of chat box spam but it would be localized to the individual and help interior decorators track modifications to the axis in the logs.

Not sure if this should go in feedback or suggestion but it kind of overlaps.

Zyemeth

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Re: System Wishlist v3
« Reply #293 on: January 13, 2023, 02:27:12 AM »
The ability to toggle on/off the triggering of emote animations through text. e.g. [falls], [prays] via the rest menu.

A little annoying having my character flop down like a fish just because my emote included "fall" which had nothing to do with the character falling over.

+1 to this. If the trigger words for emotes were more carefully selected it wouldn't be so bad but it does far more often detract than it does add to a scene's immersion. Having a way to remove the feature, for what is considered the standard and correct way to portray your character's actions, would be preferred.

MAB77

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Re: System Wishlist v3
« Reply #294 on: January 13, 2023, 03:18:10 AM »
This is incorrect and it does appear you have somewhat contradicted yourself: You claim no one is asking to change their RP, yet the suggestions presented against what I considered an issue (that could be easily resolved with a variable set and a check for it on chat), are to change what words/language/RP style used in order to avoid activating an emote, including your suggestion to use a non-standard emote character.

Surely you're not going to debate that most people don't use [square brackets] to emote their character. It's not solely a toggle for emotes; this has been the standard on this server for over a decade and this is the reason I am asking for additional QoL that really shouldn't receive pushback.

There is no contradiction, it is just NOT a roleplay issue.
Are you seriously telling me that [bowing down] or (bowing down) or "bowing down" have different roleplay meanings altogether other than the act of bowing down?
Of course not. How you type down things doesn't change the roleplay, it's just a matter of preference on how you'd like to write down things.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that the proposal itself isn't a fair one, but it isn't a quality of life issue either. A quality of life improvement offers a solution to an issue that affect gameplay and cannot be avoided. For instance, using key words in brackets to call a particular emote or command as part of your RP description over having to type @emote ID 43 separately and hoping you remembered the code ID right, that is a quality of life improvement. The work done to reduce the grind on crafting, that is a quality of life improvement. The crafting bags allowing to quickly pick up mined ore, thus saving a massive amount of time, that is a quality of life improvement.

Of course I'm not disputing the fact that people use brackets, I use them myself, and also occasionaly fall by mistake. But I don't HAVE to use them, I can just as quickly use a different character without losing time nor impacting gameplay negatively. The solution is already there.

Note too that I am not getting into the technical ramifications of what you are asking. There is nothing simple with this game engine, and that particular script calls upon server commands. Tempering with it may induce much bigger problems (provided that section is even accessible to begin with). It is not worth the risk to change a system that actually works well, and for which an easy work around is already available for its minor quirk.
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MAB

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DM Spectre

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Re: System Wishlist v3
« Reply #295 on: January 13, 2023, 07:37:08 AM »
When I started playing here in 2017-18 whatever it was, I used *emotes* because the server I was on favored the asterisk. Here is brackets. I wanted to make that change so my emotes would be more visual. I am considering moving away from that. Little effort is required on the player part to make it happen. Much more might be involved in the dev side. If it's an easy fix, go for it. I'm an for it. If it's cumbersome, then we as players can adjust easily.

strangerinthealps

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Re: System Wishlist v3
« Reply #296 on: January 13, 2023, 12:04:28 PM »
Where can I find a list of [bracket commands]?

InMyDarkestHours

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Re: System Wishlist v3
« Reply #297 on: January 13, 2023, 02:42:16 PM »
...

...

I'm not going to further push further on it or argue definitions regardless of my views, this thread isn't the place for it. No one wants to read that and it is of course yours/the Dev team's call to do or not do anything.

Can we just simply change the trigger word for that emote from "falls" to "fallsover" / "fallsdown"? That's really my main point of contention, I don't care about "bows down" or many of the others.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2023, 02:45:46 PM by InMyDarkestHours »

Maffa

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Re: System Wishlist v3
« Reply #298 on: January 13, 2023, 03:59:35 PM »
ther eis merit in that

there are words that are so common that trigger an emote 90% at the wrong time

shoot and fall are the main culprits that come to mind
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Siobhan

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Re: System Wishlist v3
« Reply #299 on: January 13, 2023, 04:14:16 PM »
So, so SO many times, I have done [Her expression falls] and then go poof, flat on my face. Very embarassing, especially if it was emoted in a whisper.

I'd love for these emote commands to be obscure phrasing - like [emotefall], or some other words that won't come up in RP.

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