Author Topic: Vallaki At Night: What is the goal?  (Read 2108 times)

BraveSirRobin

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Vallaki At Night: What is the goal?
« on: July 03, 2021, 08:37:37 PM »
It's been years since I've regularly roleplayed in Barovia, and I have to say the recent experiences with NCE there gave me both a new appreciation for Barovia in general; But also some questions, and mild disappointment. I have a few questions, honestly, and a few suggestions.

Vallaki, despite being not of terrible merit in the campaign setting, is a sprawling cityscape that in-module is two areas larger than the Capital of Dementlieu: Port-à-Lucine. It is the central base of player activity in Barovia, and is intended to be the only guard-supported area of the domain. But why is it, that when you visit Vallaki, the streets are flooded with Wererat spawns at night? It seems counter-intuitive to roleplaying in Vallaki for any period of time, despite the disproportionate space it takes up, and precedent set by the behavior of the environment at other Barovian settlements.

Allow me to make my point this way: When you visit...

     - Border Outpost Zeklos
     - Wachter Estate
     - Outpost Krezk
     - Village of Barovia
     - Midway Haven
     - Village of Barovia (Where there's literally wailing in the background)
     - Krofburg, and Krofburg Tent City

You see that it not only do the guards remain outdoors at night, but they lock their gates and permit travellers to come through if they hurry when they do so. It makes the areas attractive for night-time roleplay, with things to do in the streets and a sense of mild security given from the walls, and guard NPCs present. However, when you are in Vallaki? The most roleplay heavy area of the server, you find that it the streets are overrun with Wererats, and that it the guard force there is forced to roleplay in shifts with the daylight, or sit around on the city walls.

However, when you go into the Outskirts, short of a player dragging Werewolf spawns over in the middle of the night, you are almost guaranteed safety. There are laws aiming to keep shops, merchants, and activity indoors, and even some discussions of reducing roleplay xp outside in the Outskirts at night.

... But I have a radical proposal for you.

Kill the night spawns in Vallaki, and instead, increase the frequency of lethal spawns in the Outskirts region that roam the walls at night and entice people to go behind the safety of the walls of the city. It gives Guards the chance to be out on the walls, in the streets, and controlled patrols at night, without breaking the narrative of the setting. People already sometimes just go to Zeklos, in such circumstances. There's no other settlement on the entire server that just wholly and completely locks its doors at night and then stuffs all of its guards indoors.

It solves the Outsmirks problem, by far and wide. Who would want to be out there with the wolves, when you can be in the city's walls? Why are the city's walls less safe than sitting outside of an Inn at 2 AM? You tell me.

Let the debate unfold.

mooner

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Re: Vallaki At Night: What is the goal?
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2021, 09:00:40 PM »
i think swapping the focus of the spawns from the city to the outskirts could be a good thing, actually. the concern is only that new players spawn in the outskirts, and while there is always a low chance of werewolves attacking the outskirts or the camp - they at least have a chance. maybe if there was a sewer entrance in the vistani camp or something along those lines?

i think the argumentation is pretty solid, especially when you compare it with other barovian settlements.

so far the only counter argument i can think of is that this would encourage barovian players (well, garda in particular - most of the others do it anyway) to be outside during the night. maybe if there was still some incentive to be inside, and i suppose one that didn't rely on MPCs. perhaps if the rentals were open during the night and saw more activity, there'd be demand for guards to stay inside and guard those.

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Re: Vallaki At Night: What is the goal?
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2021, 09:00:46 PM »
I like it. Unless there is a canonical reason for the wererat spawn in Vallaki, but even then, it could perhaps be lowered or something?

I have always found it interesting that the outskirts are always so populated at night. I get it there are people who lurk out there for the xp that they can get from the werewolves that sometimes wander over, and then there is the issue of higher levels which can easily destroy the spawn and then promote that sort of safety. I would love to see more reasons to spend in Vallaki, and I do think that the wererat spawn may be partly to blame, but it's probably one of many things.

But by the same token the wererat problem can be a source of rp. People could hire others to keep the streets clear at night, or perhaps the spawn could be adjusted to make it possible for the garda to patrol at night and stand a chance against them?
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distilled1

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Re: Vallaki At Night: What is the goal?
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2021, 09:09:26 PM »
I agree with the notion that characters should feel safer inside a large city than in its outskirts.

Also, encouraging more players to remain in urban street areas, rather than outskirt areas, is more realistic and gives more opportunities for cool night-time petty theivery roleplay via the Urban Stealth feat. So being out in the streets at night would still feel unsafe. But you'd be fearing other players sneaking up on you rather than NPC were rats.
Especially if Urban Stealth got a buff haha. That'd be wild.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2021, 09:11:56 PM by distilled1 »

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Re: Vallaki At Night: What is the goal?
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2021, 09:15:02 PM »
I like it. Unless there is a canonical reason for the wererat spawn in Vallaki, but even then, it could perhaps be lowered or something?

I have always found it interesting that the outskirts are always so populated at night. I get it there are people who lurk out there for the xp that they can get from the werewolves that sometimes wander over, and then there is the issue of higher levels which can easily destroy the spawn and then promote that sort of safety. I would love to see more reasons to spend in Vallaki, and I do think that the wererat spawn may be partly to blame, but it's probably one of many things.

But by the same token the wererat problem can be a source of rp. People could hire others to keep the streets clear at night, or perhaps the spawn could be adjusted to make it possible for the garda to patrol at night and stand a chance against them?

Its not really canon. Vallaki doesn't have a rat problem, certainly not one that makes it rival Richemulot. It is a small town in Barovia after all.


BraveSirRobin

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Re: Vallaki At Night: What is the goal?
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2021, 09:27:58 PM »
I find it weird. There's a literal WERERAT DUNGEON in Village of Barovia, but you can walk around there at night in relative peace; Vallaki's interior should be safe. Or safe-er. I would settle for thugs, even, in dark alleys or something to keep people on their toes in like, the corners of the residential district or the back-alleys of the warehouse district, or the back-alleys of the slums. But one of the major reasons I, personally, during NCE remained near the Lady's Rest Inn and the Outskirts, is that it getting stuck in the city is a roleplaying death sentence.

You can't open the gates, like you can elsewhere. You feel less safe in the city, than you do in the outskirts due to stealthed wererats that will ambush you. There's no reason to be there, as it does not make you feel safer, it is more violent, and all the stores are closed, and you have to go through a sewer well system to escape. The Garda can't even interact with you inside the city, from the walls, and have no incentive to be in the city online at dusk except for Garda Barracks roleplay.

I have seen more roleplay in Krofburg and Zeklos because there is a safety wtihin the walls that makes you fear what is outside of it. Vallaki is paradoxically the opposite.

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Re: Vallaki At Night: What is the goal?
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2021, 09:32:40 PM »
I think it's fine.

Hathor

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Re: Vallaki At Night: What is the goal?
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2021, 09:35:19 PM »
I like this idea and I feel it's sorely needed. It's long since been completely immersion-breaking to see the outskirts treated like the MC, a perfectly safe place to hang out all night. It will never change unless the spawns and area design changes, it's the natural place for even high levels to park.

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Re: Vallaki At Night: What is the goal?
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2021, 09:36:16 PM »

I think it important to explain each point in turn so bear with me here

Quote
Vallaki, despite being not of terrible merit in the campaign setting, is a sprawling cityscape that in-module is two areas larger than the Capital of Dementlieu: Port-à-Lucine. It is the central base of player activity in Barovia, and is intended to be the only guard-supported area of the domain. But why is it, that when you visit Vallaki, the streets are flooded with Wererat spawns at night? It seems counter-intuitive to roleplaying in Vallaki for any period of time, despite the disproportionate space it takes up, and precedent set by the behavior of the environment at other Barovian settlements.

It is because it's a city scape that it works so well for a Wererat population who have taken to creating themselves a den beneath the city within the sewers. Wererat populations will always be large and dense, though not as dense as Richemulot obviously. Because Vallaki has a sewer system this problem is rampant.

Quote
  - Border Outpost Zeklos
     - Wachter Estate
     - Outpost Krezk
     - Village of Barovia
     - Midway Haven
     - Village of Barovia (Where there's literally wailing in the background)
     - Krofburg, and Krofburg Tent City

All of these areas in fact do not have sewer networks that travel through them which is a favoured place for a Wererat to be. It's entirely feasible that a Wererat population settled within Vallaki for this exact reason.  Furthermore the Garda have the ability to traverse the entire city almost without having to deal with the Wererats provided they stay on the walls which is how they navigate around. All the barovian npcs get inside as soon as night falls and they don't leave it.


Quote
Kill the night spawns in Vallaki, and instead, increase the frequency of lethal spawns in the Outskirts region that roam the walls at night and entice people to go behind the safety of the walls of the city. It gives Guards the chance to be out on the walls, in the streets, and controlled patrols at night, without breaking the narrative of the setting. People already sometimes just go to Zeklos, in such circumstances. There's no other settlement on the entire server that just wholly and completely locks its doors at night and then stuffs all of its guards indoors.

It solves the Outsmirks problem, by far and wide. Who would want to be out there with the wolves, when you can be in the city's walls? Why are the city's walls less safe than sitting outside of an Inn at 2 AM? You tell me.

While I don't mind the idea in theory, time and error has proven that if spawns are thrown at the outskirts, it just entices people to lurk outside and kill them, either hoping for an event to come of it or because they believe they're doing a good turn, which Icly they are. Furthermore if we go by an IC president, if the Wererats and Wolves wished, they'd just tear into the Inn and slaughter everyone. The sanctuary might be the only ic safe haven from any and all denizens of the night purely because of how solid it's foundations are and the guardians within it. That being said, perhaps if folk get used to a near constant of monstrous npcs around the Outskirts it might prompt players inside, who's to say?

Quote
I like it. Unless there is a canonical reason for the wererat spawn in Vallaki, but even then, it could perhaps be lowered or something?

I have always found it interesting that the outskirts are always so populated at night. I get it there are people who lurk out there for the xp that they can get from the werewolves that sometimes wander over, and then there is the issue of higher levels which can easily destroy the spawn and then promote that sort of safety. I would love to see more reasons to spend in Vallaki, and I do think that the wererat spawn may be partly to blame, but it's probably one of many things.

But by the same token the wererat problem can be a source of rp. People could hire others to keep the streets clear at night, or perhaps the spawn could be adjusted to make it possible for the garda to patrol at night and stand a chance against them?

As I mentioned above with BSR, this is likely to increase the watch of the high levels v the night spawn and make the outskirts swell in number. People can and have hired folk in the past to purge the city of Wererats and I'd like to say it's a fairly common thing to see when you pop outside at night.


BraveSirRobin

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Re: Vallaki At Night: What is the goal?
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2021, 10:17:20 PM »

I think it important to explain each point in turn so bear with me here

Quote
Vallaki, despite being not of terrible merit in the campaign setting, is a sprawling cityscape that in-module is two areas larger than the Capital of Dementlieu: Port-à-Lucine. It is the central base of player activity in Barovia, and is intended to be the only guard-supported area of the domain. But why is it, that when you visit Vallaki, the streets are flooded with Wererat spawns at night? It seems counter-intuitive to roleplaying in Vallaki for any period of time, despite the disproportionate space it takes up, and precedent set by the behavior of the environment at other Barovian settlements.

It is because it's a city scape that it works so well for a Wererat population who have taken to creating themselves a den beneath the city within the sewers. Wererat populations will always be large and dense, though not as dense as Richemulot obviously. Because Vallaki has a sewer system this problem is rampant.

Quote
  - Border Outpost Zeklos
     - Wachter Estate
     - Outpost Krezk
     - Village of Barovia
     - Midway Haven
     - Village of Barovia (Where there's literally wailing in the background)
     - Krofburg, and Krofburg Tent City

All of these areas in fact do not have sewer networks that travel through them which is a favoured place for a Wererat to be. It's entirely feasible that a Wererat population settled within Vallaki for this exact reason.  Furthermore the Garda have the ability to traverse the entire city almost without having to deal with the Wererats provided they stay on the walls which is how they navigate around. All the barovian npcs get inside as soon as night falls and they don't leave it.


Quote
Kill the night spawns in Vallaki, and instead, increase the frequency of lethal spawns in the Outskirts region that roam the walls at night and entice people to go behind the safety of the walls of the city. It gives Guards the chance to be out on the walls, in the streets, and controlled patrols at night, without breaking the narrative of the setting. People already sometimes just go to Zeklos, in such circumstances. There's no other settlement on the entire server that just wholly and completely locks its doors at night and then stuffs all of its guards indoors.

It solves the Outsmirks problem, by far and wide. Who would want to be out there with the wolves, when you can be in the city's walls? Why are the city's walls less safe than sitting outside of an Inn at 2 AM? You tell me.

While I don't mind the idea in theory, time and error has proven that if spawns are thrown at the outskirts, it just entices people to lurk outside and kill them, either hoping for an event to come of it or because they believe they're doing a good turn, which Icly they are. Furthermore if we go by an IC president, if the Wererats and Wolves wished, they'd just tear into the Inn and slaughter everyone. The sanctuary might be the only ic safe haven from any and all denizens of the night purely because of how solid it's foundations are and the guardians within it. That being said, perhaps if folk get used to a near constant of monstrous npcs around the Outskirts it might prompt players inside, who's to say?

Quote
I like it. Unless there is a canonical reason for the wererat spawn in Vallaki, but even then, it could perhaps be lowered or something?

I have always found it interesting that the outskirts are always so populated at night. I get it there are people who lurk out there for the xp that they can get from the werewolves that sometimes wander over, and then there is the issue of higher levels which can easily destroy the spawn and then promote that sort of safety. I would love to see more reasons to spend in Vallaki, and I do think that the wererat spawn may be partly to blame, but it's probably one of many things.

But by the same token the wererat problem can be a source of rp. People could hire others to keep the streets clear at night, or perhaps the spawn could be adjusted to make it possible for the garda to patrol at night and stand a chance against them?

As I mentioned above with BSR, this is likely to increase the watch of the high levels v the night spawn and make the outskirts swell in number. People can and have hired folk in the past to purge the city of Wererats and I'd like to say it's a fairly common thing to see when you pop outside at night.

The Village of Barovia has an entire warren with an underground network. It wouldn't be unreasonable to suspect that it members of the society there become infected, and walk in the night to nom nom, if the explanation for Vallaki is anything but a rationalization of a non-canonical design decision.

.. And I'll have to disagree on the Outskirts. If people thought killing random, nuisance spawns, you'd see them trolling along the Wachter Roads, in the City, or anywhere else where the Werewolves spawn. People get excited when spawns appear in the Outskirts because they aren't supposed to be there naturally. That means either a PC dragged them, or a DM might bless them with an event.

If they realize it's just going to become a dangerous tax, and low levels are going to get snuck up on and killed suddenly by spawns, they will stop hanging out there. On the other hand, I find Vallaki to be a ridiculous paradox. I think it honestly needs to be adjusted and inverted; It's clear the Dev team doesn't like Outskirts lingering. If you shift the incentive towards the city at night, rather than the outskirts, you kill any reason to be there. Doubly so if you set night spawns to creep through the area in stealth mode like they do inside of Vallaki. At worst, you'll find groups wandering off to Zeklos because they enjoy being able to do their overnight crafting there and wandering around with a little more immersion and freedom.

The current design just suppresses roleplay. I've heard it from Garda players who find the night cycle of a Garda on top of all of their other restrictions to be stifling; There's a reason most Garda make it six months at best, when there are multi-year Gendarmes out there, and repeat Gendarme players. A lot of the Gendarme players I have worked with who have been Garda players in the past have expressed that particular gripe with me; They'd rather be Krofburg Milita, Wachter Militia. Anywhere, but Vallaki, because it's unwelcoming as a roleplay environment unless you're willing to leave the city for some paradoxical reason to go hang out in the Lady's Rest, or more accurately, infront of it, because there is no reason to be inside of the city. Day or night.

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Re: Vallaki At Night: What is the goal?
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2021, 10:28:25 PM »
Outskirts being safe is a necessary evil. It’s the place new players first arrive in and I doubt anyone would like to be killed right when they start playing. Also you want new players to meet people quickly. If they have to venture fo hours to find someone (presuming they weren’t killed before) is a surefire way to chase them off.

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Re: Vallaki At Night: What is the goal?
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2021, 10:33:49 PM »
Outskirts being safe is a necessary evil. It’s the place new players first arrive in and I doubt anyone would like to be killed right when they start playing. Also you want new players to meet people quickly. If they have to venture fo hours to find someone (presuming they weren’t killed before) is a surefire way to chase them off.

When I first started on this server, I was deathly afraid of the night. I thought every time I went into the Outskirts, I'd die; So I spent my first night with the Vistani, waiting until morning. You could always ensure there's a prompt or signal at the Vistani Camp to wait until dawn before trudging onwards -- Or find a different spawn point and mix things up. There are places at low-level that I am genuinely concerned as a player going to, rather than needing to artificially create that concern for my character. Travelling anywhere in Wachter Lands at night is asking for trouble. Travelling to Mist Camp at night is dangerous, if you do not have magic to facilitate it and know the path by heart. Travelling Vallaki and stopping to breathe at night is asking for trouble. But the outskirts aren't... Really that. The trouble you get, is they are abused as they are now, for that very reason.

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Re: Vallaki At Night: What is the goal?
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2021, 10:41:02 PM »
I remember when having a Silver guilded weapon was like a godsend!!! finally able to fight werewolves without magic weapon!!! while I often went against the grain when i joined gods was the night really rough. MPCs out and about. werewolves.... evil groups.

In truth i do feel that some of the difficulty/ fear is reduced with some of the many changes that happened... I truely wish MPCs didn't have a timer, I both get why but at the same time dislike it.  DMs can still spawn things at night that can roll up and tear you a new one... but not many due that

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Re: Vallaki At Night: What is the goal?
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2021, 10:42:38 PM »
While I agree with a lot of the posts and ideas hear ultimatly EO is right. It has to be this way to give new players a chance if they are corpsed just because they spawned at night that more than likely will make them quit and never come back. In the end. I do think that there should be spots in the city where there are no night spawns so people can hang out and RP. Just like the Terraces in Lucine. But the Outskirts as they are now I feel are fine and fill the purpose well. Even if that Purpose is slightly metagamed.
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BraveSirRobin

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Re: Vallaki At Night: What is the goal?
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2021, 10:50:43 PM »
I just think the dynamic needs to be reconsidered. It has been here for over a decade, almost two, but it is a mechanic that is inherently both discouraging lingering behind Vallaki's walls, and encouraging loitering in the exterior of the Outskirts. It would be an improvement if the night spawns in Vallaki represented basic spawns; Like level 1 or 2 muggers that it low-levels could survive encountering. Even though the city isn't 100% safe at night, it's not risking werewolves being dragged in, and it somehow incentivizes people to roleplay in the city, or be more open to it. It would also allow Garda to do night-time patrols and freely move from the Citadel, Guardhouse, or Wall/Gates to provide more roleplay opportunities.

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Re: Vallaki At Night: What is the goal?
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2021, 11:17:42 PM »
If you linger behind Vallaki's walls, you should go to either an inn or the Sanctuary where it is safe. Keep in mind that your experience with the outskirts initiallly is different to another players. It's important that the Outskirts remain a "safe zone" for new players to experience and understand their world. Adding in a sign that denotes the dangers won't work as well as you might think. There are already plenty of players that don't read the initial signs in the Character Creation zone for instance.

I remember when having a Silver guilded weapon was like a godsend!!! finally able to fight werewolves without magic weapon!!! while I often went against the grain when i joined gods was the night really rough. MPCs out and about. werewolves.... evil groups.

In truth i do feel that some of the difficulty/ fear is reduced with some of the many changes that happened... I truely wish MPCs didn't have a timer, I both get why but at the same time dislike it.  DMs can still spawn things at night that can roll up and tear you a new one... but not many due that

The DMs don't like to do this often because it encourages players to come out more because they sense a possible plot or event that they can get involved in. It's counter productive to the sense of making the outskirts exterior more populated when we want it less so.

While I agree with a lot of the posts and ideas hear ultimatly EO is right. It has to be this way to give new players a chance if they are corpsed just because they spawned at night that more than likely will make them quit and never come back. In the end. I do think that there should be spots in the city where there are no night spawns so people can hang out and RP. Just like the Terraces in Lucine. But the Outskirts as they are now I feel are fine and fill the purpose well. Even if that Purpose is slightly metagamed.

Vallaki is not Port'a'Lucine however. It's a different style, a different theme involved. Barovia is a land of monsters and the fear of the night is everywhere, even in a fortified city like Vallaki. There's a reason Garda don't roam the streets at night and that's to do with the monsters that lurk around it. Barovians stay inside for a reason, it's not the same for instance with the nobles and gendarme etc within Port'a'Lucine where the roleplay is all around the cityscape and the theme is surrouding secrets and lies (A very different theme to that of Barovia as I mentioned) TLDR, different domains have different set ups.

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Re: Vallaki At Night: What is the goal?
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2021, 11:40:50 PM »
Quote
Vallaki is not Port'a'Lucine however. It's a different style, a different theme involved. Barovia is a land of monsters and the fear of the night is everywhere, even in a fortified city like Vallaki. There's a reason Garda don't roam the streets at night and that's to do with the monsters that lurk around it. Barovians stay inside for a reason, it's not the same for instance with the nobles and gendarme etc within Port'a'Lucine where the roleplay is all around the cityscape and the theme is surrouding secrets and lies (A very different theme to that of Barovia as I mentioned) TLDR, different domains have different set ups.

This is a trend that exists only in Vallaki. Either you're going to need to replicate it elsewhere, or concede that it this is not a common theme for Barovia. It is the only settlement which has this theme. Even Village of Barovia is more peaceful at night than Vallaki.

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Re: Vallaki At Night: What is the goal?
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2021, 12:24:43 AM »
Quote
Vallaki is not Port'a'Lucine however. It's a different style, a different theme involved. Barovia is a land of monsters and the fear of the night is everywhere, even in a fortified city like Vallaki. There's a reason Garda don't roam the streets at night and that's to do with the monsters that lurk around it. Barovians stay inside for a reason, it's not the same for instance with the nobles and gendarme etc within Port'a'Lucine where the roleplay is all around the cityscape and the theme is surrouding secrets and lies (A very different theme to that of Barovia as I mentioned) TLDR, different domains have different set ups.

This is a trend that exists only in Vallaki. Either you're going to need to replicate it elsewhere, or concede that it this is not a common theme for Barovia. It is the only settlement which has this theme. Even Village of Barovia is more peaceful at night than Vallaki.

It's not a trend that only exists in Vallaki though. I already explained why Vallaki has the dangers it has in comparison to the relatively small villages. Wachter isn't used anymore so there is no reason to do anything to it at this current time, VoB is "The devil's playground", it barely has any life left in it is the generable jist. Barovia as a theme is the land of monsters of the night. It doesn't require replication unless we had say, Zeidenburg or Teufeldorf in the module, which we do not

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Re: Vallaki At Night: What is the goal?
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2021, 02:13:49 AM »
I'm in total agreement with the original point that the sense of fear and general anxiety in Ravenloft and Barovia especially has been lost in the outskirts which has become very high magic/high fantasy of late and not the gothic horror as intended.  However, I also think EO is spot on, it's a necessary evil because it's the entry for new players and requires it to remain a hub for people to get by.  Maybe there's something else that can be done that satisfies both ends?  There is the temple and the inn to hide out in after all, just my opinion but it would be nice to have something keep people afraid and indoors, while at the same time not trampling all over new PCs trying to get adjusted.  Just not sure what that looks like

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Re: Vallaki At Night: What is the goal?
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2021, 02:26:59 AM »
Bottom line, it's the players responsibility to keep the setting scary. If people are outside at night waving magic of the highest tier, then it's the community itself that needs to look at that and consider if that's the right look for the setting.

Mailbox-2100

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Re: Vallaki At Night: What is the goal?
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2021, 02:48:10 AM »
 The meta is set by the reality of existing factors. Nighttime often being a parade is the result of there being no actual reason to go inside at night. People can RP it being so terrible all they want, but if no precedent is actually ever realized, its a farce, through and through.

 What I'd pay a subscription fee for: is just completely variable spawns on PotM. I hate knowing precisely how to handle every area and dungeon. The mystique is gone, and most things are all but an exact science. I think adding randomness to night spawns in particular is a GREAT start. Make it so that there's a chance nothing can happen, or rarer chances of terrible things spawning.

 As for the 'necessary evil' portion.. that can be handled in a number of ways, really. There can be a Vistani guard who 'barks' (like certain vendors in Har Akir)- or has some other tell for when monsters are nearby, in the Outskirts, particularly. So new players would be wise to keep to the Vistani camp until morning. Or maybe add some connecting 'safe' route from the Camp to some place nearby that they can 'scout' out the Outskirts without risking immediate death from a nightspawn, and adds some excitement for the newer players to risk heading for the temple or otherwise.

 I think, overall, creating a healthy culture of horror and danger should begin from the first leg of any adventurer to the Core. Again, there's a number of ways to communicate what they should and shouldn't do, and it can lend to fantastic RP. I think it outweighs the possibility of 'scaring off' new players. Have some confidence to be ballsy, like Arnold smoking his cigars. It worked for Dark Souls and a number of titles. The atmosphere is stale from a PVE perspective (which is a majority of a player's conflict on PotM), and I've seen what amazing things you Devs can do.

 Woo me again, with your script and wit! Or not. I'm around.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2021, 02:51:06 AM by Mailbox-2100 »

Iolantir

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Re: Vallaki At Night: What is the goal?
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2021, 02:51:51 AM »
There was once a suggestion to increase RP XP for indoor areas at night. I don’t think that’s a bad idea.

Clausawks

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Re: Vallaki At Night: What is the goal?
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2021, 02:53:31 AM »
Having been playing a AMPC more time than I spend on my main RP character. I can attest to say, there are very few times I try to mess with the Outskirts. I personally, even outside of interacting with such would like to see it stick to horror-theme of the night. People die, it happens. If you wanted a Safe Zone, perhaps the Vistani Camp nearby to the Outskirts should have or act as such? after all, it is the /first/ and /foremost/ place where new players spawn in from.

Perhaps that agenda should be shifted to such a zone. I am unsure. Just my two cents coming from the other side of the fence lately, I do think the recent NCE gave a lot of that 'spark' back to what was true fright. That is a setting that needs to be maintained, safe or not.  When you get to a certain point in Barovia, equipped and ready? there is not much in the way of fear to the many roving were-wolf mobs that rove around Barovia. Right now, only the Full Moon period amps up those mobs, otherwise, they are very much workable with a party carrying magic weapon.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2021, 03:06:12 AM by GameSpy »

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Re: Vallaki At Night: What is the goal?
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2021, 03:01:19 AM »
Vallaki is a big city that presents many wonderful setpieces for roleplay, indoors and out. I've always found it a crying shame that those are barely ever used like a city should because everyone is camping it rough in the outskirts and then the rats make the night time unviable for a large percentage of those already few in number doing things behind the gates. Much as my thoughts on VoB - developers and designers gave us a lot of tools and options, not being able to use them is just a waste. The rat population build up mechanic is neat but I would sacrifice it any day if it meant we could turn Valaki into the Barovian hub, from its outskirts.

ObsidianOrb

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Re: Vallaki At Night: What is the goal?
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2021, 01:01:30 PM »
I would like to see a dangerous city, and a dangerous outskirts to be honest.